Quote :

"But 200 miles away, in the halls of the N.C. General Assembly, a desire to promote renewable energy has bumped up against a legislative effort to protect the natural beauty of the mountains. Some legislators from mountain counties worry that the beauty of the mountains could be ruined by the construction of commercial wind farms along mountain ridges. State senators are now considering a bill that -- as it's currently written -- would effectively ban any large-scale generation of wind power in the mountains."

Speaking as someone that grew up in Haywood County, this is fucking retarded.

http://www2.journalnow.com/content/2009/jul/20/wind-power-raises-storm/

[Edited on July 23, 2009 at 2:08 PM. Reason : forgot the link]

7/23/2009 1:59:55 PM

I don't get this at all. I find windmills very aesthetically pleasing.

7/23/2009 2:03:15 PM

come on an' raise up

7/23/2009 2:04:12 PM

if it's just a bill then "north carolina to ban big windills" is a pretty misleading thread title.

does it stand a good shot of passing? where did you get your info from? first post is really lacking in detail.

7/23/2009 2:06:43 PM

http://www.bluenc.com/nc-senate-ban-all-wind-turbines-mountains%3F

Here's some discussion from over at BlueNC with some people who are none to happy about this.

Quote :

"Coal Companies or Senators? Submitted by Q5Quint on Sat, 07/04/2009 - 9:20am. I wonder if any of the sponsoring senators know this bill was changed from a pro-wind permitting stance to a anti-wind in the state bill? "

That comment I thought was interesting.

And one other comment of note:

Quote :

"Got a message from Sen. Charlie Albertson Submitted by marciebarnes on Tue, 07/07/2009 - 11:58am. I got this in an email from Sen. Charlie Albertson" "Please be advised that this bill has been changed by the senators from western NC. Senators Snow, Queen & Nesbitt requested the language that removes the western portion of our state. I would recommend that you contact those gentlemen to express your concerns if you wish to have western NC included in the bill, just as I had originally written. Thank you for your interest. Sen. Charlie Albertson" "

Although this discussion was from earlier this month, so it may be a little out of date.

7/23/2009 2:07:40 PM

sarijoul,

forgot the link:
http://www2.journalnow.com/content/2009/jul/20/wind-power-raises-storm/

and unfortunately, I couldn't fit "Legislators in NC General Assembly Considering Bill to Disallow Large Windmills in Appalachia" into the title. So sue me.

[Edited on July 23, 2009 at 2:12 PM. Reason : ``]

7/23/2009 2:10:14 PM

my aunt lives in west virginia and there are signs everywhere bitching about the proposed wind power.

people need to realize that wind power is awesome

7/23/2009 2:12:38 PM

That's what turned Holland into such a shithole.

7/23/2009 2:14:56 PM

It would be cool if this passed and stated that all the money that would have been used to build windmills would be used to fund the progress of nuclear power.

7/23/2009 2:16:05 PM

^^^^a question mark would have sufficed.

7/23/2009 2:17:08 PM

^ lol get off my nuts, son. I know you're just pissy because of the pwnage you recieved in that other thread with an even more misleading title than this one. That's all i gotta say about that!

7/23/2009 2:19:07 PM

Speaking of windmills, I was at the outerbanks last week and ate at the Outer Banks Brewing company in Kill Devil Hills. They installed a windmill on site to offset some of their costs. I just happened to catch a NC Weekend on WUNC about the place a few days before we left and they talked about the windmill saying it took them several years to get the town to allow them the one windmill and that they couldn't add additional windmills. I thought this was a little absurd but I could see where the town might be coming from not wanting big hulking windmills poking up "ruining the view". Well, we went to the Wright Memorial which is at the top of the actual Kill Devil Hill, and you could spot the windmill from there and it looked to be about 3 miles away. But holy shit, you could just barely spot it. From the top of KDH, it didn't look that out of place.

We ate lunch at OBB and even in person it is fairly svelte compared to the hilking beast I had in my mind. You could add 2 more mills in close proximity to the first one and it wouldn't do anything different to the aesthetics, which btw, weren't ruined in the first place. The OBB is across the highway from any sort of view.

Simply ridiculous.

7/23/2009 2:20:58 PM

^^i just get annoyed when people post bills as if they are the law. news agencies do this all the time. (see the story about abortion decision rights for men -- and i called that story out on here as well)

[Edited on July 23, 2009 at 2:22 PM. Reason : .]

7/23/2009 2:21:24 PM

Boone,

Well some of them can make loud noices (woosh woosh woosh), but I hear newer models minimize that impact as well.

