http://www.news14.com/content/local_news/triangle/613256/man-punched-in-face-at-town-hall-on-health-care-reform/Default.aspx

Quote :

"DURHAM – An altercation interrupted a town hall meeting on national health care reform Thursday night in Durham. U.S. Rep. David Price, D-North Carolina, was the guest at N.C. Central's auditorium, where about 800 showed up to hear more on the topic. About an hour into the town hall, a scuffle broke out in the back rows of the balcony. A man, who declined to be identified, said another man punched him in the face. Police did escort a man out of the building. The victim said he plans to press charges. In addition to the crowd inside, another 200 people outside were unable to get in. Tensions ran high on both sides of the meeting. "I think it's important to keep the free market going and to not let the government take over – what is it?, one-seventh of our economy is health care-related?" opponent Donna Gregory said. "I would definitely go with health care reform because I'm tired of"

I think since the other thread's title is entirely disproved, it is time to no longer discuss it under that supposition. I mean the discussion about whether meeting with people & small groups individually or over the phone is as valid as meeting with a big group where a few can yell down the many was a valid discussion, but now that the whole not doing a town hall thing has shown to be incorrect, there is no need to perpetuate that thread's primary statement for anyone glancing by or only reading the first post to see if they're interested in participating in the thread.

Also, punching in the face... way to escalate things to violence NC.


It makes me think of this earlier Brad Miller incident.

http://pamshouseblend.com/diary/12467/

Quote :

"A protester at Rep. Brad Miller's "town hall" meeting in Raleigh, NC compares Obama to Hitler and says Democratic reform legislation will make people "55 and older will not be allowed to have hip replacements" and other surgeries. She also echoes erroneous claims that the legislation will allow government "grim reapers" (Sarah Palin's alleged "death panels") will tell the elderly to "take a pill and just die." She also bemoans the fact that she "was accosted by a woman who was Jewish."

As someone who was not a strong health care form advocate, and someone who is always up for a good protest, I did not find myself pulled into the health care reform debate until I had to side against the people taking protests inside the buildings & shouting down the chance for discussion for everyone else there. While I'm not all that pro-health care reform, I am very anti-violence & shouting down real discussion with lies like death panels.

8/13/2009 11:21:09 PM

Quote :

""I would definitely go with health care reform because I'm tired of my insurance premiums going up, but yet my care is going down," supporter Jennifer Evans said. "

Just want to make sure we post some incorrect statements from the other side too, Sup.

Politicians cannot guarantee that this lady's health care quality will improve once they are in charge of it. And we still don't know how this new gov't health plan will be paid for, so there is no guarantee that her costs will decrease either. I'm already hearing rumblings from democrats about a middle-class tax hike.

From her demeanor, this woman equates health reform only with the democrat's plan. But the truth is you can be both against the democrat's plan and still in favor of health reform...as are many people.

Democrats keep trying to make us believe that if you're not for their plan, you're against any type of change.

As for the woman in the Brad Miller video, I agree her sign and statements are awkward...but she is correct in a sense. There is no way you can add health insurance to 47 million people without massive rationing.

I give props to Price for having the meeting... but it's still time to send ol' Mr. Stimulus Bill, Tax n Trade, Socialist Medicine-man back to the classroom.

8/13/2009 11:45:42 PM

but what about Brad Miller...he has good outside range for a big

8/13/2009 11:49:23 PM

Quote :

"From her demeanor, this woman equates health reform only with the democrat's plan. But the truth is you can be both against the democrat's plan and still in favor of health reform...as are many people."

I've heard this, but I haven't seen or heard any proposals from the Repubs ... (God knows they've had 12 yrs) ....

8/14/2009 12:14:34 AM

Anyone have a good link that breaks down the current proposal in an objective manner? I'm out of the loop on what exactly it's proposing.

Personally I really like Australia's system. Everyone has access to the public system that pays upwards of 80% of your medical costs. You can get private insurance to cover the costs not covered by the public system. You can also choose to get private insurance to use aside from the public system or pay out of pocket if you want things done faster or at a certain place. And the government regulates what the insurance companies are allowed to get away with so you don't end up with some of the crazy claim denials we see in America.

I also think Japan has an interesting system where they use private insurance, but the government dictates how much every single procedure costs and no one is denied coverage. If you are unemployed, retired, etc, you simply get your health insurance through your county. I don't think that could ever work in the States though because the amount of insane bureaucracy required to price everything every three years I think it is is mind boggling. Only the Japanese could manage to pull off that level of bureaucracy

8/14/2009 12:53:15 AM

Quote :

"Also, punching in the face... way to escalate things to violence NC."

