Wild thread, guys. Keep the good times rollin'.

7/20/2010 2:14:34 AM

Quote :

"there will always be multiple people with equal qualifications applying for a job."

Totally not true.

There are always more than enough people who apply who are qualified on paper. And there is often more than one who would be an acceptable fit.

But every single time I've been through a hiring process, all the decision-makers were unanimous about who was the best. And that's what is relevant. Yes, 2-5 applicants may all be good enough, but who wants to hire the 'good enough' to the exclusion of the best, by introducing irrelevant criteria into the mix?

7/20/2010 4:59:51 AM

^^ Yep. And the leftists here and elsewhere will become more and more vicious as their relevance continues to diminish.

In 2010, Conservatives Still Outnumber Moderates, Liberals
Last year's increase in conservatism among independents is holding
June 25, 2010

Quote :

"PRINCETON, NJ -- Conservatives have maintained their leading position among U.S. ideological groups in the first half of 2010. Gallup finds 42% of Americans describing themselves as either very conservative or conservative. This is up slightly from the 40% seen for all of 2009 and contrasts with the 20% calling themselves liberal or very liberal."

http://www.gallup.com/poll/141032/2010-conservatives-outnumber-moderates-liberals.aspx

7/20/2010 6:58:48 AM

Quote :

"its bad business not to hire the most qualified people you can find to work for you."

racists will put themselves out of business.

7/20/2010 9:25:59 AM

^ really?

Just like racism stopped those 2 tea party leaders from rising to the top?

Racism might put someone out of business in some parts of the country, but in other parts of the country, it might help someone stay in business.

7/20/2010 9:39:20 AM

so be it. you can never legislate someone's feelings and thoughts. no matter how many laws you have on the books, until the government forces hiring, there will always be prejudice. prejudice towards school, race, gender, height, weight, looks, etc...

as a business man, i hope my competitors bypass top talent for petty reasons. i will scoop that talent and dominate. everybody wins.

7/20/2010 10:08:55 AM

NAACP STATEMENT ON THE RESIGNATION OF SHIRLEY SHERROD
NAACP - 2hrs 28mins ago

Quote :

"[Sherrod's] actions were shameful. While she went on to explain in the story that she ultimately realized her mistake, as well as the common predicament of working people of all races, she gave no indication she had attempted to right the wrong she had done to this man. The reaction from many in the audience is disturbing. We will be looking into the behavior of NAACP representatives at this [event]."

http://tinyurl.com/34qlyut

7/20/2010 10:15:15 AM

Quote :

"as a business man, i hope my competitors bypass top talent for petty reasons. i will scoop that talent and dominate. everybody wins."

Remind me how people who are passed up their entire lives develop talents

7/20/2010 10:16:49 AM

Quote :

"Remind me how people who are passed up their entire lives develop talents"

McDanger - King of the Overstatement

lets get off the victim tip here. i am not offering perspective on how to fix people's entire lives. i am saying that if my competitor hires lesser talented people for the same positions i am looking to fill, solely because of race or gender, i am going to dominate him and so will the market over the long run. talent always trumps. this applies to all levels on the career ladder. it is not static to one particular step.

now, if you want to discuss early childhood, schooling and feelings, that is probably for another thread and not applicable to this particular discussion. nobody is denying that racists exist. i am simply saying they will lose over time.

7/20/2010 10:24:33 AM

You're assuming racists harm themselves by being racists. While this is true in a long-term sense due to the fact that they're artificially (and arbitrarily) narrowing their sample size, these sorts of negative outcomes don't exert any pressure on the actions/behaviors. It's not like racists suddenly would say "Oh it looks like we're really harming ourselves by not encouraging and educating black children, we'd better grant them the power to compete and produce so that we'll all benefit"

7/20/2010 10:29:17 AM

You'd have a point, if not for the fact that people of all skin tones have succeeded (and will continue to succeed) in this country. The problem is not racial discrimination, it's the cycle of poverty that exists among the lower class. Stop focusing on skin color.

7/20/2010 11:14:32 AM

Just let me know when you've had enough...

