http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8256525.stm

Iraq shoe thrower 'was tortured'

Quote :

"The Iraqi journalist who threw his shoes at former US President George W Bush says he was tortured by senior government officials while in jail. Shortly after his release from nine months in a Baghdad prison, Muntadar al-Zaidi demanded an apology - and said he would name the officials later. Iraqi officials told the BBC his claims should be investigated. His protest last December made him a hero for many Arabs. He was convicted of assaulting a foreign leader. Initially, he was sentenced to three years in jail. But he had the term reduced to 12 months on appeal and was released three months early for good behaviour. 'Insurgent revolutionary' MUNTADAR AL-ZAIDI Worked for Egypt-based broadcaster since 2005 Was kidnapped by gunmen while reporting in Baghdad in 2007 Detained by US troops for a night in 2008, his brother says, before they freed him and apologised After his release on Tuesday he told journalists: "I am free again, but my homeland is still a prison." Reuters news agency reported he was slurring his speech because of a missing tooth. He went on to say he had suffered beatings, whippings, electric shocks and simulated drowning at the hands of officials and guards. "At the time that Prime Minister Nouri Maliki said on television that he could not sleep without being reassured on my fate... I was being tortured in the worst ways, beaten with electric cables and iron bars," he said. He demanded an apology from Mr Maliki and said he would name the officials who tortured him in due course. ANALYSIS Hugh Sykes, BBC News, Baghdad Many Iraqis regard Muntadar al-Zaidi as a national hero - others think he was unforgivably rude. After leaving prison, Mr Zaidi went straight to al Baghdadiya, the TV station he was working for at the news conference where he threw the shoes. Addressing his own news conference, he said he had been tortured in jail. A spokesman for the ministry of human rights told us that if he was badly treated, it's likely that it happened while he was in custody before his trial, and not in the prison where he spent the past nine months, as it is a jail with a good reputation. He also said he feared US intelligence services regarded him as an "insurgent revolutionary" and would "spare no effort" in a bid to kill him. "I want to warn all my relatives and people close to me that these services will use all means to trap and try to kill and liquidate me either physically, socially or professionally," he said. His allegations of abuse mirror claims made earlier by his family, who said he had been beaten, suffering a broken arm, broken ribs and internal bleeding. The Iraqi military earlier denied the allegations, but following Zaidi's news conference Sami Al Askari, an adviser to Mr Maliki, said his torture claims should be investigated. Zaidi's family has been preparing to throw a party for him. He has reportedly received offers of money, jobs and even marriage from across the Arab world. His relatives say he was offered a golden horse by the Emir of Qatar. When news of his release filtered through to his family's home in Baghdad, there was an eruption of celebration, with women dancing and singing. 'Goodbye kiss' The shoe-throwing incident came during a joint news conference between Mr Bush and Mr Maliki. As he threw the shoes, Zaidi shouted: "This is a goodbye kiss from the Iraqi people, dog. "This is from the widows, the orphans and those who were killed in Iraq." In an interview afterwards, Mr Bush insisted he did not harbour any ill feeling about it. "It was amusing - I've seen a lot of weird things during my presidency, and this may rank up there as one of the weirdest," he said."

I wonder if he would have been tortured had he done it on US soil... yeah probably, as he would have been shipped off to Guantanamo. So actually, the Iraqis did to him what the Americans would have done as well... so no complaints in that case; Iraq is now just as 'advanced' and 'free' as the US!

9/15/2009 11:20:24 AM

dont throw shoes

9/15/2009 11:22:03 AM

Don't come cryin' to us. These are YOUR people torturing YOUR people.

It also sounds like it's coming from a paranoid delusional as well.

[Edited on September 15, 2009 at 11:25 AM. Reason : *]

9/15/2009 11:24:06 AM

I learned it by watching you!

9/15/2009 11:30:37 AM

They are not MY people.

Bush said he wanted to create a free democratic society in Iraq. Is that what free democratic societies do? Actually yes... so cross that question. Is that what free democratic societies are supposed to do? No.

