My wife and I are finally getting a dog. We are buying a Cavalier King Charles Spaniel from a very reputable breeder. This breed, like most breeds, has certain genetic illnesses that can develop over time. Knowing how expensive hospitalization is, I'd just assume get pet insurance so I dont have to worry about a $6000 vet bill (I know too many people that have had them).

With that said, Embrace seems to be the best I have found. They cover genetic disorders, dont follow a benefit schedule, and have no lifetime benefit caps.

Are there Vets or consumers on this board that have an opinion on this or other pet insurance carriers? I really want the 'cadillac' plan for the dog and would love to know what people this is the best.

2/22/2010 11:30:50 AM

Just put a your money away in a CD or high interest savings account.

That way if you never have an expensive bill, or your dog is struck by a car and can't be saved with any treatment, you will have a lot of money that you can spend on something else.

[Edited on February 22, 2010 at 11:42 AM. Reason : That wasn't used/wasted on pet insurance.]

2/22/2010 11:41:46 AM

I am not getting insurance to be a piggy bank. I am getting insurance to hedge my bet for potential losses above and beyond what I could save if the animal becomes very sick. The premium is about 50 a month. I know too many people that have spent thousands of dollars on sick dogs. I dont intend on being one of those. With today's advanced treatments, it makes sense to get insurance just like you would personal health coverage.

2/22/2010 12:37:42 PM

have you received any info on the health of the parents? Have they been checked for genetic disorders/displayed signs of disorders/or are descendants of dogs with disorders?

If it is a reputable breeder that cares about the health of the pups (which it sounds like) all of that should be shown up front. If the parents have no issues then the chances of the pup having an issue is pretty slim until much later in life. With that being said I would recommend insurance, although $50 a month is very steep.

^^ I dont think thats a good solution because he may need to pay for multiple services, not just one that may cost $6,000. Like the OP said, it's just like health insurance. Putting away $6000 may not be enough.

[Edited on February 22, 2010 at 12:45 PM. Reason : ^]

2/22/2010 12:45:28 PM

Quote :

"The premium is about 50 a month. I know too many people that have spent thousands of dollars on sick dogs. I dont intend on being one of those."

Tough call. Insurance seems to be a good way to go, but isn't it likely that 10 years from now, the dog could be perfectly healthy and you'd have spent $6000?

I'd probably opt for a HSA of some sort. Is there such a thing tailored for pets?

2/22/2010 12:47:02 PM

yeah, I dont care about the $6000 that I used for a hedge, anymore than I care about the $3000 I have spent on homeowners the last few years or much more on automobile that hasnt been paid out.

Insurance is meant to associate a fixed cost to a variable risk

wahoowa: I am going to meet the breeder on Friday. We'll be going over all of that then in more detail. The puppy we plan on adopting isnt even born yet, but I get everything lined up ahead of time.

2/22/2010 12:58:18 PM

A $6k vet bill? Seriously?

I have had dogs my entire life and have never paid a vet bill over $300. The most I have ever even been proposed was $700 to repair a torn ACL in my last dog, which I declined and he healed just fine on his own. If my vet ever came to me and said it would cost $6k to cure my dog, my dog would get the needle.

[Edited on February 22, 2010 at 1:02 PM. Reason : a]

2/22/2010 1:01:47 PM

lol, HSA for pets.

2/22/2010 1:02:39 PM

My cousin just spent over 20k in chemo (they have significant financial means). I had another friend that needed some major hip surgery for their dog that ran 4k. Countless other examples of the years of people I know that had major money sunk into a dog.

My wife will bankrupt us to save the puppy, so I'd just assume not have that happen.

2/22/2010 1:06:52 PM

Hip replacement is $3k and up a hip. Only a problem for a larger dog, but I'd pay it no problem for a working dog. For a pet it'd depend on my financial situation at the time.

2/22/2010 1:29:26 PM

Veterinary Pet Insurance (VPI): http://www.petinsurance.com

The American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals (ASPCA) Pet Insurance: http://www.aspcapetinsurance.com/

Are the only two I ever saw people use when I used to work at a vet clinic in Carrboro, NC. Most people who had it seemed happy with it. More people used VPI than ASPCA by alot, and I think VPI maybe had a wider range of plans, but I don't know any of the specifics for the plans. Those 2 might be worth looking into though if you haven't checked them out already.

