http://open.salon.com/blog/jodi_kasten/2009/05/27/equal_rights_for_men

this is a good read, spot on... and its written by a woman

7/23/2009 9:47:26 AM

Spot on ol' chap!

7/23/2009 9:52:26 AM

really?
spot on?
i mean really?

7/23/2009 9:53:54 AM

OUT, DAMN SPOT.

7/23/2009 9:56:31 AM

there's nothing wrong with 'spot on'

7/23/2009 9:57:04 AM

nothing wrong with keen or swell either, but you don't see people working them into every conversation

7/23/2009 9:57:58 AM

i use keen

7/23/2009 9:59:52 AM

I agree with this article. The writer is an "equality feminist", not a "misandry feminist"...

Quote :

" Equal Rights for Men Jodi Kasten May 27, 2009 10:54am There are many, many ways I can think of that women are not yet equal to men. We still only make a fraction of what men do on a per-dollar basis. (76 cents I believe?) We are not allowed into full combat in the military. We are judged on our ability to be mothers and housekeepers before our ability to do our jobs. All of that is real and I am the last person to say there aren’t a million other reasons that women have not yet attained equal status with men. However, I have a bone to pick with my female counterparts. Feminism is all about each woman having the right to choose her own path. We should be allowed to do whatever we want in this life and not be judged by society’s arbitrary sex roles, right? Absolutely. What about men? Do they enjoy this right? Some examples: Bob and Jane are a middle class couple. They have two children. They get an amicable divorce. There is a custody hearing. Both of them are good parents. Both of them want to be the primary custody holder. Who gets the children? Seriously, every single time, unless Jane lights up a crack pipe in the courtroom she will get physical custody. Bob is expected by society to be happy with every other weekend and two weeks in the summer. Don’t believe me? What would you think if you heard that a woman only saw her children every other weekend and a few holidays? I PROMISE you would think, "What did she do to lose her kids?" But, with men, that’s just the way it goes, right? What message does it send to men about what sort of fathers they should be when it's made clear by the courts and their ex-wives that their most important contribution as fathers is a timely child support payment? Even in less weightier arenas men lose out. If you drive by a house with a dying lawn, is your first thought about what a crappy homeowner the WOMAN is who lives there? Doubt it. How about at work? Women can openly talk in the break room about the hot new guy in Receiving. What kind of pigs are the men who talk about the hot new manager who happens to be a woman? If a woman asks a male co-worker out on a date, the worst that can happen is rejection. For a man, the worst that can happen is the loss of his job and a sexual harassment suit. Is that gender equality? Women can wander the world and hug every child they see without suspicion. If a woman gathers the neighborhood children together to organize a community garden, she’s a saint. If a man does it, people wonder if he’s a pedophile. Don’t believe me? Imagine you’re in a toy store and a woman shopping alone comments on what a beautiful little girl you have. You are pleased and flattered. You fill in the woman’s story in your head. She’s probably an overworked mother out to buy toys for a birthday or holiday. What about the middle-aged man wandering that same store alone? Wouldn’t it at least cross your mind that he could be a pervert? Of course it would. It’s completely okay, even applauded, when female writers, comediennes, singers, song writers and talk show hosts make sweeping generalizations about ALL men being stupid, sex driven, lazy assholes. How do we feel about men who say that women are all crazy, hormonal, irrational, ditzy, frigid bitches? Thousands of men in America today are routinely physically abused by women. What shelter do they show up at with their children and the clothes on their backs? What would it take to get you to believe that a six-foot-tall, 200 pound man is abused by his tiny little wife? But, every single one of us has seen a woman who could easily beat her husband’s ass being smacked around by a wiry little Napoleon-like man. What would you think of a man you heard say, "I am afraid of my wife?" What a wussy, right? I must say, I don’t know a single man, NOT ONE, who thinks I am a lesser person because I have a vagina. The men I know see women as mysterious, alluring and even holy. Men are now often the stay-at-home parent. Women have the option of being the sole breadwinner in a way they have never been allowed before in human history. I know my husband would do that for me in a second. People want what they can’t have. Women are sent the message that any man will sleep with them because sex is all they think about. Sex makes them stupid, right? Men are told that women will "hold out on them." We all want the unattainable, what we can’t have. What would you think of a man who told a woman he would give her diamond jewelry if she had sex with him? How is that different than "holding out" on a man because he doesn’t give you jewelry? Or take out the garbage? Or mow the lawn? There should be no "price" on intimacy. We will only have equal rights as women when we FULLY recognize that each person is a human being, regardless of sex, with the same wants, needs and feelings as everyone else. Sure, we’re hooked up differently. But, how can we expect to be treated equally as women when every man is characterized as Homer Simpson? One final thought - I was clothes shopping with my almost-12-year-old daughter the other day. We saw t-shirts that said, "Girl Power!" -- "Girls Rock!" -- "Boys Suck!" -- and my personal favorite "Boys Are Great, Every Girl Should Own One!" I also have an almost-11-year-old boy. If he went to school with a shirt that said "Boy Power!" or "Girls Are Great, Every Boy Should Own One," how long would he last? I guess it just goes without saying that boys can do anything, including staying silent while girls are brought up in a culture that has swung from female empowerment to male bashing. I suppose all I really want to say here is that it is wrong to judge any sex as a whole. Men and women are individuals. We all begin as children and children do what is expected of them. If we expect men to be stupid, sex-crazed frat boys, many will comply. If we expect girls to think "Boys Suck," they will comply. We do NOT have to stand on the backs of men to get ahead. We can go forward together."

