http://www.newsobserver.com/news/wake_county/story/341361.html

Long story short, at some point students discover or assume (based on name and stereotypes) that teacher does not believe in the cristian god. Students start inundating the teacher with religious icons and questioning. Teacher gets mad and vents on facebook. Students and/or parents discover venting, complain to the school and now the teacher is suspended.

It amazes me that people are still getting caught by this. The internet is public people. If you wouldn't stand on a street corner and shout it out to a random stranger, you probably shouldn't put it on the internet. To my mind though, that is the only thing the teachers really did wrong, and unfortunately her case and discipline will be tainted by religious overtones and become more severe, instead of the slap on the wrist she should get for badmouthing her class on a public forum.

To me, the real story here is how blind these students parents are and how their blindness (or willful ignorance) encourages the inappropriate behavior of their children.

I love the comment by the one parent about how she can't imagine teachers having that kind of conversation about their students. Clearly she has never once in her life spent any time around a teacher or for that matter, spent any time in the back room of any public facing job.

But that ignorance is excusable compared to the ignorance displayed by the Annette Balint, as she tries to hide the monstrous behavior of her child and the other students behind a banner of religious persecution or intolerance. How blind she must be to not see what's really going on here.

I, apparently unlike Ms. Balint, remember 8th grade. In fact I remember that we had a teacher whom we all disliked for a number of stupid reasons. And I remember that we made her life a living hell, to the point where she would actually break down and cry both during and after class. Not something I'm particularly proud of, but it does serve to remind me of just how evil and vindictive 8th graders can be. I can assure Ms. Balint that nothing these children were doing, not the post cards, nor the T-Shirts and songs, nor the bible on her desk, and certainly not the religious questions during class were innocent acts of kindness of whatever bullshit she's feeding herself. Her precious snowflake is an antagonist to this teacher, if not an outright monster. Their bibles are not being read during "free time" and she isn't banning the children from mentioning god. What the teacher is trying to do, and failing at, is control her classroom. And it is a real shame that the parents and the teacher don't have a good enough dialogue to get these issues addressed. But with the parents as blind as they are, it is no surprise, and that assume of course that the parents are actively encouraging this.

This whole incident is an embarrassment and hopefully the school will see the truth in this matter and the teacher in question will be allowed to resume her work, preferably with the instigators removed and properly punished as well.

2/16/2010 1:16:53 PM

[Edited on February 16, 2010 at 1:30 PM. Reason : d]

2/16/2010 1:21:16 PM

Quote :

"I, apparently unlike Ms. Balint, remember 8th grade. In fact I remember that we had a teacher whom we all disliked for a number of stupid reasons. And I remember that we made her life a living hell, to the point where she would actually break down and cry both during and after class. Not something I'm particularly proud of, but it does serve to remind me of just how evil and vindictive 8th graders can be."

this sounds about right

2/16/2010 1:24:54 PM

[Edited on February 16, 2010 at 1:31 PM. Reason : ninja edit]

2/16/2010 1:31:06 PM

Quote :

"You just wrote a long ass essay to basically say "fuck religion""

If that's what you got out of that, you should probably spend some time looking at my post history. I'll be one of the last people on this site to say "fuck religion". I will however, proudly say "fuck idiots" regardless of how they show their idiocy.

[Edited on February 16, 2010 at 1:52 PM. Reason : after reading your other posts, I proudly say "fuck pack_bryan"]

2/16/2010 1:31:38 PM

Hussain

I think I see the problem

if she called them "ignorant southern rednecks," despite the fact they they probably deserved it, that may warrant a censuring of some kind. That's nearly the same as saying "nigger" or "spic" depending on the context.

2/16/2010 2:08:23 PM

Quote :

"if she called them "ignorant southern rednecks," "

article makes it sound like it was her friends on facebook making that comment, not her. Unless she said more on facebook than is being reported I think she'll be back teaching soon.

2/16/2010 2:23:00 PM

Quote :

"In Hussain's case, the comments in question were on the public side of her Facebook page."

Is she stupid? Ignorant? Oblivious of the how society functions? Oblivious to human nature?

