It's good because it advances our technology in unanticipated ways, for one.

Argue.

10/29/2009 2:01:45 PM

It could yield some cool shit...although the really cool shit would take a looooooong time so its likely our generation wouldn't be able to appreciate it

10/29/2009 2:10:48 PM

space flight has already yielded some cool shit

10/29/2009 2:17:18 PM

ok, it could yield some more cool shit

10/29/2009 2:23:14 PM

It continues to yield cool shit.

Almost daily.

10/29/2009 2:30:54 PM

The one thing that is cosmologically assured is that Earth will one day no longer be habitable. It's in our best interest to figure out how to get off of this rock and distribute our population elsewhere.

Plus cool shit.

10/29/2009 2:34:13 PM

instead of spending lots of money on figuring out a way to get off this planet when we fuck it all to hell...

why not spend the money on figuring out how to avoid fucking it all to hell?

just stirring the pot i don't care either way

10/29/2009 2:42:00 PM

I think it's critical to continue spaceflight, we have learned so much shit and we have developed so many technologies that enhance our lives DAILY that it would be idiotic to stop.

The dumb fucks who think we should stop going into space are the same dumb motherfuckers who have no appreciation for how the world got to this point.


Also note that one of the most patriotic endeavors this country has undertaken was the space race. We accomplished things in time frames that boggle the mind to this day. We created the most powerful manned vehicles, ever. We controlled them using computing technology that doesn't even compare to a modern calculator. That shit was done the old fashioned way, analog style son. I have nothing but the highest respect for the engineers, scientists and astronauts involved in the space program. Our ability to go into space also demonstrated our abilities as a country. It showed how strong we were in terms of our technological abilities.

I don't see that desire these days, you know, the desire to show the rest of the world that we kick their fucking asses. Now everybody wants to apologize to these little countries and weaken ourselves so that everyone else feels comfortable or some shit. Do you dumbasses not get that this is exactly what they want? Nobody wants to have someone more powerful than them on the playing field, but that doesn't mean we need to give up said position.

It's a damn shame we're being overtaken so steadily by other countries in terms of our output of scientists and engineers. If you don't recognize that when a nation that falls behind in science falls behind everywhere else then I don't know what to tell you. Power comes from technological progress. Technological progress comes from highly educated citizens working together. Things like the sickening attempt to change known facts into ridiculous crap like "intelligent design" is going to drag the country under if it isn't kept in check. Presenting an unnecessary "alternative" to a known fact in text books for example, particularly an alternate that is completely unfounded and without scientific basis, is simply going to handicap future generations.

It is useless to teach someone that, because it has no foundation in any scientific field. It is of no value. The theory of evolution explains things just fine. And this whole "gap" thing is hilarious to me. There's no way to gather every fossil from the first organism to the last. You will not have perfectly preserved fossils of your parents, grandparents, great grandparents, etc. going all the way back to the first amino acid. There is no way to have such a chain. Thus, there will always be "gaps in the fossil record" because you can NEVER obtain a carcass from every animal to have ever lived. To think you can is absolutely retarded. To think that you'd have to do so in order to understand what's going on is also absolutely retarded. Those "gaps" mean nothing, they do not disprove anything about the theory. The theory is in no way disturbed by these "gaps".


As far as manned vs. unmanned, that goes to the bullshit californian theory of protecting you from yourself. If someone wants to go into space in place of a computer and they are capable of performing the job, THEN LET THEM YA DUMMY. Astronauts are, in fact, aware that their job is dangerous. They enjoy it though and they get things out of it that no computer ever can. A rover is useful, but a human on the surface of another planet can do a lot more. They can think and act in many ways that the rover cannot. They can get themselves out of trouble, where many computers/rovers may not. The rover can't get out of itself and dig itself out of a hole it got itself stuck in, for example.

10/29/2009 3:05:43 PM

^^You aren't going to stop an asteroid or the sun from fucking this planet all to hell.

V The way I see it, since our extinction is a cosmological certainty if our species remains on the planet, any time/resources spent on figuring out how to get off it is compelling and worth it.

Now, whether our power generation and rocket technologies are efficient enough to be sending people up every day, that's a good question.

[Edited on October 29, 2009 at 3:10 PM. Reason : .]

10/29/2009 3:05:56 PM

We have no immediate and compelling reason to go into space, beyond installing and repairing satellites. Conventional delivery systems are impractical for manned travel beyond the moon, regardless of the context of the mission.

10/29/2009 3:06:19 PM

Conventional systems were useless for going into space in the 1940's......

What happened within the following 20 years?!

I guess we should have given up in the 40's man, the technology of the time couldn't take us into space.


