Quote :

"For more than three decades Starbucks has been building a brand, spreading its name around the globe. Now the company is setting aside that corporate image as it tries to create a store with the vibe of an independent neighborhood cafe."

Quote :

"What do consumers think of the new cafe so far? Neighborhood resident Penny Lane says she likes the sophisticated, urban style. But Eric Fleish, who was visiting from Boston says, "It's insidious for Starbucks to masquerade — to trick the people who are specifically boycotting Starbucks into going into their place anyway.""

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=107006775

7/25/2009 5:28:44 PM

i too listen to NPR

i think it's ridiculous that people still think Starbucks is evil and trying to trick people into being their customers. could it be that they just want to create a product and experience that people will enjoy and be willing to spend money on? if expanding upon their product offering includes locations that are more unique than their typical presence, i say go for it

7/25/2009 5:42:14 PM

what about people who try to shop local for the purpose of supporting local economy?

i don't think starbucks are evil any more than any giant corporation is evil that replaces mom and pop shops... which is to say starbucks is relatively evil.

[Edited on July 25, 2009 at 5:46 PM. Reason : to be fair to starbucks, it's not their fault they can make so much money on their business model]

7/25/2009 5:45:07 PM

Quote :

"could it be that they just want to create a product and experience that people will enjoy and be willing to spend money on?"

No.... They want to create a product and experience that nearly every person will have to enjoy and be willing to spend too much money on because there are no other choices.

7/25/2009 5:46:25 PM

I don't get that whole support local thing. Individuals from towns open up franchises with their capital and run the place with their business sense. Sure some money is paid to Starbux but most is left with the owner in the small town.

7/25/2009 5:47:32 PM

Our Most Common Inquiries

Does Starbucks franchise?
Starbucks does not franchise operations and has no plans to franchise in the foreseeable future.

In North America, the majority of our stores are Company-operated. As an exception, Starbucks may enter into licensing arrangements with companies who provide access to real estate which would otherwise be unavailable such as airport locations, national grocery chains, major food services corporations, college and university campuses and hospitals.

[Edited on July 25, 2009 at 5:48 PM. Reason : http://www.starbucks.com/customer/faq_qanda.asp?name=common]

7/25/2009 5:48:42 PM

simonn: in Seattle, Starbucks is local

qntmfred: I just thought it was an interesting news item, especially in the current down economy
(and Eric Fleish sounds like a whiny, pretentious twit. Is Toyota tricking people by making Lexus?)

[Edited on July 25, 2009 at 5:52 PM. Reason : 6pm]

7/25/2009 5:48:50 PM

there's like 5 independent coffee shops within 10 minutes of where i live. plus several other corporate brand coffee shops. there's plenty of competition in the coffee shop marketplace. certainly moreso than in other more important industries

[Edited on July 25, 2009 at 5:49 PM. Reason : .]

7/25/2009 5:48:56 PM

Quote :

"in Seattle, Starbucks is local"

that's a good point, but i'm sure they have plans to open more of these if this one is successful.

all this said, this is a great idea on starbucks' part.

7/25/2009 5:54:01 PM

They're not getting TARP money so they must be doing something better than the fucked companies.

7/25/2009 5:54:50 PM

we talk about them masking their name like this, but there is no news of starbucks selling alcohol now??

7/25/2009 5:55:12 PM

Quote :

"there's plenty of competition in the coffee shop marketplace."

Not if Starbucks gets their way...

(By the way, I'm dissatisfied with my current satellite radio service, but that's okay right?...I can always choose some other different satellite radio service providing company, right? I mean, our government wouldn't allow a monopoly, would it? )

7/25/2009 6:01:01 PM

just for the record, coffee shops and satellite radio are very different things.

7/25/2009 6:03:43 PM

^^well duh. if you owned a business wouldn't it be swell if you could corner a significant portion of your market as well? i mean, isn't that how capitalism works? so i guess the real question is, why do you hate freedom?

[Edited on July 25, 2009 at 6:05 PM. Reason : willy nilly always has a stick up his dick about government conspiracy crap. i </3 him]

7/25/2009 6:04:28 PM

Quote :

"in Seattle, Starbucks is local"

i hate starbucks. i try to make a point to go to any other coffee shop.

(But not Seattle's Best. that's a bad joke)

7/25/2009 6:05:18 PM

just out of curiosity what do you hate about them

7/25/2009 6:06:49 PM

^
High prices
Over-dominance of the market
Over-dominance of popular culture
Participation in stupid music sales bullshit

Quote :

"wouldn't it be swell if you could corner a significant portion of your market as well? i mean, isn't that how capitalism works?"