So the US has failed in its mission.

Then again, we didn't have to know about the shoe thrower being tortured to know that the US has miserably failed in Iraq.

Bush and his cabal also implied that somehow people's ancient cultures, traditions, practices, and temperaments can be changed in a few years by a war designed to give them freedom. "Hey, Japan and Germany did it!"

Yeah, women and children are still oppressed in Iraq and Afghanistan. Men are still tortured by the governments. And they will be for several decades, if not centuries, esp in the case of Afghanistan.

GG Bush.


[Edited on September 15, 2009 at 11:33 AM. Reason : ]

9/15/2009 11:31:21 AM

^^^

[Edited on September 15, 2009 at 11:31 AM. Reason : g]

9/15/2009 11:31:49 AM

this mother fucker would be dead as a door if he tossed a shoe at Saddam.

sucks he got tortured but he should be lucky to be alive.

9/15/2009 11:33:37 AM

Yeah let's compare a US installed democracy with the dictatorship that was removed to install that democracy.

Nice standards there to compare yourself with!

[Edited on September 15, 2009 at 11:36 AM. Reason : Out for a feast!]

9/15/2009 11:35:17 AM

i really wouldn't call the government of Iraq a democracy.

9/15/2009 11:39:15 AM

OEPII1, you're trying to argue with people who think there's no problem with "dribbling a little bit of water down the noses" of American citizens, so I don't believe you're going to get anywhere with them, sorry.

If it's any consolation, I agree with you.

9/15/2009 11:39:55 AM

So, rather than being taken out back and executed on the spot he is allegedly tortured and released in 9 months.

And this is a failure?

And before we get our panties in a wad, let's wait and see who he accuses and what he accuses them of. On top of that, I'd go as far as to say the torture must not have been all that bad if he is brazen enough to go public with it. Could they not just as easily arrest him again and do a bit more torturing? In regards to free and democratic, assuming they did torture him, he goes public, and they DON'T arrest him again, how is this not yet another sign of a state that is progressing from an iron fist dictatorship to a free country?

Your argument is weak as fuck.

[Edited on September 15, 2009 at 11:43 AM. Reason : .]

9/15/2009 11:41:06 AM

Quote :

"He also said he feared US intelligence services regarded him as an "insurgent revolutionary" and would "spare no effort" in a bid to kill him."

Sounds like a bit of a nut bar. I guess the focus is no longer on the guys who bury bombs under roads and kill police and the new US mission is to go after rude people.

Quote :

"He demanded an apology from Mr Maliki and said he would name the officials who tortured him in due course."

The only reason he's waiting is so that people will listen to his next press conference. He's already given himself more publicity than most reporters can dream of.

Yes, jails are shitty places, even in Iraq! Do they have PF Changs there yet?

9/15/2009 11:41:26 AM

I agree with the sentiments of Fail Boat and Mr. Joshua.

9/15/2009 11:52:56 AM

You shouldnt use the example of him being on US soil and doing it, then assuming he would be shipped off to gitmo and tortured there.

If a US citizen were on Iraqi soil before Saddam was displaced, threw a shoe at Saddam, he might not have been killed, but I bet he would have never seen the light of day again -and torture? Most certainly.

Yea yea, dont compare a dictatorship to the pseudo democracy that is currently in place, but I think what people are trying to say is that things might be better than they were. This is to your original argument of what we fought for. Yes, maybe things are not where they should or need to be, but maybe in some ways they are better than they were.

9/15/2009 11:55:58 AM

Prison is not supposed to be fun, Im just sayin'

9/15/2009 12:03:43 PM

here's an easy solution: DON'T THROW SHOES AT PRESIDENTS!

dumbfucker

9/15/2009 12:14:45 PM

9/15/2009 12:18:02 PM

If these things happened, that's terrible.

But to be honest, from what I've seen so far, I think there's a good chance he's lying.

"Oh, I can name names -- really, I can! I will! I promise!"