But what kills me is that the western part of this state has always been poorer than the peidmont. In 2000, I think median income in Haywood County was around $20,000 while it was around $40,000 in Wake.

If we want to draw industries other than tourism to that neck of the woods, we need to offer them something besides pretty mountains. One good route would be to provide relatively cheap energy. That's actually one major reason you find so many Semiconductor Manufacturers in Oregon--cheap power.

[Edited on July 23, 2009 at 2:25 PM. Reason : ``]

7/23/2009 2:23:06 PM

Quote :

"a legislative effort to protect the natural beauty of the mountains"

haha bullshit, it's all about the residents' property values

7/23/2009 2:26:46 PM

I love how they are worried about the aesthetics of the mountains but have done little to nothing on reigning in the growth in the western part of the state. Arent Million dollar houses cabins on bluffs about as much of an eyesore?

[Edited on July 23, 2009 at 2:29 PM. Reason : ^what he said]

7/23/2009 2:26:57 PM

this has some info about the past with windmills in the mountains and the huge one that used to be in boone:
http://www.lib.unc.edu/blogs/morton/index.php/2009/07/windmill-city/

(also about the ridge protection act of 1983 which prevents any structures higher than 100 ft on the ridge line -- but there is currently an exemption for windmills. also my friends runs that blog as part of her job with the unc library)

[Edited on July 23, 2009 at 2:32 PM. Reason : .]

7/23/2009 2:31:57 PM

This is about protecting the Ridge Law. Remember, Sugar Top was allowed by local ordinances and that is by definition an eyesore.

^Windmills if they are only for personal use and under 100kwh. The proposed changes to S1068 would not ban those types of windmills. It would clarify the Ridge Law.

[Edited on July 23, 2009 at 2:34 PM. Reason : .]

7/23/2009 2:33:18 PM

This month's "Appalachian Voice" has several articles on the history of windmills in NC and the current issue with the bill in the Senate. This article also makes it sound like one state senator introduced a bill that would make it easier to put up wind mills, and another senator quietly inserted an amendment that basically negates the original intent of the bill and makes it harder.

(10MB PDF)
http://appvoices.org/pdfs/voice_2009_03_junejuly.pdf

I've been in Boone for the last 3 weeks, where they just erected a medium sized wind mill in the middle of ASU campus. It's pretty cool - it's on a medium-sized ridgeline (not on a ridge surrounding the town, but on a smaller ridge running through the town), and you can see it sticking up over the hill from lots of locations around town, and from much of the ASU campus. I smiled almost every time I saw it because I thought it was really cool looking. And the top rotates automatically to face the wind, so you get a different view depending on the day. Over 3 weeks, there was only time when I didn't see it spinning.

It's an experimental wind mill and will never pay for itself, but hopefully it will lead to more good research or acceptance or something.
http://www.wataugademocrat.com/2009/0622/0629asuwind.php

here's some views of it from around Boone





http://www.flickr.com/photos/dawnshumate/sets/72157620548062428/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/thebroyhillinn/

7/23/2009 2:34:09 PM

^^according to a commenter in that thread, the ridge protection act was written in reaction to the sugar top building.

7/23/2009 2:38:10 PM

Quote :

"There are a couple of other aspects of Senate Bill 1068 that are also a bit unsettling to me. Remember when then Vice President Dick Cheney created his Energy Task Force? Environmental organizations across the country were up in arms because the people he had chosen to create the administration’s energy policies were — gasp — “Big Energy” players. Was that the pot calling the kettle black? According to the Southern Alliance for Clean Energy, the language for Senate Bill 1068 was written by the Wind Energy Technical Advisory Group. And what about the corporate camel’s nose in the tent? Surely no one has entertained the idea that if they get the OK to build on this minuscule 5 percent of good wind sites it might pave the way for expansion in the future. I remember when I heard about Thomas Berry’s death I looked over some of my favorite quotes of his, and these developments bring this to mind. Berry was talking about the “green” movement, I substituted wind for solar: “... We can’t survive without using what’s around us but we have to do it in such a way that we recognize this mystique of the community of the Earth ... So, even if we use wind energy, without some mystique of the Sun and the Earth, it won’t work.” "

http://www.smokymountainnews.com/issues/07_09/07_22_09/out_naturalist.html

Quote :