I was there. This did not happen. It was more or less one of these: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrtSvCPaygs

It was complete with a hysterical female friend of the "punched" man shrieking in the most annoying possible faux-angry voice "He's been hit in the FACE!!!!!"

This whole thing was an unproductive joke.

The 4 "panelists" (including David Price) took up the first 1:05 of the 1:45 "town hall meeting" giving speeches, and watching as the dipshit 'moderator' used every time-consuming trick in the book to avoid starting with the questions, including straining to recognize every single elected official or former elected official in attendance. Maybe they didn't stop to think that we don't care that former one-time state senator so-and-so is standing in the back.

All of the questions were stupid. The answers were only prepackaged dodges, and there was a lot of - worthy middle-school level drama between members of the audience.

The one interesting part was when a man asked "So...Mr. _____, who were the opponents of this bill that you invited to be on the panel, who unfortunately were not able to make it tonight?" The guy outright admitted he had not asked any.

They have a right to create a bully pulpit and I don't mind that. What I mind was that they so heavily belabored the point that they were being "non-partisan" and even-handed. And that the SEANC (sponsors of the event) took no political sides and are only about helping the state employees. It's the dishonesty that grates me, not the political hackery.

And I counted....12 total questions were asked by the audience in a "town hall meeting" that ran from 645 to just past 830.

[Edited on August 14, 2009 at 1:59 AM. Reason : a]

8/14/2009 1:55:07 AM

Quote :

"Quote : "A protester at Rep. Brad Miller's "town hall" meeting in Raleigh, NC compares Obama to Hitler and says Democratic reform legislation will make people "55 and older will not be allowed to have hip replacements" and other surgeries. She also echoes erroneous claims that the legislation will allow government "grim reapers" (Sarah Palin's alleged "death panels") will tell the elderly to "take a pill and just die." She also bemoans the fact that she "was accosted by a woman who was Jewish.""

sounds like it was written by the N&O

awesome how they're so good at reporting they can just declare this and that false

8/14/2009 2:02:46 AM

uhh....?

8/14/2009 7:01:21 AM

^^^ great post

8/14/2009 8:22:33 AM

Quote :

"I've heard this, but I haven't seen or heard any proposals from the Repubs ... (God knows they've had 12 yrs) ...."

THIS IS THE PROBELM! The media is simply NOT COVERING the other side. There is a bill FROM REPUBLICANS that focuses on tort reform, moving from the employee provided health care system to an individualized health care system (like most other types of insurances), and in general getting the government out of insurance commerce allowing more competition.

Instead of debating these topics, the Democrats are trying to RAM THRU UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE. Just stop and think for 2 seconds......its happening right infront of your eyes.

8/14/2009 8:31:28 AM

Quote :

"The media is simply NOT COVERING the other side"

Are you kidding? The right wing media is more interested in rage and vitriol than they are about talking solutions. I've been tuning in and out of conservative voices for years now and I just get pissed off at all the yelling, hate, and "we're all going to hell-ism" that gets spewed from these guys. I tolerate Neal Boortz but other than pushing his fair tax (which he hasn't done much of lately) I never hear conservative solutions, its all warnings about what the left wants to do.

As someone who sits near the middle, it simply isn't enough to say to me "umm, don't change anything, we like it this way" or "if you change something, the world will explode".

I'm all about one of them offering up a discussion about why their plan is better.

8/14/2009 8:55:32 AM

^What does any of that have to do with the fact that BoBo dosent know there are alternatives out there besides Obamacare?

If you listen to radio, or maybe Fox News, you might know there are alternatives being offered right now. If you listen to NBC, CBS, ABC, or most newspapers, you'd have no idea there was any alternative. BoBo, like most Americans, is being led down the path that Obamacare is the only answer....its simply not true. And the Dem's want Obamacare pushed thru before he can realize there are alternatives.

8/14/2009 9:17:27 AM

I think it's obvious your reading comprehension is about as shitty as it gets.

Did you see what I quoted?

Did you read anything I wrote?

I tune into conservative voices.

I DON'T HEAR SOLUTIONS OTHER THAN THE FREE MARKET RULES ALL

or

THE DEMOCRATS ARE GOING TO KILL YOUR GRANDMOTHER

8/14/2009 10:44:44 AM

so, you listen to shitty voices. Doesn't change the fact that there are people offering solutions. Hell, people on this website are offering alternative solutions.

8/14/2009 10:48:27 AM

^^ Okay, then try something other than conservative talk radio, which is pretty vacuous. There are plenty of alternative proposals which have been floated. In fact, if you read real hard, you might even find some around here.

