...for a total newb.

I've been looking through craigslist for a used SV650, and I can't help but notice all the similarly-priced sport 600s and 750s. A later-model GSXR-750, specifically, has caught my eye.

Would purchasing said bike necessarily lead to my death, or could a level-headed, cautious newbie learn on it?

8/24/2009 1:34:59 PM

You can learn on a superbike. It has been done, probably too much honestly. They don't produce full power at idle or anything, but there's very little room for error with that much power as a beginner. I don't suggest it being the very first bike you ever sit on and ride, but if you go to an MSF course and pass it, you could then go ride a Hayabusa successfully if you weren't stupid with it (At least I feel that I could have). But keep in mind, you're going to scare the shit out of yourself if you take this path.

An SV-650 is just fine for a beginner. A 600cc sportbike is still just fine for a beginner IMO because they aren't making tons of low RPM power, but you'd probably be better off with the SV-650 for a few months at least. If you have an understanding of the power curve on the motorcycle and good throttle, brake and clutch control then you can handle most sportbikes just fine. They aren't heavy or difficult to maneuver or anything.

You could probably handle the 750cc just fine as well, but I don't suggest it as a first bike because now you're getting into the power to weight territory where just going WOT in 1st gear is going to make the bike wheelie pretty much on command. A newer 600cc sportbike will do this at higher RPM as well, but it's harder to do accidentally than it is with the more powerful 750cc and up sportbikes. This tendency to lift the front wheel under power can get dangerous for a very new rider rather quickly and it is going to scare you enough that you probably won't enjoy the bike as much as a slightly slower bike (Which still wont feel slow, AT ALL).

Also consider that a newer 600cc sportbike should run the 1/4 mile in the mid 10's at 130+mph. That is significantly quicker than pretty much any car you could buy within reason. Don't think for 1 second that a 600cc 4 cylinder sportbike is going to disappoint you. Even that SV-650 should have enough power to make your hair stand up the first few times you get on it (They'll run an 11, although it's really high like an 11.99, bone stock). Think about it, the SV-650 has 72hp (The fuel injected models, 2003+) and the bike with me on it is still probably well under 600lbs (The bike weighs a bit under 400lbs empty I believe), which would give us 8.3lbs/hp. Then consider a new Corvette Z06 (Which everyone in here thinks is the worst car ever designed for some reason) with a curb weight of 3132 and a claimed output of 505hp, which yields 6.2lbs/hp. My Miata, by comparison, has a value around 20lbs/hp.

The end point? Even a "slow" bike has massive power when you begin to consider the weight being moved. You'll be very happy with a 2003+ fuel injected SV-650 as a beginner, the newer 600cc sportbikes will definitely scare you at first and the 750cc is going to be too much for you to really enjoy IMO.

8/24/2009 1:40:56 PM

Thanks for the response.

I guess what I'm worried about is buyers-remorse six months after buying the SV650. I'm shocked that my wife is ok with getting a bike at all, and I'm fairly certain buying another bike won't be in the cards for years after the first purchase.

Is there any risk of getting bored with the SV650? I'm not a thrill-seeker by any measure, so I imagine it's entirely possible it will be all the bike I'll ever want-- I just have no frame of reference at all. I've never read anyone say "SV650" without including the word "beginner" in the same sentence, though, so it obviously lacks something.

8/24/2009 2:06:52 PM

Well, the suspension is where they really seem to have saved money when Suzuki made that bike. It's got a rather soft suspension setup in stock form, but it's not particularly bad or anything and some basic changes will improve it significantly. Not only beginners ride them, although they are very good beginner bikes. If you get a 250, it's going to get old quickly IMO. But one reason I think the SV-650 is such a good choice is that it offers a solid amount of power and yet it's still something a beginner can handle. That way it wont get old too quickly like you're saying. It's really at the upper end of power as far as beginner bikes go, so don't think you're going to feel like its slow.

