So I've been going insane attempting to get a 50' run done over HDMI.

I've purchased an HDMI to CAT5 convertor from Intrex, didn't do a thing. ($40)
So I threw on their HDMI repeater, still didn't do a thing. ($30 + $20 power supply, I hate you Radio Shack)

Then I went to Virginia Electronic Components (VEC) and bought a 50' HDMI cable, nothing. ($50)
Added the HDMI repeater and I got a snowy signal.

I know I'm not the first in this venture, but does anybody have some local recommendations?

I'm going to VEC tomorrow to purchase their HDMI repeater (assuming it is a better quality), but would love to hear suggestions. If I can't get it to work with the repeater from VEC I'm just going to connect two 25' cables and a repeater mid-way and at the end (requiring a LOT of work in my crawl space).

3/7/2010 9:32:26 PM

Side Note: The signal is from a receiver, which is fed to by a PS3 or DirecTV HD DVR. The DirecTV seems to push a stronger signal and has less snow; the PS3 has a horrid signal, even when connected directly to the cable.

3/7/2010 9:33:51 PM

Looking at many options, including something like this:
http://www.amazon.com/Cables-Go-42223-RapidRun-Inserter/dp/B001AJP3PM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1268014368&sr=1-1

Or this:
http://www.acnt.com/_e/Hubs_Repeaters/sproduct/1012013966/Cables_To_Go_Impact_Acoustics_HDMI_Repeater.htm

3/7/2010 9:35:37 PM

There was no need to triple post here...

Check out some of the articles here:
http://www.bluejeanscable.com/articles/index.htm
They've got a lot of good, reliable information. Technically you should be able to do it with good quality cables.

3/7/2010 9:54:37 PM

I've tried with cables from Intrex and VEC, nothing, it seems the PS3 doesn't really push a strong signal. I read through the stuff on BlueJeansCable and the cables I got seem as good as theirs.

I am really trying to do this locally, since I have a deadline of Wednesday to test before the cables are pulled on Thursday.

3/7/2010 10:12:40 PM

This is probably a dumb question, but I assume you've had your PS3 hooked up with shorter cables?

And a quick google search seems to reveal some issues with the PS3 and HDMI switches, it could be related.

3/7/2010 10:22:37 PM

I recommend a superconductor.

3/7/2010 10:27:48 PM

http://www.extron.com/product/product.aspx?id=hdmi201txrx&allparts=1&s=5

Not sure of the cost (you can call them to find out...) but that's what you'd use in a "pro" setting.

Did you put the repeater at the front of your cable run or the end?

Did you use actual cat 5 cable, or like cat 6 e?

Was it a shielded cable?

Was it pre-crimped, or did you crimp it yourself?

[Edited on March 7, 2010 at 10:39 PM. Reason : ]

3/7/2010 10:36:14 PM

see if you can get a hold of user "GoFigure" . he would be our resident HDMI expert.

3/7/2010 10:46:33 PM

^^ I would have assumed an HDMI repeater should go in the middle of the run. Putting it at the beginning or end defeats the purpose. At the beginning it is still too far for the signal to go, and at the end the signal is already corrupt.

If an HDMI repeater is put in the middle, then your 50' run turns into two 25' runs, each of which should be possible without loss.

3/7/2010 11:06:52 PM

^ that presumes his setup has a stable signal at 25'

3/7/2010 11:33:31 PM

Extron shit is NOT cheap.

3/8/2010 2:18:08 AM

^^ Then get two HDMI repeaters for three 15ft runs?

[Edited on March 8, 2010 at 11:18 AM. Reason : .,.]

3/8/2010 11:17:27 AM

I bought a HDMI cable off monoprice (I think it was) and it is at least 30'... but I thought it was more like 50. It's classified as like "in wall" quality or something and is like a half inch thick. It works great but their website is down so I can't check on what it was for you

3/8/2010 11:41:26 AM

Wow, Mondays must be slow for people other than me

AngryOldMan correct, the PS3 used to be in a TV cabinet with 6' HMDI cables (6' to the receiver then an additional 6' from the receiver to the TV). Worked flawless at 1080p.

moron the repeater is designed to go close to the TV (odd I know) so it was placed at the end of the 50' cable.
The network cables I tried were unshielded CAT5e cables and precrimped, I couldn't get the system to work with any cable longer than 25', no matter where the repeater was placed.

