The other thread was too divisive in the title, I would like a thread that just talks about the phone; not one tries to be better than any other.

Wiki repository of all hacking efforts: http://www.webos-internals.org

Hacking disucssions: http://forums.precentral.net/web-os-development/

Homebrew apps: http://forums.precentral.net/homebrew-apps/
Btw, installing homebrew apps is now a drag-and-drop experience and doesn't affect the operation of your phone at all.

[Edited on July 20, 2009 at 10:19 AM. Reason : .]

7/20/2009 10:13:26 AM

best phone ever

/thread

7/21/2009 12:48:36 PM

strongly considering getting one. I have a $150 upgrade credit, so I could get one for $199 at best buy.

someone convince me

7/21/2009 12:53:05 PM

From gs7 when discussed earlier:

Quote :

"i like the pre over the iphone because: - it is smaller and fits in my hand with a natural feeling, but the screen resolution is the same - it has a hardware keyboard and i very rarely make mistakes - it is easily hackable and palm doesn't try to stop me - it has native gmail push - it has native copy/paste - it has an easily swappable battery - it can charge without being plugged in - it multi-tasks like a champ ... i can browse the internet, look at contacts, calendar, or even take a picture while i'm on a phone call - it integrates all my gmail/facebook/exchange/etc contacts into single contacts - it integrates all SMS/gtalk/aim conversations into an individual screen per contact - it integrates all my calendars into one interface, and applications can add events to their own calenders - it keeps track of multiple alerts as it gets them and keeps them all unobtrusively at the bottom until i acknowledge them - it allows my computer to see it as a usb hard drive if i want it to - it has a very very bright led flash next to the camera lens - it saves pictures in the background and allows you to take multiples in a row without having to dismiss the last pic taken - it can create "application shortcuts" on the main screen for any contact or website - it has built in spoken turn-by-turn Sprint GPS Navigation included - it is not on AT&T - it is a more affordable plan with Sprint, btw, i get unlimited roaming with data on VZW for free too, so signal isn't even an issue you'd think it wouldn't be that hard for apple to make that that stuff happen, but they didn't. surprising thing is, they didn't even offer the addition of an led flash for the camera either. wow. it's the little details that make life easier that matter."

Quote :

"i'm really enjoying how intuitive the phone feels, and i like how small it fits in my hand and also how very comfortable it is in my pocket. the integration with email, contacts, and calendar is really brilliant by the way. so simple and effective you wonder why no one thought of it before. only thing that bothers me (and i'm sure they'll push a software update to solve this problem) is that it pulls in ALL of the gmail contacts and ALL of the facebook friends and there is no way to only pull specific contacts. still, it's brilliant. also, the messaging interface is really nice, i really like the unified sms/gtalk interface, i imagine they'll add support for other messaging protocols, can't be that difficult. overall, i don't feel like this is anything mind-blowing, it really just feels natural and easy to use. a few software updates are definitely in order to fix some small bugs, but i am extremely satisfied so far."

SDK is out but the app store won't be open until the fall, as of now there's only 30 apps developed by close third-party vendors

[Edited on July 21, 2009 at 3:19 PM. Reason : .]

7/21/2009 3:17:45 PM

^Thanks, hah, I was debating reposting that stuff.

But yea, the homebrew community is alive and thriving, there's about 50 homebrewed apps available currently in varied states of quality and more are on the way.

The hacking community is very active as well, it's quite fun to see what everyone is coming up with and take part ... and know that Palm isn't going to jump down our throat and restrict our access for having fun.

7/21/2009 11:19:24 PM

this is, eventually, going to end badly for Palm

Quote :

" Palm announced the update Thursday on the company's blog. Pre users can expect the new software to arrive via an over-the-air update. "Oh, and one more thing: Palm webOS 1.1 re-enables Palm media sync," the post reads. "That’s right -- you once again can have seamless access to your music, photos and videos from the current version of iTunes (8.2.1).""

what a bunch of disingenuous bullshit. "you can once again have access to your music" Hey - how about, again, you write your own sync software based on the open and free iTunes XML database

7/23/2009 9:15:53 PM

^Hey how about Apple not intentionally block other people from interfacing with their software? Oh that's right, because they are becoming full of themselves and don't want to play nicely.

7/23/2009 10:33:43 PM

Apple allows other companies, any company or person, to freely read the iTunes XML library file, which gives them full information and access to all files being managed through iTunes. Any company can create a sync-program which is simply an interface that reads the iTunes XML data and syncs all the iTunes files onto another device.

