or the healthcare bill is about to pass

3/20/2010 3:46:33 PM

It's not the end of the world, but it's going to be a big "I told you so" in five years when health care and health insurance costs are still skyrocketing. No one wants to deal with the root problems, so this legislation is just going to make things worse.

3/20/2010 3:56:24 PM

Maybe. I don't think anyone really knows whats going to happen, but everyone SAYS they do.

50 years ago there was a similar fight over Medicare, and people made a lot of the same types of arguments they are making about this bill.

No matter what happens, this bill won't be the end of the world. If it turns out to be as bad as some people think, then when there is a different majority in power, they'll repeal it and the people will love them for it.

3/20/2010 4:22:40 PM

^meanwhile canada was getting the job done. 50 years later here we are again while canada is sittin pretty.

3/20/2010 4:27:59 PM

The tea party protests of this thing have gone from thousands down to hundreds, but they still make for an interesting display:

3/20/2010 5:12:19 PM

Quote :

"^meanwhile canada was getting the job done. 50 years later here we are again while canada is sittin pretty."

i know you are a trollias, but does anyone really think the health care system in canada is and ideal we need to stive for? really?

3/20/2010 5:25:40 PM

yep. there system is so fuckin good that the keep coming... here... for healthcare. shit.

hey Kris, tell me more about how the pubs are filibustering in the House.

[Edited on March 20, 2010 at 5:55 PM. Reason : ]

3/20/2010 5:55:13 PM

^^ i watched that entire youtube, those tea-bagger folks are a joke. That whole movement is full of sensationalism and exaggeration. I guarantee none of the people interviewed will be negatively effected if the bill passes. This does not mean the bill is right, but i think many people are misguided.

3/20/2010 5:58:14 PM

^this thread was focused on just that. It's not that it's a mistake or not, let's say it is a mistake, it's not all that bad, if it doesn't work, we can fix it, I don't think giving it a chance deserves this much bitching.

3/21/2010 1:06:18 AM

Quote :

"50 years ago there was a similar fight over Medicare, and people made a lot of the same types of arguments they are making about this bill."

And Medicare has proven to be a great success, minus the whole "it's bankrupting us" thing.

3/21/2010 4:30:46 AM

^^ Because trying things that are designed to fail wastes time that could be spent doing things that will actually work. In many ways, doing the wrong thing is exactly what we have been doing all along. Ever more government spending and subsidization is what got us here, how is more of the same going to fix anything?

3/21/2010 8:20:05 AM

Quote :

"And Medicare has proven to be a great success, minus the whole "it's bankrupting us" thing."

We're not bankrupt. Medicare certainly hasn't caused the whole country to fall into chaos and socialism to completely take over.

Quote :

"Ever more government spending and subsidization is what got us here"

So it's to thank for our success?

3/21/2010 10:33:47 AM

Quote :

"We're not bankrupt. Medicare certainly hasn't caused the whole country to fall into chaos and socialism to completely take over."

So you think we're actually going to pay off our current debt (which is mostly in bonds, they will mature) through legitimate means, i.e. running a budget surplus? Is that really possible? We are bankrupt. We cannot pay back this debt without printing the money.

I didn't say anything about the country falling into "chaos and socialism" because of Medicare. One of the reasons the federal budget is so big is because of Social Security and Medicare.

Quote :

"So it's to thank for our success?"

I wouldn't call our current condition a "success."

3/21/2010 11:45:25 AM

Quote :

"So you think we're actually going to pay off our current debt"

I don't think you understand government debt. We make the money. We could pay it off right now if we wanted. Money represents trust in the stability of a government. Government debt is the use of that trust. If we were to remove all government debt we'd suffer from hyper-deflation, and our economy would shrink.

Quote :

"I wouldn't call our current condition a "success.""

Why not? The US's economic resilience was able to lead most of the rest of the world out recession.

3/21/2010 11:57:48 AM

Quote :

"I don't think you understand government debt. We make the money. We could pay it off right now if we wanted. Money represents trust in the stability of a government. Government debt is the use of that trust. If we were to remove all government debt we'd suffer from hyper-deflation, and our economy would shrink."

No shit we make the money. Money...does not represent trust in the stability of a government. Money has to have real value. If you have X number of dollars in circulation, and you "pay off the debt" by printing extra dollars (inflating), it reduces the value of the dollar, and prices go up. When you say "remove all government debt," what do you mean? You don't get hyper-deflation by duping the currency.

Quote :

"Why not? The US's economic resilience was able to lead most of the rest of the world out recession."

That's a bold claim, but I don't think you could support it.

3/21/2010 12:12:29 PM

Quote :

"Money has to have real value."

That value comes from trust of the organization that issued it. You wouldn't trade bread for paper unless you trusted that the paper could be used for other things. Your trust in the US government to remain stable is the reason you give the money that real value.

Quote :

"If you have X number of dollars in circulation, and you "pay off the debt" by printing extra dollars (inflating), it reduces the value of the dollar"

Money isn't that zero sum. The amount of money you have in circulation is not just based on how much the government prints, it's based on how many people have loans, how many people are investing, etc.

Quote :

"When you say "remove all government debt," what do you mean? You don't get hyper-deflation by duping the currency."

I was referring to if we managed to pay off all of the bonds by cashing out our reserves, cutting the budget, stopping spending, raising taxes, etc.

Quote :

"That's a bold claim, but I don't think you could support it."

Well I'd point out the demand for bonds that skyrocketed as the economy began to collapse. The US government was a huge source of stability.

3/21/2010 12:46:25 PM

ITS HERE

RUN FOR YOUR LIFE

3/21/2010 11:12:57 PM