if you can do magic go make a million dollars http://www.randi.org

1/12/2010 2:49:33 PM

OMG MAGIC IS TEH REALZ! I GOT ACCEPTED TO HOGWARTS!

1/12/2010 3:15:52 PM

there's no way he's not trolling you guys

1/12/2010 3:18:26 PM

I can't tell who's trolling and who's not, but I wold like to echo what a few other people in the thread have mentioned. If you, or anyone you know, is capable of performing any sort of magic, psychic abilities, ESP, or anything else supernatural you can think of, the James Randi Educational Foundation will give you a million dollars if you can prove it.

disco_stu already posted the link on the last page, but if you missed it, it's:

http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/1m-challenge.html

To recap, they have already set aside the money with the third-party accounting firm Goldman-Sachs, and the account currently sits at $1.148 million. The JREF will work with you to design a test that both you and they are happy with before it begins, and if you pass, the money is all yours. The money has never been claimed, though not for lack of trying by many people...

1/12/2010 6:03:00 PM

Them Haitians know that fuckin voodoo bullshit

thats magic


a magical chopper

1/12/2010 6:15:19 PM

Quote :

"that's just one example (of humans being able to do supernatural things). which followed from something I said before it: humans can do amazing things, that science can't explain. So I didn't say it was magic, just that there are a lot of things that some humans can do (and some non-human phenomenon as well) that can't be explained by our science. "

haha

science definitely can explain the monks/Navy seals ability to regulate their body temperature. One of the facets of this technique is just subtle flexing your ab muscles, this keeps your core temperature up. That’s not magic.

Quote :

"Anyway, again, HOW DO YOU KNOW IT IS NOT REAL? Yes, most likely not real, but there is enough anecdotal evidence from the past couple of thousand years to doubt that such things are bogus."

I know it is not real, because no one can perform those techniques reliably. If they could, more people would. “Anecdotal evidence” from thousands of years ago is extremely unreliable. I can go to a magic show, and I can’t always explain what types of trickery is used (false thumbs, boxes with false bottoms, trap doors, fake audience members,etc), but it is definitely trickery. A person from a thousand of years ago without the benefit of internet, television, or any mass media is going to be significantly more likely to believe the trick of a magician. For that matter, i swore up and down from 2nd grade to probably 6th grade that leprechauns were real because of a convincing trick my teachers played on us when I was in 2nd grade. That doens’t mean leprechauns were real, that means that I was a gullible naive child.

Quote :

"So, how does that website make money? They give a 90 day money back guarantee. If everybody who buys stuff from there ends up returning it, how do they make money? "

Is this a serious question? How does any moneyback guarantee work? Most people who buy it are going to be too lazy to bother returning it, or they bought it for pure entertainment value in the first place. Without knowing the content of the books, they may place some mind games by saying “if the techniques don’t work, it’s because your chi isn’t good enougH” or something that defers failure from the techniques themselves.

1/12/2010 6:31:14 PM

Quote :

" Or perhaps maybe the mind has the power to alter physical reality..... maybe other forms of energy that we can't yet quantify exist. There are SO many stories out there about some kind of "supernatural" or "magical" phenomena, that I can just not imagine every single one of them being fabricated. I was reading about that one experiment with the water crystals being analyzed based on external emotional stimuli..... is this fake? Maybe, but if it's not, then wow. (If you are unfamiliar here is a quick synopsis: http://www.life-enthusiast.com/twilight/research_emoto.htm."

Haha, i first heard about that water crystal thing in that really terrible movie “everything you think you know is wrong” or something like that.

Rest assured, that water-crystal experiment is entirely bullshit. If the mind could alter physical reality, in the way you’re suggesting, it would only take 1 single person to do this to completely change humanity.

Quote :

"I hope you get some decent replies, but like I said most people are just too arrogant and feel too self-important to believe there could be anything out there beyond the laws that they think the universe plays by. "

Wow, THIS is arrogant. I bet most people in this thread DO believe in things beyond themselves. But magic, as described so far, cannot be real by any stretch.

The scientific community would be the MOST pleasantly surprised of all communities if magic were real.

