I hate to say I told you so to all the people that were arguing with me about Lance in last year's Tour de France thread, but yeah....

http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/cycling/news/story?id=5203604

5/20/2010 10:46:04 AM

5/20/2010 10:47:25 AM

sounds like he's just blaming everyone else too so it doesn't sound like what he did was so bad...even though he doesn't have a shred of proof.

5/20/2010 11:02:50 AM

Yep, the parrallels between landis- a lying scumbag who published a book and took donations for his legal defense fund-- and canseco are pretty consistent. Alot in the media are trying to discredit him, just like they did Canseco and we all know how that turned out in the end.

5/20/2010 11:03:13 AM

guys, it's cycling. of course landis was doping, and of course armstrong was doping.

5/20/2010 11:05:39 AM

^ pretty much.

^^^ he actually has quite a bit of damning evidence. No he doesnt have emails from lance or videos of lance injecting or something, but he does reportedly have detailed logs of his nutrition/doping/travel/training and most of that could be verified to back up his story

Quote :

"Snippet of the Floyd Landis emails 2002: I was instructed on how to use Testosterone patches by Johan Bruyneel during the During the Dauphine Libere in June, after which I flew on a helicopter with Mr Armstrong from the finish, I believe Grenoble, to San Mauritz Switzerland at which point I was personally handed a box of 2.5 mg patches in front of his wife who witnessed the exchange. About a week later, Dr Ferrari performed an extraction of half a liter of blood to be transfused back into me during the Tour de France. Mr Armstrong was not witness to the extraction but he and I had lengthy discussions about it on our training rides during which time he also explained to me the evolution of EPO testing and how transfusions were now necessary due to the inconvenience of the new test. He also divulged to me at that time that in the first year that the EPO test was used he had been told by Mr Ferrari, who had access to the new test, that he should not use EPO anymore but he did not believe Mr Farrari and contin ued to use it. He later, while winning the Tour de Swiss, the month before the Tour de France, tested positive for EPO at which point he and Mr Bruyneel flew to the UCI headquarters and made a financial agreement with Mr. Vrubrugen to keep the positive test hidden. 2003: After a broken hip in the winter, I flew to Gerona Spain where this time two units (half a liter each) were extracted three weeks apart. This took place in the apartment in which Mr. Armstrong lived and in which I was asked to stay and check the blood temperature every day. It was kept in a small refrigerator in the closet allong with the blood of Mr Armstrong and George Hincapie and since Mr. Armstrong was planning on being gone for a few weeks to train he asked me to stay in his place and make sure the electricity didn't turn off or something go wrong with the referigerator. Then during the Tour de France the entire team, on two different occasions went to the room that we were told and the doctor met us there to do the transfusions. During that Tour de France I personally witnessed George Hincapie, Lance Armstrong, Chechu Rubiera, and myself receiving blood transfusions. Also during that Tour de France the team doctor would give my room mate, George Hincapie an d I a small syringe of olive oil in which was disolved andriol, a form of ingestible testosterone on two out of three nights throughout the duration. I was asked to ride the Vuelta a Espana that year in support of Roberto Heras and in August, between the Tour and the Vuelta, was told to take EPO to raise my hematocrit back up so more blood transfusions could be performed. I was instructed to go to Lances place by Johan Bruyneel and get some EPO from him. The first EPO I ever used was then handed to me in the entry way to his building in full view of his then wife. It was Eprex by brand and it came in six pre measured syringes. I used it intravenously for several weeks before the next blood draw and had no problems with the tests during the Vuelta. Also during this time it was explained to me how to use Human Growth Hormone by Johan Bruyneel and I bought what I needed from Pepe the team "trainer" who lived in Valencia along with the team doctor at that time. While training for that Vuelta I spent a good deal of time training with Matthew White and Michael Barry and shared the testosterone and EPO that we had and discu ssed the use thereof while training. Again, during the Vuelta we were given Andriol and blood transfusions by the team doctor and had no problems with any testing. 2004: Again the team performed two seperate blood transfusions on me, but this time Bruyneel had become more paranoid and we did the draws by flying to Belgium and meeting at an unknown persons appartment and the blood was brought by "Duffy" who was at that time Johans assistant of sorts. The second of which was performed on the team bus on the ride from the finish of a stage to the hotel during which the driver pretended to have engine trouble and stopped on a remote mountain road for an hour or so so the entire team could have half a liter of blood added. This was the only time that I ever saw the entire team being transfused in plain view of all the other riders and bus driver. That team included Lance Armstrong, George Hincapie and I as the only Americans. 2005: I had learned at this point how to do most of the transfusion technicals and other things on my own so I hired Allen Lim as my assistant to help with details and logistics. He helped Levi Leipheimer and I prepare the transfusions for Levi and I and made sure they were kept at the proper temperature. We both did two seperate transfusions that Tour however my hematocrit was too low at the start so I did my first one a few days before the start so as to not start with a deficit. 2006: Well you get the idea....... One thing of great signigicance is that I sat down with Andy Riis and explained to him what was done in the past and what was the risk I would be taking and ask for his permission which he granted in the form of funds to complete the operation described. John Lelangue was also informed by me and Andy Riis consulted with Jim Ochowitz before agreeing. There are many many more details that I have in diaries and am in the process of writing into an intelligible story but since the position of USA Cycling is that there have not been enough details shared to justify calling USADA, I am writing as many as I can reasonably put into an email and share with you so as to ascertain what is the process which USA Cycling uses to proceed with such allegations. Look forward to much more detail as soon as you can demonstrate that you can be trusted to do the right thing."

