Hi all:

It's been some time since I have posted here, so most of you probably don't know me. But I have a question for you as students. If you could get reliable academic advice from a professional advisor on-line, even if that resource were outside of NC State, would you use it? Would you be willing to pay a small fee for the service or a cheap subscription fee after a free trial period? This may be a harder question for you all at State since you already have your own virtual advising center and many advisors in the colleges are available by email, phone and chat. Still, think about your needs and perhaps those of your friends at other schools who don't have those kinds of services.

On TWW, you can get good peer advice, but not always advice from a professional advisor. I am curious about any needs you or your friends at other schools might have and if an online advising service would be useful to you. This would be in addition to the help you get from your own college.

I ask this question because given current budget cuts across many colleges and universities, academic advising services have been cut or are at risk for being cut. I am trying to find a way to fill the gap so that students do not suffer.

Thanks for your thoughts.

5/12/2009 11:38:45 AM

not to be a smart-ass, but what is a "professional advisor" and why would i trust you for advice?

5/12/2009 11:43:47 AM

Good points. Not smart ass at all. I need to hear people's concerns. A professional advisor is one who has a background in student development and is or has 100% of his or her time devoted to working with students (as opposed to faculty advisors who have their time split across teaching, research and service- and advising usually falls into the service category). I have over 20 years of experience in this area, but you are right, credentials would need to be established and published up front. In addition, backing from educational foundations or local colleges and universities might be helpful. It is why I would also offer free advice at the start so that people could judge the quality of what they are receiving for themselves. Not to brag, but usually once students (or parents or faculty), see the quality of the advising I provide they usually come back for more help over time.

Additionally, I think this service would not work in place of a student's college advisor, rather it would provide an additional source of information, or a second opinion in terms of the matter at hand. Sometimes more than one perspective can be very helpful. And/or, it could provide easy answers to everyday questions, much like what you see on TWW and then point people to be the best resources on their campus for the most difficult questions. Part of the issue at large universities or underfunded ones is getting information quickly, easily and finding the best person to address your situation quickly.

keep the comments and thoughts coming. Thanks!

5/12/2009 12:07:33 PM

If it were you, priceless, but that is because I know and trust you.

I would have a hard time believing someone who I was meeting for the first time, and wasn't directly affiliated with my university, would have more information than someone working at my university.

5/12/2009 2:57:42 PM

^ that would be my issue as well.

There have only been 1-2 things for which I've really NEEDED an advisor. The only reason he was able to help me in each case was because he had extensive knowledge of my program, my situation, and knew the people who could help. I can't imagine someone outside the department being able to help me in those situations, let alone outside the university.

And I certainly wouldn't pay for it. What would students be paying for exactly? And why isn't it covered by the tuition and fees? If advisors are being paid with ETF money and their advising hours get cut back, that money should (read as "is supposed to") come out of their salaries and go toward something that actually benefits students.

That being said, I don't really know what it is that advisors deal with the most. Maybe there are a lot of little things they do day to day that anyone (knowldgable of the university) would be able to help with. I just never really needed my adivsor's help with much.

Another concern about these outside people would be just how many schools do they work with? Every university is different. I'm sure some things are similar, but when it comes to stuff regarding what i need to do, where i need to go, who i need to talk to, etc., I want to talk to someone who knows what they're talking about. What about finding out what it takes to move from one program to another? This stuff is specific to the university and colleges within. Are these people going to be able to do that effectively if they're covering 4 different universities? Or will they be assigned to a specific university>college>department?


* random tangent: On a very different (and perhaps not important) level; if this were to happen, I could see those jobs being outsourced to another state, or maybe even another country, at some point like so many other call-center positions. Personally, I refuse to willingly contribute to something like that.

5/12/2009 3:44:01 PM

i would never go to an advisor not fully familiar w/ my curriculum and my field (ie, a non-professor), and i would never go to an advisor not fully familiar w/ nc state. oh and i also would never pay for a virtual advisor.

so no, i would never even consider this service.

5/12/2009 10:07:06 PM

To provide a non-academic perspective to the discussion, professional coaches are becoming more and more needed these days in the working world. These are folks who provide individual, one-on-one mentoring, advising and counseling for folks with high potential for climbing the career ladder. Typically, these individuals are OUTSIDE one's current company / organization and thus, the high-potential can freely share and discuss with said coach without fear of retribution, and, to get honest feedback.

