Quote :

"RALEIGH, N.C. -- House and Senate Democrats closed in Tuesday on a deal to generate about $1 billion in new taxes this year in North Carolina they said would raise both sales and income taxes but avoid subjecting a host of services to the sales tax. Leaders in both chambers said they had a deal in principle on how to raise the revenues more than five weeks after negotiations first began. Finding such a deal has been the key obstacle to passing a permanent state government budget for the next two years that began July 1. "We think it's time to get an agreement and finish this off," House Speaker Joe Hackney, D-Orange, said after a caucus of House Democrats. "

"We think it's time to get an agreement and finish THIS STATE off."

-- Sales tax going up to 7.75%. (Take that, working poor)
-- 2 percent surcharge on all individuals and corporations on their income tax bill for the next two years. (Take that, wage-earners)
-- The cigarette tax also would go up by as much as 15 cents a pack to 50 cents and raise taxes on beer, wine and liquor (take that, alcoholic chain-smokers)
-- An effort to collect the sales tax from digital downloads and other online transactions also remains on the table. (Take that, Wolf-Webbers)

Quote :

"Republicans, which are in the minority in both chambers, have said higher taxes aren't needed this year because the budget gap is exaggerated and budget-writers haven't weeded out enough unnecessary programs. "

Remember...there is nothing we can cut except police, fire and emptying the prisons.


"My advice for those who die, declare the pennies on your eyes"


http://heraldsun.southernheadlines.com/state/6-1162315.cfm

7/21/2009 10:48:00 PM

what is your proposal. The state has a $4.5 billion deficit and has obligations in respect to education, dhhs, etc that just don't disappear when the economy turns.

And remember, they are already cutting $3 billion

[Edited on July 21, 2009 at 10:52 PM. Reason : .]

7/21/2009 10:51:25 PM

oh look, again with the ass-talk. fun

7/21/2009 11:03:33 PM

Quote :

"what is your proposal."

Quote :

"Cutting spending, not raising taxes, is answer to budget woes A 6 percent cut is all it would take, and that's not asking much. -N.C. Rep. Ric Killian, R-Mecklenburg, Jul. 16, 2009 The 2009 session of the N.C. General Assembly will end soon. The 2009-2010 budget is the session's most significant legislation. Projected revenues for 2009-2010 are $19.2 billion, including non-recurring federal stimulus money. Actual expenditures for 2008-2009 are $20.3 billion. To close the $1.1 billion gap, the legislature must either reduce spending, raise taxes, or both. The House and Senate budget writers agree on nearly a $1 billion tax increase, and are working out the details of who will pay. House Democrats want to raise income and sales taxes, while Senate Democrats want to increase what is taxed. Gov. Bev Perdue recently called for up to $1.6 billion of additional income, sales, business, and excise taxes; and limiting itemized deductions including home mortgage interest. Specifically, she proposes a 1 percent sales tax increase, additional taxes on cigarettes and alcohol and adding taxes on warranties, installations, repairs, amusements/movies and many other services. These taxes are regressive and take hard-earned dollars from families when they can least afford it. She also proposes business taxes including LLC assessments, insurance premium taxes and limiting other exemptions. These taxes will reduce our state's economic competitiveness. Reducing spending, not raising taxes, is the solution. A reduction of less than 6 percent from current spending is all that is necessary to balance the budget for next year. This is reasonable given that state spending increased an average of 6 percent in each of the past eight years. One example of potential spending reductions came from a recent report of the Program Evaluation Division of the General Assembly, stating that effective planning and oversight of a mental health program could have saved taxpayers up to $226 million. Reducing spending would not necessitate the reduction of services claimed by special interests; rather, it is a common sense solution that N.C. families and businesses are using every day. It is time for a new direction in Raleigh. We should use the zero-based budgeting approach, with input from all members of the General Assembly, in an open and transparent forum. We must reevaluate all programs and realign our spending to coincide with the needs of our citizens, not the wants of the special interests. "

Raising taxes during a recession will only lead to less economic activity. With even fewer and fewer tax dollars coming in (despite the increases in taxation), politicians will want to raise even more taxes to make up for the ever-widening shortfalls. It's a vicious cycle.

7/21/2009 11:44:45 PM

laying off teachers and not funding medicaid will certainly boost the economy!

7/21/2009 11:46:01 PM

i vote screw the highway budget the federal gov. has that handled with the stimulus.

7/21/2009 11:51:54 PM

Push the button Bev,

7/21/2009 11:52:54 PM

I propose shutting down UNC Chapel hill.

7/21/2009 11:54:44 PM

Did you really just quote Ric Killian? The man who has been touting this billion dollar lie nonsense?

What Mr. Killian doesn't provide is a breakdown of expenditures. For instance, the stimulus money. Mr. Killian doesn't inform the reader that the stimulus money cannot just go anywhere. It must be spent in the areas the federal government mandates with the money.