Try some of the more thoughtful conservative & libertarian think tanks and blogs, for example. (Yes, I know, it does involve reading, scourge of all scourges...)

[Edited on August 14, 2009 at 10:49 AM. Reason : ^]

8/14/2009 10:49:27 AM

Both of you are stupid as fuck.

Do you even follow the thread?

Did you read what I quoted?

I didn't say

I TRIED TO DIG THROUGH EVERY PIECE OF CONSERVATIVE MEDIA I COULD FIND AND DIDN'T FIND ANY PLANS

Bigun talked about "the media", you know the MSM that everyone rails on, not covering conservative ideas. What he meant was that liberal rags aren't doing it. Guess what, conservatives aren't either. And the point I'm highlighting in purposefully inelegant terms is this is part of the problem with the current conservative status quo. I'm a centrist leaning right yearning (no homo) for a level headed voice that can talk about conservative ideals without popping veins in their head and purposefully being extreme about whatever the left has come up with. It simply doesn't do the discussion any favors by saying grandma is going in front of the death panel to decide her fate. Ok, if that is a footnote on a broader survey of the problems with the liberal plan in addition to ways the free market can fix the current free market problems, no big deal.

8/14/2009 11:02:12 AM

Quote :

"Are you kidding? The right wing media is more interested in rage and vitriol than they are about talking solutions."

Quote :

"I did not find myself pulled into the health care reform debate until I had to side against the people taking protests inside the buildings & shouting down the chance for discussion for everyone else there."

People act like this rage is purely manufactured. You don't manufacture anger like this. I've said it in other threads but I'll say it again, people are tired of calling their congressmen, writing letters, and signing petitions only to have them utterly ignored by their representatives. Politicians, as a whole, do not respond to facts or information or suggestions from their constituents. They respond to energy. Perhaps if they weren't so dismissive of constituents, it wouldn't have risen to this level.

Let's not pretend that one side or the other has a monopoly on asinine behavior, the left is just taken aback that the right finally has mounted protests of this energy, something they generally had the corner on. Fox is the only station I saw that covered the assault of a anti-healthcare protester by a group of SEIU members.


The perspective from the left is that this is driven by some secret racism, or by dark capitalist forces. I mean seriously, the press shits itself every time someone accuses the President of socialism (an exaggeration, but not wholly inaccurate) but barely covers the Speaker of the House comparing these protectors to Nazis. It seems unfathomable to these people that individual citizens aren't simply looking to suck off their benevolent government teat and the only reason must be that the master-teat belongs to a black man! Oh noes!

Give me a break.

8/14/2009 11:06:20 AM

Quote :

"Anyone have a good link that breaks down the current proposal in an objective manner? I'm out of the loop on what exactly it's proposing."

No, because the proposals are still pretty nebulous and no-one has actually looked into the mechanics of the bill, just painted a broad picture of what they want it to accomplish.

Quote :

"I DON'T HEAR SOLUTIONS OTHER THAN THE FREE MARKET RULES ALL"

The free market would function under a single-payer health care plan anyway. If a patient were desperate enough, they would either leave the country or they would attempt to bribe a health care provider. The only difference is that the inherent inefficiencies involved would increase the cost of that bribe.


The free market cannot be suppressed. Even in the Soviet Union at its peak, market forces (that being the inherent selfish pursuits of all human beings) were at play.


Part of the problem is also that the proponents of the current reform bill, whatever it may wind up being, have failed to prove in any substantial way that it will actually accomplish any of the goals they have officially set out. So when the option is doing nothing or making the situation worse, I'll take doing nothing.

[Edited on August 14, 2009 at 11:16 AM. Reason : Besides, all this anger is good shit. Fucking democracy in action.]

8/14/2009 11:13:09 AM

Quote :

"Did you read what I quoted? I didn't say I TRIED TO DIG THROUGH EVERY PIECE OF CONSERVATIVE MEDIA I COULD FIND AND DIDN'T FIND ANY PLANS"

No, what you said was, "RAWR RAWR RAWR ALL I DID WAS CHERRYPICK MY ARGUMENT FROM RIGHT-WING TALK RADIO AND FIND MY CONCLUSIONS UNSATISFACTORY THEREFORE NO ALTERNATIVE PLAN EXISTS RAWR RAWR RAWR EVERYONE IS STUPID AS FUCK BUT ME."

Which, generally when you conclude your argument as such, is a prime indicator that you're completely fucking wrong. Again.