1/12/2010 6:37:25 PM

Quote :

"Rest assured, that water-crystal experiment is entirely bullshit. If the mind could alter physical reality, in the way you’re suggesting, it would only take 1 single person to do this to completely change humanity."

Whew boy was I worried. Now I can rest assured because you have told me undeniably that cannot be possible. Thank you so much.

Keep in mind I never claimed that was a valid experiment or that the results were real. I really don't think they are. But I am not so arrogant and self-indulged to think that there is absolutely no way in hell that they are true and thus I am smarter than anyone who has any opinion other than me. I'll leave that to jackasses like you.

1/12/2010 7:45:55 PM

Quote :

"Emoto's water crystal experiments consist of exposing water in glasses to different words, pictures, or music, and then freezing and examining the aesthetics of the resulting crystals with microscopic photography."

I just read about this water crystal experiment and if you actually believe in this, then you are mentally insane

^yes I'm talking to you, AbsentMinded

there is absolutely no way in hell that they are true
there is absolutely no way in hell that they are true
there is absolutely no way in hell that they are true
there is absolutely no way in hell that they are true
there is absolutely no way in hell that they are true

[Edited on January 12, 2010 at 7:54 PM. Reason : .]

1/12/2010 7:52:40 PM

That is so clever. Let me write that down, because you are so smart.

Once again, I didn't say it was true. Once again, I don't personally believe it is true. And once again, I will not say that I am 100% sure it is not true nor that it cannot possibly be true.

Statistics proves to us that I can put 100 red marbles in an empty bag, and pull out one marble, and the chance of that marble being blue is not 0%. I don't get this at all, but yet somehow the fine people at NC State teach this. So there is probably some other stuff out there beyond my level of comprehension or understanding. One of those things is why you think you are so smart and everyone else is so dumb. I figure there are probably more though.

1/12/2010 8:07:58 PM

We talking 'bout magic, man. Magic. Not.. not not real shit. Magic.

I mean we talking 'bout magic.

1/12/2010 9:04:54 PM

^^ you probably never understood calculus either, did you?

of course, i'm making the wild assumption that you even made it beyond high school algebra...

1/12/2010 9:21:57 PM

Quote :

"But I am not so arrogant and self-indulged to think that there is absolutely no way in hell that they are true and thus I am smarter than anyone who has any opinion other than me."

That doesn’t make you open-minded, that makes you naive.

If someone performed a verifiable magic ability in front of me, I would change my tune. But no description of magic to ever exist is real, and the books OEPII1 linked to DEFINITELY aren’t real.

Quote :

"Statistics proves to us that I can put 100 red marbles in an empty bag, and pull out one marble, and the chance of that marble being blue is not 0%. I don't get this at all, but yet somehow the fine people at NC State teach this"

seriously? statistics doesn’t say this at all

[Edited on January 12, 2010 at 9:23 PM. Reason : ]

1/12/2010 9:22:37 PM

how is this not in chitchat already?
0EPII1 tried but chitchat is where this thread belongs

i have nothing useful to add to this thread in lounge

1/12/2010 9:31:06 PM

OEPII1, don't you live in the Middle East currently? And, if so, isn't this something you could get in trouble for if someone found out you were doing it?

1/12/2010 9:50:55 PM

Quote :

"Statistics proves to us that I can put 100 red marbles in an empty bag, and pull out one marble, and the chance of that marble being blue is not 0%. I don't get this at all, but yet somehow the fine people at NC State teach this"

FFS... Seriously?

1/12/2010 10:14:21 PM

LOL

this is exactly the type of person who believes in magic, astrology, big foot, lockness monster, ghosts, jews were responsible for 9/11, leprechauns in Mobile,AL, etc.

1/12/2010 10:26:57 PM

glad this has been posted twice, but here it goes again (coincidentally, I happened to already be on the site right now watching Randi's latest youtube update on his cancer treatments)
http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/1m-challenge.html

anyway, good luck OEPII1 - hope you will share your million dollar prize with everyone who supported you

1/13/2010 12:23:36 AM

Quote :

"I'm sort of an agnostic about magic, ghosts, etc."

well said. I think this is how I feel too. I mean I think that it would be impossible to prove it's not real. Just like you can't prove there are no aliens and there is no afterlife.