While I side with her, actively and publicly denigrating students and their parents WILL and SHOULD get you into trouble.

2/16/2010 2:27:30 PM

If she was believing in a false god(s), or no god at all... well they were probably just loving the sinner and hating the sin.

2/16/2010 2:31:58 PM

I sometimes think that -- given how popular these sites are -- there should be some memo about proper protocol and things that will likely get you in trouble.

Still, I find the shock and horror at many of her comments ridiculous. Obviously the stuff about rednecks and anything involving a swastika are inappropriate, but a parent feeling violated due to a common complaint among teachers (the parents that call in over a B) is a little over the top. Still, I understand when someone asks you about your opinion and you know that opinion will be published, you have to say something worthwhile.

I side with the teacher in that she was unfairly treated, but the comments she made should never have been made in any sort of public forum. It's something that you might laugh about with friends while destressing, but posting about it is just inviting trouble. My accounts are set mostly to private, and I never post anything about students in particular other than the positive or generalized annoyances about needing to grade mountains of papers.

[Edited on February 16, 2010 at 2:38 PM. Reason : .]

2/16/2010 2:37:51 PM

Quote :

"if she called them "ignorant southern rednecks," despite the fact they they probably deserved it, that may warrant a censuring of some kind. That's nearly the same as saying "nigger" or "spic" depending on the context."

Not even close.

2/16/2010 2:37:55 PM

I wholly support this teacher's right to free speech. Unless she identified specific students in her rant or advocated illegal activities, she has done no wrong.

While I understand the need for teachers to be model citizens for the sake of impressionable young minds, I think a line is crossed where the ristriction of freedom outweighs any perceived benefit to the children.

Granted, she sounds like a self-righteous bitch who's easily affronted by Christians, or it could be this:

Quote :

""I, apparently unlike Ms. Balint, remember 8th grade. In fact I remember that we had a teacher whom we all disliked for a number of stupid reasons. And I remember that we made her life a living hell, to the point where she would actually break down and cry both during and after class. Not something I'm particularly proud of, but it does serve to remind me of just how evil and vindictive 8th graders can be.""

2/16/2010 2:48:00 PM

The problem I took from this was that she made the "meeting" she was having with her student public knowledge. If there is to be any type of disciple or student/parent conference, that doesn't need to go on your facebook page. Certainly not a public one.

I got this information from the WRAL article, which included:

Quote :

"The parent said Hussain then wrote, “I have a meeting with the (possible) Bible boy on Monday … Heaven help him, I am still so mad at that child!”"

http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/7041186/

[Edited on February 16, 2010 at 2:50 PM. Reason : ]

2/16/2010 2:48:23 PM

Quote :

"While I understand the need for teachers to be model citizens for the sake of impressionable young minds, I think a line is crossed where the ristriction of freedom outweighs any perceived benefit to the children."

I agree. While I hold a position of responsibility and I strive to model exemplary behavior, I know that I'm not held to the same standards as another profession. I can understand why that is, but it remains frustrating.

Quote :

"The problem I took from this was that she made the "meeting" she was having with her student public knowledge. If there is to be any type of disciple or student/parent conference, that doesn't need to go on your facebook page. Certainly not a public one."

It doesn't need to, but I don't believe it warrants any discipline action beyond, "I noticed this. You shouldn't be posting these sorts of comments." I think the issue is that it's not that someone in-house noticed and brought it to the attention of the administrative staff; it's that a student or parent discovered it and demanded retribution. In that case, there's pressure on the school to do something about the teacher, i.e. suspend her.

On a related note, I remember hearing in high school that if a teacher and student were involved in a physical altercation of some kind then the teacher would be suspended with pay while the circumstances were investigated. I wonder if she's being paid; I don't remember if they explained it in the article.

2/16/2010 2:59:05 PM

She was suspended with pay, and I think only for 5 days.

2/16/2010 3:04:57 PM

sweet, 5 day paid vacation!

the only thing this teacher did wrong was leave her facebook profile public.

2/16/2010 3:10:32 PM

Then that's not so bad; although, it sucks having to send in sub plans. I'm sure I'd be offended/irate if it were me, but in the way of lasting punishments that's not nearly as worrisome as having a note about the incident placed in your county file.