Apple, or any other company, is under no obligation to let 3rd party hardware sync or interface directly with their own proprietary software.

7/23/2009 10:38:55 PM

They are under no obligation to support it, sure, but they blatantly updated iTunes with intention to block the Palm Pre. So now Palm updated the Pre to make it work again.

*shrug* I don't use iTunes, but I still think it's a pretty dick move by Apple.

Also, it would seem that Apple likes these cat-and-mouse games, for example, the iPhone hacking community. I guess Apple either doesn't get it or they like wasting developer time.

[Edited on July 23, 2009 at 10:46 PM. Reason : .]

7/23/2009 10:46:02 PM

http://www.precentral.net/how-palm-re-enabled-itunes-sync

Quote :

"So the big question: How did Palm re-enable iTunes sync? The answer, so far as we can tell, is to go even deeper in their efforts to make the Pre look like an iPod. I just plugged my 1.1 Pre into my Mac in Media Sync mode and sure enough, it's identifying itself with an Apple USB Vendor ID: Product ID: 0x8002 Vendor ID: 0x05ac (Apple Inc.) Version: 0.16 Manufacturer: Palm Inc. Jeffgus in our forums confirms the same: The Pre is now telling your computer that the vendor who made it is Apple. The change here is that with previous versions of webOS, the Vendor ID was "0x0830 (Palm Inc.)." So while previously the Pre identified itself as a "mass storage device" called an iPod, now it's identifying itself as a "mass storage device manufactured by Apple" called an iPod."

Quote :

" When you apply for a USB Vendor ID, you sign a form (PDF link) that explicitly states that: Unauthorized use of assigned or unassigned USB Vendor ID Numbers and associated Product ID Numbers are strictly prohibited."

read the link, and see that Palm is preemptively filing a complaint against Apple about misuse of USB Vendor IDs......

This kind of behavior should be utterly embarrassing for Palm. All the way to the Sr Management should be ashamed.

7/24/2009 3:36:53 PM

I dunno, I kind of thought it was a pretty awesome thing of palm to do, especially in light of the childish behavior of Apple.

7/24/2009 6:19:49 PM

i still fail to see how Apple is behaving childishly by not wanting other company's products showing up as "iPod" when they plug them in.

And faking a USB vendor ID? That's rich..... not to mention illegal according to the USB contract

7/24/2009 6:26:27 PM

I mean, I can definitely see both sides of the argument, but I think it was pretty childish to change iTunes for the sole purpose of breaking something that worked. I mean, I guess they are sort of competing products, but I would have rather seen a snarky Apple ad talking about how the Pre "needs" iTunes to be able to work or something like that. Shutting them out completely (or trying to at least) seems like a dick move to me. Palm just batted the ball right back at them. Illegal or not, it made me laugh.

7/24/2009 6:36:12 PM

^^Man alive, that must have been some tasty kool-aid.

I fail to see how it hurts Apple software if other products can interact with iTunes. I fail to see why (other than a purely greedy, capitalist reason) Apple would even want to block other products from interacting with iTunes directly.

Frankly, I'm surprised that Apple is still not being considered for anti-trust charges considering the HUGE market-share of music and devices that they hold onto so tightly and don't allow interoperability. I understand capitalism, but damn, even Microsoft gave up the war against SMB/Samba connections. If you don't know what I'm referring to, look it up.

They are being childish for no reason other than because they are afraid that if they actually give choice to users, they just might not choose them. Their solution, force them to buy everything Apple, because it just "works better" that way. That makes them look like dicks. Why should I be forced to be like everyone else, why should I buy an MP3 player that lacks features I want just because the software I like refuses to sync with anything else? (Note, I don't like/use iTunes anyway)

Bottom line: Apple has failed to learn lessons from other companies. If Microsoft blocked access to Windows from any machine that isn't Windows, don't you think there'd be an uproar? When will sheeple stop drinking the Apple Kool-Aid?



[Edited on July 24, 2009 at 6:52 PM. Reason : .]

7/24/2009 6:41:15 PM

Quote :

"I fail to see how it hurts Apple software if other products can interact with iTunes."

They can. Using the free and open iTunes XML library.

Quote :

"I fail to see why Apple would even want to block other products from interacting with iTunes directly."