Oh wait, people actually didn't give up and instead tried harder?! Is that how this shit works?! Sure, if we stop learning, we can't do much more. But, if we solve problems (Something we seem pretty good at), we might just do something that seems impossible today. Kind of like how it seemed impossible to go to the moon less than 1 century ago. I still don't think people really have a full understanding of just how incredible that feat was and still is.

10/29/2009 3:17:01 PM

Quote :

"our extinction is a cosmological certainty if our species remains on the planet"

If we're talking cosmological, it's all over with at some point anyhow.


I'm gonna stick with "general scientific enhancements/discoveries" instead of "continuation of the species after the sun explodes"

10/29/2009 3:19:00 PM

I think if we're going to be serious about space travel/exploration, there needs to be a legitimate global coalition to do it. We'd get a lot more done if we pooled every nation's collective resources and knowledge into one "space agency" type of deal.

10/29/2009 3:25:53 PM

Quote :

"What happened within the following 20 years?!"

The Cold War happened. If not for that, telecommunications companies would have been the first to probe space, probably in the late 70s.

The only reason compelling enough for us to go to the Moon was to prove the USA is better than the USSR.

10/29/2009 3:26:12 PM

What the rovers did on Mars in a year, a manned mission could prolly do in about a day.

10/29/2009 3:29:52 PM

Quote :

"I'm gonna stick with "general scientific enhancements/discoveries" instead of "continuation of the species after the sun explodes""

There are a lot of other things in this universe that can wipe us out long before the sun expands to the point where life will be irradiated from this Earth. Granted, this final certainty is going to happen a long time from now, but maybe if the dinosaurs had figured out how to get off of this planet, they'd still be here.

V NICE!

[Edited on October 29, 2009 at 3:39 PM. Reason : V]

10/29/2009 3:32:48 PM

Quote :

"but maybe if the dinosaurs had figured out how to get off of this planet, they'd still be here."

Maybe they did.

10/29/2009 3:36:24 PM

manned space flight is one of the most important projects for humanity to work on

if I had my way I would up NASA'a budget 10 fold

10/29/2009 3:40:19 PM

^^there was a star trek voyager episode where that actually happened.

10/29/2009 3:53:55 PM

Quote :

"Maybe they did."

yea maybe the dinosaurs and the cavemen figured it all out

10/29/2009 3:58:35 PM

dinosaurs and cavemen missed each other by about 65 million years.

10/29/2009 4:09:59 PM

That exactly what they want you to think.

Keep drinking the koolaid, sheeple.

10/29/2009 4:11:27 PM

A list of 50 technologies we've gotten for the money we've put into NASA:
http://www.ajc.com/living/content/printedition/2008/10/12/nasa.html?cxntlid=inform_artr

NASA's Spinoff Homepage detailing all the technology they have developed and passed on to the commercial sector:
http://www.sti.nasa.gov/tto/

we need to give these people more money

10/29/2009 4:33:21 PM

^^lol

^agreed.

10/29/2009 4:53:23 PM

^^just to be fair, a lot of that stuff on the AJC list has nothing to do with space flight. A lot of it was probably developed while doing plain ol' terrestrial flight research. but, point taken. NASA kicks out some useful shit.

10/29/2009 5:01:21 PM

True. But most of the terrestrial flight research was prerequisite for getting into space.

I also got to thinking about what the list would look like if we didn't actually send people up, just robots/equipment.

10/29/2009 7:46:53 PM

Quote :

"What the rovers did on Mars in a year, a manned mission could prolly do in about a day. "

True, but at 100x the cost, and an infinite amount of risk more to human lives.

I personally would take that risk, but i’m just saying...

10/29/2009 7:50:53 PM

the risk to human life is there, but there is risk in any profession, some more than others. it's not like astronauts are drafted and forced to go to the ISS or the Moon or wherever.

10/29/2009 8:12:38 PM

First, we need to advance technology in fuels, engines, and propulsion. Finding the fuel of the future is much more of a NOW issue and doing so would help advance space exploration. At the current rate, we're only getting back to the moon in 10 years (at best). We might as well just stop for now and focus on developing the new technology to get us further faster and more efficiently.

Focus everything on finding a new fuel.

10/29/2009 8:16:21 PM

chemical rockets are probably still the best way to get to the moon... Ion engines and such make a huge difference over longer distances, but not so much "short" moonshots.

10/29/2009 8:20:06 PM

Supporters of a space elevator say that the technology is almost there.

10/29/2009 9:01:05 PM

^ if we could figure out how to mass produce carbon nanotubes, i could see the technology almost being there.

10/29/2009 9:18:19 PM

i thought this was about an argument on a manned space flight.

im disappointed.

10/29/2009 10:04:08 PM

Why can't we create NASA-like research bodies for other areas of science that are more critical, like medicine or energy? Why can't we put the same amount of human ingenuity into those areas?