What is the quickest accelerating car you've ever driven or been in? Unless it was something ridiculous, the SV-650 will probably feel quicker. Keep in mind that you're outside, you aren't strapped into anything, etc. The sensation of acceleration on a bike is different than it is in a car and at first it's probably going to feel extremely fast to you. I mean, like ridiculously so.

TheDuke866 has an SV-650 btw and he's had significantly faster bikes before it (I'm pretty sure he had a GSX-R750 at one point actually). A 2007 SV-650S was my first bike and I wouldn't mind another to be honest. I really like them, especially if it's going to be for daily use.

But yes, if you like massive amounts of power it will probably get old after a while. Notice how well they retain value though, it wont be that difficult to sell it later and buy something else when/if you "outgrow it". If you buy it and ride it for 6 months you can then sell it for what you bought it for or even make money if you get a good deal and move up to something else like a GSX-R600 or 750.

8/24/2009 2:10:39 PM

sv650 will be a great initial investment; like saab said, it's not the most powerful bike ever, but wil probably surprise the shit out of you have you never been on a bike before.


btw, a scooter parked sideways in the road will result in instant death...




like masturbating successfully, it's all in the wrist.

[Edited on August 24, 2009 at 2:39 PM. Reason : -]

8/24/2009 2:37:12 PM

Quote :

"I guess what I'm worried about is buyers-remorse six months after buying the SV650"

you won't outlearn that bike in 6 months.
In fact, around town v-twin would be a lot more fun than the inline fours, even if the numbers pale in comparison on paper. Plus, once you learn to ride, they are clutchless wheelie machines (once you relocate the oil pickup unit on some ) if you are gonna ride in the country on the wide open straight NC roads, then inline four may be a bit of fun.

i've seen people start on inline four race replicas. i also seen people flip em over backwards when the powerband hit and they panic'd (sp?).

8/24/2009 2:41:27 PM

I've been riding for 3 months so far, and I've found that suspension and riding position are more difficult to deal with than power. I've ridden both a GS500 and a GS850 and the 500 was more difficult to control at speed than the 850 w/ the more upright position and shaft drive.

I don't think you'll kill yourself with a gsxr750, but you'll probably have a higher learning curve and drop it more times than you would a less-sporting model.

In any case, bike deals come along very frequently, increasingly as winter approaches. I highly recommend against buying a "nice" bike as your first one. Get something cheap that runs, and once you've learned how to thash it, upgrade. You might surprise yourself and decide sportbikes are not your cup of tea.

8/24/2009 2:42:08 PM

Quote :

"i also seen people flip em over backwards when the powerband hit and they panic'd (sp?)."

My cousin did this last week apparently.....


With a heavy ass Harley Davidson.....


In my uncle's front yard....






(Definitely don't grab the throttle like a n00b. )

8/24/2009 2:57:31 PM

hope you've got some sick health insurance

8/24/2009 3:48:30 PM

I've already fallen victim to holding the gas like a noob. Luckily it was at 15 mph on a 25 year old bike.

So I guess I'll stick with the SV650, which leads to another question: buying new isn't out of the question; any opinions regarding the Gladius v. the SV650?

8/24/2009 3:54:56 PM

ER-6N got better reviews

but seriously, a "total newb" should not be buying new

8/24/2009 3:58:34 PM

buy an SV for <$2500, and enjoy

8/24/2009 4:30:56 PM

According to http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/810606.PDF




... So, basically anything over 500cc. But, looks like you're safe once you get over 1,500 cc



And also, don't ride on weekends.

8/24/2009 4:37:26 PM

I've been riding on the street for about 10 years, and I'm now on my 4th motorcycle. It's a 1st-gen, naked SV650. You will not get bored with it in 6 months. It's a tremendous amount of motorcycle for the money, and really about as much as you should buy for a first bike, in my opinion (yes, it's possible to start with more, but it's counterproductive at best).


