Tonight on the news the mayor said that Raleigh is looking into plans for the next arena when it is time to build one in about 15 years. They are considering downtown and next door to the RBC Center as possible places. I'm not really a fan of this idea. Parking is great like it is for football, basketball, and hockey. Putting one downtown would be a parking and traffic disaster.

9/16/2009 11:58:13 PM

fwiw, when they were doing the "new" Bobcats arena in downtown Charlotte instead of playing out on Tyvola Road at the old coliseum, which is kind of out in the cut similar to the current RBC/CF, I was thinking traffic was going to be horrible because it was never bad at the coliseum (expect immediatley after games which you'd expect anywhere)

but it really wasn't as bad as i thought...its an excuse for them to cut down on free parking and make some money but along with that comes maybe even better traffic

at least for basketball...football is always a mess wherever your stadium is, at least in my experience

9/17/2009 12:01:12 AM

I highly doubt we will see a new arena that soon, but if we do, it will be an epic fail if they don't build it downtown this time.

9/17/2009 12:05:06 AM

I wonder why traffic isn't bad.....

9/17/2009 12:07:14 AM

not sports

9/17/2009 12:07:56 AM

I don't even know where they would put one. They have this fantasy about being Boston. In Boston you can sit at the bar and throw a rock and hit Fenway Park. There really isn't any place to put one on Glenwood South, or at Moore Square. There best bet would be to somehow install an entire shopping center and put about 5 bars in it.

Quote :

"I highly doubt we will see a new arena that soon, but if we do, it will be an epic fail if they don't build it downtown this time."

I like our set up. 2000 lot parking gets funneled straight on to Wade Ave and the rest of the lots empty fast too.



[Edited on September 17, 2009 at 12:14 AM. Reason : .]

9/17/2009 12:11:36 AM

They have a nice massive chunk of land right about hur...

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=dorothea+dix&sll=35.771795,-78.641338&sspn=0.013963,0.034246&ie=UTF8&radius=0.96&rq=1&ev=zi&ll=35.776217,-78.652539&spn=0.014832,0.034246&t=h&z=15&iwloc=A

9/17/2009 12:14:45 AM

^^you do know that there are bars downtown that are about a billion times better than anything on Glenwood, right?

[Edited on September 17, 2009 at 12:16 AM. Reason : Glenwood South is the absolute worst]

9/17/2009 12:16:08 AM

^Yes I know there are bars all over the place and not just in Moore Square and Glenwood South. Where ever they put it they better save more land for bars, or install it next to about 20 bars. They want that "Step out of the arena and walk 20 feet to the bar" atmosphere.

[Edited on September 17, 2009 at 12:21 AM. Reason : .]

9/17/2009 12:19:03 AM

This would all be pointless without a mass transit system.

9/17/2009 12:23:27 AM

Quote :

"This would all be pointless without a mass transit system."

Exactly! How are they going to dig a hole under the city to install a subway like in NYC and DC? On top of that you have tons of people coming from Greenboro, Durham, Garner, Apex, Clayton, etc to go to hockey games. It's not like living in NYC where you can just hop on the subway to go some place.

[Edited on September 17, 2009 at 12:29 AM. Reason : .]

9/17/2009 12:26:30 AM

lolwat

None of your points make any sense. First, of all, in 15-30 years (when we are looking at this thing), everything will be completely different anyway. Secondly, if you build an arena in a downtown area, the land around it is going to be the hottest property in town. You're not gonna have much trouble attracting businesses. Third, do you think New York and DC are the only cities with downtown arenas? The suburban arena is a remnant of the past. RBC Center was one of the last (if not the last) arenas in the country to be built outside the city center. There have been some positives to that such as the ease of access and the tailgating scene, but it's obvious if you ever visit a city with a downtown arena and take in the game day experience that we are lacking.

Just looking at the NHL, here is the breakdown of arenas:

DOWNTOWN:
Chicago
Columbus
Detroit
Nashville
St. Louis
Calgary
Colorado
Minnesota
Vancouver
Dallas
Los Angeles
San Jose
New Jersey
NY Rangers
Pittsburgh
Boston
Buffalo
Montreal
Toronto
Atlanta
Tampa
Washington

NOT DOWNTOWN:
Edmonton
Anaheim
Phoenix
NY Islanders
Philadelphia
Ottawa
Carolina
Florida

9/17/2009 2:18:58 AM

Building a new arena is POINTLESS, a waste of tax payer dollars, and it would take away from the GREAT parking area we already have at the fairgrounds and with RBC/Certer Finley stadium.