White job applicants with criminal records have a better chance of being called back for an interview than black applicants without one, even when all the qualifications are the same.

http://www.princeton.edu/~pager/race_at_work.pdf

Black males with college degrees are almost twice as likely as their white male counterparts to be out of work.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/01/us/01race.html?_r=3

E-mail inquiries about rental property submitted by people with white sounding names were 60 percent more likely than those with black sounding names to get a positive response from a landlord (meaning an indication that a unit was available for rent), even when the housing had been previously advertised as available.

http://www.dailyestimate.com/article.asp?id=3708

But I guess it's we who should stop focusing on skin color....... right?

[Edited on July 20, 2010 at 11:19 AM. Reason : ]

7/20/2010 11:19:25 AM

No wait, let me keep going because you're a dumb ignorant fuck...

Blacks are far more likely than whites to have their cars and persons searched after a traffic stop, even though whites, when searched, are more than four times as likely to have drugs or other illegal contraband.

http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/cpp02.pdf

Police in New York City are blatantly profiling blacks and Latinos, stopping and frisking them in massive numbers, even though in 90 percent of all cases, the people they stop are released without any charge because they are found to have done nothing illegal.

http://www.racismreview.com/blog/2010/05/24/stop-frisk-collect-data/

A majority of persons admitted to prison for drug offenses are black, even though there are about six times more white users nationwide.

http://www.hrw.org/en/reports/2008/05/04/targeting-blacks

But I guess we should stop focusing on skin color.....

7/20/2010 11:22:13 AM

White conservatives have a much higher chance of being called racists by unethical left-wing journalists:

Quote :

"Pick one of Obama's conservative critics, [Spencer] Ackerman [of the Washington Independent] wrote, 'Fred Barnes, Karl Rove, who cares — and call them racists.'"

http://tinyurl.com/39pgueh

7/20/2010 11:29:20 AM

Quote :

"White conservatives have a much higher chance of being racists than left-wing journalists."

If you espouse a racist philosophy, don't be surprised when someone calls a spade a spade.

[Edited on July 20, 2010 at 11:32 AM. Reason : ]

7/20/2010 11:31:35 AM

^ Source: The left-wing media and some guy on the Internet.

7/20/2010 11:32:28 AM

Quote :

"don't be surprised when someone calls a spade a spade."

racist

7/20/2010 11:41:36 AM

So much correlation. So little causation

7/20/2010 12:00:14 PM

That's a shitload of correlation you're brushing off, there.

7/20/2010 12:03:10 PM

that's a shitload of non-relevant observation you're brushing off there

7/20/2010 12:21:40 PM

I had high hopes for a party that promoted real fiscal conservatism and transparent government, but that will never happen.

7/20/2010 12:41:04 PM

Upstanding, educated black citizens should not be mad at employers, police, and others who don't give them calls back, or who search their cars.

They should be mad at the disproportionately large (now that's an understatement) number of blacks who commit crimes, and aren't worth employing or renting to.

If black society weren't so internally fucked up, this stuff would go way down.

My former roommate (black) got randomly stopped and searched in a nice Cary neighborhood at 11 p.m., because he is black and was driving a stereotypically ghetto car.

"I ain't mad at the cop. I'm mad at all the assholes who look like me that make me look suspicious."

This does not excuse the cops or employers. But the blame cannot be put entirely on them.

7/20/2010 12:59:54 PM

Quote :

"If black society weren't so internally fucked up, this stuff would go way down."

Did you miss this bit I just posted:

Quote :

"Blacks are far more likely than whites to have their cars and persons searched after a traffic stop, even though whites, when searched, are more than four times as likely to have drugs or other illegal contraband. http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/cpp02.pdf"

They aren't the problem. You are the problem.

[Edited on July 20, 2010 at 1:05 PM. Reason : ]

7/20/2010 1:02:39 PM

^That does NOT say that whites are more likely to have contraband in their cars than blacks.

It says that whites who are searched are more likely to have contraband in their cars than blacks who are searched.

If, as we both agree, the shadiness-bar is higher for white people to be searched, then that is exactly what we would expect.

If black folks are searched for any ol' reason, and whites are only searched with very strong probable cause, then this result is expected.

It does not mean that white folks carry drugs more often than black folks.

7/20/2010 1:16:29 PM

Yet, you're alleging the opposite solely due to an anecdote from your token friend.