LoneSnark I fear that might be my solution, it just requires a lot more work in the crawl space under the house.

ncsu2008 unfortunately anything less than 50' won't make the run I'm doing. The cable I've gotten from VEC is about the width of my thumb and stiff as could be.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Currently my plan of attack is to:
* Return all the purchases from Intrex (since none of them worked / were high quality)
* Purchase the repeater available from VEC
* Retry again! If it doesn't work with the one 50' cable, VEC will allow me to exchange for two 25' cables and I get to run an outlet in the crawl space.

3/8/2010 11:55:46 AM

no no no.

You always want repeaters closer to the source, not the destination. All you do otherwise are amping the complete signal loss/interference you have gotten, instead of amping the signal itself to go through the noise/loss area.

Cat 5 should work fine at 50ft. Most in-wall runs are longer than 50. Ive never heard of converting it to such but more power to you.

3/8/2010 1:12:56 PM

Master_Yoda I agree, logic dictates you'd want the "repeater" near the source, however it simply did not work when placed near the source, only when near the destination.

Went to VEC during lunch, their repeater is nothing more than a coupler, so I left that sitting on the shelf. Going to go to Intrex tonight, half tempted to go with all my components in tow and make them help me find a solution that works!

3/8/2010 2:17:43 PM

Weird, I've got a 50' run going with no issues whatsoever (Mitsubishi HC5500 projector -> Onkyo 605), with cheap cables from monoprice, no less.

[Edited on March 8, 2010 at 2:20 PM. Reason : d]

3/8/2010 2:20:10 PM

I called http://bluejeanscable.com like BIGcementpon suggested.

Seems this is a PS3 specific issue, the PS3 sends out the weakest HDMI signal possible. Basically was suggested I place a repeater every 25' minimum, in addition to some other tricks (like using the high quality cable). He said some people have reported issues going over 15' with a PS3 signal. Fun

Side note: I'm going to try PS3 -> Onyko Receiver (HDMI) -> 50' Cable -> Repeater -> Samsung LCD
To see if that helps... if not, I'm going to insert another repeater before the 50' Cable....
If that still doesn't work, I'm getting two 25' cables.

[Edited on March 8, 2010 at 3:11 PM. Reason : TV and stuff.]

3/8/2010 3:10:02 PM

My PS3's HDMI output produces inverted colors on the menu screen only ... no clue why ... I just gave up and just use Component and Optical ... I know, everyone says "ewwww", but I can't tell a difference between HDMI and Component and that's all that really matters.

That said, my Windows 7 Media PC and Apple TV are perfectly happy using the only 2 HDMI ports.

3/8/2010 4:02:45 PM

Quote :

"You always want repeaters closer to the source, not the destination. All you do otherwise are amping the complete signal loss/interference you have gotten"

You are confusing a repeater for an amplifier. HDMI should be a digital signal, which means there is no amplification taking place. Or, to the point, the output is going to be the same amplitude regardless of the amplitude of the input.

If the PS3 is simply weak and splitting the run is truly a hassle, then placing a repeater immediately after it makes sense. But it should not make sense to place a repeater right before the destination.

3/8/2010 4:17:42 PM

there is no difference in quality between hdmi and component. The difference is that HDMI can carry sound as well.

Quote :

"the repeater is designed to go close to the TV (odd I know) so it was placed at the end of the 50' cable. The network cables I tried were unshielded CAT5e cables and precrimped, I couldn't get the system to work with any cable longer than 25', no matter where the repeater was placed."

that's where the repeater needs to go. However far it will work to but not any further, place the repeater. A good repeater should get you further.

3/8/2010 4:18:48 PM

hdmi and component are substantially different. you're confusing HDMI and DVI.

3/8/2010 4:35:18 PM

Nope, not confusing anything.