Downtown is crowded enough with the new convention center, and the lack of parking EVERYWHERE in downtown Raleigh. I think ALL NCSU fans, alums should write/protest this idea. it makes sense to have our athletic facilities in one area.

This is NOT about the Hurricanes having a comfortable space for hockey-they forget student tax dollars, city of Raleigh money, Wake County Property tax $$$, Hurricane $$, and private donors went into that building so just b/c the Canes may WANT a place in the next 10-15 years doesnt mean that we are going to give it to them, 'especially' if they are looking to have NCSU and Raleigh citizens help finance the idea!!

BAD IDEA Raleigh Mayor!! If it's not broke, DONT FIX IT!!!

9/17/2009 2:25:14 AM

^^Like I said, the downtown atmosphere is cool at the Red Sox games, but traffic is still a pain in the ass even in a city with good mass transit. If you don't take the train, or taxi in boston then you just end up driving in circles until you get pissed off and drive home. Also the new Giants Stadium is being built next to the old one and that is in the suburbs, so that is not a thing of the past. NYC sits across the harbor. With that being said, the stadium has still managed to become a part of the Chicago 2016 Summer Olympic bid and USA 2018/2022 FIFA World Cup bid.

[Edited on September 17, 2009 at 2:27 AM. Reason : .]

9/17/2009 2:26:56 AM

^ Big difference between football stadiums and indoor arenas.

Quote :

"and the lack of parking EVERYWHERE in downtown Raleigh. "

WTF???

Downtown has TOO MUCH parking.

Quote :

"30 percent of the spaces in the $64.5 million underground deck that serves the convention center and the Marriott are being used daily. That is far below the 85 percent occupancy level that deck operators consider ideal, but it's not uncommon in downtown Raleigh. Occupancy rates are equally low at the Performing Arts deck on South Street and the Blount Street deck near City Market that opened last year."

NC State can continue to play at RBC Center if they want. The fact is, in 2029 (feels weird to type that) the arena will be 30 years old. That's ancient by sports arena standards. It's never too early to start thinking about planning for the future.

FYI here is the story that is referenced in the original post http://www.newsobserver.com/2958/story/1689552.html

[Edited on September 17, 2009 at 2:37 AM. Reason : .]

9/17/2009 2:32:05 AM

I've never had a problem finding curbside parking more than two blocks from where I'm going downtown, and even if I did there's eleventy billion completely empty parking decks in a six block radius.

9/17/2009 2:58:25 AM

i really hope its downtown and not near the RBC center.

Quote :

"I highly doubt we will see a new arena that soon, but if we do, it will be an epic fail if they don't build it downtown this time. "

[Edited on September 17, 2009 at 4:34 AM. Reason : quote]

9/17/2009 4:33:13 AM

i love how some people think walking 5-10 blocks is a major inconvenience


haha

9/17/2009 8:12:41 AM

Quote :

"This would all be pointless without a mass transit system."

they have been considering a lightrail in raleigh for years now, i wonder if this would be part of the "package".

9/17/2009 8:20:48 AM

I wouldn't be against a downtown arena, because I've enjoyed the "walk out the arena into the bar" setup I've seen in Toronto, Atlanta, Buffalo, and Washington. Ottawa doesn't even play in Ottawa, they play down the road in Kanata and there is absolutely jackshit near it, plus they don't allow tailgating of any kind (understandably it is cold as shit during the winter and I wouldn't want to tailgate then anyway).

That being said, I think you'll see another arena in the area of the current one before you see one downtown. It's a lot more likely they'll choose to build up the area out there with hotels, shopping centers, bars, etc. before an arena is built downtown.

Only a guess though, we are talking about a distant date. The Hurricanes still have to be here around that time to make it debatable. I don't think NC State basketball needs a downtown arena.

9/17/2009 8:39:41 AM

so... does this mean we could take down all those stupid hockey banners in 20 years?

9/17/2009 8:42:01 AM

I'd say you're stuck with them unless the Hurricanes move, the franchise folds, the NHL ceases to be, or they start playing in different arenas.

I didn't read the nando article before I posted my comments, it would appear the mayor wants it downtown. I still think the most likely scenario, not necessarily the best however, will be that it goes out near the current location.

9/17/2009 8:53:59 AM

Just tear up a bunch of ghetto shacks and put it close to shaw somewhere in the southern part of the inner beltline. Plenty of slumlords would be happy to see their properties bought out and demolished for a 25% premium, and all the surrounding realestate would be happy about the changes too!