"By way of comparison, a typical cell tower can rise to around 34 meters; the Sugar Top building is around 40 meters; a commercial wind turbine’s hub can rise to around twice that height, the blades themselves even higher. Current law allows residential wind turbines, but bars wind farms in places such as national parks or national seashores. The question at hand is whether to allow them on ridge tops. A glance at a wind resource map of the United States shows there are in fact areas in WNC that would be suitable for large-scale power generation. However, if you’re simply looking to go where the wind is, other areas are far better suited. In many of the Plains states, wind farms could be sited in the vast corn and wheat fields with no appreciable aesthetic damage. The same could be said for North Carolina’s coastal waters, large swaths of which are rated from outstanding to superb for energy potential. Windmills sited five miles out to sea would not be visible from the shore. Each location has its unique challenges. Transmission of power from offshore farms is a challenge for the coast. Here in the mountains, the challenges of wind farms are the challenges these mountains have faced for decades; how much change can be wrought before the fundamental nature, the very culture, of the mountains becomes lost? This goes beyond aesthetics. Wind farms require roads to move construction equipment, transmission lines to transport the power, etc. A tipping point where we have, for all practical purposes, a ridge top development is easy to envision. For now, we side with Sens. Nesbitt, Queen and Snow. We should tread very carefully on this issue before lurching ahead with changes to our mountains we may regret. The wind will still be there tomorrow and next year. For now, when it comes to large-scale wind farms, let’s leave it in the bank. "

http://www.citizen-times.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090722/OPINION01/90721026/1006

7/23/2009 2:41:26 PM

Quote :

"^^according to a commenter in that thread, the ridge protection act was written in reaction to the sugar top building."

Thank you Mr. Wikipedia.

7/23/2009 2:42:00 PM

Oh come on, like you knew what Sugar Top was before you started studying about this 45 minutes ago.

7/23/2009 2:47:02 PM

nuts, I actually just googled smokymountain news looking for that opinion piece and could not find it.
thanks.

7/23/2009 2:47:42 PM

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/23/business/energy-environment/23turbine.html?_r=1&emc=eta1

Quote :

"Oh come on, like you knew what Sugar Top was before you started studying about this 45 minutes ago."

continue to bring on the fail. I know quite a bit more about this than most. At least in terms of the reasons against the Wind Turbines in the Mountains.

[Edited on July 23, 2009 at 2:52 PM. Reason : .]

7/23/2009 2:51:56 PM

i told you what my source was. i just read a blog post a friend wrote a couple weeks ago and what's in this thread so i'm sure you're far more informed than i am.

7/23/2009 2:58:51 PM

Thanks for the pictures, agentlion. I haven't been up there in years and had no idea the windmill existed.

They're really, really cool looking. I really don't get why people have a problem with them. Even if people think they're ugly, can they not appreciate them for what they symbolize? Can they at least appreciate that every windmill means a slightly clearer, less smoggy view of the mountains?

7/23/2009 3:54:08 PM

yeah. there were big ass windmills on the coast when i went to toronto last year. it was a cool sight to see.

7/23/2009 3:56:56 PM

California is covered in them.

I think the main complaint there was that it was killing all the condors which is a shame but what are ya gonna do.

7/23/2009 4:03:18 PM

Quote :

"They're really, really cool looking. I really don't get why people have a problem with them. Even if people think they're ugly, can they not appreciate them for what they symbolize? Can they at least appreciate that every windmill means a slightly clearer, less smoggy view of the mountains?"

What's the point of having a clearer view of the mountains, when the tops are cleared for the windmills, access roads are built, transmission lines are built, etc.

Windmills in the mountains to generate negligible energy gains is nothing more than cutting off your nose to spite your face.

7/23/2009 4:12:45 PM

My g/f is from southwestern Pennsylvania. It's old coal country, but they also have a good amount of wind turbines up there. I remember visiting up there with her a few times and seeing a few spots that had an interesting view - in the background, a handful of turbines along a ridgeline; in the foreground, a mountain that had been strip mined for coal. It was really a great juxtaposition.

Personally, I think wind turbines are awesome and are absolutely beautiful.

Quote :

"I think the main complaint there was that it was killing all the condors which is a shame but what are ya gonna do."

There was a big issue about them killing birds at one location: Altamont Pass. Since they discovered that screwup, the industry has been much more selective in their placement of wind farms. I've heard that the average turbine now kills about 1 bird per year. (and I'm pretty sure they never killed many condors. that would have created a bigger outcry. they just killed regular, boring birds.)

[Edited on July 23, 2009 at 4:20 PM. Reason : ]

7/23/2009 4:14:47 PM

Quote :

"What's the point of having a clearer view of the mountains, when the tops are cleared for the windmills, access roads are built, transmission lines are built, etc."

