WORDS

I'm cleaning the house up and setting up dive gear downstairs when I hear someone trying to make their way through my front door with a screwdriver. I go upstairs, load my Glock, and look out of my bedroom window which overlooks my front porch. The porch has no roof, and I see two kids trying to pry their way into my house. There are no blinds or curtains downstairs (the place is a rental, and I wasn't going to buy any for a house that isn't mine), so they likely saw all the fishing tackle, dive gear, surfboards, and other outdoor paraphernalia and thought that they could make off with some of it. I walked back downstairs quietly, and they were still trying to jam that fucking screwdriver into my doorjamb. So I eased up next tot he wall beside the door, pulled the slide back on my Glock, and said "Don't make me shoot you!" They split.

I haven't called the cops or anything- should I? Is it likely they will be back?

The neighborhood is pretty busy during the daytime, so I doubt they would try anything while it was still light out, and there's always a car or two in the driveway at night.

Specifically paging theDuke866, Republican18, and wdprice3

[Edited on July 17, 2009 at 11:10 AM. Reason : ]

7/17/2009 11:09:20 AM

No, of course you should never report a crime. Stop snitchin'.

7/17/2009 11:11:00 AM

doubt they will be back


unless they come back with guns

7/17/2009 11:12:45 AM

I doubt they'll be back.

However, I must say that I would've opened the window and said that from above them just for scare value.

7/17/2009 11:12:47 AM

What if they were trying to leave you a nice present?

7/17/2009 11:14:07 AM

Quote :

" However, I must say that I would've opened the window and said that from above them just for scare value."

WIN

7/17/2009 11:14:45 AM

Quote :

"However, I must say that I would've opened the window and said that shot at them from above them just for scare value."

[Edited on July 17, 2009 at 11:16 AM. Reason : fixed it]

7/17/2009 11:15:22 AM

or somehow allowed the door to magically creak open... revealing an unhappy occupant with glock pointed between the eyes of one of the perps

7/17/2009 11:16:30 AM

^ and a camera in the other hand, just to capture the looks on their faces.

7/17/2009 11:17:32 AM

i would report it, especially if you got a decent look at them. i mean, do you honestly think productive members of society go around randomly trying to break into someones home just once?

7/17/2009 11:17:36 AM

should've cornered them and scared them shitless

7/17/2009 11:18:17 AM

Maybe I'll leave a sign on the door that says:

"If you try to come through this door uninvited, I'll shoot you from any one of several possible locations"

It's like the lotto!


I didn't get a good look at them, but they didn't appear to be running to a car or anything. I live on a canal, so there aren't any woods or anything in which they could disappear. They didn't look very tall or large or anything, which is why I said they must have been kids.

I know the police chief for Atlantic Beach (I'm friends with his son), so I'll tell him what happened and maybe he'll have a car make a couple passes tonight.

[Edited on July 17, 2009 at 11:23 AM. Reason : more info]

7/17/2009 11:18:56 AM

i read this as

Quote :

"Is it likely they were black?"

7/17/2009 11:23:01 AM

should have quietly called 911, but not scared them off prematurely and give the cops a change to catch em

they will hit somebody elses house now.

7/17/2009 11:23:14 AM

Should have cornered them and drew down and waited for the cops to show up. If one of them even flinched, you could have put one right between his eyes because he made an aggressive move and you feared for your life.

7/17/2009 11:25:05 AM

7/17/2009 11:27:26 AM

Yeah, shoulda let them break in, and then held them at gunpoint.

7/17/2009 11:28:36 AM

Quote :

"they will hit somebody elses house now."

7/17/2009 11:28:38 AM

^6

i was like "didnt you see them tryna come in?"

[Edited on July 17, 2009 at 11:30 AM. Reason : asdf]

7/17/2009 11:29:43 AM

Quote :

"Should have cornered them and drew down and waited for the cops to show up. If one of them even flinched, you could have put one right between his eyes because he made an aggressive move and you feared for your life."

Totes agreed. Never waste an opportunity to shoot a kid in the face, dawg.

7/17/2009 11:31:34 AM

can't shoot em once they're in the house, only as they're trying to get in. now if they tried to come at me with the screwdriver, then it's curtains for both of em.

I'm calling the ABPD and asking them to make a few more passes tonight and tomorrow night. I doubt the kids will be back.