Most certainly not. It's how one particular implementation works, but capitalism in general doesn't imply the "hyper-capitalist" maximization of profits, property, and market control.

Are you suggesting that small companies, (some of which have been around for decades,) that don't have aspirations of global, national, or even state dominance, are somehow doing capitalism wrong?

Quote :

"so i guess the real question is, why do you hate freedom?"

Actually, you're the one apparently supporting damaging market practices that reduce choice, consumer control, culture, environmental quality and basically paves the way to corrupt lobbyist-controlling corporate oligopolies. So... You're the one that hates freedom.

Quote :

"willy nilly always has a stick up his dick about government conspiracy crap. i </3 him"

Oh noes... Someone who is wrong on the internet doesn't like me.

7/25/2009 6:17:28 PM

It's insidious for GMC to masquerade — to trick the people who are specifically boycotting Chevy into buying their cars anyway.

7/25/2009 6:19:37 PM

Quote :

"No.... They want to create a product and experience that nearly every person will have to enjoy and be willing to spend too much money on because there are no other choices."

it's capitalism...as a true-to-form "the government is always ass-raping the individual and/or business owners and it gets my panties in a wad" libertarian, you should be happy that such an opportunity exists, for a company to be so loved that they consistently beat out all competitors by choice of the people

not a single person will "have" to "enjoy" it...if you don't like the company, don't buy the products...it's incredibly simple, both in idea and in practice...it is the most basic form of free choice and liberty!

Quote :

"what about people who try to shop local for the purpose of supporting local economy?"

they grow coffee beans in your neighborhood? unless they do, you ARE supporting the local economy by buying from a place that EMPLOYS local people...if you REALLY want to support the local economy, don't buy anything online that you can get from a store in your community

7/25/2009 6:22:34 PM

^
It's not just local labor and products, it's local ownership, as well

Quote :

"as a true-to-form "the government is always ass-raping the individual and/or business owners and it gets my panties in a wad" libertarian, you should be happy that such an opportunity exists, for a company to be so loved that they consistently beat out all competitors by choice of the people"

That's only the most vocal camp of libertarians. I'm not in that camp.
I actually live in the real world and understand that capitalism can't be "given a blank check."

Quote :

"not a single person will "have" to "enjoy" it...if you don't like the company, don't buy the products"

I was talking about if they had a monopoly, and you wanted to spend money at a coffee shop, then you'd have to spend it there -- because they'd be the only coffee shop.

[Edited on July 25, 2009 at 6:26 PM. Reason : ]

7/25/2009 6:25:28 PM

haha, okay, so starbucks is evil why, again? why do they not deserve the freedom to offer products for people to CHOOSE over a competitor?

also, since the government has nothing to do with starbucks as a monopoly (it's not like they're a utility or anything), capitalism says that if the people WANT another coffee shop, they'll get one

[Edited on July 25, 2009 at 6:28 PM. Reason : .]

7/25/2009 6:27:17 PM

^
Do you have a problem with wal-mart?

7/25/2009 6:28:32 PM

not especially, no...should i? do they, too, rape the average consumer? i don't FEEL like i've been raped, but i'd hate to think i had and didn't know it

7/25/2009 6:30:14 PM

quod erat demonstrandum...

If you don't understand what's wrong with monopolies or wal-mart, then you won't get why starbucks is irresponsible.

[Edited on July 25, 2009 at 6:32 PM. Reason : ]

7/25/2009 6:30:55 PM

well, fuck...you whipped out the latin, so i guess you win

i swear, you have GOT to be the most pompous and self-important douchebag to grace this site

you mean to say that if i don't AGREE with the reasons why you think walmart or starbucks are evil, then i don't understand...you should really say what you mean instead of being pretentious...it gets old

[Edited on July 25, 2009 at 6:33 PM. Reason : .]

7/25/2009 6:31:53 PM

Quote :

"i swear, you have GOT to be the most pompous and self-important douchebag to grace this site"

If you weren't someone that often gets called exactly that, maybe I'd give a fuck about your opinion....

7/25/2009 6:33:40 PM

Quote :

"maybe I'd give a fuck about your opinion...."

it makes me LOL IRL to think of you caring about anyone's opinion that doesn't spew the same "enlightened" rhetoric that you do

i'll tell you what...you go ahead and boycott both starbucks AND walmart and see who gives a rat's ass about your choice...you are no one, i hate to tell you

i for one don't go to starbucks often because i can't justify shelling out that kind of cash for something i'm going to piss out an hour later, but that's just me...apparently, there are enough people that like the offerings, the atmosphere, and think the products are worth the price to keep starbucks in business...your opinion won't change their minds, nor should it

[Edited on July 25, 2009 at 6:38 PM. Reason : .]