Trees don't grow back? I know with windmill pollution they certainly do.

7/23/2009 4:36:01 PM

^if there was a powerplant nearby pumping out CO2 they'd grow back even faster.

I suppose its a matter of taste, but I think sticking some big ass metal windmills in the middle of wilderness is an eyesore.

When I was on Maui last year they had a line of about 25 windmills on the far side of one of the mountains. It wasn't a very nice sight. And half the time I only saw a few of them rotating.

[Edited on July 23, 2009 at 4:47 PM. Reason : k]

7/23/2009 4:45:56 PM

Quote :

"^if there was a powerplant nearby pumping out CO2 they'd grow back even faster."

Well, you know, if the trees can get around that whole acid rain thing.

7/23/2009 4:50:06 PM

Quote :

"There was a big issue about them killing birds at one location: Altamont Pass. Since they discovered that screwup, the industry has been much more selective in their placement of wind farms. I've heard that the average turbine now kills about 1 bird per year. (and I'm pretty sure they never killed many condors. that would have created a bigger outcry. they just killed regular, boring birds.)"

This was in the 80's so Im not really sure about the facts. A bird would have to be pretty dumb to get hit by one of these things.

7/23/2009 4:54:52 PM

well, birds are pretty dumb animals.

7/23/2009 5:00:21 PM

Quote :

" Trees don't grow back? I know with windmill pollution they certainly do."

You can't have trees on access roads, you can't have trees under transmission lines, and you sure as hell can't have trees growing up into the wind turbines.

Did you even bother to think before you made that idiotic post?

7/23/2009 5:07:54 PM

Quote :

"Well, you know, if the trees can get around that whole acid rain thing."

Good thing we have these nifty scrubbers on the smokestacks to remove those chemicals and leave in the one beneficial to plant life.

7/23/2009 6:14:07 PM

Quote :

"I suppose its a matter of taste, but I think sticking some big ass metal windmills in the middle of wilderness is an eyesore."

I suppose you don't think mountains with no tops are an eye sore, though


or gigantic hotels at the peaks of mountains


i mean, as long as it's in the name of "economic development" or "cheap energy" (only sometimes, obviously) then it's cool, right?

7/23/2009 7:02:28 PM

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

7/23/2009 7:06:47 PM

Quote :

"That's what turned Holland into such a shithole."

rofl

7/23/2009 7:33:10 PM

Isn't there some sort of federal mandate to have some goodly percentage of our energy needs met by renewable energy sources by the year whateverwhatever?

Seems like the feds could do their preservation of state rights thing and withhold all kinds of federal money if they don't get on board with this kind of thing - or some other comparable renewable energy source.

All that aside. I thought I saw a map that showed that the only sustainable place for windmills was right along the coast. I never focused on the mountain region, they could have been a good region also.

7/23/2009 8:08:33 PM

Hey Joe....I must have forgotten that I'm a coal lover....?

7/23/2009 8:16:32 PM

I see agentlion hasn't paid attention to the tread.

^^North Carolina does have a plan for renewable energy. Nothing in 1068 would prevent offshore windmills.

7/23/2009 8:46:43 PM

^^ it's more of an "I'm just saying....."

seems like a lot of the people who get their panties in a bunch over such "massive eyesores" like windmills are the same ones who will defend mountaintop removal to get to cheap coal or building ass-ugly buildings if they bring in tourists

7/23/2009 8:55:19 PM

No one supports Sugartop; hence the damn Ridge Law. You would know that if you were paying attention to the thread.

7/23/2009 9:08:50 PM

Quote :

" You can't have trees on access roads, you can't have trees under transmission lines, and you sure as hell can't have trees growing up into the wind turbines. Did you even bother to think before you made that idiotic post? "

Did I think, are you fucking retarded? Just how big is this access road? Is it so big that trees can't be planted along side that will grow over the road? It isn't like roads don't snake through the mountains now. You can only see them when they are massive and hang off the side of the ridges. And we already have power lines running across the mountains, so no reason to tie some windmills into the grid. You are making a really shitty argument.

7/23/2009 10:37:33 PM

Dear God almighty. Just when you think you've seen all the stupid possible, you have to up yourself.

7/23/2009 10:39:17 PM

I've won if that is the best you can do.

7/23/2009 10:52:49 PM

You realize transmission lines coming from various ridge tops is completely different then congregated transmission lines right? And you do realize that transmission lines coming from these windmills is completely different then your average power lines.

Your entire argument is based from a knee jerk position and you haven't bothered to investigate the matter.

7/23/2009 11:03:28 PM