I believe they both worked such that you paid the full price upfront and then submitted your reimbursement form that the vet signed off for, along with a copy of your receipt, and sometimes a copy of the doctor's notes from a given visit.

Working at a vet clinic, you know the names of every person and pet who has pet insurance, because they're the ones who feel comfortable coming in any time a pet gets sick since they don't have to worry about major costs. So many clients use the wait and see approach to minor health problems, which often works, but when it doesn't they end up paying a lot more.

I've seen puppies die because owners have tried the wait and see approach on parvo & so it wasn't diagnosed until it was too late, or people who won't buy a monthly heartworm preventative and then end up dropping way more money on heartworm treatment for their dog. In so far as having pet insurance encourages preventative medicine, I am all for it.

2/22/2010 1:29:46 PM

I used to have VPI but then I dropped it b/c it wasn't worth it. Then again I own a breed that isn't susceptible to genetic medical problems.

Most expensive vet bill to date (after dropping VPI) has been $800 (dog got really sick, I'm pretty sure a negligent ex-roommate was to blame ).

Do I wish I still had VPI? Heck no, imo its a rip off. But if you're gonna buy some fancy dog with all sorts of genetic problems I'd definitely get dog insurance, and VPI was pretty good for what it was.

2/22/2010 1:37:55 PM

Quote :

"I've seen puppies die because owners have tried the wait and see approach on parvo & so it wasn't diagnosed until it was too late, or people who won't buy a monthly heartworm preventative and then end up dropping way more money on heartworm treatment for their dog. In so far as having pet insurance encourages preventative medicine, I am all for it."

This is the main reason I am all for pet insurance. I worked at a vet as well and there were quite a few times where people wanted to put the dog down because they could not afford treatment...even simple things like broken bones. Pet insurance is not very expensive (skip that cup of coffee from Starbucks and its easily affordable) and it helps give them a great life, and takes the worry off the owners.

[Edited on February 22, 2010 at 1:38 PM. Reason : a]

2/22/2010 1:37:58 PM

Quote :

"Hip replacement is $3k and up a hip. Only a problem for a larger dog, but I'd pay it no problem for a working dog. For a pet it'd depend on my financial situation at the time."

what?! my vet* quoted $550-600 per hip...

hell, it only cost $1400 to get my dog's elbow fixed. it was a very delicate and difficult procedure. i took her to a specialist in cary to have it done too. we asked him why the elbow surgery was so much more than a full hip replacement. he said that hip replacements in dogs are an everyday, piece of cake kind of thing now, and that's why they're so cheap.

*my regular vet gave me the quote (he does them in-office). i don't know what the specialist charges for the same thing but it was < $3000.

[Edited on February 22, 2010 at 1:41 PM. Reason : ]

2/22/2010 1:38:31 PM

Quote :

"My cousin just spent over 20k in chemo "

I know nothing about pet/vet bills, but was this for real? 20K on a dog? Details?

2/22/2010 2:11:30 PM

In fairness here, there are a ton of variables to the cost of any surgery. Could mean a hip replacement for one dog is $500, and the other is $3000.

2/22/2010 2:11:33 PM

The problem with a lot of the pet insurance plans are they won't cover your dog when it's really going to matter. I think when I looked into it, VPI wouldn't cover any dog older than 10 years. They also won't cover any hereditary illnesses.

2/22/2010 2:37:29 PM

The cost also depends on the size of the implant. For an 80lb working dog you need something incredibly heavy duty because they will do what they want, like jumping 5 feet in the air. It's going to take a lot more abuse than the average couch potato dog.

I priced it out several years ago, I guess the price has dropped some since then because more vets are doing them. Not too long ago it was only something specialists did.

2/22/2010 2:41:21 PM

the dog is 65lbs.