Because Apple wants to control the iTunes experience. Same reason the don't license OS X for installation on every crapware piece of shit x86 machine out there. If companies start hacking into iTunes and masquerading as iPods and there are problems, and iTunes shits the bed, guess who the user blames - Apple.

Now, could Apple release an API for interfacing directly inside iTunes, instead of just the XML file? Sure. Should they? Yeah, maybe. That might be good for everyone. But must they? No, not if they don't want to.

Quote :

"Their solution, force them to buy everything Apple, because it just "works better" that way. That makes them look like dicks. "

Gosh, we wouldn't want that. The last thing Steve Jobs ever wants to be accused of is being a dick.
Go check out MSFTs latest quarterlies compared to AAPLs, then we can talk about which way "is better" for Apple.

Quote :

"If Microsoft blocked access to Windows from any machine that isn't Windows,"

What the hell are you talking about?

We're talking about one program, iTunes, that Apple controls. It's their program, if they don't want Palm or MS or Joe's Awesome MP3 interfacing with it, they don't have to. Apple allows plenty of OS X APIs to build Mac-native programs that can do the same thing as iTunes, even using the iTunes metadata and files, and on Windows, the iTunes data is just sitting there begging to be read. But if you want a spot inside iTunes, Apple's software? Then you'd better be an Apple product.

Jesus, do you get your panties in a bunch because you can't sync your BlackBerry with ActiveSync? No? Oh, right, because ActiveSync is for Windows Mobile products, not BlackBerry or Palm or iPhone or anything else they don't want to support.

7/24/2009 7:21:22 PM

Actaully activesync is available to anyone willing to license it from microsoft. Both Apple and Palm have done so for their phone OSes. For media sync, there are two options with Windows Media Player. There is an SDK for devices (free afaik) to do syncing. Otherwise if the device shows up as an external storage device, wmp11 (and maybe 10) can do simple file level sync to the device (also free). The second option requires the device to be able to handle cataloging the files, but this can be done easily via meta data. The only thing that costs money is if you want to liscense the Windows Media codecs or DRM. You actually can license them, as opposed to Apples drm and formats which are kept under strict control to facilitate their itunes/ipod lock in.

So maybe you're right and maybe apple just wants to control itunes, but if you compare their competitors' software and apple's past history it seems far more likely that they dont want anyone using itunes without an ipod/iphone or using and ipod/iphone without itunes.

7/24/2009 7:56:13 PM

"license" being the operative word

7/24/2009 7:59:22 PM

more like palmfao prehe am I right?

7/24/2009 8:01:52 PM

im sure if itunes sync could be licensed palm and probably others would pay for it. Personally I wish I could just plug my iphone in and drag shit to it like every other media player in the last 10 years. My point here is that Apple's various means to prevent compatibility are designed to keep people out of the itunes store unless they've paid for an apple device and to prevent them from using an apple device with non-itunes store software. Apple isn't some grand benevolent company. They actively promote vendor lock in and why they dont get any heat for it compared to Microsofts relative wide open protocols is beyond me.

7/24/2009 8:17:04 PM

if the intention of this new thread was to shake loose the apple fanboys it doesn't seem to have worked

7/25/2009 1:00:56 PM

Quote :

""license" being the operative word"

wmp even works with 'external storage devices' sans licesnse. also Apple doesn't even offer to license iTunes, so Shaggy still has a point.

imho, iTunes sucks, i'd much rather use any other software out there to sync my mp3 player, not only that but iTunes is expensive for mp3s, it really just doesn't even make any sense unless you have a iPod or other Apple products.

but PLEASE don't create ANOTHER music sync program

[Edited on July 25, 2009 at 3:14 PM. Reason : .]

7/25/2009 3:12:51 PM

its absolutely insane that Palm thinks they have some sort of right to a) illegally spoof their shit as an Apple product b) to use iTunes at all.

Why WOULD Apple let a competitor benefit from using their software? This is a business, not a charity organization. Why should they let Palm leech off their work?

If i was Apple i'd tell Palm to fuck off and make their own sync app. That or charge 'em hefty license for being shady crooks in the first place.

7/25/2009 3:52:09 PM

i'd bet apple gets more money from people using itunes and buying songs from allowing the pre to use itunes than to convince people to buy an iphone instead

7/25/2009 6:39:05 PM

Yeah, it's not like people who just signed the two year contract on the Pre are going to go "whoops, I really wanted to use iTunes, so let me pay the fee to cancel this contract and switch providers"

I mean, it just seems silly for Apple to go out of their way to kill functionality that doesn't really hurt them in any way.