HDMI and Component are significantly different in that one is digital and one is not. But that's not what I was commenting on. Image quality-wise, they can carry the same quality of image. There is slightly more potential for signal loss over analog, but it's seldom an issue.

beyond that, the difference is that HDMI can carry audio and the image over 1 connector.


Feel free to prove me wrong about the image quality issue. But I think you'll find that if we're strictly talking about image quality, you won't find anything to support that one clearly is better than the other.

[Edited on March 8, 2010 at 4:45 PM. Reason : .]

3/8/2010 4:44:22 PM

^ Not totally true. HDMI does not alter the image, as it stays digital. Meanwhile, component must go through an DAC and then an ADC to get back to usable digital. In high-end equipment this should be hard to notice, but side-by-side it should be noticeable. That said, component fades much slower over distance. Any losses for component over 50 ft should be unnoticeable. Especially compared to HDMI, which falls apart quite quickly.

[Edited on March 8, 2010 at 8:55 PM. Reason : .,.]

3/8/2010 8:53:15 PM

Most (actually none that I know of) devices won’t do 1080p out of component.

And you can sometimes visibly see a difference between the 2. It’s the same “information” in ideal circumstances, but not necessarily in a real world situation.

3/8/2010 8:58:44 PM

^^ that has nothing to do with the cables. It's the source and destination which convert the digital source to analog and back. The cables just carry the signal they're given. Don't blame the cables for a problem that has to do with the electronics.


^ now that is somewhat true on 2 notes.

Since he's using a PS3 (which hadn't quite registered when i first replied), it's true for all intensive purposes because I think it will only put out to 1080i over component. The component cables themselves can actually carry a 1080p signal. The connectors actually cause a problem. And there are component cables with different connectors that can transfer the signal. Some displays won't accept it though. And in the case of say the PS3 which won't pass on a 1080p signal over component, it's not simply that it can't but that they don't - i think due to drm stuff, i may be wrong about that though.

He's right in that in real world situations they may not appear the same. But there's no guarantee on which will be better. And at the end of the day it's not because of the cables, but because of the source and destination electronics. And adjusting the settings could possibly fix any discrepancies.


and then there's the whole issue of 1080p really not even making a difference unless you're using a certain screen size and above in consideration with how close you are to the screen. But I have no idea what size display the guy is using who was assuming it's better. so it may or may not be relevant.

[Edited on March 8, 2010 at 9:57 PM. Reason : .]

3/8/2010 9:36:49 PM

Quote :

"^^ that has nothing to do with the cables. It's the source and destination which convert the digital source to analog and back."

Which they must do because you are using component cables. Therefore, the act of using component cables makes you suffer the losses from this procedure. It was not my intention to hurt the cables feelings, but to contrast component versus HDMI, which must take into account what happens outside the cable doing the carrying.

3/8/2010 10:48:13 PM

Quote :

" for all intensive purposes"

3/8/2010 11:51:26 PM

oh shucks, all intents and purposes. you got me

3/9/2010 2:09:37 AM

I LOL'd.

I didn't specify up there, but I'm running PS3--6ft-->Onkyo605--50ft-->Mits Projector, works like a charm.

3/9/2010 9:29:01 AM

Quote :

"Most (actually none that I know of) devices won’t do 1080p out of component."

Xbox will and so will the PS3 I think (not bluray movies though). It's not the output that's the problem, it's the TV or receiver. I have my Xbox hooked up to my Samsung plasma over component (pre-hdmi xbox) and I get 1080p. Now if I try to run the component thru my Onkyo HT-RC160 I can only get 1080i.

[Edited on March 9, 2010 at 10:12 AM. Reason : ]

3/9/2010 10:11:13 AM

Put the TV on channel 3

3/9/2010 10:53:19 AM

^LOL

3/9/2010 4:21:15 PM

^^^ The Xbox will let you choose the 1080p option (and maybe the PS3), but the output is still only 1080i.

3/9/2010 10:52:03 PM

^not according to the resolution information displayed on my TV. I don't have the HD-DVD player but it has similar limitations as bluray (1080i max over component).

Again it's whether or not your TV/receiver accepts 1080p over component that is the issue (check the user manual).