Your argument amounts to reducing the spectrum of "right-wing media" down to "talk radio" (and maybe the Moonie-owned Washington Times), then declaring it a wasteland and summarily concluding no alternative exists. Which is retarded. Again, when's the last time you heard any serious policy proposals floated out of talk radio? Given your limited data set, one might conclude that no proposals ever come from the (economic) right.

[Edited on August 14, 2009 at 11:24 AM. Reason : .]

8/14/2009 11:18:30 AM

^^^^

#1. if you look at both my posts you will realize that I never used the words "conservative" or "liberal" Do you often make-up things that arent there?

#2. If the average American dosent know there are alternatives out there besides Obamacare, they are uninformed. They are uninformed because of two reasons...A) They dont care to be informed and dont keep up with current events B) They want to be informed but aren't. They pay attention to the news, but its not covered properly.

BoBo, assuming hes in the soapbox because he actually cares to be informed, falls into the latter category. Therefore, going on this assumption, the media is letting BoBo down. Agree or diagree?

[Edited on August 14, 2009 at 11:19 AM. Reason : .]

8/14/2009 11:19:06 AM

bigun20:

Quote :

"There is a bill FROM REPUBLICANS that focuses on tort reform, moving from the employee provided health care system to an individualized health care system (like most other types of insurances), and in general getting the government out of insurance commerce allowing more competition. BoBo, assuming hes in the soapbox because he actually cares to be informed, falls into the latter category. Therefore, going on this assumption, the media is letting BoBo down. Agree or diagree? "

Maybe the problem is not the media, or people being uninformed, maybe the problem is the proposals. All I see is more of the same - "Use the invisible hand to wave the freemarket wand and all of our ills will be cured."

The problems are enormous: 46 million uninsured, insurance companies cherry-picking clients through "existing conditions" clauses, the most expensive healthcare system in the world, insurance companies looking for loopholes so they won't have to pay, etc. We are the only OECD country (other than South Africa) that doesn't have plan to provide healthcare to all of its citizens and all the Repubs got is "Tort Reform" and deregulation? They will have to do better than that.

I think that these windowdressing "proposals" only show that the Repubs don't want to change anything (which would explain doing nothing for the 8 yrs they had in power). Maybe that is the reason they aren't taken seriously. I'm not sure that the driving force for public health should be someone else's profit. That's right Bigun20, maybe the Republican proposals just suck, and are not meant to be taken seriously.

8/14/2009 12:15:10 PM

Quote :

"That's right Bigun20, maybe the Republican proposals just suck, and are not meant to be taken seriously."

Or maybe you're just not intellectually serious and have made up your mind before the discussion has started. But hey, who's counting?

Also, a word on your "existing conditions" complaint - if your house is burning down right now an you called up State Farm to get homeowner's insurance, what exactly do you think they'd do, other than laugh you right off the line? And why exactly is that? Because what you're asking for is no longer insurance. It's for someone else to pay for your misfortune after the fact.

Let's review: insurance, as it was originally conceived, was a policy in which an insurer agrees to pay for an unforseen future consequence. The insured thus pays the insurer for protection against this event. If the event has already occurred, it's no longer "insurance."

Your argument may be that it's now impossible for a person to pay for care if they have not been insured against a condition prior to it surfacing, but that's a different argument than a question of "insurance." This is a fundamental question of how we pay for care. And guess what? It's unlikely to get any cheaper with the government paying for it. It still costs a lot.

[Edited on August 14, 2009 at 12:36 PM. Reason : .]

8/14/2009 12:35:32 PM

And, interestingly enough, here's an op-ed in today's WSJ about a possible market solution for how to handle the issue of insuring those with pre-existing conditions. But shhhhh - don't tell Fail Boat!

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203609204574316172512242220.html

8/14/2009 12:54:07 PM

Thank you DrSteve. I think you've hit on the reason that there has to be some kind of public option.

Insurance is meant to spread the risk fairly. The pool should include everyone, so the risk is spread around. "Pre-existing" is only a definition comes into play when you change insurance companies. As a patient, you have a "medical condition". If you change your job then you are out in the cold, and the insurance companies have a way to push the odds in their favor. Nothing has changed with you (the patient), only with the insurance companies. Now you can't get insurance. The very reason that you paid for all that insurance becomes moot through nothing but a job change, and now all of the odds are in the insurance company's favor. I think that's part of the reason that the biggest cause of bankruptcies is medial bills.

[Edited on August 14, 2009 at 12:57 PM. Reason : *~<]Bob]

8/14/2009 12:54:13 PM

You've identified the real issue without noticing - the problem is that health insurance is tied to employers. One of the "market" proposals being floated is finding ways to break that association, which is responsible for many of the problems identified, including lack of portability (lose your job, lose your insurance), pre-existing coverage issues, and lack of competition. (In other words, you don't pick your insurer - your employer does. Which means if they do a crappy job, you're still stuck with them unless you can prevail upon your HR director to change plans.)