7/25/2009 8:13:15 PM

Quote :

"i'd bet apple gets more money from people using itunes and buying songs from allowing the pre to use itunes than to convince people to buy an iphone instead"

agreed.. but if i was in control of apple i'd do the same thing.

7/25/2009 9:11:22 PM

so far the only thing that really bothers me is the quiet, barely vibrate text message notification that you cant change

7/26/2009 2:41:10 PM

Quote :

"it can charge without being plugged in"

how does it do this?

and the iphone now does do some the other things in that post that you say it doesn't. i don't know if you made that list before the current gen or what...
copy/paste
no dismissing pics
shortcuts to websites on main screen (dunno about contacts)
so far i haven't come across things i can't do while on the phone too


[Edited on July 27, 2009 at 10:16 AM. Reason : ]

7/27/2009 10:13:14 AM

Quote :

"how does it do this? "

inductance. Same principle that every transformer on every power pole you've ever seen works.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday%27s_law_of_induction
Been around for pretty much as long as we've been studying electricity. People have been talking about doing this for decades, but there are several drawbacks, like lower efficiency (charges take longer), proximity to base (you still have to put the device right next to a charging base), increased EM radiation, etc.

In the case of the Pre, it must be set directly onto the magnetic charging base. It's somewhat novel, because of the sheer "coolness" factor, and also because you can dock it quickly and in any orientation, but otherwise doesn't hold many advantages over a charging dock with a physical plug.

7/27/2009 10:29:02 AM

hmm. yeah if you still have to dock it then whats the point besides coolness?

7/27/2009 11:36:41 AM

well, there are prototypes, or maybe just ideas, of "charging pads" that we will have in the future, that may just be a thin pad (like mouse pad), or box or something that you can set multiple devices on to charge wirelessly. This way, you would leave the pad on your desk, then you can easily drop any number of wireless devices on it to charge at any time - ipod, phones, mice, cameras, GPS, etc.

7/27/2009 12:02:17 PM

that'd be cool

7/27/2009 12:19:23 PM

It's nice because you don't have to bother with attaching/detaching a plug. It's more of a convenience than anything. I mean, you have to recharge it somehow, and you're bound to set it down on your desk at some point, so putting it on the touchstone is a natural action.

^^And I'm looking forward to that day.

[Edited on July 27, 2009 at 12:43 PM. Reason : .]

7/27/2009 12:43:17 PM

Sorry for the possibly stupid question, but is there any plans to release this thing on Verizon?

7/27/2009 5:12:43 PM

Actually I just came here to post about Verizon; and I know Prospero will be happy to hear this....

Verizon Says Palm Pre Next Year

http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2009/07/27/verizon-details-smart-phone-plans/

http://www.cio-today.com/story.xhtml?story_id=12300F18FNVC

7/27/2009 5:31:05 PM

nice.

7/28/2009 11:27:43 AM

the lack of ability to change notification sounds for things like text msg's is really a major drawback

it is making me more and more annoyed as the days go by

8/2/2009 8:17:49 PM

If you haven't looked into any of the homebrew apps yet, you really should.

To start, install WebOS Quick Install:
http://forums.precentral.net/homebrew-apps/194832-webos-quick-install-v1-0-a.html

Use that to install Filecoaster, which will allow you to just use the Pre to install apps on itself:
http://forums.precentral.net/homebrew-apps/194825-filecoaster-first-pre-gui-downloader-installer.html

Then use Filecoaster to install any homebrew app from that forum.

^You really might be interested in the homebrew app called "My Notification", currently only changes a few sounds, we'll see what they allow in the future.
http://forums.precentral.net/homebrew-apps/188729-my-notification-v-1-0-3-6-30-a.html

8/3/2009 12:25:31 AM

I have to agree with you on that point. For the amount of amazing things they got right when they made the pre, they left out some really obvious ones.

No slider/progress bar when listening to music? WTF?

8/3/2009 12:25:48 AM

the creepy lady in the commercials is really starting to annoy me. i know it's supposed to grab your attention and all, but PLEASE MAKE HER GO AWAY

8/3/2009 9:14:35 AM

Quote :

"it multi-tasks like a champ ... i can browse the internet, look at contacts, calendar, or even take a picture while i'm on a phone call"

I do that all the time on my iPhone. I like the pre, although it feels kind of cheap.