10/30/2009 1:22:09 AM

^are you really that ignorant? we have both of those things. and their budgets are larger than nasa's.

10/30/2009 1:32:09 AM

^^ for medicine, combined from the NIH and the private sector, I bet there is a lot more money spent than NASA spends. NASA's impact on the overall US budget tends to get inflated - they use relatively not much money. I bet energy creation and exploration, overall, is much bigger than NASA too.


on the original question?
how can we not explore space? It's unfathomable to me that we are on a tiny planet in an infinite universe, and some people really couldn't care less about exploring outside of their hometown, much less what's outside of our own world.

[Edited on October 30, 2009 at 1:36 AM. Reason : .]

10/30/2009 1:35:00 AM

i just hope we kill the space program so we can pump more money into obscene art

10/30/2009 4:30:24 AM

^3 Well enlighten me then if you're so smart. That's why I asked.

The NIH is just a funds-provider who sponsors mainly for-profit research by private entities.

[Edited on October 30, 2009 at 8:14 AM. Reason : ass]

10/30/2009 8:10:10 AM

but guys, its clear NASA gets like all our monies and there's none left for other things!

10/30/2009 8:16:27 AM

^^so now it has to be money put into a centralized facility for research done by gov't employees? that happens a fair amount too, but for some things you don't need to pool resources into one place. unfortunately, not many universities/private companies can afford to build a giant rocket or a giant wind tunnel (and potentially fail). but even aside from that, nasa funds plenty of research by universities and private enterprise. hell, they paid for 3 years of my grad school.

10/30/2009 8:24:43 AM

http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2009/10/how_habitable_is_the_earth.html



Interesting little article on stuff relative to moving ourselves off of the earth.

10/30/2009 9:30:21 AM

Quote :

"Why can't we create NASA-like research bodies for other areas of science that are more critical, like medicine or energy? Why can't we put the same amount of human ingenuity into those areas?"

US BUDGET FOR FY 2008
NASA: $17.3B
Department of Energy: $24.3B
Department of Health and Human Services: $69.3B
Department of Defense: $481.4B
Social Security: $608B
Medicare: $386B
Interest on National Debt: $261B

*Note: NASA, the DOE, and the DHHS are all more than just research bodies, and therefore not all of their budgets go to research in their respective fields. I do not know if it is possible for me to go through their budgets in a timely manner and extrapolate exactly how much money actually went to research. So I'm just providing the overall budget for each agency, along with a few other items from the 2008 US budget for comparison. Draw your own conclusions.

10/30/2009 11:21:20 AM

Quote :

"The only reason compelling enough for us to go to the Moon was to prove the USA is better than the USSR."

And we did it.

10/30/2009 11:32:02 AM

Quote :

"US BUDGET FOR FY 2008 NASA: $17.3B Department of Energy: $24.3B Department of Health and Human Services: $69.3B Department of Defense: $481.4B Social Security: $608B Medicare: $386B Interest on National Debt: $261B"

Those numbers can be deceptive though. DoD does a LOT of space and aerospace research and production... Their satellite budget alone is substantial let alone the myriad of black projects.

10/30/2009 11:42:52 AM

they need to "black project" our ass back to the moon

10/30/2009 12:09:22 PM

Quote :

"Those numbers can be deceptive though. DoD does a LOT of space and aerospace research and production... Their satellite budget alone is substantial let alone the myriad of black projects."

Sure, but the post was in response to Lumex, and the point of the post was to illustrate that 1) There already are government departments that perform medical and energy research, and 2) They receive more funding than NASA.

While the military does spend copious amounts of $$ on aerospace research and satellites, they do not conduct research in manned space flight, the subject under discussion in this thread.

10/30/2009 7:35:56 PM

People who argue against manned space flight (for reasons other than not wanting the government to be solely in charge of it) are either incapable of or unconcerned with long term results. In fact, I'd say an extremely large portion of modern man's problems are the result of the unwillingness or inability to think long term.

10/30/2009 11:20:15 PM

Quote :

"they need to "black project" our ass back to the moon"

How do you know they haven't?

10/31/2009 12:27:04 AM

It's also my opinion that while a majority of Americans have the general understanding that manned/unmanned space travel is complicated, they really have nowhere close to the understanding of how insanely technically complicated and difficult it is.

The capability of manned space flight became a necessity ever since we started becoming dependent on satellites. As multiple missions to Hubble have shown, sometimes you have to go up and repair broken equipment. Not everything goes according to plan (difficulty getting access doors open). Having a human there, capable of improvisation in unplanned situations increases the chances of success.

10/31/2009 10:17:52 AM

setemup

11/2/2009 10:56:54 AM