[Edited on July 23, 2009 at 10:14 AM. Reason : ]

7/23/2009 10:00:40 AM

Quote :

"Even in less weightier arenas men lose out. If you drive by a house with a dying lawn, is your first thought about what a crappy homeowner the WOMAN is who lives there? Doubt it."

boo hoooooo

Quote :

"What kind of pigs are the men who talk about the hot new manager who happens to be a woman?"

It's official this woman lives on another planet

7/23/2009 10:21:19 AM

Just stop.

7/23/2009 10:22:37 AM

Quote :

"Thousands of men in America today are routinely physically abused by women."

Quote :

"What a wussy, right?"

Yeah they are.

Quote :

"But, how can we expect to be treated equally as women when every man is characterized as Homer Simpson?"

I'll buy this. Watch the average product advertisement aimed at women. The man is a burdensome oaf, usually lumped in with the children as someone who needs maternal care, while the woman is a smart, savvy, and with the help of this product -- oh so effective / efficient / etc. The man becomes an object, a part of the female fantasy, not someone in his own right. How is this any different than chicks in bikinis selling beer in the snow?

7/23/2009 10:33:54 AM

i don't disagree w/ the article, but i'm not livid about it either.

7/23/2009 10:39:58 AM

i rather liked the article.

reading the comments i stumbled upon this gem.

Quote :

"In truth the vast majority of men are sexist assholes who really do think we are inferior because we lack the penis. If you or I were passed out and a man thought he wouldn't get caught, most would rape us with no consideration towards our rights as a human being. Men beat women at such a higher rate than women abuse men that I have to laugh at your shelter example. Most men do not want primary custody of their children. If they fight for custody, it is usually because they want to torture their soon to be ex-wife or extort financial concessions in the divorce. "

This woman clearly cannot acknowledge her own bias. she fails to recognize that it is unfair to judge most men as sexist assholes just as it is unfair to judge most women as incompetent helpless bitches.

It is even amusing that she honestly believes most men would rape her instead of finding help for her.

She goes as far to assume that men do not want custody over their children. Does she believe men are incapable of love for their children? She claims in her comments before and after the quote that she values equality yet assumes out right men have no child rearing instincts. absurd.

The woman is delusional and blinded by her own hate and misandry. sadly this is typical of the majority of feminists.

7/23/2009 11:21:53 AM

like anyone would want to R her.

7/23/2009 11:24:07 AM

^^
Exactly.

7/23/2009 11:27:21 AM

here is one post i found to be really good from the comments section.

Quote :