2/16/2010 3:10:48 PM

If this was a christian teacher and muslim students were harassing her about her religious beliefs none of this would have been an issue.

2/16/2010 3:12:20 PM

In that case all of the students would have been expelled.

2/16/2010 3:14:23 PM

If she were a talking elephant, this wouldn't have been an issue.

2/16/2010 3:18:46 PM

Bad move on the teacher's part.

But the fact that she's getting any punishment beyond a warning is ridiculous. It looks like her friends are the ones who really crossed the line.

When she gets back, things will be ten times worse. The kids will have had a sub for a week, which fosters chaos, and the kids will feel invincible. And she's clearly not going to get any support from her administration, since they appear to be the type that roll over for parents.

2/16/2010 3:37:15 PM

Quote :

""if she called them "ignorant southern rednecks," despite the fact they they probably deserved it, that may warrant a censuring of some kind. That's nearly the same as saying "nigger" or "spic" depending on the context." Not even close."

Actually its the exact same fucking thing. She is applying a broad and negative stereo-type term based on their race/religion in this case.

[Edited on February 16, 2010 at 3:50 PM. Reason : if she actually said it, that is]

2/16/2010 3:50:17 PM

Redneck does not carry the same connotation as nigger. Never.

Jeff Foxworthy is testimony to this.

[Edited on February 16, 2010 at 3:52 PM. Reason : ]

2/16/2010 3:52:05 PM

^ Chris Rock and just about every modern rap artist are proof to the contrary.

2/16/2010 3:54:20 PM

^^so redneck is used by comedians and nigger isnt?

Gotcha

[Edited on February 16, 2010 at 3:56 PM. Reason : *]

2/16/2010 3:55:34 PM

Which one of those can be said on national television without anyone blinking an eye?

2/16/2010 3:58:27 PM

For fucks sake people.

Redneck is a disparaging term, but it isn't a racial slur.

2/16/2010 4:00:19 PM

^^Do you define cable TV as national TV?

Besides, that you can't say it on broadcast TV is hardly and indicator of public impact. See 7 Dirty Words for more on that subject.

^ True, but it also doesn't have nearly the impact it did years ago, and eventually will probably fall into the same category of insult

Oddly enough, even "racial slur" isn't enough of a label to describe that particular word, which seems to be afforded magical status. We don't say "the K-Word", or "the M-Word" or "the G-Word" or any other euphemisms for a number of racial slurs.

The amount of power we as a society give and continue to give that word is really interesting, and honestly probably a good indicator of where race relations are at.

[Edited on February 16, 2010 at 4:12 PM. Reason : sdf]

2/16/2010 4:01:36 PM

What bearing does that have on it when its used to negatively stereotype a person? You're dancing around the issue and you know it.

in the context used here, which was specifically noted in morons post, the term was used to derogatorily towards a group because of their race/religion. you could change the kids to hispanic and the term to spic and it would be the same thing.

2/16/2010 4:10:38 PM

c'mon, do you really think it's fair to treat all races equally in terms of racial slurs towards them? I mean, what are you expecting, equality or something?

In before "the plight of the rich white man".

2/16/2010 4:21:41 PM

Quote :

"God: Not even close."

Somewhat close.

I had a friend who was saying similar things (white trash, rednecks, bamas, etc...), and those words kept popping up in conversation very close to mentions of my family. And it hurt. That hurt wasn't exacerbated by hundreds of years of institutionalized racism, but it still hurt especially since we are such good friends.

And those words are absolutely classist and racist. Now I don't think I'm going to make a thing of it and start correcting people when they say "redneck," but I know I'm not going to use those words anymore (I used to use them sparingly).

[Edited on February 16, 2010 at 4:31 PM. Reason : I guess "bama" is more strictly classist, but I mainly hear it about white people.]

2/16/2010 4:24:57 PM

"Redneck" has never been used as a disparaging blanket term for white people, christians, or white christians. Thus, it is fundamentally different from words like "wasp" or "nigger".