One way to do this is to equalize the tax treatment of employer-based and individual plans. Another is to open up competition for insurers across state lines. Again, these are not foreign concepts - they have been out there being advocated for awhile. But even the "public option" is not going to solve the inherent issue of coverage being tied to employers, which is one of the more fundamental structural problems of health insurance in America.

8/14/2009 12:59:42 PM

Quote :

"Your argument amounts to reducing the spectrum of "right-wing media" down to "talk radio" (and maybe the Moonie-owned Washington Times), then declaring it a wasteland and summarily concluding no alternative exists. Which is retarded. Again, when's the last time you heard any serious policy proposals floated out of talk radio? Given your limited data set, one might conclude that no proposals ever come from the (economic) right."

You're absolutely right on the bolded part because both sides are too plugged in to soundbites to seek out the WSJ, the FT, and other of these outlets. But on the italicized part, no. Again, I'll remind you this started with biguns crying about the left and ultimately the MSM and I put WSJ out of arms reach for the majority in regard to MSM. Your average citizen is simply not reading the WSJ for his policy information.

Quote :

"Again, when's the last time you heard any serious policy proposals floated out of talk radio?"

Exactly my point. These people shitting bricks at town halls didn't read heritage, Cato, and the WSJ and decide they are pissed off. They got stirred up by the loudest voices saying nothing at all from the right, from Savage, to Rush, to FNC.

And one last time, since you seem to be a little challenge on this

[Edited on August 14, 2009 at 1:36 PM. Reason : .]

8/14/2009 1:08:20 PM

Quote :

""Pre-existing" is only a definition comes into play when you change insurance companies. As a patient, you have a "medical condition". If you change your job then you are out in the cold, and the insurance companies have a way to push the odds in their favor. Nothing has changed with you (the patient), only with the insurance companies. Now you can't get insurance. The very reason that you paid for all that insurance becomes moot through nothing but a job change, and now all of the odds are in the insurance company's favor. I think that's part of the reason that the biggest cause of bankruptcies is medial bills."

This I think is a side effect of our society confusing health insurance with health care and what we have is really not insurance in a strict sense. Let's say for example, that you smash your car into a pole on the last day of your coverage with GEICO, you pay your deductable and send the car into the shop. Even if the very next day, you switch to Allstate or some other insurance company, you rightfully expect GEICO to pay the full costs of the repairs for your vehicle until the repairs are complete, even if it takes their shop 3 months to do it. Allstate doesn't pay for it, and while your premium may be higher, they don't deny you because they aren't on the hook for your last accident. So should it be with your health insurance if you are actually buying insurance. If you have Aetna, and while on Aetna get hit with a car, all of your treatments stemming from that accident should be covered by Aetna, no matter if they drop you the very next day and BCBS excludes that pre-existing condition. Not only would this provide an incentive for Aetna not to drop you (payouts with no additional premiums) but it would make moving between companies easier too.

Of course, there's plenty of problems with an idea like this, namely deciding what does and doesn't stem from a particular incident, but that's really no worse than fighting over pre-existing conditions now.

8/14/2009 1:35:20 PM

Quote :

"Your average citizen is simply not reading the WSJ for his policy information."

You're shifting the goalposts, now. First it was that it's not out there in the "right-wing" end of the media, which it is. Now the problem is, it's not in the section of the "right-wing media" that the proles (which apparently also include yourself, per your own post) are listening to.

Quote :

"Exactly my point. These people shitting bricks at town halls didn't read heritage, Cato, and the WSJ and decide they are pissed off. They got stirred up by the loudest voices saying nothing at all from the right, from Savage, to Rush, to FNC."

So, great, because the proles throwing a tantrum at the Potemkin "town hall" meetings are getting fired up by FoxNews & talk radio, that's all that exists out there as far as the debate goes? Perhaps you'd agree with me that there's a correlation here:

1) Talk radio + Fox get an audience by being incendiary rather than being measured
2) Incensed people go and yell loudly at town hall forums
3) People yelling loudly at town hall forums tends to generate news coverage

This does not preclude the existence of other, measured voices out there providing for an opposition. They just don't tend to get certain people all riled up who tend to then dominate coverage of the opposition.

I mean, your main argument seems to be that talk radio is sensationalist garbage. Which is sooooo 1990's.

Quote :

"And one last time, since you seem to be a little challenge on this"

What is this, a Zen koan or something?

