Okay, so it's a somewhat obvious headline. But NOW there's polling data to confirm it:

Quote :

"Sixty-two percent of tea party supporters surveyed over three separate Gallup polls say they are a “conservative Republican.” Another 17 percent say they are “moderate/liberal Republican.” All told, 79 percent of tea party supporters say they are Republicans. Only 6 percent of the tea party supporters surveyed identify as a “pure independent” while 15 percent said they would likely identify as a “liberal,” “moderate” or “conservative” Democrat. Asked which party they would likely vote for if the election were held today, 80 percent of tea party supporters said the GOP compared to 15 percent who would favor a Democrat."

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0710/39320.html


So much for the myth that they're a bunch of people looking to "take their country back" from incumbent politicians. They're just looking to take it back from Democrats. I believe this may be the worst case of collective sour grapes ever witnessed.

7/2/2010 6:54:47 PM

/thread

7/2/2010 6:58:35 PM

news at 11

7/2/2010 8:57:33 PM

1) a non-partisan "tea party" is formed -- fairly evenly split amongst the left, the right, and independents.
2) the left is more scared by this than the right, because the left doesn't even pretend to want smaller government.
3) leftists begins both grassroots & mainstream liberal media efforts to push the idea that "the tea party is republican!"
4) #3 is repeated as often as possible, including posts by snarky jerks on message boards and liberal chain emails
5) the rest of the left and left-leaning independents, believing the lies and slander, disassociate with the tea party.
6) Gallup Polls confirm it.
7) liberals pat themselves on the back for once again destroying the American way.

7/3/2010 2:17:32 AM

I don't recall a time when the Tea Party movement wasn't primarily Republican

and IMO the issue is less with smaller government and more with the racism and nativism visible not far under the surface, especially the nativism

7/3/2010 2:28:20 AM

^
Do you understand why racists would want small government?
Do you also understand that many non-racists want small government?
Are you also aware that any effort by non-racists to push for small government will also be backed by racists?
Do you realize that the non-racists can't do anything about this?...that they'd prefer to not have support from racists?
And lastly,
Do you see how racists supporting a position makes it easy for liberals to assume that position is inherently racist?

7/3/2010 2:49:08 AM

I'd think racists would want big government, just one that's officially racist like the good bad old days

and what I'm getting at is that at its core the Tea Party movement is a racist, nativist, fundamentalist movement that opposes freedom and equality under the law, despite its shouts of "freedom" (possibly the word most mis-used by the Right)

7/3/2010 3:00:13 AM

^
Well, gosh. That's just wrong. I can't really respond to that....

[Edited on July 3, 2010 at 3:10 AM. Reason : you don't seem to be able to separate the right from the Religious Right™]

7/3/2010 3:02:16 AM

I just happen to think that conservatism is essentially religious in nature, hell-bent on transforming this nation into a militant theocracy; basically as long as whatever faction the fundies flock to is kept out of power for as long as possible we should be fine.

7/3/2010 3:14:12 AM

^
Not to be insulting, but that's childish -- Your idea is very naive and superficial. I thought that way when I was 13.

Your views on conservatism are way off base.
For instance, I and dozens of my libertarian friends are all conservatives....
...But we're also anti-military atheists that eat organic tofu and respect animal rights.
Indeed, the only thing we're militant about is recycling.

And we're conservatives. (politically and financially, at least.)

[Edited on July 3, 2010 at 3:20 AM. Reason : ]

7/3/2010 3:19:42 AM

I'd probably use a different term, like "libertarian" (which has itself gotten a bad name in recent years from rank-and-file conservatives using it)

on a similar note I also don't believe that the desire for a nanny state is a defining characteristic of liberalism

and btw I used to be a conservative (like a religious fundamentalist without the belief in God) when I was that age, although I wasn't yet aware that that was the right term for it
and a while later I came to believe that Communism was a good idea in theory
and then when I took more stock in freedom and less in wishing upon others the strictures in my own life I became what I would later know as a liberal
and then when I learned shortly before college why Communism was a bad idea, even in theory, I overreacted and became a libertarian, lured by its high degree of self-consistency
and finally about a year after college when I had found too many things that actually do work better as public goods and became more tempered in reality and the existing initial conditions of society than in a self-serving conception of human nature and a utopian vision of initial conditions I considered myself a liberal again, but of a different type, more libertarian-leaning than in high school
-my little story

[Edited on July 3, 2010 at 3:45 AM. Reason : I overreact now to the thought of any group including the religious right ever regaining power

7/3/2010 3:43:49 AM

^
fair enough....