- The subscription fee unfortunately I believe will be the most difficult challenge. Service levels with advising tend to come with fairly regular trends (see beginning / end of semester). Going to have a hard time convincing somebody to pay for advising they aren't using in the interim.
- For it to work, there would need to be a partnership with said college/university. That way, the advisor would be able to provide a broad generalized set of knowledge and could collaborate directly with somebody with more domain specific knowledge at a university.
- I agree with the idea IF and only IF the advisor would continue the relationship with the student post-graduation. There needs a longer-term focus beyond a four-five year period which a student is an undergraduate. Most students aren't capable or won't (in my opinion) realize the value of the advising as freshmen or sophomores.

What I WOULD like to see is departments and colleges within universities start pooling resources together and work smarter in light of the budget cuts. As much as academia has been an ivory tower for ages, sorry, the world is changing, simply cannot do what has always been done. (This stems from my limited time and experience as university staff member, where gross operational inefficiencies were abundant everywhere). Of course, the main challenge with THAT is overhauling the current culture in academia, which will take a lot more than budget cuts to make happen. (Note: There are a LOT of good people in academia, but, the underlying workplace culture/mindset is what drives a lot of activity or lack thereof).

This rambling to say, I think the advisor idea is good, but, if it's being done purely due to budget cuts, I think it's being done for the wrong reasons and the end result have a poor design (i.e. if there weren't budget cuts, would the advisor idea still be a good idea?). IMHO, wrong solution for a given problem. From my own $0.02, I would personally like to see other alternatives on the table (if any) other than this service which are being considered as a result of the budget cuts. I think given the dynamic nature of academic advising, it would be a prime candidate for an area that would be a bit more receptive to ideas and easily achieve change. Again, be curious of alternatives, if any exist.

[Edited on May 12, 2009 at 10:29 PM. Reason : .]

5/12/2009 10:22:13 PM

yeah, what simonn said.

hell, our advisors fit all that criteria and i've never sat down one-on-one with them. just never needed it.

5/12/2009 11:01:50 PM

Right now my advisor and the career center provide all the academic advice that I need.

5/12/2009 11:39:44 PM

dude i want to create a business that does this

[Edited on May 13, 2009 at 12:42 AM. Reason : all the graduation requirements are online...u could make like perfect 4 year plans for ppl]

5/13/2009 12:42:10 AM

Don't know if things have changed since I was in school, but I only went to an adviser because they held the PIN you needed to be able to register for classes hostage. The ransom was a visit with your adviser.

In other words it was a begrudged, required visit. I could figure out what classes I needed for graduation and the course progression myself. I don't really know what an adviser does. Maybe I had a bad one or didn't know how to use an adviser as a resource. Oh well.

5/13/2009 10:24:50 AM

^ yea that has been my experience with registration, but when things mess up or you need something besides registration (study abroad, co-op, credit for a graduation requirement when the system doesnt give you credit, random questions about courses) that is when having the advisor helps they can fix lots of stuff.

[Edited on May 13, 2009 at 11:00 AM. Reason : PS now my advisors in some situations(co-op, study abroad) have allowed me to register by email.]

5/13/2009 10:57:52 AM

I transferred to NCSU from a community college were we had the 2+2 engineering program. We had online advising, were the professor would give us a study session through a virtual connection. I think it was somewhat effective (giving it a B- on a scale), but when I transferred I can honestly say I would not have used it if would have been available (especially if there was a fee to use it as you are stating). There are just too many resources for a student to use for free (well not for free, that's the whole point of tuition).

I think if this is a "business" you are interested in getting into, you are wasting your time, IMO. Most college students, as was I, were a little tight on money and will spend extra money on beer not school...haha . I am not trying to slam your idea (because it is a good one), I'm just giving you my opinion.

Good luck with your idea.

[Edited on May 13, 2009 at 1:53 PM. Reason : :]

5/13/2009 1:52:37 PM

All very helpful. (and BTW Hi Perlith- we should catch up and go to lunch!). I think students paying for it might be hard given limited incomes and as many of you said, you have free services at hand. The more reliable those services are, the less likely you would be to need some sort of virtual services. I do think there is more need than some of you might imagine, and as Perlith alludes to, given that even after leaving institutions, I get solicited for advice and help with academic coaching, how to navigate the university in question, request from parents, etc...drelato think for it to be effective that there would need to be a close relationship somewhere-either with the institutions in question or with known students from which further relationships could be made.