Quote :

"VGA: HD DVD - 1080p resolution and all others DVD - Upscaled as high as 1080p resolution and all others Games - 720p games upscaled to 1080p, also supports native-1080p games in the future Component: HD DVD - 1080i resolution maximum, limited by AACS DVD - Upscaled to 480p maximum, limited by CSS Games - 720p games upscaled to 1080p, also supports native-1080p games in the future "

http://hd.engadget.com/2006/09/21/xbox-360-hd-dvd-playback-maximum-1080i-via-component-1080p-vga/

[Edited on March 10, 2010 at 8:44 AM. Reason : ]

3/10/2010 8:39:04 AM

Okay, well it seems more repeaters didn't fix the solution... nor did a shorter cable, a 16 ft cable from Intrex still failed.

At this point I'm going insane, because the cables say they are Category 2 (http://www.coderetard.com/2008/06/04/hdmi-ver-13-category-2-certified-cables-explained/) yet nobody knows where to get a certificate, etc.

Now, I'm sitting with a different 25ft cable from VEC and have no idea if it will work. If not, I'm going to http://bluejeanscable.com and buying the 22AWG 25ft HDMI cable that shows its certification.

If that doesn't work.... I might pull an office space on my PS3 Slim.

Once again the setup is:

PS3 Slim - 1m cable - Onyko 7.1 Receiver - 1m cable - HDMI repeater - HDMI CABLE THAT DOESN'T WORK - Samsung LCD TV

3/11/2010 10:26:42 AM

does the ps3 work when hooked directly to the tv?

3/11/2010 10:32:43 AM

Yeah, what happens when you just plug it in using a short, single HDMI cable?

3/11/2010 11:10:47 AM

After looking over the manual to my Onkyo receiver, it lists a built in hdmi repeater system. Since yours is also a newer model (I don't see it if you listed the model# but it's a 7.1) then I assume it also has that feature. I'm not sure how much good it does to throw a stand-alone repeater 1m after the receiver. That's not to say the 22AWG cable won't help make the run without there being a repeater halfway.

^,^^

Quote :

"AngryOldMan correct, the PS3 used to be in a TV cabinet with 6' HMDI cables (6' to the receiver then an additional 6' from the receiver to the TV). Worked flawless at 1080p."

[Edited on March 11, 2010 at 11:16 AM. Reason : ]

3/11/2010 11:14:00 AM

thats not ps3 to tv

3/11/2010 11:53:48 AM

Forgot he wrote that ... regardless, I am now wondering if he managed to break something or mess up the HDMI port in all the excitement of swapping cables/converters/repeaters/etc.

Just saying, better to rule out the simple options along the way.

3/11/2010 12:13:24 PM

Yeah it never hurts, due diligence and all. I just assume from his last post that he's tried every combination. Although he doesn't specifically mention removing the repeaters or the receiver out of the equation so yeah I'd definitely try (if not already):

PS3->50 ft hdmi->tv
PS3->repeater->50 ft hdmi->tv
PS3->receiver->50 ft hdmi->tv

Just to verify it isn't some weird interaction between the receiver and repeater (again I'm assuming it works straight to the tv with a short cable). I'd also probably repeat those steps using a 25 ft hdmi cable and see if it makes a difference.

Googling also reveals long hdmi cables with built in repeaters. That may prevent you from having to run an outlet in the crawlspace if it comes down to it.

http://www.supermediastore.com/product/u/apogee-hdmi50ftcl3-50-feet-hdmi-cable-v1-3-gold-plated

3/11/2010 12:36:22 PM

It might be an HDCP issue, if the repeaters aren't transmitting the HDCP data.

Do you know if the repeaters you're using are HDCP compliant?

3/11/2010 5:53:49 PM

Went and bought a Series 1 cable (22AWG) HDMI cable from BlueJeansCable and it works flawlessly over 25ft (certified for 25 ft) without a repeater.

I tried every other damn combination of cables / repeaters / equipment, I will be using this cable and just placing the equipment to the side of the fireplace.

3/18/2010 3:44:21 PM