I suppose I overreact now to the thought of any group including the nanny statists continuing to gain power.
I view that threat as more likely to happen than any coming from the religious right -- I mean, come on -- there's no real threat of going back to the 1950's racist, sexist, homophobic bible-thumping shit....
...but there seems to be no stopping the march towards a nanny state -- in my opinion, that's the real danger.

7/3/2010 3:58:55 AM

Quote :

"I mean, come on -- there's no real threat of going back to the 1950's racist, sexist, homophobic bible-thumping shit."

to be fair that was more about the culture at the time than the government; that was a time when "conservative" meant "kook" and even Eisenhower distanced himself from the label

What I fear is a future government trying to turn back the cultural clock like Andrew Johnson (then again he was heavily thwarted by the Radical Republicans); I honestly believed that Bush would try to strong-arm a theocracy through, given his public invocation of God in his decisions, his Attorney General's desire to turn government workers into spies, and the ease with which his administration got the powers under the USA PATRIOT Act, the authorization to invade Iraq, and a free pass on torture, extraordinary rendition, secret prisons, and warrantless wiretapping. As far as I saw by 2006 it wasn't beyond him to make those two words added to the Pledge in 1954 and those four words added to our money in 1956 have the force of law...so I wondered why he had been spending so much of his "political capital" on an initiative that was both reasonable and ultimately unsuccessful: Allowing people born after 1950 to invest up to 10% of their Social Security taxes going forward in one of a few relatively safe stock-market funds (even after the crash of 2008 that would have left us out at most 4% of our future benefits, and that's only we young'uns).

I guess what I'm trying to say is that only a sort of aversion therapy would assuage my fear of Republican power, like if somehow Teabagger-backed politicians held the levers of power and at the end of the day the USA were still a decent place to live in (even for people who are not white and Christian and straight); I know my opinion of Bush improved a bit once he left office without having done the many awful things it seemed like he'd do.

Also I'll admit it's tough to kill a government program once created, but we're able to hold back the people's desire for more government services (with or without the taxes to pay for them) better than Europe, which now resorts to austerity measures when faced with the unsustainability of its welfare state; on the other hand the European nations are better IIRC about actually taking austerity measures, while I doubt Congress would be willing to raise taxes (including on families making less than $250K/year) or reform the big spending areas (Social Security, Medicare, and defense) even if we still have Democrats running the show by the time the recovery is undeniably strong and the stimulative measures need to be stopped.

I feel like this right now: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYa0jpGFUeY

7/3/2010 4:42:56 AM

I guess this, too, is bad, right?

Poll Finds Tea Party Backers Wealthier and More Educated
April 14, 2010

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/15/us/politics/15poll.html

FTR, I'm not a Republican and I'm not in the TEA Party. I do think that both groups raise important sociopolitical issues that should be considered.

7/3/2010 5:59:11 AM

look indy, we were all college sophomores too at one point

7/3/2010 10:24:18 AM

Quote :

"I guess this, too, is bad, right?"

it has been known for a while that the educational level most likely to vote Republican is "bachelor's degree but no graduate education"

when I learned that back in 2004 it reminded me of a saying by the eminent Gene Ray

7/3/2010 12:56:21 PM

^Gene Ray the Timecube guy?

7/3/2010 1:14:58 PM

yes...

Quote :

"You've been educated stupid"

7/3/2010 1:19:17 PM

Quote :

"I just happen to think that conservatism is essentially religious in nature, hell-bent on transforming this nation into a militant theocracy; basically as long as whatever faction the fundies flock to is kept out of power for as long as possible we should be fine."