7/25/2009 6:35:05 PM

Quote :

"just out of curiosity what do you hate about them"

hate is a strong word. i dont truly hate them. but i lament the homogenizing of America into one large suburban mall of corporate hegemony.

Starbucks is just the symptom. the American mindset and culture is the cause. we get what we ask for.

Quote :

"you go ahead and boycott both starbucks AND walmart and see who gives a rat's ass about your choice...you are no one, i hate to tell you"

i dont boycott either, but i avoid them whenever possible.

and actually, the grassroots movement to support local businesses instead of megachains is growing faster than you might expect. and it probably has something to do with these places having to close a bunch of stores and scale back on planned expansion.

(yeah, i know, and before all the economists here get all uppity and start quoting shit, note that i said "something to do with" and not "everything to do with")





[Edited on July 25, 2009 at 6:48 PM. Reason : ]

7/25/2009 6:42:45 PM

Quote :

"the homogenizing of america into one large suburban mall of corporate hegemony."

i take no issue with that...i do, however, take issue with the hypocrites that like to rant and rave about the freedom and rights of individuals and business owners but then proceed to say that those rights and freedoms should only be protected when they AGREE with the outcome

libertarians, as a rule, are just as big of hypocritical douchebags as they like to accuse other of being

Quote :

"i dont boycott either, but i avoid them whenever possible."

ditto...i don't refuse to go to walmart, but i usually go to places like target first (whose operating standards i agree with more)...that said, i'm heading over to wally world a bit later today because i want to get some things that would cost me $50+ more at target...they're ALL in the business of making money and one is only worse than another by a small degree

[Edited on July 25, 2009 at 6:50 PM. Reason : .]

7/25/2009 6:48:39 PM

libertarians? Wut? you dont make any damn sense.

you're just trying to be a contrarian.




[Edited on July 25, 2009 at 6:53 PM. Reason : ]

7/25/2009 6:52:15 PM

if you were poor you might not have the same opinion of wal-mart

[Edited on July 25, 2009 at 7:06 PM. Reason : .]

7/25/2009 6:53:27 PM

Quote :

"libertarians? Wut? you dont make any damn sense. you're just trying to be a contrarian."

no, i'm specifically pointing out that Willy Nilly's bullshit opinion is hypocritical and parochial

Quote :

"if you were poor you might not have the same opinion as wal-mart"

this is true...but we, as enlightened and educated people realize that the opinion of the poor don't matter

7/25/2009 6:55:48 PM

I am so glad soap box has come to chit chat once again.

I like their coffee more than any one else. To be honest.
The only company that I have ever liked equal to Starbucks is Dilworth Coffee and this little mom and pop operation has now become a smaller franchise that reminds me of the beginnings of the gargantuan mammoth known as Starbucks. If you had a business that caught on like wild fire, would you seriously sit back and say, "Nah man, I was never hoping to be known across the us." I do believe at one point, Starbucks was the mom and pop down the street. Think about it people.

I am not a fan of deceit but I do appreciate they are trying to get away from such a cooperate feel. If you don't like Starbucks just leave. Plain and simple.

7/25/2009 7:06:20 PM

cup-a-joe makes a much better latte than starbucks, and has better food

7/25/2009 7:07:27 PM

7/25/2009 7:22:11 PM

And it's not like they're hiding the fact that it's really them. It IS all over the news...

7/25/2009 7:33:35 PM

I'm reading "Pour Your Heart Into It" by Howard Schultz

Now, I'm sure the book is biased as hell, but it's kind of changed my view on things. I always assumed that these little mom and pop coffee bars had been around forever and starbucks comes along one day and stomps them all out. To hear Schultz tell it, he practically invented the industry in America.

feel free to tell me why this is wrong. I'd like to get another viewpoint

Quote :

"hate is a strong word. i dont truly hate them. but i lament the homogenizing of America into one large suburban mall of corporate hegemony. Starbucks is just the symptom. the American mindset and culture is the cause. we get what we ask for."

ironically enough, schultz set out to recreate the italian espresso bar

7/25/2009 7:44:34 PM

i'll be honest, i prefer starbucks to the mom and pop kind of places here in boone. for one, the coffee is generally better and more competitively priced, and you don't have to wade through art-scene hipster shit to get to it.