1/13/2010 1:13:56 AM

ok then.... instead of trying to prove that it's not real, how about some proof that it is real. You know, like some feat or power that cannot be reasonably explained by science or trickery.

Are you "agnostic" about fairies too? Unicorns? Trolls? Hobbits? Teapots orbiting the sun?

1/13/2010 1:23:34 AM

Quote :

"well said. I think this is how I feel too. I mean I think that it would be impossible to prove it's not real. Just like you can't prove there are no aliens and there is no afterlife."

What is the point of this? There are an infinite number of things I could make up that you couldn't prove wasn't real. Should you spend any time whatsoever pondering whether they exist since there is absolutely no proof one way or the other?

Are you also agnostic about powerful alien beings on the other side of the galaxy controlling our every move through subatomic fluctuations? How about unicorns? Santa Claus? How do you know he doesn't really exist, just phased out into a realm that we can't observe?

[Edited on January 13, 2010 at 10:14 AM. Reason : lol, didn't read agentlion's post, sorry for pretty much saying exactly what you said]

1/13/2010 10:13:38 AM

There is so much stupid in this thread.

Sure, OEPTII, magic exists.

If you buy that book, your money will magically disappear! Tada!

1/13/2010 10:22:36 AM

IMO the default status of X is non-existence. You can't simply say, "you can't prove it doesn't exist!" and walk away. Prove X exists or that there is at least a probable chance that it could exist and then we'll talk. As someone once said, "the invisible and the non-existent look surprisingly similar."

1/13/2010 10:24:03 AM

Not to turn this into a soapbox debate but how many of you in here saying there is no way magic is real because there is no proof also believe in God? I dont really see the difference between the two myself.

1/13/2010 10:28:07 AM

If you put money in the collection plate, your money will magically disappear! Tada!

1/13/2010 10:29:55 AM

I think they're both about equally unlikely.

Aliens on the other hand I'm almost 100% sure do exist. Intelligent alien life? probably so. Have we been visited by intelligent extra terrestrial life? Pretty unlikely but not outside the realm of possibility. Are they constantly abducting us for experimentation and sex? About as likely as God and magic.

1/13/2010 10:42:52 AM

It baffles me that university educated people can believe in the existence of magic.

Everything that has ever happened is explainable, or will be explainable, by science.

Also, why does god hate amputees?

1/13/2010 11:21:38 AM

Quote :

"Aliens on the other hand I'm almost 100% sure do exist. Intelligent alien life? probably so. Have we been visited by intelligent extra terrestrial life? Pretty unlikely but not outside the realm of possibility."

It is very likely that intelligent life exists or had at one point existed elsewhere in our Universe. But, assuming that light is the fastest speed you could ever go, the chances that they'll ever ever encounter us is pretty much zero. The distances are just too great and it would be like two bullets hitting each other over the distance of thousands of miles. And the bullets are being shot at random directions in 3-d space. "Not outside the realm of possibility" is being too lenient. "Effectively zero" is more realistic.

Granted, if the aliens had figured out how to break lightspeed, then it's a whole different ballpark, but then, this is back to the realm of hocus pocus. I'm not holding my breath for aliens any more than for unicorns.

Another thing to think about. How long has life been on this planet? At least 3.4 billion years. How long have we been sentient enough to transmit slow ass (compared to the size of the Universe) signals into space? <100 years. If life exists elsewhere in the Universe, it is more likely to be primordial than space-faring. Whee.

1/13/2010 11:38:33 AM

If faster than light travel is not possible then it is effectively zero that we have or ever will encounter another intelligent life form in the universe. However, if it is not, then that changes the whole game. If you can figure out the prerequisites for life (presence of water, certain temperature range, etc.) then you can start to narrow down your search. How many potentially earth-like planets are within our detectable range? NASA says they are optimistic about finding them in the next 4-5 years. If we can detect them, and if FTL travel is possible then it is not outside the realm of possibility. Highly unlikely, oh goodness yes, but not unthinkable.

13.2 billion years is a long time for life to have had a chance to evolve, so something much more developed than us could be out there and might have already figured out this stuff we are still only beginning to tinker with.