There aren't enough facepalms in the world for this gem.

7/3/2010 1:44:43 PM

And yet it is so true. To hear a conservative tell it, Jesus would have voted for McCain in 2008.

7/3/2010 1:51:24 PM

Before you continue embarrassing yourself, go ahead and define conservatism.

7/3/2010 2:01:05 PM

deference to the hegemon

7/3/2010 2:28:35 PM

^^ Tea partiers. QED

7/3/2010 2:42:23 PM

Tea partiers: What liberals blame for their troubles, since they can't blame their President or their Congress

7/3/2010 4:52:55 PM

^ I'm gay, so I can blame them for plenty of my problems.

7/3/2010 5:12:56 PM

what does being gay have to do with anything

7/3/2010 5:18:11 PM

I'm a librull.

7/3/2010 5:19:01 PM

What is Optimum talking about?

7/3/2010 5:24:46 PM

^^^guess which party thwarts the progress of gay rights at every turn

although I'll admit the other one isn't always on their side either

7/3/2010 5:26:20 PM

The DNC is trying to say they're pro-gay. They just put out this list:

Quote :

"Accomplishments by the Administration and Congress on LGBT Equality No one should rest until we have full LGBT equality. But after eight years of Republican disrespect, progress is being made. In its first 17 months, the Obama Administration has... 1. Reversed an inexcusable US position by signing the UN Declaration on Sexual Orientation and Gender Identity 2. Extended benefits to same-sex partners of federal employees in 2009 and, further, in 2010 3. Endorsed the Baldwin-Lieberman bill, The Domestic Partnership Benefits and Obligations Act of 2009, to provide FULL partnership benefits to federal employees 4. Signed the Ryan White HIV/AIDS Treatment Extension Act 5. Lifted the HIV Entry Ban effective January 2010 6. Released the first Presidential PRIDE proclamations since 2000 7. Hosted the first LGBT Pride Month Celebration in White House history 8. Awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom to Harvey Milk and Billie Jean King 9. Appointed the first ever transgender DNC member 10. Issued diplomatic passports, and provided other benefits, to the partners of same-sex foreign service employees 11. Committed to ensuring that HUD's core housing programs are open to all, regardless of sexual orientation or gender identity 12. Conceived a National Resource Center for Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender Elders -- the nation's first ever -- funded by a three-year HHS grant to SAGE 13. Testified in favor of ENDA, the first time any official of any administration has testified in the Senate on ENDA 14. Signed the Matthew Shepard and James Byrd, Jr. Hate Crimes Prevention Act, which expanded existing United States federal hate crime law to include crimes motivated by a victim's actual or perceived gender, sexual orientation, gender identity, or disability -- the first positive federal LGBT legislation in the nation's history 15. Hired and appointed a record number of qualified LGBT Americans (like these), including more than 15 Senate-confirmed appointments 16. Sworn in Ambassador David Huebner 17. Changed the culture of government everywhere from - among others - HUD and HHS to the Export-Import Bank, the State Department, and the Department of Education 18. Appointed Sonia Sotomayor and nominated Elena Kagan, instead of conservatives who would have tilted the Court even further to the right and virtually doomed our rights for a generation. To wit (quoting McCain): "I've said a thousand times on this campaign trail, I've said as often as I can, that I want to find clones of Alito and Roberts. I worked as hard as anybody to get them confirmed. I look you in the eye and tell you I've said a thousand times that I wanted Alito and Roberts. I have told anybody who will listen. I flat-out tell you I will have people as close to Roberts and Alito [as possible]." 