"The simple truth is when women marched towards equal rights, many honest compassionate men fought to help women. Let's start by a Republican (yeah republican) majority in congress who passed the 14th amendment. Or white male judges on the supreme court who made the decision in roe v wade that a woman's body was her choice. I have noticed many histrionic "lifeboat" feminists stating that their is still much to accomplish. The only proof that they can parade out is the tired old "boogeyman" of rape and sex assault and the wage gap myth. Their have been about 5 scholarly studies proving that the wage gap is nearly entirely due to decisions women make. Now, against this back-drop of the tandem boogeymen of the wage gap myth and rape hysteria, let's roll out the long list of ways men are 2nd class citizens today. Men are 90% of all homeless. Men are 80% of all suicides. Men earn 150,000 fewer bachelor degrees per year then women. Men are 41% of college enrollment nationwide. Men are 37% of college graduates nationwide. Men are 92% of all those murdered. Men are the victim in over 80% of all violent crimes. After gender-neutral spending, the NIH spends 8 of every 10 dollars on women's diseases compared to 2 of 10 dollars on men. Men are about 95% of workplace fatalities (of roughly 5000 annual deaths 4750 are men). 20% of the United Ways budget goes to girls education, and nothing for boys. Of cancers that affect both genders, men are almost twice as likely to get cancer as women. Men live 7 years shorter than women. Women substantially out-vote men. The voter is the politician's boss. Could this be the reason their was a VAWA ahead of protections for children/seniors/the disabled? How much more vulnerable are those groups over able-bodied adult women? Fathers get sole custody about 6% of the time, mothers about 78% of the time (and those stating the father's wanted this because they didn't contest the custody arrangement are turning a blind eye towards those fathers who self-selected themselves out of battling for custody because their lawyers (who should know) never lose custody). Now regarding rape and sex assault. I will concede the point that men are the prime majority of those who commit violent crimes. ~However~, in the USA there are almost 1 million volunteer fire-fighters (i.e. uncompensated). This doesn't include EMT's, FEMA workers, and a host of other areas where people risk their lives to save total strangers for little or no wages. Not only does the number of men who save far Far FAR **FAR** outweigh the numbers of men who harm/kill/rape/abuse but the number of men who save also far outweighs the number of **women** who save. I would like it if society and particularly feminists would stop trying to pass off the entire male gender as inferior. As I have demonstrated, neither gender is inferior--the two genders are simply different. I think it's interesting that when women fought an honest fight to be anything they chose, many many men reached down and pulled women over this barrier. Now that it is men who need a hand up, they are getting ruthlessly kicked in the teeth and laughed at. If a woman can be anything she wants (pilot, attorney, professor, astronaut, governor, president) why do women (including feminists) call a house-husband a bum? The looser the gender roles get for women, the tighter the gender role straight-jacket gets for men. No-fault divorce was ushered in under the watchful nurturance of feminists stating that women could now leave abusive or stagnant men--that this was a freedom from the strict gender role orchestrated to keep women down. But after no-fault (read: man-fault) divorce was passed in 49 states what affect did these millions and millions of divorces have on men? Well, let's see: #1 the divorced father would now have to pay for a house he no longer resided in and a place to live for himself. #2 He would have to pay child support and possibly spousal support. #3 He would be thrust back into the dating scene, meaning he would need even more money (because women don't date penniless men) #4 If lucky enough to marry again the man would now have to pay for two mortages, child support and a new family. What does this mean? The divorce that lead to shattering women's gender roles lead to an INTENSIFYING of the man's gender roles as he now has to work longer hours, toady up more for promotions, possibly be on-call, relocate, etc... to earn the extra money the divorce imposed upon him. Feminists now fight for equal perks (or superior perks) for women (and women only) under the name of "equal rights", but violently fight against anything that would give "equal responsibilities". Men's rights groups and father's rights groups have been fighting for shared parenting laws in many states, because we believe that a child post-divorce should have substantial parenting time with both parents. NOW had an action alert up stating "this was a danger to women". Lucky for MRA's 50% of our numbers are made up of women: paternal grandma's who see how easily mother's lock their sons out of their grandchildren's lives, 2nd wives who witness the incredible hardships that vengeful ex-wives place upon the men they love just because she can (with government approval), and daughters who lost their dad due to BS claims of abuse of some kind. For more information on these very important fights please look at: http://www.glennsacks.com http://www.mensactivism.org http://www.mensnewsdaily.com http://www.angryharry.com"

7/23/2009 11:45:32 AM

^Spot on, ol' chap!

7/23/2009 12:13:41 PM

I want to know what samwise16 thinks about this.

7/23/2009 12:20:55 PM

^^^ none of that effects me besides the whole dieing early thing and the medical research on cancers and such but that still pisses me off.

I do think that comment was fairly well written and not as insane as other arguments i have seen as far as equal rights for me. As for the first article it mostly stereotypes and judging which are cultural things that aren't going to change much so might as well get over them.

and also it has been a while since there was a gender thread brought up. gg

7/23/2009 12:46:55 PM

Very good article.

On a side note, didnt Michael Crittenton write a novel saying this recently (ok maybe several years back but one of his newer ones)?