Now onto DHHS. If the state were to make many of the cuts Mr. Killian has advocated in the past, the state would actually end up losing over $1 billion in money. The federal government provides 3 to 1 matching dollars on many of these program Mr. Killian proposes to cut. That is not fiscally smart.

Also, Mr. Killian claims that there are no cuts in the State budget. That is a wholesale lie. There is about $3.5 billion being cut from areas such as Justice and Public Safety, Education, DHHS.

We will not make up a 22% budget deficit through spending cuts alone.

Your buddy also failed to mention that as a result of the current revenue short fall, the Lottery Reserve Fund is drained, the Rainy Day Fund is drained, the Escheat Fund is on the brink of bankruptcy and all he can talk about is more tax cuts? Bullshit.

[Edited on July 22, 2009 at 12:14 AM. Reason : .]

[Edited on July 22, 2009 at 12:20 AM. Reason : .]

7/21/2009 11:56:36 PM

which is why it's imperative that we shut down Orange County community College.

7/22/2009 12:11:41 AM

I say we shut it down and sell off the land.

7/22/2009 12:13:17 AM

Quote :

"Also, Mr. Killian claims that there are not cuts in the State budget."

I have some laid-off teacher friends who'd challenge this point.

7/22/2009 12:18:07 AM

Precisely, not to mention the other state employees who will lose or have already lost their jobs due to current and pending budget cuts.

7/22/2009 12:21:41 AM

which is why it's imperative that we shut down Orange County community College.

7/22/2009 12:55:10 AM

Quote :

"Sales tax going up to 7.75%. (Take that, working poor)"

And here I'd been under the impression that many libertarians favored a flat sales tax to replace most (if not all) other forms of government revenue. Also that they disagreed that it would disproportionately hurt the working poor.

Quote :

"The cigarette tax also would go up by as much as 15 cents a pack to 50 cents and raise taxes on beer, wine and liquor (take that, alcoholic chain-smokers)"

Come on, EarthDogg, you're above pandering to me personally.

Quote :

"-- An effort to collect the sales tax from digital downloads and other online transactions also remains on the table. (Take that, Wolf-Webbers) "

It's a fast-growing market. Sooner or later it will (and ought to be) taxed in a meaningful way, pretty much regardless of what kind of taxes you think should exist.

7/22/2009 1:00:29 AM

the proposed tax is a 10¢ per pack of cigarettes

5¢ cents on a six pack of beer

Commiserate rates on wine and liquor.

7/22/2009 1:13:33 AM

Quote :

"And here I'd been under the impression that many libertarians favored a flat sales tax to replace most ..."

Many people support a flat income tax. Many people support the FairTax bill (National Sales Tax to replace the income/payroll tax) which would exempt the poor from paying sales tax on the basic necessities.

Quote :

"Also, Mr. Killian claims that there are not cuts in the State budget." If the state were to make many of the cuts Mr. Killian has advocated in the past, the state would actually end up losing over $1 billion in money."

Sources for these assertions?

7/22/2009 1:36:07 AM

A cut of $101 million in Medicaid spending will result in a loss of $300 million in federal matching funds. That is just Medicaid.

http://www.ncmedsoc.org/blog/index.php/archives/253

Couple that with other programs in DHHS and you end up with a figure well above $1 billion.

7/22/2009 1:50:32 AM

^
Your article has no mention of Killian claiming there are no cuts in the state budget. It doesn't even mention his name.

Seems to me, if we really tried, we could cut at least 6% out of the budget just from reducing waste and inefficiencies.

7/22/2009 2:22:36 AM

They are making a 14% cut. What you and Killian are advocating is a 20% cut.

As per my article, it was in reference to the federal matching dollars.

7/22/2009 8:50:57 AM

EarthDogg, I see that your opinions on this matter are grounded in reality, and not some knee-jerk libertarian reaction to any and all taxes.

7/22/2009 8:52:50 AM

Quote :

"I propose shutting down UNC Chapel hill."

best statementitt

7/22/2009 8:56:35 AM

Quote :

"They are making a 14% cut. What you and Killian are advocating is a 20% cut. "

Again, do you have a source where Killian is advocating a 20% cut in any gov't program?

7/22/2009 10:40:03 AM

They have already cut 14% out of the budget. The additional 6% Killian is proposing would take the total to 20% budget cut.

Actually, they have already cut 15%.

For the 2008-2009 fiscal year, there was appropriated approximately $21 billion to operate the state. Since that time, there was the market fall out and everything went to shit.

In order to float the State of North Carolina for awhile, the Lottery Reserve Fund was tapped, the Rainy Day fund was tapped, the Escheat fund was tap and some stimulus money was used.