2/22/2010 2:54:00 PM

Damn, $6000 vet bill? I have the only insurance you need right here:



[Edited on February 22, 2010 at 3:05 PM. Reason : ]

2/22/2010 3:05:40 PM

Save your $$ and go adopt a dog from a rescue or the SPCA.

Find a dog that actually NEEDS a home not produced by some dog factory to make $$ of off people.....

2/22/2010 3:19:44 PM

Quote :

"The problem with a lot of the pet insurance plans are they won't cover your dog when it's really going to matter. I think when I looked into it, VPI wouldn't cover any dog older than 10 years. They also won't cover any hereditary illnesses."

Embrace does. Thats why they are on the top of my list. VPI insurance has looked like crap to me from the beginning. Looks like its just the old standard that has been around for a long time, but it isnt that good. Generic disorder coverage was the most important for me.

Keb, I'm not getting a factory puppy. I want a pure breed, with papers, plain and simple.

[Edited on February 22, 2010 at 3:21 PM. Reason : .]

2/22/2010 3:20:17 PM

Just went though Embrace's quote and got $45/month (no Rx or wellness) for that spaniel. That's with a $10k annual maximum payout (the max max being 15k for +$16/mo), $200 cyd, and 10% copay. In the event your dog needs $20k worth of diagnosis/chemo, they'd pay out a max of $10k assuming it goes from diagnosis to fully cured in 1 year due to the chronic illness clause. Conditions (or complications due to conditions) persisting more than 1 year only pay out at 1/4 of the annual max. So if your dog get's really, really sick, it sounds like you're going bankrupt either way. Oh yeah and the wellness adds $15/month which is what pays for vet visits and about the same to add the Rx.

Quote :

"yeah, I dont care about the $6000 that I used for a hedge, anymore than I care about the $3000 I have spent on homeowners the last few years or much more on automobile that hasnt been paid out."

Unless you outright own your home, you have to have homeowners insurance and you are also required to have liability auto insurance at the very least, so I'm not sure those are good comparisons. Both of those are also relatively cheap compared to how much they will pay out (that $45/mo is about what I pay on a $140k house with more than just bare minimum coverage or $70/month for auto liability and collision, again more than the bare min, maxing out in the $100s of thousands per accident). You couldn't get anywhere near any of those numbers out of that pet insurance unless your dog had multiple, unrelated, severe illnesses/accidents over the course of several years as opposed to a single event in the case of homeowners/auto insurance.

[Edited on February 22, 2010 at 3:22 PM. Reason : ]

2/22/2010 3:20:38 PM

I was only mentioning the chemo example above to show how expensive it can be. I dont expect to keep the puppy around if that happens. Wouldnt be good for him or me. But there are some other disorders that are treatable, but expensive. That is what I am concerned about.

I own several homes, and two are paid off. They are fully covered. Its really dumb to have something as expensive as a home and not cover it for loss. Too much to gamble.

look, this is getting into a diatribe about if to get or not to get pet insurance. I've already made up my decision to get it. If you dont have personal experience regarding the actual purchase of pet insurance, you arent providing me with much information.

2/22/2010 3:25:58 PM

Quote :

" I know too many people that have spent thousands of dollars on sick dogs. I dont intend on being one of those. "

Easy. Don't get a dog that you know is prone to $$$$ problems.

Quote :

"A $6k vet bill? Seriously? "

Yeah
My husband has a cocker spaniel. Total ear ablation: $2500/ear. The alternative to not having it done was euthanasia. Both ears have been done. We still spend a fuckton on other health problems associated with the breed.

Quote :

"Save your $$ and go adopt a dog from a rescue or the SPCA. "

A. Fucking. Men.
1) That damn spaniel was a shelter dog. That his ex decided she didn't want to keep, when they broke up. Owing to his behavior and mannerisms, we actually think he may have been a show dog.
2) We used to say 'no more purebreds'. Then my mother-in-law emailed us about a husky that was a stray, and dammit, now we have another purebred...one whose biggest health problem is likely to be a hip problem. At least that's not as likely to run up a couple thou a year in maintenance vet visits.
3) Actually paying for a dog from a breeder...what the hell are you thinking?