8/3/2009 11:39:33 AM

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&Item=290332087392

the case is kind tough to get it to click in place at every point, and they sent me the wrong lcd protector, but a good deal overall.

8/7/2009 7:37:34 PM

tethered to my laptop to use as a USB modem. Works great. So now I have internet access anywhere my phone works...............

google mytether for more info...............

8/10/2009 3:55:32 PM

ahhahahahahahaha

Quote :

"Friend on AIM: My friend's Pre broke. He dropped it off at Sprint. They told him to come back the next day. He did, and there was a sign on the door that said "closed until further notice""

http://twitter.com/ddahlke/status/3245208692

[Edited on August 11, 2009 at 1:54 PM. Reason : apparently this guy lives in Raleigh... which store closed?]

8/11/2009 1:49:00 PM

that would suck. I am sure best buy isn't going anywhere though

8/11/2009 5:02:38 PM

http://www.mobilecrunch.com/2009/08/12/oh-by-the-way-the-palm-pre-phones-home-with-your-location/

Quote :

"This is going to end well, and no one will be upset about this. Also, everything I said in that last sentence is probably wrong. When Debian developer Joey Hess started tinkering with webOS, he noticed that it was sending something to Palm once a day. Surely, Palm wasn’t sending anything too potentially incriminating without making it blatantly obvious to the user, right? Wrong. Joey tore apart the data the Pre was transmitting, and there it was, smack dab at the top of the page: { “errorCode”: 0, “timestamp”: 1249855555954.000000, “latitude”: 36.594108, “longitude”: -82.183260, “horizAccuracy”: 2523, “heading”: 0, “velocity”: 0, “altitude”: 0, “vertAccuracy”: 0 } That was Joey’s position at the time the data was sent, accurate to the same degree that the Google Maps application was. Also included was a list of every application Joey used, along with how long they were used for (as measured by “launch” and “close” parameters), along with crashlogs. Last but very much not least, it also sent a manifest file of all applications installed on the phone - including third-party applications not authorized by Palm. All of this data is sent to ps.palmws.com. For some crazy reason, people don’t really like having this sort of information sent back to the mothership without their explicit consent. Palm knows this, of course, and has their bases covered in their privacy policy: Location Based Services. When you use location based services, we will collect, transmit, maintain, process, and use your location and usage data (including both real time geographic information and information that can be used to approximate location) in order to provide location based and related services, and to enhance your device experience. The latter part of that sentence, “in order to provide location based and related services”, makes perfect sense - you open Google Maps, and it needs to find your location. Sure. Then they tack “enhance your device experience” onto the end, essentially giving them full reign to send your data wherever the hell they want as long as it potentially makes the experience better. Of course, Palm’s privacy policy could say that they have the right to punch you in the face and light your shoes on fire, and no one would notice. Even the most anal of gadget users don’t tear through EULAs and privacy policies before booting up their device. When it comes to location tracking and device activity, you must alert the user and specifically request permission. If you don’t, you are spying, plain and simple. Regardless of what Palm is doing with this data, the user needs to be completely aware that it is being sent. Furthermore, why would Palm need this data? It’s not for marketing reasons; you know where I bought my phone. It’s not for technical reasons on the carrier’s end, such as network load balancing - the towers are already fully aware of who’s in each cell. Palm, your privacy policy opens by stating “Our goal is to help you make informed decisions about the personal information you share with us.” If thats the case, you’re doing a pretty terrible job. You can see a full list of what is being transmitted here."

8/12/2009 4:54:35 PM

i don't like it either, but this has already been around for years, even on dumb phones... the writer of that article sounds like a retard. he also seems to be oblivious to the fact that all the location based services stuff and the info it uses is made very clear during the initial device setup/activation. you can't just skip over it/exit out, either.

8/16/2009 10:43:29 PM

I'm going to go back to hiding under a rock, and no, I won't tell you which one I'm under.

8/17/2009 12:30:27 AM

We know, b/c the pre knows.

8/17/2009 12:55:15 AM

I can view TWW from my pre but it won't let me log in...anyone else have the same problem or know how to fix it?

8/27/2009 8:01:48 PM

I've actually had the same problem and can't come up with a solution. TWW is the only site with this problem, I can't reproduce it anywhere.

8/28/2009 2:43:52 AM