Also at the same time, the State cut operating costs to 85% of what was appropriated. For the month of May and June, the State cut spending by that much and for the month of July it is operating on 85% of what was spent in June.

For simplicity sake, since I don't feel like going too much into the numbers, the State originally appropriated about $1,750,000,000 per each month. May and June operated at 85% of that $1,487,500,000 and now July is operating at 85% of that $1,264,375,000. This is fine to do for the month of July since a large percentage of state expenditures (education) isn't receiving as much money. In total, that would give the state an operating budget of about $15,172,500,000, which is far below spending numbers from earlier this decade.

Mr. Killian would be proposing we take the current operating budget from the end of 2008-2009 (June, extrapolated out: $17,850,000,000) and take an additional 6% off that, 1,260,000,000, total budget: $16,590,000,000. Completely unworkable.

[Edited on July 22, 2009 at 11:11 AM. Reason : .]

7/22/2009 10:47:56 AM

Quote :

"The new plan: more taxes for all Increased sales and sin taxes and an income tax surcharge could raise nearly $1 billion. BY KEVIN KILEY AND BENJAMIN NIOLET - Staff Writers Published: Wed, Jul. 22, 2009 News & Observer E-Mail After more than a month of strained negotiations about how to raise money to offset a gigantic state budget deficit, lawmakers saw a third path Tuesday morning: Raise the tax burden on everybody. The proposal calls for increases in sales taxes and sin taxes, as well as a two-year surcharge on corporate and individual income taxes for all taxpayers, to raise $990 million. It would put the total budget for this fiscal year at about $18.9 billion. Republicans say that number is exaggerated four-fold. The Democrats' math doesn't include about $1.3 billion in federal stimulus money that will offset some losses in revenue. And Republicans say that the deficit should include the federal dollars and should be measured against last year's spending, which was already sharply curtailed. Either way, Democrats say, painful cuts will be necessary. Proposals include cutting thousands of teacher jobs and raising the average class size, reducing health care benefits for the poor and closing prisons. Supporters of the plan say it will raise the revenue Democratic lawmakers say the state needs to prevent dramatic cuts to education, public safety and health services. "Nobody wants any more taxes, but they also don't want cuts on services," Sen. David Hoyle, a Gastonia Democrat involved in budget negotiations, said last week. "People don't realize the state is in an economic crisis." Brace for fury The plan is sure to anger many state residents, who will face up to an extra dollar in sales tax for every $100 they spend shopping. "This is always the case in government," said Jon Blum of Angier, who bought more than $130 worth of household items at the Super Target in Cary. "They need to learn to do more with less, just like we're having to do." Phil Berger, the Senate Republican leader, said a recession is not the time to raise taxes, especially on revenue streams that have already caused problems. "It looks to me that they've gone back to what they've done in the past, and they're not presenting us with anything new," he said. "And the way they've done it in the past is part of the reason we're in this mess." Republican leaders in both chambers say new taxes in a recession will lead to an even higher unemployment rate, which has hit 11 percent. House and Senate Democrats are expected to discuss the tax proposal in closed sessions today. Even if members agree, negotiators still have to work out which state programs will be cut. House Speaker Joe Hackney said an agreement could be final within a day or two. "We think it's time to get an agreement and finish this off," Hackney said. There seems to be agreement on that point. "We've got to get out of here," Hoyle said."

Boy that's the truth.. we've got to get those tax-crazy democrats out of office!

7/22/2009 11:09:53 AM

And on the Killian calculations, the total expenditures from last year were $20,475,000,000. That however, is not a fair number, since 1.1 billion of that came from non-recurring Stimulus money and an additional $1 billion from the Rainy Day Fund and the Lottery Reserve Fund. Actual tax expenditures are more in the area of $18,375,000,000. We won't have that stimulus money to spend next year, nor will we have the rainy day fund or the Lottery Reserve Fund to spend. Revenue has to be raised in order to meet the demands of core government functions.

[Edited on July 22, 2009 at 11:35 AM. Reason : .]

7/22/2009 11:24:25 AM

How do North Carolina Republicans raise state revenue? Prayer?

7/22/2009 11:26:54 AM

Quote :

"Reducing spending, not raising taxes, is the solution. A reduction of less than 6 percent from current spending is all that is necessary to balance the budget for next year. This is reasonable given that state spending increased an average of 6 percent in each of the past eight years"

This is what I have a problem with. Maybe they should learn that they can't grow every damn year.

7/22/2009 11:30:15 AM

Quote :

"This is what I have a problem with. Maybe they should learn that they can't grow every damn year."

Growth, inflation are the key factors to look at in terms of increase in state expenditures.

7/22/2009 11:34:01 AM

I find it hard to believe that we'd willfully cut 100 million and be fine with the Fed tacking 300 million on top of that. There is something that doesn't add up, and I am certainly not comfortable with taking the North Carolina Medical Society's word for it regarding cuts that effect the North Carolina Medical Society.