7/20/2010 1:18:47 PM

No, I'm alleging the opposite based on well-known fact. Black people commit more crime per capita, by a wide margin, than any other race. All I'm saying is that if that were not the case, these racially-biased searches would mostly go away.

I'm not the problem, because I'm not excusing what these cops and employers do. I'm saying the problem goes two ways, instead of just one.

In the 20's to 40's, blacks had a higher marriage rate, a lower divorce rate, a lower out-of-wedlock birth rate, and a lower actual crime rate than whites or any other race. Cultural shifts and everything from the war on drugs to welfare has helped change that. There is no inherent problem with black people. But there are fundamental problems with black society today that encourage this kind of issue to continue to exist.

[Edited on July 20, 2010 at 1:25 PM. Reason : a]

7/20/2010 1:25:20 PM

Quote :

"Black people commit more crime per capita, by a wide margin, than any other race."

[citation needed] for this stereotyping prejudicial bullshit.

What you're doing is circular logic. Police believe that Black people commit more crime, and therefore they pull over Black people or patrol Black neighborhoods more than White neighborhoods. And you know what? When you look for crime in areas largely populated by one race and ignore areas populated by another race, you're going to produce statistics that give the false impression that race commits more crime.

If I pull over only luxury sports cars for speeding, I'm probably going to only end up giving tickets to old rich White people.

Does this mean that rich White people largely make up speeders? Hell no it doesn't.


And let's not forget mitigating factors (I've already posted evidence of) such as:

-Police pull over Blacks more than Whites
-Police arrest Blacks more than Whites
-Blacks receive harsher sentences for the same crimes

Even if you had a shred of evidence to back up that statement,
-Blacks live in poorer areas
-Blacks receive worse education
-Blacks have harder times finding jobs

[Edited on July 20, 2010 at 1:31 PM. Reason : ]

7/20/2010 1:28:01 PM

Wait, I think I've discovered a pattern here:

Bush low point: 'Being called a racist'

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0109/17438.html

Did Cheney Just "Come Out" as a Racist?

http://levellers.wordpress.com/2009/05/11/did-cheney-just-come-out-as-a-racist/

Chris Matthews to Kathleen Parker: Is Sarah Palin the poster girl for racism?

http://hotair.com/archives/2009/08/06/chris-matthews-to-kathleen-parker-is-sarah-palin-the-poster-girl-for-racism/

Racist comments by Gingrich

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/4/1/1020/23879/62/318277

Rush Limbaugh Is a Racist

http://rushisaracist.com/

Note to DU: Sean Hannity is a Racist.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5102085

Glenn Beck Worst Racist in the World

http://crooksandliars.com/karoli/glenn-beck-worst-racist-world

Fox News' Racism

http://www.racismreview.com/blog/2009/07/09/fox-news-racism/

Krugman: Republicans Are Racists--It's that Simple

http://themoderatevoice.com/14738/krugman-republicans-are-racists-its-that-simple/

Quote :

"Pick one of Obama's conservative critics, [Spencer] Ackerman wrote, 'Fred Barnes, Karl Rove, who cares — and call them racists.'"

http://tinyurl.com/39pgueh

The pattern is one of rubbish--not racism.

7/20/2010 1:43:36 PM

When a political party campaigns on making middle-class White people afraid of the Mexican, Black, or Muslim boogeyman, they're racists.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Io9KMSSEZ0Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhhyckC9W5c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBK7bWh1m04

[Edited on July 20, 2010 at 1:51 PM. Reason : ]

7/20/2010 1:49:44 PM

Personal accountability, how does it work?

7/20/2010 2:16:50 PM

Quote :

"There is no inherent problem with black people. But there are fundamental problems with black society today that encourage this kind of issue to continue to exist."

right fucking on.

Quote :

"[citation needed] for this stereotyping prejudicial bullshit."