5/20/2010 11:08:44 AM

Of course they all cheated. But Floyd is a little bitch.

5/20/2010 11:10:30 AM

Quote :

""I want to clear my conscience," Landis said. "I don't want to be part of the problem any more."

What a bunch of BS. I read that article earlier this morning (can't find it now) where he said the reason it was coming out now was because after 8 years they can't investigate. So after this year they couldn't bring up the 2002 season.

Actaully here it is;

Quote :

"According to Landis, his first use of performance-enhancing drugs was in June 2002, when he was a member of the U.S. Postal Service team. The World Anti-Doping Agency's statute of limitations for doping offenses is eight years, and Landis said that, too, is part of his motivation for divulging his inflammatory information. "Now we've come to the point where the statute of limitations on the things I know is going to run out or start to run out next month," Landis said. "If I don't say something now, then it's pointless to ever say it." "

[Edited on May 20, 2010 at 11:15 AM. Reason : Found it]

5/20/2010 11:12:34 AM

So, if they're all doping, how do they pass all the tests? Wasn't Lance rigorously tested? How do they get by it?

5/20/2010 11:14:42 AM

I always knew it was a possibility, but now Im

5/20/2010 11:15:39 AM

I still don't care...at this point if you are doing something to enhance your career or ability your just stupid. Although doing it with little research and disregard for ones body is pretty stupid too. If Lance did it, then good for him. Does not make the sport any easier.


III

5/20/2010 11:18:22 AM

Quote :

"So, if they're all doping, how do they pass all the tests? Wasn't Lance rigorously tested? How do they get by it?"

Landis supposedly provided details in the emails about how they got by the testing, which will probably come out at some point

A rider for BMC got busted for doping a few weeks ago and he admitted to it and says the only reason he didnt get caught was because he forgot to drink a bottle of water before the testing.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/frei-confesses-to-epo-usage-and-is-released-by-bmc

Incidentally, Frei rode for Astana which is the team Bruyneel managed (now manager of Radioshack) and Armstrong rode for last year.

5/20/2010 11:32:08 AM

cyclists are just a bunch of thugs

5/20/2010 11:35:47 AM

so everyone that bough a livestrong had the wool pulled over their eyes. thats ALOT of people

5/20/2010 11:39:52 AM

for years i've been really taken aback by the amount of people who want to believe in lance armstrong b/c an american w/ cancer is such a great story, even though he's been an uncanny winner in perhaps the most dope-infused sport there is.

so i love this.

5/20/2010 12:04:54 PM

no, the reason we believe it is because he is the single most tested athlete in the history of testing and he has never popped positive once.

also if you believe landis you have to believe the testing agency out to crush lance would actually take a cash payment to keep silent...and that just makes you even more naive than those you accuse

5/20/2010 12:28:56 PM

I like WRAL's title better,

Quote :

"Report: Landis admits doping and fingers Armstrong"

5/20/2010 12:29:08 PM

5/20/2010 12:29:38 PM

Um.. who cares? It is cycling.

Everyone in the sport cheats, so even playing field at that point. I know that doesn't make it right but that is the reality to be competitive in the sport.