I would never want it to be outsourced to a foreign country and don't believe it could be. And like Perlith said, there is much room for change in advising, making it more efficient and productive. The problem is in the culture in which is operates. Change agents are often feared or rebuffed within places where the status quo seeks to maintain itself. And with budget cuts, often slashing happens without full assessment or thought. So, this idea of finding a way to help people in a new and dynamic way continues to tickle my mind.

5/13/2009 4:29:10 PM

[Edited on May 13, 2009 at 4:30 PM. Reason : -eek double post. ]

5/13/2009 4:29:46 PM

oh, and for not dnl some new and dynamic companies working on academic plans/degree audits are Decision Academic and Starfish.

[Edited on May 13, 2009 at 5:00 PM. Reason : .]

5/13/2009 4:32:55 PM

coming from mechanical engineering, i can't imagine the service would be any worse or any less personal than regular advising

5/14/2009 10:36:20 PM

i don't understand why anyone would need this. Just follow your degree plan until your junior and senior years then you should either know what you need to take or talk directly to your previous and future professors, advisor or career center. Certainly would not pay for this.

I've seen crappy advisors at NCSU and wouldn't pay someone who isn't affliated at all to chance on them being allknowing with specific things that i may or may not want to do.

[Edited on May 15, 2009 at 12:06 AM. Reason : fdsjifo]

5/15/2009 12:04:35 AM

^^^Thank you.

5/15/2009 1:55:16 AM

I can imagine there are a lot of students out there that go into an advisement meeting with the mindset that they are below their advisor, are showing up to be "told" what to do when the exact opposite should be the mindset. That is, that your advisor works for you.

What I enjoyed about my on campus advisor is that he was able to get me in classes that were full, recommend teachers based on his personal experience with them (good, better, best scale), and the jobs/internships he was able to hook me up with throughout my time at NC State.

If you were virtual I would be concerned I would be giving up those advantages. Of course, if your services were also trying to find internships, letting me know if I REALLY needed the textbook for that course (maybe even finding me the cheapest texts), etc then you might find these to be value added and then the subscription fee may be justified - maybe you would even be surprised at how much you could charge. On the top of my head I could think of a dozen things that could be ancillary value add features outside of your academic advisement that would have been nice to have. College is about growing up and taking responsibility but lets be honest, some parents don't have the capacity to assist, some advisors treat students like cattle, and when you are paying thousands of dollars to attend a public or private university spending a small amount to make sure you have top advisement docent actually sound that out of whack.

When campuses decide to cut advisors/professors the student:advisor ratios will be more out of whack. I could see your concept effective ONLY if you kept the ratios appropriate. Especially now that almost every monitor or laptop has a webcam the technology is there. I think you would be great for this and if you were able to get into a single department at NC State and be the recommended point of contact then that would be an awesome way to start. You could also try soliciting some feedback from actual advisors - it is my bet that some of them hate doing advisement and would rather be teaching or doing research. Maybe you are not the de facto advisor but you help fill in the advisement meetings with a student between the 2 that you have forced with your advisor every year.

* I also remember many of my peers who got bad advisement when switching majors about what / how long it would take to graduate. Ended up costing each peer another dreaded summer session or full semester.

[Edited on May 15, 2009 at 10:03 AM. Reason : .]

5/15/2009 9:55:42 AM

One additional comment: In your undergraduate days, if you only got academic advisement solely from one individual, well, that was your choice. Some folks are perfectly fine with one advisor and even then, rarely needed to see them. Others would prefer advising from multiple sources to get different perspectives / ideas on things. Thus, if I'm reading the idea correctly, this is not a "replacement" advisor perse, but rather, somebody supplemental to your primary advisor. (Correct me if I'm wrong on this).

5/15/2009 8:56:15 PM

If NCSU didn't have any support system, then I could see maybe using an adviser from somewhere else in the UNC system. Or if I was in a community college and looking at transferring to a 4 year college that might a situation in which I'd consider using something like this. Personally I doubt I'd look for advice from someone out of state.

5/16/2009 10:46:50 AM