9/17/2009 9:04:00 AM

heard few days back, redwings are planning to build a new arena as well

9/17/2009 10:13:01 AM

The united center is not really downtown

9/17/2009 10:20:21 AM

it's about time, for them^^

[Edited on September 17, 2009 at 10:21 AM. Reason : ]

9/17/2009 10:20:57 AM

Quote :

"Sure, it has convenient parking and highway access. But it's an economic island that couldn't keep a lone sports bar across the street in business."

I never went there, but the people that did said it wasn't that good. Had they put an Outback, Chili's, Lone Star, or any other popular sit down chain resturant along with a sign at the Edwards Mill exit then it would probably still be open. I can't believe they don't have a shopping center there already with a grocery store, KFC, and bars. It would be a gold mine during football season since so many people tailgate.

9/17/2009 10:46:25 AM

Quote :

"grocery store, KFC, and bars"

Question: What are the three key ingredients to a successful area redevelopment?


and seriously, a "gold mine"? You do know that football season is like six days a year, right?

[Edited on September 17, 2009 at 10:57 AM. Reason : dumb]

9/17/2009 10:49:21 AM

A B sanitation grade and cruddy food did Damon's in.

I'd just as soon spend half of 'new arena' money and do a big renovation than build a whole new building. It's not like the walls and roof are gonna go bad.

9/17/2009 11:00:27 AM

^^My guess is one of them would be to build more business'. My friend can ride his bike to the game. There are apartments and subdivisions very close to the Arena. Building an entire shopping center would be a plus. Lowes Foods, or Walmart would do good there. Then put chili's where Damon's used to be and put Buffalo Wild Wings in the shopping center like at White Oak Crossing in Garner. You also have the high school right there, so resturants and ice cream shops could probably do good there because of that.

[Edited on September 17, 2009 at 11:12 AM. Reason : .]

9/17/2009 11:01:07 AM

Quote :

"and seriously, a "gold mine"? You do know that football season is like six days a year, right?"

Yeh, but basketball is 19 days a year and hockey about 40 days a year. The Arena has events going on all of the time. Then there is the Fairgrounds down the street which also has events all of the time. The closest shopping centers and attractions that I can think of are Hillsborough Street and Crossroads Plaza. I think a small shopping center could do well, if you make it about the size of Mill Pond on 1010 Rd. And as someone else said, Damon's had a B sanitation grade and crappy food.

9/17/2009 11:10:30 AM

Quote :

" It would be a gold mine during football season since so many people tailgate."

9/17/2009 11:14:37 AM

if aint broke dont fix it


RBC will never be in a better location than where it is. If they move it downtown, it will be a parking nightmare and I for one, won't bother with half the games I normally go to.

9/17/2009 11:25:04 AM

A new downtown arena would be awesome for the canes.

As long as this is the 15 year plan dream scenario...I would love to see that downtown arena be a baseball stadium with the Raleigh_______s teeing it up every spring!

9/17/2009 11:28:07 AM

Quote :

"Just tear up a bunch of ghetto shacks and put it close to shaw somewhere in the southern part of the inner beltline. Plenty of slumlords would be happy to see their properties bought out and demolished for a 25% premium, and all the surrounding realestate would be happy about the changes too! "

YES!

9/17/2009 11:31:07 AM

^^That would be cool, but there is a 30 mile radius rule with baseball, so that is why the Mudcats are way out in the middle of nowhere. Being in downtown Raleigh would put them too close to the Bulls. I don't really see an MLB team ever coming here either.

[Edited on September 17, 2009 at 11:32 AM. Reason : .]

9/17/2009 11:32:08 AM

By the time this actually happens in 20 years, I don't think there will even be much debate over where to put it. This whole urban sprawl/white flight bullshit that started in the 1950s has only just started to reverse itself in the last decade, but by then density will probably be the unquestioned way to go for every American city. Not to mention it will be around the exact same time the rail system should be nearing completion. I would imagine the city would love to embrace the opportunity to sync a new downtown arena with the opening of the final light rail line. That would be a landmark moment.

Can't wait to be here or come back here in my mid-40s and see it.

9/17/2009 11:35:59 AM

Quote :

"Just tear up a bunch of ghetto shacks and put it close to shaw somewhere in the southern part of the inner beltline. Plenty of slumlords would be happy to see their properties bought out and demolished for a 25% premium, and all the surrounding realestate would be happy about the changes too!"

Hmmm, yes, let's worry about the needs of real estate moguls over the impending relocation of a bunch of poor people to some other part of Raleigh, or, if we get really lucky, they'll just hang out around the new arena begging for change along with all of the rest of the panhandlers! Yahoo!

Not to mention, that's a shitty location from an entertainment perspective. Where exactly will people walk to after a game? McDonald's? That sketchy hotel on Wilmington St.?