7/17/2009 11:32:03 AM

you never know if they have a gun themselves and would shoot you through the door just from being startled

7/17/2009 11:33:07 AM

Quote :

"can't shoot em once they're in the house, only as they're trying to get in"

what

7/17/2009 11:34:20 AM

If it took them that long to jimmy a door open, I guess they were just some punk kids.

If they were actual criminal types, now they just know where a gun is if they want to steal one.






Next time, call the cops and get them arrested.

7/17/2009 11:36:22 AM

If you think they're moving at you aggressively, you can shoot them.

7/17/2009 11:36:33 AM

report it

7/17/2009 11:36:43 AM

It's part of something called the castle doctrine. i explained it well in this thread a while back :http://www.thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=555686&page=1

7/17/2009 11:36:58 AM

^^^eh there's more to it than that... iirc - like weapon in hand/size of the aggressor/whether or not they are coming through an exterior doorway/window

Quote :

"if you are in your home and someone is trying to come through your door/window/other household orifice, you can legally shoot them. once they're in your home, though, you can only legally beat the living shit out of them, unless you feel your life is threatened."

from the thread^

[Edited on July 17, 2009 at 11:38 AM. Reason : -]

Quote :

"You may only use deadly force in certain situations (according to the law). An imminent threat of serious injury, death, or sexual assault must be present, you must attempt to retreat, where retreat is possible (doesn't apply in your residence or place of business), you can not have instigated the dispute, and deadly force basically has to be the only and last resort to avoid serious injury, death, or sexual assault. "

[Edited on July 17, 2009 at 11:40 AM. Reason : thread again]

7/17/2009 11:37:58 AM

Couldn't you have just waited until the door opened and then dropped both of them? That's completely justifiable.

7/17/2009 11:38:04 AM

You should have tried to detain them until the cops got there. As it is, you essentially have the worst possible outcome... the criminals are back out on the streets. Good going, genius.

7/17/2009 11:39:47 AM

^^ nope. not once they're in the house, unless they threaten my personal safety or the safety of others in the house.

I was the only one home last night, but the ladyfriend is coming tonight and the last thing i want to deal with is her freaking out as i stalk some prepubescent shithead around my house with a pistol.

^ they weren't very good at b&e, and i couldn't detain them outside my house. I have no authority to do so. they have every right to turn around and run, and if i were to prevent them from doing that, i would be holding them against their will. moron.



[Edited on July 17, 2009 at 11:42 AM. Reason : ^]

7/17/2009 11:40:31 AM

Good job son. Yet another crime prevented without any injuries simply by the presence of a Glock son.

God I love my Glocks. I want to kiss them now son.



(Btw, given the description of what happened your actions seemed properly executed. I congratulate you on the way you handled this.)

7/17/2009 11:43:01 AM

Be careful, alotta time these kidsll come back startin more shit

im not jokin

but its one of those damned if you do, damned if you dont


i hate our B&E laws, let em get away! They may not be very good B&Eers, but they just might be very good stick up kids you know.

i dont feel like its right that we let guys just run free, we should be allowed to detain and use deadly force to defend our homes and protect our community

[Edited on July 17, 2009 at 11:49 AM. Reason : f]

7/17/2009 11:45:42 AM

Quote :

"not once they're in the house, unless they threaten my personal safety or the safety of others in the house."

When I took CCW they told me it was justifiable if they were entering the house, which generally meant in the doorway. I might be way off, that was 4 years ago.

7/17/2009 11:46:09 AM

^ in the doorway counts as trying to get in. once they're in the living room though, the rules change.

called ABPD. They'll increase their rounds for the next few nights. Apparently I'm the 4th person in my area to call in something like this.

7/17/2009 11:48:00 AM

1. Report it, give all information you can.
2. I'd stay alert. It's unlikely they'll come back... but if they want your stuff they might. If they want to challenge you, they'll bring more than a screwdriver. Lock doors, windows, etc. Keep your self defense means close, and lock them up when you're not there.
3. You can legally shoot if they are in the process of entering illegally. You cannot shoot if they are simply tresspassing (i.e. they're already there and are basically just sitting/standing there). As soon as they threaten your life or serious injury you can shoot. If they commit a felony you can shoot. You did the right thing - it seems that you already know most of this. You don't want to have to deal with the issues of using deadly force as a means to self defense.

that really sucks, but it's awesome that you prevented a crime and did it properly. WHERE IS 20/20 NOW? GUNS CAN'T PREVENT CRIMES?? GUNS CAN'T BE USED IN SELF DEFENSE???