8/14/2009 1:42:32 PM

even senators and congressmen are repeating this death panel stuff. there is definitely some willful misinformation from people who know better. and there are certainly calmer voices offering legitimates criticisms (from the left and the right). but the right seems to be throwing everything at making health care reform fail at all costs to damage obama and the democrats politically. i'm not saying that the press necessarily has those same motivations.

8/14/2009 1:45:55 PM

It's not just when you change jobs, it's when you change insurance companies. The "public option" will not change.

I do agree that there is not enough good information floating around. Here's the quick Wiki breakdown:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_reform_in_the_United_States

8/14/2009 1:49:08 PM

Quote :

"even senators and congressmen are repeating this death panel stuff. there is definitely some willful misinformation from people who know better."

Who, specifically, has been saying this who fits this category? The only one I know of is Sarah Palin, who I think we all agree is a complete populist moron. Of course, I'm not precluding the existence of other elected morons - I'm just curious as to who else has been repeating that whopper.

Quote :

"but the right seems to be throwing everything at making health care reform fail at all costs to damage obama and the democrats politically. i'm not saying that the press necessarily has those same motivations."

But come on - you can't tell me Obama hasn't been employing a somewhat similar tactic in equating opposition to his plan to advocacy of the status quo - which is completely bogus, and is almost poisoning the well.

8/14/2009 1:52:36 PM

Quote :

"You're shifting the goalposts, now. First it was that it's not out there in the "right-wing" end of the media"

No Chaos, I'm not. And I'm not telling you for the third (or we up to 4 now?) time what the deal is.

8/14/2009 2:05:37 PM

^^sen. grassley for one at least said "We should not have a government program that determines whether you’re going to pull the plug on grandma." and he's on the senate finance committee.

8/14/2009 2:11:34 PM

Quote :

"No Chaos, I'm not. And I'm not telling you for the third (or we up to 4 now?) time what the deal is."

Quote :

"I mean, your main argument seems to be that talk radio is sensationalist garbage. Which is sooooo 1990's."

Quote :

"sen. grassley for one at least said "We should not have a government program that determines whether you’re going to pull the plug on grandma." and he's on the senate finance committee."

Fair enough. But Grassley's a jackass. I say this as someone who had so suffer under his rule for the better part of a decade.

[Edited on August 14, 2009 at 2:13 PM. Reason : .]

8/14/2009 2:12:04 PM

Quote :

"Maybe the problem is not the media, or people being uninformed, maybe the problem is the proposals. All I see is more of the same"

Jeez, it's like you don't even bother to read what other people have said to this...

Quote :

"46 million uninsured"

many of them illegal aliens, on medicare, or who don't want insurance.

Quote :

"It's not just when you change jobs, it's when you change insurance companies. The "public option" will not change."

Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha. If you believe that, then I've got a bridge I'd like to sell you.

8/14/2009 4:41:21 PM

Quote :

"No, because the proposals are still pretty nebulous and no-one has actually looked into the mechanics of the bill, just painted a broad picture of what they want it to accomplish."

Somehow that makes the rabble even more to me.

8/15/2009 11:14:48 AM

"Health Care Forum with Congressman David Price"
http://www.new.facebook.com/home.php#/event.php?eid=129747772470

That event is happening tomorrow. Agree or disagree with Congressman Price on the need for health care reform, no one can claim (as a previous thread tried to) that he is hiding from the public on this issue... I mean there was even a thread about how he showed up at a tdubbers work place to take questions. I believe it is open to the public (although I think it'll have a student focus) if anyone wants to go.

9/1/2009 3:11:22 PM

Quote :

"no one can claim (as a previous thread tried to) that he is hiding from the public on this issue... "

Well let's see...

He's announcing these meetings the day before they happen.
The last one was sponsored by a labor union, this one is sponsored by UNC Young Democrats.
It's being held in a UNC campus library...where mostly UNC students will attend.

He may not be out and out hiding from voters, but he is definitely making it difficult for those who disagree with him.

Maybe while he is there, he can pick out his new UNC office since we are going to send Price Packing in '10!!

9/2/2009 11:07:22 AM

Quote :

"He's announcing these meetings the day before they happen."

I know that isn't true for the event I just posted, I don't think that has been true for some of the other public events (but I can't so for sure about all of them).

As for having an event in Chapel Hill his district is all of Orange, all of Durham, & just a part of Chatham & part of Wake. The first event listed in this thread was in Durham. I don't know where the other events have been. For example I don't know where the company that sparky works at that Price toured & then held a public forum is located.