Plus, we're talking about a reporter who threw his shoe. I think his biases are pretty clear, either fanatically against anything with a US taint or fanatically in favor of anything that gets him in the news.

9/15/2009 12:50:44 PM

i'm probably one of the more vocal opponents of the Bush Administration and how they tragically made the US synonymous with state-sanctioned torture .... but I don't give two shits about Mister Shoe Thrower, and his unsubstantiated claims.

for one, i don't particularly believe him. And even if his claims turn out to be partially or completely true, the lesson here is that you don't fucking assault the President of the US, and then complain about the treatment you receive in a foreign jail.


Also, the fact that he immediately apologized and begged for a lenient sentence, claiming that he was overcome by emotion, was a really pussy move. If you're gonna go make an international scene, then at least have some fucking balls to stand by your convictions.

i think this guy is just angling for a book deal. which i'm sure he'll get. fuck him.

9/15/2009 12:53:07 PM

No, this is what we fought for:

Quote :

"Iraqi officials told the BBC his claims should be investigated."

Assuming that his allegations are true (as other point out, there is sufficient reasons to be skeptical), he has the opportunity for justice to be served, and without needing to bribe anyone. And that is a significant step up from before.

9/15/2009 1:18:55 PM

I always envision a Persian prison to be like the opening to Robin Hood, even in modern times. Far worse than anything at Gitmo.

9/15/2009 1:52:35 PM

what a stupid thread

not the original article...but pretty much every single post 0EP has made in the thread

9/15/2009 2:16:15 PM

this guy didn't go to a Persian prison.

arab prisons I'm sure are similar tho.

9/15/2009 3:15:44 PM

Quote :

"I learned it by watching you!"

haha, classic. I actually went to high school with that kids older brother.

Mark Gagliardi is the name of the kid from that commercial. He was in that life with bonnie show awhile back, in a small role.

9/15/2009 3:25:35 PM

I opposed the Iraq war. I was deployed there twice. The Bush administrations handling of the strategic goals of the were bordered on criminal.


Still, Iraq 2009 >>>>>> Iraq 2002


There were better ways of achieving this end, but the end is still the same.

9/15/2009 4:43:37 PM

Quote :

"And before we get our panties in a wad, let's wait and see who he accuses and what he accuses them of. On top of that, I'd go as far as to say the torture must not have been all that bad if he is brazen enough to go public with it. Could they not just as easily arrest him again and do a bit more torturing? In regards to free and democratic, assuming they did torture him, he goes public, and they DON'T arrest him again, how is this not yet another sign of a state that is progressing from an iron fist dictatorship to a free country? Your argument is weak as fuck."

reverse everything you just said if it was an american journalist.

9/15/2009 5:52:18 PM

Quote :

"this guy didn't go to a Persian prison. "

Im pretty sure Iraq is considered a Persian country not Arabian

9/15/2009 6:10:49 PM

oh christ

just put Persia

in your google search bar and see what the first hit is

Quote :

"reverse everything you just said if it was an american journalist."

Reverse everything I said? That makes not a damn bit of sense.

[Edited on September 15, 2009 at 6:16 PM. Reason : .]

9/15/2009 6:14:16 PM

oh christ

just put Miserable Failure

in your google search bar and see what the first hit is

9/15/2009 6:17:20 PM

Quote :

"reverse everything you just said if it was an american journalist."

Nobody is arguing this treatment is acceptable.

What a lot of us do take issue with is the OPs implication that, since Iraq is not up to the level of civil rights that we demand in the United States, that the whole war was a terrible waste.

There are a lot of solid arguments against the Iraq invasion. This isn't one of them.

9/15/2009 6:27:08 PM

He was only in prison for 9 months, he says he was whipped and beaten with iron bars (wtf). He should still have visible trauma on/in his body from this type of "torture." Getting whipped to the point of laceration would leave visible scarring for at least 9 months, usually much longer depending on the severity.

Sounds more like the guy is just trying to stay relevant, like those 15 minute celebrities in the US do.

9/15/2009 6:36:14 PM