19. Named open transgender appointees (the first President ever to do so) 20. Banned job discrimination based on gender identity throughout the Federal government (the nation's largest employer) 21. Emphasized LGBT inclusion in everything from the President's historic NAACP address ("The pain of discrimination is still felt in America. By African American women paid less for doing the same work as colleagues of a different color and a different gender. By Latinos made to feel unwelcome in their own country. By Muslim Americans viewed with suspicion simply because they kneel down to pray to their God. By our gay brothers and sisters, still taunted, still attacked, still denied their rights.") . . . to the first paragraph of his Family Day proclamation ("Whether children are raised by two parents, a single parent, grandparents, a same-sex couple, or a guardian, families encourage us to do our best and enable us to accomplish great things") and his Mothers Day proclamation ("Nurturing families come in many forms, and children may be raised by two parents, a single mother, two mothers, a step-mom, a grandmother, or a guardian. Mother's Day gives us an opportunity to celebrate these extraordinary caretakers") . . . to creating the chance for an adorable 10-year-old at the White House Easter Egg roll to tell ABC World News how cool it is to have two mommies . . . to including the chair of the National Gay and Lesbian Chamber of Commerce along with the Secretary of the Treasury and the President of Goldman Sachs in the small audience for the President's economic address at the New York Stock Exchange . . . to welcoming four gay couples to its first State Dinner 22. Recommitted, in a televised address, to passing ENDA . . . repealing Don't Ask/Don't Tell . . . repealing the so-called Defense of Marriage Act 23. Spoken out against discrimination at the National Prayer Breakfast ("We may disagree about gay marriage, but surely we can agree that it is unconscionable to target gays and lesbians for who they are -- whether it's here in the United States or, as Hillary mentioned, more extremely in odious laws that are being proposed most recently in Uganda.") 24. Dispatched the Secretary of Defense and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff to call on the Senate to repeal Don't Ask / Don't Tell, in the meantime dialing back on discharges 25. Launched a website to gather public comment on first-ever federal LGBT housing discrimination study 26. Appointed long-time equality champion Chai Feldblum one of the four Commissioners of the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission 27. Eliminated the discriminatory Census Bureau policy that kept our relationships from being counted, encouraging couples who consider themselves married to file that way, even if their state of residence does not yet permit legal marriage 28. Produced U.S. Census Bureau PSAs featuring gay, lesbian, and transgender spokespersons. 29. Instructed HHS to require any hospital receiving Medicare or Medicaid funds (virtually all hospitals) to allow LGBT visitation rights. 30. Appointed Retired Colonel Margarethe Cammermeyer, an early public champion of open service in the military, to the Defense Advisory Committee on Women in the Services 31. Required all grant applicants seeking HUD funding to comply with state and local anti-discrimination laws that protect LGBT individuals. 32. Adopted transgender recommendations on the issuance of gender-appropriate passports that will ease barriers to safe travel and that will provide government-issued ID that avoids involuntary "outing" in situations requiring ID, like hiring, where a gender-appropriate driver's license or birth certificate is not available 33. Extended domestic violence protections to LGBT victims 34. Publicly invited shunned Mississippi high school prom student to the White House 35. Extended the Family and Medical Leave Act to cover employees taking unpaid leave to care for the children of same-sex partners"

7/3/2010 6:21:16 PM

I find it humorous that everyone wants to put themselves into a box (myself included). and then after we put someone in a box we get bored and then put them into another box!

7/3/2010 7:51:35 PM

For those liberals here who are tossing around the typical stereotypes, I know that you think the Democrats are the only party pitching a "big tent" (pun intended--LOL!), but they're not.

Log Cabin Republicans

http://online.logcabin.org/

National Black Republican Association

http://www.nbra.info/

Libertarian Republican

http://www.libertarianrepublican.net/

Republicans for Choice

http://www.republicansforchoice.com/

Republicans for Environmental Protection

http://www.repamerica.org/

Republicans for Obama

http://www.republicansforobama.org/

Aaand so on.



Yeah!

[Edited on July 4, 2010 at 4:48 AM. Reason : The old stereotypes just don't work anymore.]