I owned a GSX-R 750 for a couple of years, too (and had a roommate who owned one and let me ride his while I was in a bikeless period). I've ridden hotter stuff, but a GSX-R 750 is an intimidating motorcycle. It's a fucking horse. I've ridden one at an indicated 170 mph. I've throttle wheelied it at 80 mph and ridden on the back wheel up to 115+. I've taken 35-mph posted turns at 100 mph. It's a monster, and you don't want one for your first bike.

If you ride like a total pussy, you might beat the odds and not wreck, but if you're riding it like that, what did you gain by getting such a high-performance motorcycle instead of a more versatile, less expensive SV650?

Quote :

"I've never read anyone say "SV650" without including the word "beginner" in the same sentence, though, so it obviously lacks something. "

No, it's because of this crazy idea that we have in America that you're a little bitch if you ride anything less than a liter-class race-replica. A 600 supersport is considered a "beginner" bike by many here in the States, too, and that is absolutely not the case (there's a reason they're called "middleweights").

What's lacking isn't in the bike so much as it is a lacking of a grasp on reality by all but a small minority of people who "get it".



Also, don't buy a new bike. That's retarded with an SV650, especially for your first bike. Go spend like $2000-2500 and buy a decent, used SV.

[Edited on August 24, 2009 at 5:53 PM. Reason : ]

8/24/2009 5:48:31 PM

I have been looking for an SV at that price point for a month with no luck. Seems to be a trend for me on tdub as far as purchasing things (miatas, ls swaps, etc...) .

I'm either sucky at crazedlist.org or you people are getting lucky like hell.

8/24/2009 6:20:36 PM

expand your search, use firefox and use http://www.crazedlist.org

8/24/2009 7:04:00 PM

what did I just post, lol.

are you being serious ?

8/24/2009 7:07:15 PM

i learned on an R1. I had so much respect for the power that i slowly worked my way up to different speeds, rpms, and roads/turns before i really got a hold of all the power.

the first thing I did when i bought the bike was, from a stand still, I gently laid the bike on its side(had frame sliders) and learned the correct way to pick the bike up. the reason i did that was just incase i stalled it out in traffic and laid it down, I wouldnt look like a complete moron trying to muscle the 500 pound bike around.

8/24/2009 7:11:53 PM

Ragged:

thug life:

8/24/2009 7:22:41 PM

hahha hell yes

8/24/2009 7:23:27 PM

http://www.break.com/index/motorcycle-showoff-slammed-into-tree.html

Just don't do like this guy.

8/25/2009 3:05:42 PM

My first bike was a 2007 SV650S.

Great beginner bike...didn't ever seem to get out of control but it can surprise you if you aren't paying attention.

2 thumbs up etc......unfortunately I had to sell it but I would definitely buy it again if I had to do it all over

8/25/2009 3:18:14 PM

Damn, now I know what the next bike I'm looking to buy once I have this real job I keep talking about is.

This shit looks like a great streetbike (Almost like a super-SV ) with an excellent chassis, suspension, brakes and engine. The riding position looks reasonable, the handlebars aren't too aggressively placed and yet it performs on superbike levels. This thing seems like it could really be an everyday superbike and it's much more attractive to me than something like the B-King (Which, while awesome, is too big and heavy for me to really be into it).




This guy is really impressed with the usability and performance of the base model (I think I'd want to go with the S model though):

8/26/2009 10:11:04 AM

I loved my SV650s! I loved it so much, everytime I came to a stop sign and dropped it on its side I bought a new right side farring, which I still have two sitting in my garage. But after I got mowed down by a truck and decided to get a 4 cylinder, I sorta like the high end torque versus the low end torque. But I like my 4 cylinder better cause it was lowered to fit my height and its pretty fast. But it it much more unpredictable? than my SV650s. I think it was much smoother to learn how to ride for sure.

They are both great bikes... whatever you choose just be aware that people in 4 wheels are the devil

8/26/2009 8:03:59 PM

lowering a sportbike is the devil, too

8/26/2009 8:04:56 PM

n00b question: I've always wondered, besides the obvious differences in suspension, wheelbase, CoG, powerband, handling, etc., what's the real difference between say a 750 v-twin cruiser and a 750 4cyl sport bike?

are the sport bikes really that much faster? is it because of weight and aerodynamics or is it the gearing? does a cruiser of the same displacement launch faster at low rpms then the sport bike blows past at higher engine speeds?


would you consider a 750cc cruiser as a beginner bike whereas you wouldnt with a 750 sport?