Mutts are the best!

2/22/2010 3:35:12 PM

Quote :

"Easy. Don't get a dog that you know is prone to $$$$ problems. "

yeah, because we know if you get something from the pound or a mutt, they are guaranteed to be free of health issues

I simply dont want a mutt. Plain and simple. And I certainly dont want a pure breed from a shelter that I don't know their history. Then you are just asking for major problems. Its a matter of taste. I donate to the ASPCA, and almost always donate to shelters at the pet store when I buy food. I do my part.

2/22/2010 3:46:15 PM

as long as the breeder is responsible and breeds for the betterment of the breed then go for it. Some people know exactly what they want in a dog and get the breed that fits their lifestyle. You cant get that with a shelter dog because you dont know what you are getting. And the breeder's health records of the parents can give a very good indication of the future health of the pup making it less risky than a mutt.

Ive only had mutts, which have been great (my current one is almost 15 and very healthy), but my next dog will be a Doberman based upon their breed qualities, energy level, and maintenance.




[Edited on February 22, 2010 at 5:27 PM. Reason : a]

2/22/2010 5:24:26 PM

Quote :

"My wife and I are finally getting a dog. We are buying a Cavalier King Charles Spaniel "

Surrender your man card

2/22/2010 5:29:28 PM

I'm getting a Miniature Pinscher in a few months
Then I'll be considering something similar myself. Though I don't know if I'll do the insurance though. My current belief is in a $1k vet bill max.

2/22/2010 5:44:42 PM

Quote :

" Surrender your man card "

Hehe, yeah. But this was actually a compromise. She wanted a golden doodle, which is really an overpriced mutt. I dont want a big dog. I had considered an Airedale terrier which I think are some of the coolest looking dogs out there, but it doesnt match my desired energy level or lifestyle.

2/22/2010 6:58:13 PM

[Edited on February 22, 2010 at 6:58 PM. Reason : oops]

2/22/2010 6:58:13 PM

i have pet insurance for my dog thru banfield.....i have the cheapest option ($20/mth) they have BUT i talked to a couple people at the vet who also have banfield pet insurance...they had the bare minimum plan like i have, then their dog ended up getting sick and needed surgery, so they called the insurance that day and upgraded so they were able to get the full benefits that same day....which is what im going to do....if i ever need.

[Edited on February 22, 2010 at 7:21 PM. Reason : /]

2/22/2010 7:20:30 PM

Quote :

"My cousin just spent over 20k in chemo "

For a dog?! And I thought the $1500 my parents paid when their cat shattered his pelvis was $texas.

2/22/2010 7:55:47 PM

Yeah, I think all of us thought they were off their rocker. It was a golden retriever and only about 4 years old. Super sweet dog. Their dogs are their kids, and do whatever is needed to take care of them. They extended his life over a year and a half when the doc gave it about 3 months...

Now, I'd probably cry like hell, but if the illness is terminal, I probably wouldnt have put myself or the dog through the initial stress.

2/22/2010 8:00:33 PM

most people probably wouldn't go for my method, but when we got our dogs, I told my wife that $1000 was the limit on any single instance of medical care, and anything above that would result in me having the dog put to sleep.

Of course I did not want dogs, so...

2/22/2010 11:41:50 PM

^ I think that:s pretty reasonable.

2/23/2010 1:08:22 AM

^^ agreed..... 1k is plenty of money to spend on a dog.....unless its one of those dogs that cost a whole hell of a lot to buy in the first place.....

I wouldn't pay 20k on a golden retriever....not even if i had Bill Gates' money

2/23/2010 1:37:09 AM

Quote :

"most people probably wouldn't go for my method, but when we got our dogs, I told my wife that $1000 was the limit on any single instance of medical care, and anything above that would result in me having the dog put to sleep. Of course I did not want dogs, so..."

haha, I took a zero off of that when we got two cats. She agreed with me.

I married the right woman

2/23/2010 3:31:04 AM

^^^^$1000 actually is not very reasonable at all. My dog was sick last March - he had horrible diarrhea that lasted almost a week and I took him to the vet. I had filthy roommates at the time and was concerned my dog had eaten something he shouldn't have.