Some other event info I found that he's been involved with (this doesn't appear to be a complete list, for example it doesn't include today's event):

Quote :

" JOIN CONGRESSMAN PRICE IN A TELEPHONE TOWN HALL MEETING ON HEALTH CARE August 26, 2009 Washington, D.C. - U.S. Rep. David Price will continue the discussion on health insurance reform with Triangle residents by holding telephone town hall meetings. The next available meeting will take place on Thursday, September 3rd at 7:30pm. >> Read More PRICE, NC LEADERS PAY TRIBUTE TO SEN. KENNEDY August 26, 2009 U.S. Rep. Price joined other North Carolina leaders in paying tribute to the late Sen. Edward Kennedy. In an interview with NBC-17, Price said Kennedy and his brothers inspired him and many others of his generation to devote themselves to public service. >> Read More NC LEADERS DISCUSS HEALTH REFORM ON UNC-TV August 24, 2009 Rep. Price participated in a live discussion on health insurance reform on UNC-TV today. He was joined by Sen. Richard Burr and Reps. Mel Watt, Bob Etheridge and Brad Miller. You can watch the 90-minute program online at UNC-TV’s website. The participants took questions from North Carolinians via telephone, email, and Facebook. >> Read More PRICE DISCUSSES HEALTH REFORM ON WRAL’S HEADLINE SATURDAY August 15, 2009 U.S. Rep. David Price was the guest on the latest edition of WRAL’s Headline Saturday, the CBS affiliate’s political affairs show. Along with The News & Observer’s executive editor John Drescher and political reporter/columnist Rob Christensen, he discussed proposals in Congress to reform the health insurance system. The program was hosted by WRAL anchor David Crabtree. >> Read More PRICE TO DISCUSS HEALTH REFORM WITH STATE EMPLOYEES August 13, 2009 The State Employees Association of North Carolina (SEANC) has invited Congressman David Price to participate in a town hall meeting on health insurance reform in Durham tonight. The event will provide an opportunity for Rep. Price to discuss the details of the reform proposal before the House of Representatives with Triangle residents. >> Read More"

[Edited on September 2, 2009 at 11:34 AM. Reason : .]

9/2/2009 11:20:19 AM

Quote :

"How do we get to a competitive market? The tax deduction for employer-provided group insurance, which has nearly destroyed the individual insurance market, is a central culprit. If we don't have the will to remove it, the deduction could be structured to enhance competition and the right to future insurance. We could restrict the tax deduction to individual, portable, long-term insurance and to the high-deductible plans that people choose with their own money."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203609204574316172512242220.html

That seems like a great way to cause large amounts of people to lose insurance, as they are dropped by their employer plans who won't keep them when they don't get a tax break. And what reason at that point would a typical middle class otherwise healthy person (who was paying into the system before) have to get insurance? It seems a sure way, as the "risk pools" shrink, to raise costs in the short-term, with potentially longer-term increases in costs and care.

Insurance is not like buying an iPod. It's not something people want, you don't know how important it is until you need it.

9/2/2009 12:08:16 PM

Quote :

"we are going to send Price Packing in '10!!"

I doubt that. With Lawson against the GOP that is running & no libertarian wind behind that guy's sails, he'll just have the same old GOP backers for 2010 that lose to Congressman Price every 2 years. And in 2012 there is very little chance either because there is no way Obama & therefore many other democrats in the district are going to lose Orange & Durham county during that election which make up most of district 4. Your best bet is 2016. But even then, why invest so much effort, energy, & money to try to put a conservative in place to represent the most liberal district in the state?

Quote :

"There is another Republican candidate who has declared his intent to contest Price in NC-04. While he was kind enough to seek my endorsement, we fundamentally disagree on the value of the Federal Reserve and its communist, debt-based money. Plank 5 of the Communist Manifesto details how we have been turned us into Wall Street’s debt slaves, and until we correctly diagnose our underlying economic illness, the mad scientists in Washington and on Wall Street are simply making things worse. His defense of this unsustainable system is understandable, as he is a currency trader previously employed by Societe Generale — the French bank that profited handsomely from your (and my) bailing out AIG. Caveat emptor."

-Lawson

9/2/2009 12:16:26 PM

http://my.barackobama.com/page/event/detail/healthinsurancereformnow/gpfkrl

Quote :

"Time: Thursday, September 3 from 5:00 PM - 7:00 PM Host: Lindsay Siler Location: The Progress Energy Performing Arts Center Plaza (Raleigh, NC) 2 East South Street Raleigh, NC 27601 Maps: * Google Maps * MapQuest * Yahoo! Maps Directions: Located on East South Street between South Salisbury and South Wilmington in downtown Raleigh."