2/16/2010 4:36:15 PM

Somehow, I think if she had been going on about stupid WASPs it still wouldn't be as big of a deal in your mind, which as I said is an interesting trait of the american public.

But all this is really off topic at this point, because she wasn't the one making those comments anyway.

2/16/2010 4:41:35 PM

^^AHAHA, so since they add in an element of classism, and only use it for less affluent, white people, then it can't be a racial slur?

The racial slur database and wiki's list of ethnic slurs contradict you, but whatever, suppose you're right...

I'm gonna start calling less affluent black people "porch monkeys," and I hope everybody understands that I'm not using a racial slur. I'm just being "disparaging." There's a difference, according to Lumex.

[Edited on February 16, 2010 at 4:47 PM. Reason : less affluent]

2/16/2010 4:45:45 PM

Quote :

""Redneck" has never been used as a disparaging blanket term for white people, christians, or white christians. Thus, it is fundamentally different from words like "wasp" or "nigger"."

It depends on the context. Just like saying "nigga" depends on the context.

And it seems that in the context it was used, it was definitely meant to be demeaning.

While it's true it's not generally a disparaging blanket term, it sometimes can be, and it may have been in this case.

In any case, i think it's mostly a moot point if it wasn't the teacher in particular typing in out. She can't be responsible for her acquaintances' comments about her problems online.

[Edited on February 16, 2010 at 7:12 PM. Reason : ]

2/16/2010 7:11:35 PM

from what i understand it was dialogue between the teacher and her friends that got her in so much hot water. and i'm not even sure it was her comments specifically. i definitely think she handled it the wrong way, this is a VERY serious issue and should have been dealt with seriously. despite that i dont believe she should lose her job but should be reprimanded (severely?)

[Edited on February 16, 2010 at 7:20 PM. Reason : ]

2/16/2010 7:15:36 PM

Quote :

" I'm gonna start calling less affluent black people "porch monkeys," and I hope everybody understands that I'm not using a racial slur. I'm just being "disparaging." There's a difference, according to Lumex."

pwnt

2/16/2010 8:02:51 PM

http://www.cnn.com/2010/TECH/ptech/02/16/facebook.speech.ruling/

Quote :

"A former Florida high school student who was suspended by her principal after she set up a Facebook page to criticize her teacher is protected constitutionally under the First Amendment, a federal magistrate ruled. ... In his order, Garber found that the student had a constitutional right to express her views on the social networking site. "Evans' speech falls under the wide umbrella of protected speech," he wrote. "It was an opinion of a student about a teacher, that was published off-campus ... was not lewd, vulgar, threatening, or advocating illegal or dangerous behavior.""

2/16/2010 9:10:24 PM

teachers definitely sign something when they take the job that would not allow them to do such a thing ^

[Edited on February 16, 2010 at 9:53 PM. Reason : ]

2/16/2010 9:27:29 PM

this teacher's an idiot. if i had kids i would hate for them to have a teacher who thought they were stupid rednecks. clearly, this teacher has established a classroom environment where it's me vs them, and that's never productive. Yeah these kids sound like little dicks, but they also sound like 8TH GRADERS! if you can't laugh off the fact that a kid left a Bible on your desk and underlined the word Christ, you shouldn't be teaching. But I don't know, maybe Wake County teachers are pampered like that or something.

2/16/2010 9:43:15 PM

^ This isn't an isolated incident. Per the article, it has been going on for a few months now, and escalating. The environment may be teacher vs student, but I assure you it was the students who established that dynamic, not the teacher.

2/16/2010 9:58:14 PM

Obviously the class of 8th graders (14 year old boys) is full of little angels that would never do any wrong. This teacher is seriously just picking on these kids.

I think the pendulum of "think of the children ZOMG" has gone way to far. Honestly, even in my work place i feel slightly discriminated against for not having kids.