7/4/2010 4:39:36 AM

^ yeah, that's nice, but all those Republican splinter groups you named not only are not any part of the GOP leadership, they're not even part of the debate.

if there's one thing that can be said for Republicans, they know how to keep their party on the straight-and-narrow path. there is no dissension from the party line.

conversely, the Democrats will let any batshit agenda take off on a tangent in the name of tolerance. hence they can't keep the party focused, and people get disgusted and wander off.

and tea partiers are not some spontaneous grassroots movement. perhaps the idea was at the very conception, but ever since it hit the ground, it's been pure astroturf. Tea Party events have been organized and funded by two major GOP policy groups: "Americans For Prosperity" (Ralph Reed / Tim Phillips) and "Freedom Works" (Dick Armey). Not to mention a metric shitton of free, glowing publicity from Fox News and every blowhard right-wing talkshow host.

it's no wonder 80% of Tea Partiers are self-identified Republicans.

7/4/2010 6:15:38 AM

^

Quote :

"yeah, that's nice, but all those Republican splinter groups you named not only are not any part of the GOP leadership, they're not even part of the debate."

This statement is incorrect. You should check the membership of those organizations more closely.

Quote :

"it's no wonder 80% of Tea Partiers are self-identified Republicans."

Actually, it's probably somewhat less than that:

Survey: Four in 10 Tea Party members are Democrats or independents
April 4, 2010

Quote :

"Four in 10 Tea Party members are either Democrats or Independents, according to a new national survey. The findings provide one of the most detailed portraits to date of the grassroots movement that started last year."

And the number of disgruntled Democrats with Obama buyer's remorse continues to grow:

Disgruntled Democrats join the Tea Party
April 2, 2010

Quote :

"Grand Junction, Colorado (CNN) -- They are not typical Tea Party activists: A woman who voted for President Obama and believes he's a 'phenomenal speaker.' Another who said she was a 'knee-jerk, bleeding heart liberal.' These two women are not alone. Some Americans who say they have been sympathetic to Democratic causes in the past -- some even voted for Democratic candidates -- are angry with President Obama and his party. They say they are now supporting the Tea Party -- a movement that champions less government, lower taxes and the defeat of Democrats even though it's not formally aligned with the Republican Party."

http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/04/02/democrats.tea.party/index.html

FYI.

7/4/2010 6:56:39 AM

LOL

Republicans haven’t been doing anything to invite more people to their tent, and the numbers bare this out.

I don’t know why you think bombing this thread with links somehow shows otherwise. I would have thought you learned something during your hiatus, but clearly you have not.

7/4/2010 10:12:40 AM

no see gays are secretly republican, aren't they into all that S&M stuff

7/4/2010 10:49:40 AM

Quote :

"Log Cabin Republicans http://online.logcabin.org/"

Yesterday's news. The latest attempt to get gays voting republican is:

GOProud

http://www.goproud.org/

They paid to be a cosponsor at CPAC and then were denied the option to speak.

Quote :

"In his e-mail response, Keene admitted GOProud "has signed on as a CPAC co-sponsor, but will have no speakers and we told them that, in fact, since opposition to gay marriage, etc are consensus positions (if not unanimous) among conservatives, these topics are not open to debate.""

David Keene being an event organizer of CPAC.

Liberty U threatened to withdraw from CPAC, and the Family Research Council has issued many attack press releases against GOProud.

And then there is the last would-be president from the Republican Party. McCain opposes the repeal of DADT (Don't Ask Don't Tell) and DOMA (Defense of Marriage Act which keeps even the states that do have marriage equality from having it recognized by the federal gov). In fact I believe McCain is one of those who helped originally put that feds trump states rights rule in place. He also did ads for state constitutional amendments banning gay marriage in his home state, and endorsed the prop 8 efforts breaking with what he originally told the Log Cabin Republican's that he'd stay neutral on that one that was outside of his state.

And even being that anti-gay, he isn't conservative enough, and is fighting a tea party challenge in his primary.

7/4/2010 12:35:12 PM

^^^ It's called providing supporting evidence. If I hadn't done it, you'd attack that.

^ Social conservatives =/= All conservatives

7/4/2010 4:14:36 PM

^ There's no reason to believe that social conservatives are a minority in the Republican party. In fact, social conservatives are the very reason why the party has become so right-wing lately.