8/27/2009 5:33:01 AM

a 750 cruiser is a bit much for a beginner due to weight but the power isn't that bad. the reason sport bikes are so much more powerful is they rev so high. even vtwin sport bikes like my RC rev to 11k. I'm sure the gearing on a cruiser isn't as high as the gearing on a sport bike either. basically everything on a sport bike is there to help you go and stop fast and most of the stuff on a cruiser is to make you comfortable.

the internals on sportbikes also tend to be WAY lighter to let the engine rev considerably faster. they're also water cooled and better breathing (dohc) while cruisers are aircooled ohv pushrod motors usually.

[Edited on August 27, 2009 at 8:51 AM. Reason : .]

8/27/2009 8:49:50 AM

perfect beg. bike



[Edited on August 27, 2009 at 5:37 PM. Reason : d]

8/27/2009 5:36:58 PM

Quote :

"are the sport bikes really that much faster? is it because of weight and aerodynamics or is it the gearing? does a cruiser of the same displacement launch faster at low rpms then the sport bike blows past at higher engine speeds?"

2004 cbr600RR did 0-100 in 8.xx seconds


It's called a completely different state of mind and engineering. As far as production bikes go, dont even try to compare a "cruiser" to a sport bike

8/27/2009 5:40:19 PM

^^Don't be silly, you can't ride a red x.

O I C, NVM

[Edited on August 27, 2009 at 6:02 PM. Reason : .]

8/27/2009 6:02:10 PM

Quote :

"what's the real difference between say a 750 v-twin cruiser and a 750 4cyl sport bike? are the sport bikes really that much faster? is it because of weight and aerodynamics or is it the gearing? does a cruiser of the same displacement launch faster at low rpms then the sport bike blows past at higher engine speeds? would you consider a 750cc cruiser as a beginner bike whereas you wouldnt with a 750 sport?"

Oh man, they're not even slightly comparable. a 750 sportbike (well, the GSX-R is pretty much the only 750 sportbike these days) makes well over DOUBLE the power of most any 750 v-twin cruiser...and probably weighs, ohhh, 3/4 of what the cruiser weighs.

The aerodynamics are a factor, too, at big speeds, but really it's just the TREMENDOUS power:weight ratio. The cruiser is actually geared much shorter...it tops out at prob 115-120, I'll guess, whereas the sportbike will do well into the 170s (and might even crack 180 mph). The sportbike will probably do mid-80s or more in FIRST GEAR (and a liter class sportbike will get into the triple digits).

On top of all that, a sportbike's handling is very, very sharp and responsive, but not as stable or forgiving. Shit, even the brakes can get you into trouble (or save you, depending on if you use them properly or hamfistedly).

a 750 cruiser is fine as a first bike. They're not overly heavy, and you can get a nice one for dirt cheap. a 750 sportbike shouldn't even be considered as a first motorcycle, period.

8/27/2009 6:09:11 PM

god damn the ducati streetfighter is one sexy machine

8/27/2009 6:57:48 PM

ergonomics is almost as much of an issue as all the power and aero stuff Duke has mentioned.

Tall wide bars, upright seating position, and not having that confusing fairing that does not turn with your bars really make it a lot more learner-friendly. and weight distributions more over the rear wheel in case of emergency braking.

oh and the naked streetbikes are the best of both worlds. detuned and more ergo-friendly, and no old-fart-redneck status associated. only negative is that [in US] they haul a lot less ass (as in chick appeal) than either cruisers or crotch rockets. not that you should have a passenger on the back while you learn anyhow

8/27/2009 7:04:38 PM

Quote :

"lowering a sportbike is [s]the devil['s] nigger, too "

8/27/2009 7:22:21 PM

Alright. I'm taking my safety course in October.