7/23/2009 1:07:23 PM

Quote :

"none of that effects me besides the whole dieing early thing and the medical research on cancers and such but that still pisses me off. "

it really does effect you.

in 10 years or so when you think life is good, 2 beautiful children, house, 2 or more cars, wife, etc just the best life you can think of, then one day your wife, which you love very much, comes to you and tells you that she isnt happy, now wants a divorce. Because she knows she can take your children from you, kick you out of your own house, take 1/2 of your pension, 401K and all the savings that you worked hard for, make you pay the house note, take 25% of your taxed income in child support, and if you live in an alimony state, take another 10% to 40% of your income for alimony, and leave you with 1 fork, knife, and spoon, a plate and a cup, the clothes that she lets you have, and a source of transportation (more than likely just the old piece of shit you have been using at the deerlease, with rusted floorboards, not your new 4 wheel drive truck, or the Cadillac SUV)

what are you going to do at 32-35 years old making $150k a year, but bringing home about $25k driving a 1981 datsun puckup? (cant get chicks in a 1981 Datsun pickup and $25k a year)

you will sit there and realize how fucked up society is and wonder why/how it can be this way.



all i wanted in my divorce is for me and her to start out on equal grounds. i probably wouldnt had gotten custody of my daughter, but i wanted the opportunity.

/rant

7/23/2009 1:48:24 PM

Is that a pic of your dick in your ex wife's ass in you gallery?

7/23/2009 1:52:14 PM

o.O

7/23/2009 2:11:03 PM

FUCK LAKESIDE

LAKE ON.

7/23/2009 2:12:30 PM

^^^^ o yea i am fully aware of that shit down the road... but it is down the road.

[Edited on July 23, 2009 at 2:14 PM. Reason : better have a beaver and a duck as friends. BECAUSE DUCKS EAT FOR FREE AT SUBWAY]

7/23/2009 2:13:37 PM

no. its the guy she was messing around on me with, i found them on her camera...

[Edited on July 23, 2009 at 2:16 PM. Reason : in response to "Is that a pic of your dick in your ex wife's ass in you gallery?"]

7/23/2009 2:15:19 PM

what was her reason for cheating?

7/23/2009 2:24:06 PM

wasnt happy...

7/23/2009 2:25:00 PM

^^^ if thats true thats fucking awesome.

not that she did that, but that you have evidence of it to remind you.

actually that sucks too.

[Edited on July 23, 2009 at 2:25 PM. Reason : .]

7/23/2009 2:25:27 PM

she got all your shit?

7/23/2009 2:25:52 PM

not really, i fought her in court for alot, and we wernt married for 10 years, so she wasnt entitled to 1/2 of all my shit, just 1/2 the shit we got since we got while we were married...

and the pictures are on here not to remind me, but to remind her...



[Edited on July 23, 2009 at 2:35 PM. Reason : 2]

7/23/2009 2:33:57 PM

you could have won everything because you had evidence of her cheating

she is a TWWer?

7/23/2009 2:36:11 PM

no adultery isnt illegal, and in order for it to be used in court, i would to have had proof that she was fucking someone in front of the kid. or thats the way it is in Texas... the courts dont care whats done behind closed doors...

[Edited on July 23, 2009 at 2:42 PM. Reason : oh and no comment to your question.]

7/23/2009 2:41:12 PM

that means yes


haha

7/23/2009 2:44:40 PM

Quote :

"here is one post i found to be really good from the comments section."

there are lots of flaws in that, but i'm guessing no one cares, since this is Chit Chat and people eat up all the drivel here anyways...

Quote :

"I also have an almost-11-year-old boy. If he went to school with a shirt that said "Boy Power!" or "Girls Are Great, Every Boy Should Own One," how long would he last? I guess it just goes without saying that boys can do anything, including staying silent while girls are brought up in a culture that has swung from female empowerment to male bashing. "

That kind of mentality is tolerated for girls and funny to guys, because we (men) know it's not true, but it doesn't hurt us to let the women have their games I'm a little amused (but not surprised) that some of you put so much weight behind this weak-sauce editorial.

7/23/2009 3:07:39 PM

its Chit Chat, moron

7/23/2009 3:12:36 PM

Longbow_fc, can you pm me her #? Would you mind if I tried to hit that nowadays?

7/23/2009 3:23:37 PM

trust me you dont want to hit that now, she got herpes from her 2nd husband, who is now an ex also...

7/23/2009 3:28:47 PM

707.288.6988

7/23/2009 3:28:57 PM

Is that her cell number? What carrier? I can only mack on bitches who use AT&T so I don't waste my minutes.

7/23/2009 3:31:25 PM

Quote :

"That kind of mentality is tolerated for girls and funny to guys, because we (men) know it's not true, but it doesn't hurt us to let the women have their games I'm a little amused (but not surprised) that some of you put so much weight behind this weak-sauce editorial."

It doesn't hurt guys' mentalities so much. But it fucks up the girls in thinking that bullshit.

7/23/2009 3:31:47 PM

^^^^ I know

I wasnt talking about you though, I sympathize with your plight (although I can't say I know how that must feel... sucks though about the kids and stuff).