Quote :

"The following facts are derived from data found in the FBI Uniform Crime Reports (online link) for the years 1995 through 2000. (Once again it is worth stressing that the FBI figures do not break down separate statistics for Central American immigrants, Mexicans, Arabs, or anybody else: if the FBI had included a separate category for these racial groups, the disparity between Black and White would be even larger.) - The average Black commits murder about 7.1 times more often than the average "White" (where "White" includes Hispanics etc.) - The average Black commits interracial murder about 13.8 times more often than the average "White" (where "White: includes Hispanics etc.) - The average Black kills a "White" 15.9 times more often than the reverse. - Weapons violations are committed by Blacks at nearly 5 times the rate for Whites; - Blacks are caught receiving or buying stolen property at nearly 5 times the rate for Whites; - Blacks are involved in prostitution at almost 4 times the rate for Whites; - Blacks are arrested for drug crimes at over 4 times the rate for Whites; - Blacks are more than three times as likely as Whites to be caught at forgery, counterfeiting, and fraud, and almost three times as likely to be caught at embezzlement; - Blacks are more than 3 times as likely to be thieves as Whites; - Blacks are more than 4 times as likely to commit assault as Whites; - Blacks are almost 4.5 times as likely to steal a motor vehicle; - Blacks are more than 5 times as likely to commit forcible rape as Whites; - Blacks are over 8 times as likely to commit murder as Whites; - Blacks are more than 10 times as likely to commit robbery as Whites; - Nearly 25% of all Black males between the ages of 20 and 29 are in jail or on probation - this does not include those wanted or awaiting trial; - For all violent crimes considered together, Blacks are almost 5.5 times more likely to commit violent criminal acts than Whites; all this according to the FBI Uniform Crime Report. "

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/ucr.htm

7/20/2010 2:32:15 PM

Replace "commits" with "is arrested for."

None of those statistics prove that Black people actually murder more people than Whites. All they show is that more Black people are arrested and found guilty for such crimes. This ignores racial profiling, increased police presence in low income and minority areas, the increased likelihood of a White person "getting off with a warning" for petty crimes, the inability for minorities to afford proper defense at trial, and the overwhelming fact that Black people serve harsher sentences for the same crimes than White people.

Like I said earlier, if I pulled over only luxury sports cars for moving violations, statistics would show that only rich people commit them.

I could then use this circular logic to back my behavior, stating that "Well, statistics show rich people commit more moving violations, so it's no wonder I'm pulling over luxury sports cars all the time!"

7/20/2010 2:41:08 PM

^ wow, just wow.

7/20/2010 3:05:30 PM

On the one hand, you have a culture of gang violence that is evident in urban black communities.

On the other hand, you have a vast conspiracy of cops, lawyers, judges, and jurors wrongly convicting blacks of crimes they didn't commit. Or they're committing the crimes solely out of necessity due to an even more vast conspiracy including the entire judicial system, all private and public business owners, and the U.S. Government.

Also, the American racist machine must fucking love Asians. They are vastly under-represented in violent crime statistics. Why is our judicial system so racist against white people compared to Asians?

7/20/2010 3:06:12 PM

^^^ dude, were not talking about traffic tickets here.

If blacks are 8 times more likely to commit murder than whites, there aint a whole lot the arresting officer has to do with it....

Blaming the entire issue with black crime to poor data is naive. I agree that the numbers could be skewed in some cases by marginal amounts, but there are obviously issues with parts of the black community.

[Edited on July 20, 2010 at 3:13 PM. Reason : .]

7/20/2010 3:12:52 PM

Quote :

"Replace "commits" with "is arrested for." None of those statistics prove that Black people actually murder more people than Whites. All they show is that more Black people are arrested and found guilty for such crimes. This ignores racial profiling, increased police presence in low income and minority areas, the increased likelihood of a White person "getting off with a warning" for petty crimes, the inability for minorities to afford proper defense at trial, and the overwhelming fact that Black people serve harsher sentences for the same crimes than White people. Like I said earlier, if I pulled over only luxury sports cars for moving violations, statistics would show that only rich people commit them. I could then use this circular logic to back my behavior, stating that "Well, statistics show rich people commit more moving violations, so it's no wonder I'm pulling over luxury sports cars all the time!""

ok, dude.



[Edited on July 20, 2010 at 3:15 PM. Reason : .]

7/20/2010 3:14:11 PM

^^

Yes, a community that we literally enslaved for 400 years, and then systematically subjugated through racially biased law for the next one hundred, and still manage to step on every chance we get through institutionalized racism.