1/13/2010 11:52:18 AM

Quote :

"I'm sort of an agnostic about magic, ghosts, etc."

That's fine is you're speaking purely intellectually. If we're talking strictly about proof, then I'm agnostic about magic, ghosts, gods, unicorns, fairies, leprechauns, etc. Can't prove they exist, can't prove they don't.
But do I believe they exist? Do I think they exist?
Shit no.

And do I spend money on books to teach me about them?
Ha.

1/13/2010 12:01:46 PM

This thread would get a lot better if it were moved to Chit Chat

Just sayin

1/13/2010 12:11:52 PM

Quote :

"13.2 billion years is a long time for life to have had a chance to evolve, so something much more developed than us could be out there and might have already figured out this stuff we are still only beginning to tinker with."

But think about that for a second. I'll quote Phil Plait from "Death from the Skies!":

Quote :

"Remember, besides being vast, the galaxy is old. The Milky Way is at least 12 billion years old, and the Sun only 4.6 billion. If we imagine a star like the Sun forming just 100 million years earlier -- a drop in the bucket compared to the age of the galaxy -- then it's not hard to imagine an alien civilization rising many millions of years before humans did. We know that life arose easily enough on Earth; it got started as soon as the bombardment period ended and the surface of the Earth calmed down enough for long-term growth of life to occur. This implies strongly that life takes hold given the smallest opportunity, which in turn means it should be abundant in our galaxy. And, despite a list of disasters epic and sweeping, life on Earth has managed to get this far. We are intelligent, we are technologically advanced, and we are a space-faring species. Where will we be in a hundred million years? Given that stretch of time and space, an alien species really should have knocked on our door by now. "

So where are they?

1/13/2010 12:58:11 PM

Dint Evan and bunch of other people paypal money to order some magic invisibility book from eBay?
I am sure it worked for a few they never posted in tdub again

1/13/2010 2:00:09 PM

^^ If you were an advanced alien race would you want US to know about you? I'm not even sure they'd want to visit this shithole after they got here and saw what's going on...

1/13/2010 2:43:43 PM

^^See the link I posted on the first page.

1/13/2010 3:38:23 PM

I am disturbed by the apparent lack of Gob references in this thread.

1/13/2010 3:45:10 PM

Quote :

"humans can do amazing things, that science can't explain."

I would like to hear about more of these unexplainable human magic tricks

1/13/2010 3:53:17 PM

...................*crickets*

1/13/2010 3:58:09 PM

I'd venture to say that most (if not all) incidences of 'Magic' at the hands of sorcerers, witches, etc. in ancient times were a combination of illusion and pharmacology.

Not to demean the possibility of supernatural or spiritual intervention in the natural world, as someone who does believe in a very real spiritual element to the universe...

I've just not seen convincing evidence that mixing certain elements, words, etc. in a ritual form has had any real (read: external) effect.

Likewise, I'd venture to say something similar about most incidences of 'Demon Possession' were more likely extreme cases of a variety of medical conditions & mental disorders.

But it's always been, as far as I can tell, man's nature to blame the devil first, rather than look at ourselves.

1/13/2010 4:31:47 PM

1/13/2010 4:35:24 PM

I just think there is more out there that we as humans can understand. You know, maybe there isn't magic, honestly I don't think there is real magic, but I mean the only thing any of us have to go on in saying there is no magic is that no one has ever come out and shown they can do magic.

I think there are aliens, but there have never been any actual aliens proven to be seen.

As for all the animals (unicorns, bigfoot) I mean yeah, we can assume that those animals aren't real, but zoologists all over know there are a ton of animals out there that we don't know about.

It's great that we have so much science to prove and disprove things. However, I think science has only gotten us so far in our understanding of everything around us.
I think it's pretty egotistical to think that just cause we have no seen evidence of something yet that we automatically must discredit it.

1/13/2010 7:00:38 PM

Null hypothesis, meet sawahash. sawahash, meet null hypothesis.

Quote :

"I just think there is more out there that we as humans can understand. You know, maybe there isn't magic, honestly I don't think there is real magic, but I mean the only thing any of us have to go on in saying there is no magic is that no one has ever come out and shown they can do magic."