They did the regular routine tests on him, as well as blood work and X-rays (to look for objects in his GI tract). Since he was severely dehydrated they put him on an IV and kept him at the vet for two days (one night). The bill? $800. Anyway, he recovered just fine, and while they diagnosed him with a severe stomach infection no cause was ever found.

How can you say $1000 is your limit when just a yearly physical (including vaccinations) costs $150-200?

Quote :

"Actually paying for a dog from a breeder...what the hell are you thinking?"

Gee, I dunno. MAYBE we want to know our dog's genetic history and a good idea of what we're gonna have to deal with for 10-15 years



[Edited on February 23, 2010 at 8:28 AM. Reason : zero]

2/23/2010 8:27:27 AM

$1000 is not a lifetime limit, just for a single instance of whatever is needed. Our boxer had a tumor removed recently. That was $300 or so. That doesn't mean that if he needs something that is over $700 next year that we'd put him to sleep. It just means that if his tumor had metastasized and needed thousands worth of chemo, that I'd have him put to sleep and walk away. No animal is worth that. I know a lot of people will disagree, but I'm not an "animal person"

2/23/2010 9:58:58 AM

i don't love my dog enough to spend more than $1k on her...end of story

2/23/2010 10:03:34 AM

i have to totally disagree with you because Im of the mindset that pets arent just animals, they are family, and should be treated as such (I would be the one spending thousands on a procedure). Each person feels differently though and I can understand that.

2/23/2010 10:51:04 AM

based on size and weight comparison to me and the dog I'm getting.... If I cost $50k for medical care, people should just put me to sleep.

2/23/2010 11:14:15 AM

lol, Elephants must be worth millions in healthcare then.

Real Life: X = the amount of money a person is willing to spend before the obvious option of euthanasia is chosen. X is different for different people.

Hell, I can't even have a conversation with my wife about X without her getting misty. But I can damned well tell you X < 20,000. For a dog.

For my kid, I'd sell everything I own, and steal your shit to pay for her healthcare. A dog is a dog, not a person.

2/23/2010 12:34:23 PM

Quote :

"For my kid, I'd sell everything I own, and steal your shit to pay for her healthcare. A dog is a dog, not a person."

+ infinity

2/23/2010 12:41:12 PM

^Indeed.

Which is why

Quote :

"MAYBE we want to know our dog's genetic history and a good idea of what we're gonna have to deal with for 10-15 years "

Is not really all that relevant.
You're getting a dog. Not a child.

You can have all the "good ideas" of what's in your future that you want. Ultimately, they don't mean a damn thing. If you keep a rational mindset about matters (e.g., "dog=pet, and pet=family, but pet!= human". You can love something deeply without losing your senses), then having a "good idea" about what the future holds is less important.

[Edited on February 23, 2010 at 2:12 PM. Reason : "]

2/23/2010 2:11:31 PM

Astral Engine you jackass. Get the fuck out of here with that bullshit.

Good luck with your situation Carzin.

2/23/2010 2:14:10 PM

If had to put a dog through 20K of chemo or give him the final needle I choose the final needle.

2/23/2010 2:34:44 PM

bump

9/29/2010 9:24:25 AM

gracias!

i started looking into pet insurance for my 7 yo border collie mix. she's got some hip pain, hasn't been diagnosed w/ anything yet, but i wanted to see what's available to make treatment cheaper. none of the pet insurance plans covers pre-existing conditions, which i'm pretty sure they'll categorize mia's problem as since she's been treated w/ meds for it twice now. i found a discount program called pet assure. it's $100 a year for 1 dog or horse, $150 a year for a family plan (4 pets). you get 25% off everything, no waiting period, no conditions, pre-existing stuff covered. it's not insurance.

has anybody heard of this or used it? the only catch i've found so far is that i'd have to switch vets to the one in town here that accepts it, but they are reputable, nice, and have very nice & new facilities. the only negative reviews i found were people unhappy with the vet or vet's facilities in their area.

9/29/2010 9:55:13 AM