Where do I even begin in regard to helmets? In what price range should I expect to get a good value?

8/30/2009 5:36:29 PM

$150-$200, and get a color that would go good with another motorcycle if you ever go to get another one... I know of people with a helmet collection because of their desire to color match with each bike

8/30/2009 6:00:24 PM

^^ I have an Icon Mainframe, pretty good helmet overall (quality control problems worked out since 2006). I found it on closeout on E-Bay for $90. Go for a Snell approved helmet. I have owned several DOT only helmets and notice a vast difference in the quality of the fit and construction between them. Cycle Gear on Tryon Rd. is a great place to find riding gear.

http://www.cyclegear.com/city_location.cfm?Store=53

[Edited on August 30, 2009 at 6:20 PM. Reason : .]

8/30/2009 6:18:38 PM

Don't buy a used helmet

Full disclosure: I've bought two used helmets

[Edited on August 30, 2009 at 7:59 PM. Reason : ]

8/30/2009 7:58:53 PM

flat black never did anyone harm, btw.

8/30/2009 8:02:22 PM

HJC makes a decent helmet for the money.

You can get a solid-color Shoei RF-1000 for about $300. That's gonna be my next purchase.

Quote :

"that confusing fairing that does not turn with your bars"

If that confusing fairing gives you problems, you probably should give up on motorcycle and take up something a little less dynamic, like...coloring, or maybe a bubble wand.

8/31/2009 6:49:50 AM

Quote :

"HJC makes a decent helmet for the money."

really...i have an $80 HJC and it works just fine...yes, it's a bit heavier (and by a "bit", i mean not much at all) than the $150-200 helmets, but my neck is not a twig that's about to break, so i have no reason to whine about it

it's also black, which goes with just about everything...there's no good reason to be super fancy with a helmet if you're just learning to ride

8/31/2009 8:00:12 AM

Quote :

"You can get a solid-color Shoei RF-1000 for about $300."

I went with this and it has served me well.

8/31/2009 9:56:37 AM

^^, ^^^

When I searched amazon for <$200 helmets with the keyword "Snell," HJC seemed to be the best-represented.

8/31/2009 10:23:11 AM

Get a full face with a bright solid color, preferably yellow or orange. If you aren't going to wear full riding gear (which you should) at least do this. You will have time to be cool when you are dead. Its already hard enough to be seen by cagers, as they usually aren't even looking/expecting for you. Add in idiots on cell phones and it gets even worse. The helmet could probably be the only easily visible thing on your entire bike.

8/31/2009 3:02:46 PM

hell, i want to add super bright LEDs to my bike...i don't care if it looks dumb, i'd rather not get hit

but yeah...DO NOT use one of those half-head helmets...they're stupidest things...sure, your skull might be okay in an accident, but the lower half of your face could be missing

go full-face and try them on before you buy...it should be snug (but wherever you buy can tell you this)

8/31/2009 3:12:53 PM

Where the damage happens on helmets (from a study). Half face and beanies are almost worthless. They can't do this:



This might be of use too
http://www.cohcc.org/data/50%20Ways%20to%20Save%20Your%20Life.pdf

[Edited on August 31, 2009 at 5:18 PM. Reason : .]

8/31/2009 5:17:37 PM

There's a Cycle Gear on Tryon road. Go try on some helmets - their prices are decent, but you can find better deals from websites like motorcycle-superstore.com. Don't bother with Amazon - do business with a site dedicated to bike gear that has specific policies for returning stuff that doesn't fit. Motorcycle-superstore has a customer-ratings system that has plenty of reviews for most helmets too, where you might get one or two reviews on an amazon listing.

Not all full-face are created equal. You'll ususally get what you pay for. You can find snell/dot helmets for $50, but you'll know when you hold it that it will break easily.

8/31/2009 6:07:07 PM

8/31/2009 6:17:34 PM

That ass better be made of kevlar.

8/31/2009 8:35:29 PM

set em up

9/1/2009 10:16:11 PM