A community that we shoveled off into projects and ghettos, tossed them malt liquor, drugs, and guns, and let them destroy themselves.

A community that we couldn't give a shit if they learn to read or have a good education.

A community where we hire thugs to "police" them, thugs who routinely hassle, arrest, or outright murder members of that community, who send them to life sentences in prison at a rate alarmingly higher than any other racial group in the country.

A community that we say they are to blame for their problems. And if only they'd learn to work hard like us they could stop being caught up in a vicious cycle of drugs, violence, and prison.

7/20/2010 3:22:11 PM

Quote :

"It's funny how it always turns out to be the Jews' fault for antisemitism"

-Solinari

7/20/2010 3:32:03 PM

Quote :

"Yes, a community that we literally enslaved for 400 years, and then systematically subjugated through racially biased law for the next one hundred, and still manage to step on every chance we get through institutionalized racism. A community that we shoveled off into projects and ghettos, tossed them malt liquor, drugs, and guns, and let them destroy themselves. A community that we couldn't give a shit if they learn to read or have a good education. A community where we hire thugs to "police" them, thugs who routinely hassle, arrest, or outright murder members of that community, who send them to life sentences in prison at a rate alarmingly higher than any other racial group in the country. A community that we say they are to blame for their problems. And if only they'd learn to work hard like us they could stop being caught up in a vicious cycle of drugs, violence, and prison."

there arent enough rolly-eyes in the world.

no matter what garbage and generalizations you spout, you can never deny that people DO make it out of whatever poverty cycles they are entrapped in when they apply themselves. are there a lot of people in this country that have a more difficult time than others? absolutely. that fact does not excuse an entire culture of fatherless children and violence. there are plenty of white kids who grow up poor and succeed/fail as well. there are plenty of kids from wealthy families that are afforded every silver spoon who fail. it comes down to the individual. some of us have an easier starting point than others but that is simply a harsh reality of life.

you lose. good day sir.

7/20/2010 3:34:36 PM

^^^Yup, fuck personal responsibility.

Unless you're given every opportunity that any other person has ever been given in every situation, your criminal actions are not your fault.

Also, I find your suggestion that black people are incapable of resisting malt liquor and drugs as incredibly racist.

[Edited on July 20, 2010 at 3:46 PM. Reason : racism.]

7/20/2010 3:38:47 PM

Ahh, libertarians....

7/20/2010 3:57:33 PM

in which of those pictures is 25% of the black guy in jail before age 29?

7/20/2010 4:01:05 PM

I'm not sure what you're getting at. Could you try again?

7/20/2010 4:01:49 PM

"I'm not racist, I just believe that Blacks statistically commit more crime than Whites and that if they only pulled themselves up by their boostraps like me (who never benefitied from institutionalized racism in my life and earned every nickel to my name!) they could be successful! Sure, the odds may be against them, they may live in poverty stricken shitholes with police just looking for them to slip up so they can be locked away for life, but I feel like if they only tried hard enough! gosh darn it, they could achieve a middle class life like me!"

7/20/2010 4:04:13 PM

Quote :

"wow, just wow."

Yeah, I thought the same. Wasnt there an article lately that stated facts dont matter to people who have already made up their mind? Seems like a pretty good example right here. "my mind is made up, dont confuse me with facts." haha

7/20/2010 4:07:12 PM

^Yes it basically sounds like everyone's response to the 8 or so articles I posted showing that institutionalized racism against Blacks still exists in this country.

7/20/2010 4:14:51 PM

I wasn't reacting to the data. I was reacting to your logic.

7/20/2010 4:21:01 PM

My logic is sound, and it's backed up by evidence.

I also find it disgusting that I'm literally the only one coming in here saying that the status quo is not currently okay.

7/20/2010 4:23:50 PM

I find it disgusting that you're cool with a person committing a violent crime on another person solely based on the merit of the offender's skin color.

7/20/2010 4:27:57 PM

well, I find it disgusting that you didn't support Israel's legal interdiction of the terrorist group Hamas' "aid" flotilla, but I don't constantly cry about it.

Oh wait, yes I do. Carry on.

7/20/2010 4:28:02 PM