7/25/2009 8:13:45 PM

i try to stay away from starbucks

but if i do drink it, it does always sneak up on me

i drink it

and then i'm minding my own business

and THEN






(hershey squirts)

7/25/2009 8:14:31 PM

^ lol. best post in this whole thread. hahaha

7/25/2009 8:20:21 PM

All other thoughts aside, this could be a very profitable move for them. Starbucks has become as bad as fast food joints around the world. In cities like Beijing or Rome, cities with ancient histories and that, in some corners, still have the ancient feel, a giant STARBUCKS sign really ruins the atmosphere. It might help American tourists when they want their coffee, but that's not the best reason to plop one down in the middle of a beautiful street. I think if they start trying to make their stores into quaint coffee shops, more power to them, that's a smart move. I do think, however, that they should still place the name outside (on the window, scrolled onto a metal hanging sign or a wood post over the door, what have you). It's not trickery that they're going for, but that could turn away more customers. Eh.

I think the corporate coffee chains aren't bad necessarily. They have elements in them that are purely for profit. Hell, Caribou Coffee was making over 50% profit on muffins for craps sake. But there will always be people that buy it. And I think one problem with the the chain image is that it becomes a personal identity issue; some people will go to Starbucks because of a brand name, some will not go to Starbucks because they don't want that label on their person---like the people that do not get anything Apple because it's "hip" or popular. They stay away from it precisely because other people go to it. So there will always be that problem. This is Starbucks' attempt at getting a different demographic.

However, I do also think that supporting local is great. You may walk into the store thinking you'll help out a local business during the economy as you treat yourself to a drink, but then find out it's Starbucks. Of course, on that note, you can just turn around and walk to the next shop. Not that hard. And you can't beat some of the local tea or coffee shop atmospheres (Quotations, Essence of Thyme in Brevard NC; Old Europe in Asheville NC come to mind). I think that's why they may be trying to go back to it (punchmonk). Although, agreed with fredbot3000 that, as far as some mom-and-pop stores are concerned, the art-hipster scene is annoying---unless you look and act like them, some places don't really want you in their store. Sometimes I feel like Cup-A-Joe is like that, which makes me sad.

Eh. Pros and cons to both.
But I agree with khcadwal regardless. Those drinks do = the hershey squirts!!

7/25/2009 8:36:50 PM

words, tl;dr, yo homes

7/25/2009 8:37:49 PM

Quote :

"Hell, Caribou Coffee was making over 50% profit on muffins for craps sake"

i may be wrong about this, but i think 50%+ margins on food products is extremely common.

7/25/2009 8:39:33 PM

Quote :

"drinks do = the hershey squirts!!"

7/25/2009 8:46:10 PM

i thought left eye was dead

7/25/2009 8:49:57 PM

Quote :

"(hershey squirts)"

What the hell are you drinking from them, castor oil and cocoa powder?

7/25/2009 8:52:23 PM

I'm probably wrong in thinking that was a lot. I was just very surprised by them raking in so much on a bakery item when their primary product is coffee (as their name highlights lol). Of course, their daily coffees would be a higher margin--it was about 1.69, but cost about... .43 if I remember right? That was a while back.

Not dead, just became really disenchanted with ChitChat/TWW and forgot about it for a while.


^ when your body doesn't have drinks like that for a while, shit happens.

[Edited on July 25, 2009 at 8:56 PM. Reason : ^]

7/25/2009 8:54:58 PM

lol

7/25/2009 8:59:04 PM

Quote :

"High prices"

I've yet to find a deal on lattes anywhere. They are all about 3.20/3.60/4.20 for sml. There we're 5 different coffee shops within 3 miles of my house in Cary - SBUX, Its a Grind, Crema, Mr Toads, and Sunrise (?). Mr Toads had the better espresso but also had the higher prices. They are now out of business.

Quote :

"Over-dominance of the market"

Again, the 5 I mentioned are just the ones I've been to. I can drive an extra mile or so and add 3 more to that list though I haven't been to them yet. This is without including McDs or Dunkin Donuts that are in my area also.

Quote :

"Over-dominance of popular culture"

Mr Toads and Crema had the hipster culture. Sunrise was more of a friendly come hang out and use our wireless and relax. It's a Grind is a lot like SBUX.

Quote :

"Participation in stupid music sales bullshit"

Shouldn't be a problem for someone that doesn't frequent their establishment.

7/25/2009 8:59:49 PM

Quote :

"i may be wrong about this, but i think 50%+ margins on food products is extremely common."

yeah, that's prolly the low end of average

7/25/2009 9:12:20 PM