9/17/2009 11:58:31 AM

Quote :

"By the time this actually happens in 20 years, I don't think there will even be much debate over where to put it. This whole urban sprawl/white flight bullshit that started in the 1950s has only just started to reverse itself in the last decade, but by then density will probably be the unquestioned way to go for every American city. Not to mention it will be around the exact same time the rail system should be nearing completion. I would imagine the city would love to embrace the opportunity to sync a new downtown arena with the opening of the final light rail line. That would be a landmark moment. Can't wait to be here or come back here in my mid-40s and see it."

It isn't a sure thing. A lot of people have been against it and the federal government backed out on the funding it was going to give Raleigh for a train. Anyway, maybe we can have our new arena by the riverwalk.

http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/2780291/

9/17/2009 1:44:20 PM

Quote :

"The united center is not really downtown"

The United Center's neighborhood has been the slums of Chicago for the longest time, formally known as "skid row". Not until like 2 years ago has the neighborhood been getting better. During the Jordan era it was even crappy.

9/17/2009 1:57:36 PM

State gov't 15 years = we'll wait 30 years for this project. I'm not even going to form an opinion until about 10 years before it begins construction.

/thread.

9/17/2009 2:05:35 PM

Quote :

"Hmmm, yes, let's worry about the needs of real estate moguls over the impending relocation of a bunch of poor people to some other part of Raleigh, or, if we get really lucky, they'll just hang out around the new arena begging for change along with all of the rest of the panhandlers! Yahoo! Not to mention, that's a shitty location from an entertainment perspective. Where exactly will people walk to after a game? McDonald's? That sketchy hotel on Wilmington St.?"

Relocation is not a big deal when you dont really own anything.

No one said we would be worrying about the needs of real estate moguls ... just saying that it would not be hard to get them to buy into the idea. Just saying that you dont need a peice of barren land in order to build a huge arena (referencing someones suggestion to build it on the Dix land).

With an arena, the civic center, and memorial auditorium all in that general area, you can definitely build up the local eateries/bars around it, and do some more cleanup to make that part of downtown attractive.

9/17/2009 2:07:44 PM

And I will add that while a downtown arena would be sort of cool, a BC fan was tailgating next to me about 4 years ago and said our setup is great. He said you have to be way at the top of the booster club to get parking for tailgating at BC games. He also said something along the lines of, "This is great! You can't tailgate at a Red Sox game so 2 hours later you walk out of the bar with a $60 tab and say, wow what happened!" Our cuurent setup has its advantages too.

9/17/2009 2:08:30 PM

I used to live in Tampa, and Raymond James is actually pretty well situated. It's not near downtown at all, but it's got plenty going for it. There's Dale Mabry Hwy leading in to it, which has plenty of bars and places to eat. It also has tons of parking, lots of space for a tailgate, and even space left over for the practice facilities. And people live around there, too. Sure, it's no downtown Boston, but it's a good setup.

Maybe it's time we brought the mountain to Mohammed w/ regards to the RBC Center and Carter-Finley? It's too bad they've already got all those research facilities and those crappy office buildings already out there.

9/17/2009 4:43:11 PM

^They could probably build a shopping center out there if they wanted to and put multiple sports bars in it.

9/17/2009 4:50:04 PM

Quote :

"And I will add that while a downtown arena would be sort of cool, a BC fan was tailgating next to me about 4 years ago and said our setup is great. He said you have to be way at the top of the booster club to get parking for tailgating at BC games. He also said something along the lines of, "This is great! You can't tailgate at a Red Sox game so 2 hours later you walk out of the bar with a $60 tab and say, wow what happened!" Our cuurent setup has its advantages too."

i don't think they would be moving state, probably just the canes

9/17/2009 4:54:18 PM

all i know is that downtown could not handle the traffic. hillsboro st already has a hard enough time during the day during class

9/17/2009 7:05:53 PM

The main arteries into downtown are Wade Ave, Capital Blvd, Western Blvd, S. Saunders St., and New Bern Ave. Hillsborough St. is not intended to be used as a through route to downtown, and part of the motivation for the current renovations is to ensure that people stop using it as one.

9/17/2009 7:14:45 PM

Hate to double post, but some interesting things regarding the 8 NHL teams listed above that do not have downtown arenas.

Edmonton has recently announced plans to build a new arena downtown.
Phoenix is in deep shit, and a major part of that is the terrible location of their arena in Glendale.
Philadelphia is working on a project to replace the old Spectrum with a retail complex with bars, restaurants, and stores that will be part of the complex with the 3 major sport venues.

9/17/2009 8:09:16 PM

Bulldoze Cary Towne Center and put it there.

9/17/2009 8:11:59 PM