Time to grow up.

1/13/2010 7:18:39 PM

Quote :

"I think it's pretty egotistical to think that just cause we have no seen evidence of something yet that we automatically must discredit it."

For the 1,000,000th time, the burden of proof lies on the person making the positive claim....how hard is that to understand? I dunno about you, but I tend not to buy into bullshit with no evidence.

You call it egotistical, I call it logical

1/13/2010 7:37:01 PM

I think it is pretty egotistical for anyone to think that I can't turn into a unicorn anytime I want. Go ahead, prove that I can't do it.

1/13/2010 7:41:58 PM

1/13/2010 7:59:23 PM

Quote :

"Not to turn this into a soapbox debate but how many of you in here saying there is no way magic is real because there is no proof also believe in God? I dont really see the difference between the two myself. "

I think you'll find a very high correlation between religious folks, and otherwise generally superstitious and supernaturally minded people. Religion and magic/demons/supernatural forces/etc are all types of fanciful thinking. Apart from God himself, the bible encourages this kind of thinking with all the talk about angels, demons, spirits and miracles.

I think you will also find a strong correlation between straight-up atheists ("i don't believe in a god of any kind") and people who don't believe in anything magical or mystical.

Finally, there is a third group - the increasingly popular "spiritual, but not religious" or new-age people. These people are totally fucked - they don't really believe in a "personal god," but they do believe in mystical energies, karma, ESP, and all sorts of bullshit. Generally, they believe in anything with the words "force" or "energy," and recently "quantum," as long as said forces, energies, and quantum phenomenon are said not to be explained by science.

Quote :

"I just think there is more out there that we as humans can understand."

Name something we don't understand, and I'll name you a field of science that is devoted to figuring it out and likely has several plausible theories.

1/13/2010 8:13:06 PM

Making a claim that magic, God, aliens, big foot, unicorns, or any other thing like that is real or fake is unscientific, it can't be proven or disproven. Therefore, trying to take a logical response to something that is illogical is pointless.

I'm simply trying to say that we don't know. We can assume that a lot of those things aren't real because it is logical for us to assume things like that.

If you want to be logical then just accept the fact that there are a lot of things that we don't know and we will probably never know.

Why do we have to concern ourselves with if this stuff is real or not. I mean what the hell, there is an account sitting somewhere with over a million dollars in it to go to the person who can prove there is magic? Why not just say fuck it, we probably won't ever have someone prove there is magic so lets donate this money to people who could use it. Send it to earthquake victims or such, I'm sure they would much rather have clean water right now than knowing if magic is real or fake.

1/13/2010 8:13:54 PM

Quote :

"Making a claim that magic, God, aliens, big foot, unicorns, or any other thing like that is real or fake is unscientific, it can't be proven or disproven."

you can't prove aliens, big foot or unicorns exist? Really? If one showed up on your doorstep, that wouldn't be proof?

God - well, depends how you define god. Many people like to define god as something, by definition, that is unseeable. In that case, you've dug yourself into a logical hole you can't get out of, which is not our problem. You want us to belief God exists - fine, dig up some proof. until then, the null hypothesis stands.

Quote :

"Why do we have to concern ourselves with if this stuff is real or not. I mean what the hell, there is an account sitting somewhere with over a million dollars in it to go to the person who can prove there is magic? Why not just say fuck it, we probably won't ever have someone prove there is magic so lets donate this money to people who could use it. Send it to earthquake victims or such, I'm sure they would much rather have clean water right now than knowing if magic is real or fake."

If magic is real, the powers of said magic will almost certainly be more useful to earthquake victims than $1M.
Any demonstrable feat of magic, ESP, physic powers, etc, could be used for near infinite amounts of good in the world, and they could make those who posses such powers obscenely wealthy.

[Edited on January 13, 2010 at 8:19 PM. Reason : .]

1/13/2010 8:16:29 PM

I mean you can't prove it now because no one has ever found one....obviously if one showed up on the door step you could...but as of right now when there is no evidence of one ever being around no, you cannot prove that they are real.

1/13/2010 8:17:41 PM

1/13/2010 8:21:09 PM