What people do to their bodies and if their livers fall out of their bodies in 20 years that is their own fault.

Nobody in our country actually cares about this sport except for the fact that it sticks it to the French when we win and it stirs up a bit of national pride. Lance was a great story which helped to gain some interest but once he was gone the amount people cared dropped with it once again.

At the end of the day Lance helped raise a ton of money for a great cause, and was inspirational to a lot of people. For a minor sport in the US to have that type of impact at the end of the day makes me care even less about the cheating, the net result was good for a lot of people.

Just sick of HGH/steroids especially in sports that nobody cares about unless it is a steroid issue.

5/20/2010 12:48:54 PM

Ya know, if I find some truth to doping in disc golf, can i make espn headlines? Might be the best thing ever for the sport!

5/20/2010 1:02:13 PM

I hate tattletells and snitches...


III

5/20/2010 1:04:35 PM

Quote :

"no, the reason we believe it is because he is the single most tested athlete in the history of testing and he has never popped positive once."

As explained before, it's relatively simple to get around the testing if you are careful. Even before this Landis thing, it was pretty clear that Lance was guilty. A good portion of his teammates have tested positive and virtually every major contender during the years that Lance was winning has been popped. Usually their explanation ended up being that they were careless or some variation of that.

Basically, the only thing Lance won at was being more diligent and careful at not getting caught. I guess there is some skill involved in that.

5/20/2010 1:47:04 PM

so whats the short answer of how blood doping works, is it basically

athletes train in high altitudes, get blood work done there, save blood, later get blood transfusions at regular altitudes which increases oxygen?

5/20/2010 1:56:16 PM

maybe doping is the cure to cancer???

5/20/2010 2:54:08 PM

short story is more RBC's in your blood means more oxygen which means muscle don't get tired as easily. can achieve that by injecting packed RBC's or EPO which stimulates production of RBC's.

it's clearly cheating but to my medical knowledge, not sure what danger it poses

5/20/2010 3:10:52 PM

^^ i've read that doctors suspect that magic johnson's HIV has been so tame at least partially due to his steroid use as a professional athlete.

5/20/2010 3:20:21 PM

(damn simonn, beat me to it)

I thought is was lots of Nestle Crunch

5/20/2010 3:25:07 PM

Quote :

"A good portion of his teammates have tested positive and virtually every major contender during the years that Lance was winning has been popped."

So even if Lance was doping, he still beat everyone on a level playing field. Doesn't diminish his accomplishment to me at all.

5/20/2010 11:16:47 PM

So because a few others cheated its ok for Lance?

You probably think Barry Bonds is an ok guy too right?

5/21/2010 2:18:40 AM

^ i actually almost agree w/ this. especially for baseball.

cycling is a little different though, i think due to the degree that they're doping.

5/21/2010 6:59:58 AM

It's not a level playing field at all, even if theoretically everyone was doping. Every body reacts differently to the drugs and there is no way to tell who is using what, at what levels and when.

Also, Lance wrecked his bike yesterday and pulled out of the Tour of California. I guess he is having a bad week.

5/21/2010 8:38:25 AM

everyone reacts differently to lifting weights, but that's perfectly legal.

5/21/2010 8:51:05 AM

Quote :

"no, the reason we believe it is because he is the single most tested athlete in the history of testing and he has never popped positive once."

he's actually tested positive twice.
the first time he got around it with a backdated medical usage excuse
second time, they lost the backup sample so couldn't confirm

5/21/2010 8:58:14 AM

^^and if lifting weights was against the rules, testable (semi) and illegal in most places, then it would be bullshit for athletes to do it.

5/21/2010 9:06:47 AM

Quote :

"At the end of the day Lance helped raise a ton of money for a great cause, and was inspirational to a lot of people. For a minor sport in the US to have that type of impact at the end of the day makes me care even less about the cheating, the net result was good for a lot of people."

pretty much how i feel, if he did in fact dope

5/21/2010 11:55:36 AM

Quote :

"ENDS JUSTIFY MEANS"

5/21/2010 12:22:07 PM

the other cyclist probably don't feel the same way. especially the clean ones.

5/21/2010 12:39:47 PM

the other cyclist probably don't doesn't feel the same way. especially the clean ones.

Fixed?

5/21/2010 12:51:32 PM

why the fuck does anyone care what this no talent whining pussy says about other cyclists?