David Price will be attending & speaking at this public event tomorrow, and this event has been scheduled for quite some time. I don't know his entire schedule, but I think I've given examples of events in Chapel Hill, Durham, & Raleigh as well as telephone & tv events taking questions from people online through e-mail & facebook & through other methods, so I stand by my claim that "agree or disagree with Congressman Price on the need for health care reform, no one can claim (as a previous thread tried to) that he is hiding from the public on this issue."

9/2/2009 1:01:04 PM

Quote :

"That seems like a great way to cause large amounts of people to lose insurance, as they are dropped by their employer plans who won't keep them when they don't get a tax break. And what reason at that point would a typical middle class otherwise healthy person (who was paying into the system before) have to get insurance? It seems a sure way, as the "risk pools" shrink, to raise costs in the short-term, with potentially longer-term increases in costs and care."

Despite your later claim, many people will still want insurance. And these people will, as you say, maybe lose their insurance from the company. But, if the company drops them, it will have to do something else to offset that, such as increase their pay. These people then take this extra pay and shop for insurance. Now we have an actual market at work! holy shit!

9/2/2009 6:23:44 PM

Quote :

"I doubt that."

PRice got booted out in '94 due in part to his support of Clinton's tax-hike on the middle class. This time around, Price has voted for the unpopular stimulus bill, the unpopular Crap n Trade tax and he is supporting the failing congressional takeover of the health care system.

The NC GOP also has a new leader who is determined to return repubs to office.

And true, his district includes the liberal bastions of Chapel Hill & Durham. But the other half is the north part of Wake county and the Cary, Apex, Fuquay-Varina areas... perhaps not as liberal.

You also have a lot of very unhappy voters who are very disappointed with Obama.

If the GOP runs someone not as "scary" to voters as a libertarian, David Price could be in a real fight.

9/2/2009 11:37:03 PM

Quote :

"If the GOP runs someone not as "scary" to voters as a libertarian, David Price could be in a real fight."

All the claims I've heard from libertarians are that Lawson did well (no where close to winning, but still decent for a liberal district) precisely because he was something different than the traditional GOP candidate. I think running your traditional conservative GOP candidate guarantees there will be no fight even if some republicans find him less scary.

9/3/2009 12:16:16 AM

Quote :

" Despite your later claim, many people will still want insurance. And these people will, as you say, maybe lose their insurance from the company. But, if the company drops them, it will have to do something else to offset that, such as increase their pay. These people then take this extra pay and shop for insurance. Now we have an actual market at work! holy shit! "

haha

You’re in a fantasy land if you think employers will increase workers’ pay, or that people will take their extra pay and buy insurance instead of a 60” plasma TV.

People will pocket that money, then rely on emergency room care when the time comes.

9/3/2009 12:26:56 AM

Quote :

"You’re in a fantasy land if you think employers will increase workers’ pay"

Some won't. others will. Or, others will keep offering insurance. The people will choose whoever offers the best mix. Why do you think that centuries of economic experience will suddenly be different?

Quote :

"or that people will take their extra pay and buy insurance instead of a 60” plasma TV."

Some will do that. Others won't. I'd bet that the idiots among us who would do that probably don't have all that great of a job anyway, so they probably don't have great insurance in the first place, if any.

Quote :

"People will pocket that money, then rely on emergency room care when the time comes."

You mean like those idiots do now? I wonder how we fix that... Oh, right, quit forcing hospitals to treat people who don't pay...

9/3/2009 9:45:06 AM

Quote :

"All the claims I've heard from libertarians are that Lawson did well "

63% to 37% may be a good showing for a libertarian, but terrible for a republican. If they want to beat Price, the GOP should learn its lesson and run a strong conservative republican.

9/3/2009 10:36:36 AM

In the previous election I just read that Price had 65%, which is a few points higher than he had against that scary libertarian candidate. Maybe its just you that finds libertarians scary?

[Edited on September 3, 2009 at 2:19 PM. Reason : .]

9/3/2009 2:16:14 PM

Quote :

"CONGRESSMAN PRICE TO HOLD TELEPHONE TOWN HALL MEETINGS ON HEALTH CARE September 3, 2009 Washington, D.C. - U.S. Rep. David Price is continuing the discussion on health insurance reform with Triangle residents by holding telephone town hall meetings. In addition to last week's telephone town hall event, he will hold another meeting tonight. Registration for the event closed this morning at 10am. Audio from the town hall meetings will be available on this website at a later date. "

Price will be in Raleigh today at that public event I mentioned before, and it looks like he has another telephone town hall coming up soon.

9/3/2009 2:59:54 PM