7/4/2010 4:24:28 PM

^ Most =/= All

Thanks. QED.

And this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factions_in_the_Republican_Party_(United_States)

[Edited on July 4, 2010 at 4:29 PM. Reason : Linky.]

7/4/2010 4:28:38 PM

It doesn't matter. Optimum already knows what all Republicans, conservatives, and libertarians believe. Don't muddy the waters with these alleged "facts."

7/4/2010 5:14:10 PM

^ Uh uh, sir. Take that personal shit out of my thread.

7/4/2010 8:11:27 PM

the point is that the kind of conservatism that is evil, the kind all intelligent and good-natured citizens should cringe at, is social conservatism

7/5/2010 2:44:50 AM

^ So, American Christian conservatives--and let's be honest, that's who you're referring to--never did anything good for this country, for the world? The laughable part of this position (other than it being flat-out wrong) is that you and some others here would be the first to swoop into a thread even mildly disparaging of Muslims and howl, NOT ALL MUSLIMS ARE BAD!!!1

[Edited on July 5, 2010 at 7:32 AM. Reason : Right?]

7/5/2010 7:19:37 AM

Quote :

"the point is that the kind of conservatism that is evil, the kind all intelligent and good-natured citizens should cringe at, is social conservatism"

I love it when people who make fun of the right use terms like evil. You are an atheist i presume? If so define evil for me as an absolute truth and then you can use it. Until then, please only refer to things ending with "in my opinion" because in reality thats all that it would be.

7/5/2010 7:58:42 AM

Quote :

"New data out of Gallup suggests that premise isn't right as nearly seven in ten tea party supporters describe themselves as "conservative Republicans". All told, nearly 80 percent of tea party supporters describe themselves as Republicans while 15 percent say they are Democrats and just six percent are, in their own minds, "pure independents"."

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/thefix/republican-party/tea-party-as-the-republican-pa.html

7/6/2010 3:28:38 PM

Quote :

"I love it when people who make fun of the right use terms like evil. You are an atheist i presume? If so define evil for me as an absolute truth and then you can use it. Until then, please only refer to things ending with "in my opinion" because in reality thats all that it would be."

As an atheist, I'll answer this. There are no absolute truths. And you don't have to define something as an absolute truth to use the word. "In my opinion" is implied in every single thing that you ever utter.

Each person defines evil and a societies as a whole define evil. What I consider evil may not be exactly what you consider evil (see the abortion thread) and what both of us consider evil is VERY different than what humanity considered evil 500 years ago.

Your non-sequitur about his use of the word "evil" was quite evil.

7/6/2010 3:32:56 PM

Quote :

"you and some others here would be the first to swoop into a thread even mildly disparaging of Muslims and howl, NOT ALL MUSLIMS ARE BAD!!!1"

not all conservative Christians are bad either, just the ones that would seek to impose their will on us; if a faction of radical Muslims had a decent shot at imposing Sharia upon America that would be evil too

it's the ideology that is evil, not necessarily the adherents or sympathizers; I mean they can conceivably be dissuaded and shown the light of rational liberal thought

7/6/2010 3:56:09 PM

Quote :

"the point is that the kind of conservatism that is evil, the kind all intelligent and good-natured citizens should cringe at, is social conservatism"

Quote :

"So, American Christian conservatives--and let's be honest, that's who you're referring to--never did anything good for this country, for the world? The laughable part of this position ..."

No, there's no straw-man there.

^
I don't know about "the light of rational liberal thought" but yes, social conservatives != Christians.

[Edited on July 6, 2010 at 4:36 PM. Reason : ]

7/6/2010 4:12:50 PM

There was no distinction made among social conservatives in the following quotation:

Quote :

"the point is that the kind of conservatism that is evil, the kind all intelligent and good-natured citizens should cringe at, is social conservatism"

lewisje

Again, you were referring to American Christian conservatives, right?

7/6/2010 6:40:37 PM