Can you provide a more credible explanation for why we'd do something like that?

7/22/2009 11:34:46 AM

Quote :

"This is what I have a problem with. Maybe they should learn that they can't grow every damn year."

Agreed. I like how we as consumers are drilled to have rainy day funds for 6 months at least and preferably a year or more and yet we don't hold any of our leaders at any level accountable to this standard. It should be imperative that our debts (all our debts in ever state) be eliminated and a certain percentage of surplus be set into the budget every year.

7/22/2009 11:37:29 AM

The 3:1 matching dollars are a result of the ARRA which didn't come out until after Perdue issued her budget.

7/22/2009 11:37:43 AM

Well, I can imagine that cut won't stay in so why are we debating it?

7/22/2009 11:44:49 AM

Because they are idiots.

7/22/2009 11:56:14 AM

Quote :

"Growth, inflation are the key factors to look at in terms of increase in state expenditures"

Inflation I can understand, is that not factored into that figure? And growth makes sense too. I'm aware that NC's population continues to grow However, more people = more tax revenue. Is something missing there?

7/22/2009 1:19:42 PM

Related to the comments above, it seems like the N&O found somewhere that some fat could be trimmed: Report finds bloat at UNC

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/higher_education/story/1616489.html

CHAPEL HILL -- UNC-Chapel Hill has too many supervisors, bloated administrative costs and a bureaucracy that hamstrings everything from assigning courses to classrooms to purchasing supplies, a consultant has concluded.

7/22/2009 1:23:07 PM

SHUT EM DOWN

SHUT EM SHUT EM DOWN

7/22/2009 1:38:48 PM

Quote :

"Inflation I can understand, is that not factored into that figure? And growth makes sense too. I'm aware that NC's population continues to grow However, more people = more tax revenue. Is something missing there?"

It depends entirely on who is moving in here.

Growth means more spending on schools, roads, HHS services, etc.

7/22/2009 3:15:56 PM

At least we aren't in the Govenator's state.

7/22/2009 3:27:19 PM

Quote :

"Related to the comments above, it seems like the N&O found somewhere that some fat could be trimmed: Report finds bloat at UNC http://www.newsobserver.com/news/higher_education/story/1616489.html CHAPEL HILL -- UNC-Chapel Hill has too many supervisors, bloated administrative costs and a bureaucracy that hamstrings everything from assigning courses to classrooms to purchasing supplies, a consultant has concluded."

Trust me, NC State would be no better had they hired an outside consultant. UNC was the only one to do this, AFAIK.

7/22/2009 4:37:58 PM

Quote :

"I propose shutting down UNC Chapel hill."

Quote of the year.

7/22/2009 4:42:23 PM

Solution??

http://www.wral.com/news/national_world/national/story/5627448/

Quote :

"Oakland voters pass pot tax to boost city coffers"

7/22/2009 7:50:23 PM

Quote :

"Growth means more spending on schools, roads, HHS services, etc."

That doesn't address that additional people equal additional revenue.

We have a budget deficit, you really can't explain you're way out of that one.

7/22/2009 8:01:20 PM

Well, the government did manage to trim a little fat today since the courts ruled that the "CEO of Schools" was redundant and un-(state)-constitutional.

http://www.wral.com/news/local/politics/story/5633408/

I wonder if we looked, how many redundant government positions we could find to trim.

7/22/2009 8:52:49 PM

Quote :

"That doesn't address that additional people equal additional revenue. We have a budget deficit, you really can't explain you're way out of that one."

What the fuck are you talking about?

Growth is great if you don't have 11% unemployment.

7/23/2009 9:25:39 AM

Sounds like you're for the cuts then, no?

7/23/2009 9:28:47 AM

What the fuck are you talking about?

7/23/2009 9:30:59 AM

Quote :

"I wonder if we looked, how many redundant government positions we could find to trim."

according to some in this thread, it is impossible to cut any more, and we HAVE to raise taxes. there is NO other way.

since nutsmackr knows everything, he must be right.

7/23/2009 9:38:39 AM

You said growth is a key factor regarding the states budget figures related to schools, roads, and health.

Are you telling me that in such a recessive environment with 11% unemployment in our state that we are going to need to keep growing the budget to meet the influx of people coming here for jobs we don't have?

Sounds like cuts are exactly what the doctor ordered.

7/23/2009 9:40:05 AM

can someone explain to me how cutting spending constitutes increasing revenue

because when i buy cheaper laundry detergent and keep the air conditioning at 80

it's not exactly the same as getting a raise

(saving money is great

but you can't meet $75,000 needs with $40,000 buying power

no matter how many compact fluorescents you use)

[Edited on July 23, 2009 at 9:43 AM. Reason : ...]

7/23/2009 9:42:41 AM