[Edited on July 17, 2009 at 11:53 AM. Reason : .]

7/17/2009 11:51:17 AM

should have shot a window out near where they were standing. the scare factor would have likely left shit on your front porch or wherever they were standing.. but they'd never fucking do it again.

7/17/2009 11:52:45 AM

warning shots are not legal. no matter where you aim.

7/17/2009 11:53:12 AM

^^^^ Exactly. Once they get inside the house, the rules are the same as they would be on the street. You must be in imminent danger of death/GBH for lethal force to be justified.

If they are in the process of kicking in the door or breaking in/climbing through your window, you can simply fill them with lead, even through the door or window.


^ I'm not sure on that actually, can you show me where in the statutes it says that? I'm not trying to be rude btw, I'll totally believe you if you show me. It's just that other than not being able to fire within the city limits I'm not sure that anything specifies that warning shots are illegal. You shouldn't fire them unless you're justified in killing someone, but I don't think there's anything illegal about a warning shot.... I know someone who fired one and told the police exactly what they did and they were just fine. There were no blood trails, although it was just bird shot anyway and so they didn't even take it further.

7/17/2009 11:53:16 AM

REMEMBER WHEN THE COPS KILLED PEYTON STRICKLAND?

7/17/2009 11:54:08 AM

Quote :

"warning shots are not legal. no matter where you aim. "

i didnt say it was legal. i just said it would have scared the fucking piss out of them. and it sounds like if they were trying to enter he could have shot them anyways, no?

[Edited on July 17, 2009 at 11:55 AM. Reason : spell]

7/17/2009 11:54:41 AM

Quote :

"REMEMBER WHEN THE COPS KILLED PEYTON STRICKLAND?"

damn you ... i was just about to post this

7/17/2009 11:55:44 AM

okay guys catch me up here

why are we so hot to shoot kids again

7/17/2009 11:55:50 AM

Quote :

"warning shots are not legal. no matter where you aim."

exactly. you are ultimately responsible for the final resting place of every bullet you fire. I use hollow points, but God forbid I actually hit the house across the street from me with the 4 children living in it.


^ i'm not looking to shoot anyone. as a matter of fact, i'll likely do everything possible to prevent that from happening. not only do you have the moral dilemma, but you will also be in and out of court for various civil suits for the next several months as Little Johnny's parents try and sue you for the future cardiologist salary he was one day going to earn after he got out of juvy.

[Edited on July 17, 2009 at 11:59 AM. Reason : ^]

7/17/2009 11:56:16 AM

forgot about that

..this is why i don't own a gun

7/17/2009 11:57:39 AM

Quote :

"Exactly. Once they get inside the house, the rules are the same as they would be on the street. You must be in imminent danger of death/GBH for lethal force to be justified."

Largely subjective. If the person makes an aggressive move, and you fear for your life you are within your rights to shoot. Now who says what an aggressive move is, or where your threshold for fearing for your life is? If I tell an intruder not to fucking move, and he moves, that's aggressive and I'm fearing for my life. End of story.

I don't care if it's a sneeze.

7/17/2009 11:57:48 AM

Quote :

"Largely subjective. If the person makes an aggressive move, and you fear for your life you are within your rights to shoot. Now who says what an aggressive move is, or where your threshold for fearing for your life is? If I tell an intruder not to fucking move, and he moves, that's aggressive and I'm fearing for my life. End of story. I don't care if it's a sneeze."

Have you actually had any training on this or are you just babbling? I was talking about your legal rights once they are inside. It is non-negotiable, the law is the law unfortunately.

7/17/2009 11:58:33 AM

you should have a computer with a retinal scanner program installed in your home so you can instantly scan the offenders, look up their criminal record, and determine right there whether you want to detain them, cap em, or run em off

thatd be the best thing

7/17/2009 11:58:53 AM

Quote :

"Exactly. Once they get inside the house, the rules are the same as they would be on the street. You must be in imminent danger of death/GBH for lethal force to be justified. "

I don't think this is right in NC. I was under the impression that they need to be in your house to shoot them. For instance, if you shoot them while they're coming through the door you better hope they land in the living room instead of on the porch.

For instance in NC:

(b) A lawful occupant within a home or other place of residence does not have a duty to retreat from an intruder in the circumstances described in this section


[Edited on July 17, 2009 at 12:00 PM. Reason : ]

7/17/2009 11:58:53 AM

Well the concealed carry permit says I've been trained, yes.

7/17/2009 11:59:05 AM