[Edited on February 16, 2010 at 10:33 PM. Reason : ,]

2/16/2010 10:31:39 PM

This teacher has screwed up for several reasons. First, never make your Facebook page public. I have a Facebook page, and it has always been private. Secondly, don't put up anything about work even if it's private that you wouldn't feel comfortable with other people knowing. Nothing about drinking, drugs, pictures of you doing highly inappropriate things, etc. Thirdly, she clearly has no classroom management if she is allowing the kids to dictate what happens in her classroom. I can understand a teacher who has unruly kids, but when "gifts" are left on her desk as a suggestion or help of some kind to convert her, then she hasn't clearly dictated to the students that her beliefs are unshakable and not for a bunch of 14 year olds to influence.

All that being said, these kids are (apparently) rude and disrespectful, and the blame lies with them and their parents. If this scenario were reversed and it was a group of Muslim, Jewish, or Hindu kids trying to convert a Christian teacher, the outrage from the community would be tremendous. A lot of the young people in North Carolina are very closed minded and not open to the idea of religious tolerance. A lot of ADULTS in North Carolina are the same way. I always tell my students there are three things that I will never discuss with them: my personal politics, my personal religion, and my personal life (read---who I am dating). I am responsible for objectively teaching them about politics and religion, and also educating them about character issues related to their own personal lives, but I never involve my own because it is none of their business, and I don't want my personal views to influence their thinking.

All in all it sounds like a bad job of a teacher dealing with a bunch of ignorant kids, but I could be wrong on both counts. Either way, suspending her seems like it is a huge overreaction, and if I were in her shoes, I would contact my attorney and/or NCAE representative, if she has one.

2/16/2010 10:37:57 PM

Quote :

"The environment may be teacher vs student, but I assure you it was the students who established that dynamic, not the teacher."

you've obviously never taught. students almost always look to establish that dynamic. it's the teacher's job to prevent that from happening.

2/16/2010 10:38:17 PM

the actions of these children should certainly not be disregarded, perhaps they should even be punished, but bottom line, this teacher was completely unprofessional for carrying on a dialogue over facebook regarding the issue. i scanned the article earlier this morning so i'm not sure if it mentioned anything about her documenting the incidents and/or meeting with the principal about it at any point but that should have been done a long time ago

2/16/2010 10:38:47 PM

^yes, the actions should be punished. by the teacher. they should have been punished a long time ago before it came to this. judging from what's available in the article, her classroom management is nonexistent.

2/16/2010 10:40:48 PM

^ Please, when I was one of these monsters, the teacher had very few options for effectively controlling the situation, these days it's a lot worse. And it's clear from the article that the parents of these monsters have no clue that their children are anything other than perfect angels, it's also clear that she'll see fall out from any line drawing (see the comments about "banning god" and the students having "the right" to wear the T-shirts and sing their songs).

I agree that the teacher needs to learn better classroom management skills, but that will only come from experience, and ultimately all of the classroom management skills in the world are useless if your entire (or most of) your class is set against you, and the parents are as ignorant as these.

2/17/2010 12:39:06 AM

It is true that it takes experience, and it's entirely possible that because this teacher is in the first few years of teaching, that may be why she lacks classroom management. However, any group of students, no matter how unruly, can be managed.

2/17/2010 1:08:04 AM

^^wrong. experience definitely helps. but improvement doesn't come only from experience. there's a thousands of books, mentors, conferences, forums, online articles, etc. written on the topic.

and also...come on, this is wake county we're talking about. it's not she walked into a classroom from the set of dangerous minds here people.

2/17/2010 6:28:47 AM

^^ That's true up to a point, but there is a certain tipping point within a classroom, whereby if enough and the right students have no respect for the teacher in question, then control is all but impossible without external influence of some sort, whether it is a good dialogue with the parents (which clearly there wasn't here) or a significant punishment option available to the school (which again, there really aren't these days).

^ There are also books, mentors, forums and conferences on driving an F1 race car and flying a plane, yet it is experience which actually defines the skills possessed, so it is with classroom management.

She also doesn't need to walk into a classroom from dangerous minds, just a classroom of bored, vindictive 8th graders who have decided they have no respect for her. In my case, none of us were real problem children, and though there were a few of the usual suspects involved, it was the fact that even the diligent and hard working kids also had no respect for the teacher that dissolved the situation into something akin to a piranha feeding frenzy.

2/17/2010 7:36:20 AM