5/21/2010 3:46:42 PM

interesting

http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/cycling/news/story?id=5208471

Quote :

"The RadioShack team posted a statement on its website Friday and attached a lengthy series of e-mails from Landis and his personal physician Dr. Brent Kay, who is also the primary sponsor of Landis' team, to various cycling officials and sponsors. According to the statement, those e-mails show that Landis' allegations were "a troubling, angry and misplaced effort at retribution for his perceived slights,'' including the fact that his OUCH-Bahati Foundation team was not invited to the Tour of California. "Having been refused, Landis later communicated directly with Armstrong and threatened to 'say directly that I'm going to accuse you and our former teammates of using blood doping and performance-enhancing drugs to help you win the three Tours de France in which we raced together,' the statement reads. "Armstrong's response to Landis was identical to the responses to the same type of threatening text messages received from Landis two years ago -- that there would be no consideration, money, team positions or anything else given in exchange for not airing false accusations," the team says on it website. "Getting no satisfaction and not receiving a position on the RadioShack team, Landis then carried through with his threat and provided the press with his false accusations.''"

5/21/2010 4:29:14 PM

Their statement about the emails, and what the emails actually say differ pretty significantly. If you read the emails (even the ones Team Radioshack themselves posted), they don't make Landis look crazy, vengeful or mentally unstable at all. Apparently the Lance spin machine is in full motion.

Even so, it appears that most of the major players in cycling are content to stick their head in the sand once again ala Bud Selig. And Floyd Landis, being a confessed liar and a general piece of shit, will damage the credibility of his claims enough to make all this turn out to be nothing.

IMO, there was plenty of circumstantial evidence to know Lance and co. were doping before these accusations and this just piled on.

[Edited on May 21, 2010 at 4:42 PM. Reason : d]

5/21/2010 4:38:06 PM

hahhaah well there you go

what a douchebag

5/21/2010 4:38:40 PM

Landis is a douchebag. A lying, spiteful, blackmailing douchebag. So this changes nothing.

And jochristian you're a douchebag for starting this thread.

and yes, its pretty clear Armstrong is a dopefiend. but starting an "i told you so" thread based on Landis's transparent smear campaign is pretty goddamn douchey.

5/21/2010 7:08:08 PM

do people in america actually "follow" cycling? the only other reason I can think people care about this type of stuff is because it's clearly only shit white people would care about

5/22/2010 9:28:46 PM

Nah being white has little to nothing to do with caring. We (meaning America, I never did) cared because we beat the French at their own invitational. Now that we don't anymore (I guess?) we no longer care.

5/23/2010 1:54:55 AM

For anyone who cares...

President of the UCI admits to getting six figure donation from Armstrong along the same timeline that Landis suggested a bribe was made to cover up a positive test. (LOL at "forgetting" to deposit it for 3 years)
http://tinyurl.com/36ngqo6

Quote :

""In 2002 just after the inauguration of the world cycling centre [located in Aigle, Switzerland] Lance Armstrong and Johan Bruyneel visited the facilities," he said. "Armstrong was very impressed and offered a $100,000 dollar donation to help in the development of cycling." The UCI president then said the money Armstrong donated was used to buy a machine used to analyse blood samples. The Irishman also detailed the circumstances surrounding the collection of the donation. Lance Armstrong"The UCI decided to use this money to buy a machine [for blood sample analysis]. Three years later we realised that the money still hadn't been deposited," McQuaid explained."

Interview with Landis.. He sounds suprisingly not insane and bitter as the Lance camp would have him come across:
http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/cycling/columns/story?columnist=ford_bonnie_d&id=5215959

5/25/2010 1:10:57 PM

Floyd you fucking cheater.

5/26/2010 1:37:18 PM

Bump

6/2/2011 1:52:52 PM

Did anyone watch that 60 minutes episode where Tyler Hamilton says he doped with Armstrong?

Video - http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7366946n
Print - http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/05/20/60minutes/main20064858.shtml?tag=currentVideoInfo;segmentTitle

Also this SI reporting is pretty interesting (not sure if that's the whole article or not though...I remember it being longer)

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/more/01/18/lance.armstrong/index.html

6/2/2011 2:20:26 PM

wonder if Lance used roids and thats how he got testicular cancer in the first place

6/2/2011 2:56:03 PM