7/23/2009 3:32:24 PM

7/23/2009 3:36:27 PM

I was discussing female vs. male infidelity with a friend tonight and I stumbled across this, thought it was interesting:

Quote :

"The income of middle-aged women has posted powerful gains in comparison with men's, by many measures. Women's inflation-adjusted full-time earnings have risen 16.8% in the past 15 years, government statistics show, giving them the financial strength needed to act on midlife rebelliousness. Men's comparable earnings have declined 1.7% for the same period. Nearly one-third of wives now outearn their husbands, and the proportion of women earning more than $100,000 tripled in the past decade. All this gives women a sense of freedom at midlife. "My successful, satisfying career allowed me to be very independent, with a cocky attitude" that sparked to a full-blown midlife crisis, says a California saleswoman in my study. Women also have the skills and resources to make career changes or start their dream businesses at midlife if they wish. The proportion of professional jobs held by women, from engineering, law, medicine and architecture to teaching, writing and computer science, has grown to 54.7% from 51.1% in 1990, the Bureau of Labor Statistics says. Women hold nearly half, or 45.9%, of all executive, managerial and administrative jobs, from CEO slots to food-service management, up from 40.1% in 1990. Women today are better-educated than men, too, earning 58% of all college degrees granted, including 59% of the master's degrees, says the National Center for Education Statistics."

http://tinyurl.com/nsn56o

8/6/2009 8:23:44 PM

^ Cool, so where can I apply for the National Association for the Advancement of Men scholarship? I could use some help paying for my masters.

8/6/2009 9:18:42 PM

I've been saying this shit for years

8/6/2009 9:45:14 PM

Quote :

"Bob and Jane are a middle class couple. They have two children. They get an amicable divorce. There is a custody hearing. Both of them are good parents. Both of them want to be the primary custody holder. Who gets the children? Seriously, every single time, unless Jane lights up a crack pipe in the courtroom she will get physical custody. Bob is expected by society to be happy with every other weekend and two weeks in the summer. Don’t believe me? What would you think if you heard that a woman only saw her children every other weekend and a few holidays? I PROMISE you would think, "What did she do to lose her kids?" But, with men, that’s just the way it goes, right?"

god.
damn.
right.

this is the #1 reason i am terrified to get married and have children. i def want children someday, but i have a bit of acidic personality and i never want to see my kids on the weekend only just b/c my wife realized she couldnt get along with me anymore, or vice versa.

[Edited on August 6, 2009 at 10:27 PM. Reason : a]

8/6/2009 10:26:25 PM

men are dumb

8/6/2009 10:43:47 PM

Quote :

"this is the #1 reason i am terrified to get married and have children. i def want children someday, but i have a bit of acidic personality and i never want to see my kids on the weekend only just b/c my wife realized she couldnt get along with me anymore, or vice versa."

8/6/2009 10:44:48 PM

Family law is a fucked up mess beyond most of your wildest imaginations.

I've spent over 2.5 years and $10,000 in legal expenses fighting for visitation, and FINALLY got to bring my daughter up to NC a couple of weeks ago. She doesn't have any issue with taking $1020/month from me in child support, though (and whenever she figures out that I've been promoted since that amount was set, I expect it to go up to $1400/month or so), even though some federal agency (I believe it was the IRS) did a study showing that, on average, it costs about $800/month to raise a child (which is about what it is in the case of my daughter)--just my supposed share is well over that (the mother is, on paper, liable for an amount, too, but what I pay covers all of my daughter's expenses, plus most or all of her mother's car payment.

I've had to deal with my daughter being hidden from me at a neighbor's house the DAY BEFORE I moved 3000 miles away. I've driven from NC to FL to pick up my daughter when I got home from Iraq and been denied, despite a court order and a visit from the police. I went for 2 months while I was in Iraq with my daughter's mother refusing to answer the phone or even emails (when I started trying to make plans with her to pick my little girl up for visitation after I got home, she just ignored me for 2 months until I insinuated that the next contact she received from me would be from my lawyer). I've had her threaten to skip town and take my daughter with her. I could go on and on, but this gives you an idea of what kind of bullshit women get away with, all the way to the bank (in the car that you bought).

[Edited on August 6, 2009 at 11:01 PM. Reason : Getting married without an ironclad pre-nup is fucking retarded. It's risky business even with it.]

[Edited on August 6, 2009 at 11:01 PM. Reason : ]

[Edited on August 6, 2009 at 11:03 PM. Reason : wow, piss-poor wording on my part. this shit gets me riled up, and I don't do my best wordsmithing.]

8/6/2009 11:00:16 PM