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 Message Boards » » When the government owns GM... Page [1]  
LoneSnark
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… the other auto-makers are not going to be treated very fairly.

Quote :
" Senior officials at the U.S. Department of Transportation have at least temporarily blocked the release of findings by auto-safety regulators that could favor Toyota Motor Corp. in some crashes related to unintended acceleration, according to a recently retired agency official.George Person, who retired July 3 after 27 years at the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, said in an interview that the decision to not go public with the data for now was made over the objections of some officials at NHTSA.

“The information was compiled. The report was finished and submitted,” Mr. Person said. “When I asked why it hadn’t been published, I was told that the secretary’s office didn’t want to release it,” he added, referring to Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood.

Since March, the agency has examined 40 Toyota vehicles where unintended acceleration was cited as the cause of an accident, Mr. Person said. NHTSA determined 23 of the vehicles had accelerated suddenly, Mr. Person said.

In all 23, he added, the vehicles’ electronic data recorders or black boxes showed the car’s throttle was wide open and the brake was not depressed at the moment of impact, suggesting the drivers mistakenly stepped on the gas pedal instead of the brake, Mr. Person said.

“The agency has for too long ignored what I believe is the root cause of these unintended acceleration cases,” he said. “It’s driver error. It’s pedal misapplication and that’s what this data shows.”

Mr. Person said he believes Transportation Department officials are “sitting on” this data because it could revive criticism that NHTSA is too close to the auto maker and has not looked hard enough for electrical flaws in Toyota vehicles.

“It has become very political. There is a lot of anger towards Toyota,” Mr. Person said. Transportation officials “are hoping against hope that they find something that points back to a flaw in Toyota vehicles.”"

7/31/2010 9:26:20 PM

smc
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There is a 35% tariff on Chinese tires. This directly influences how much you pay for tires by the same amount, since Cheng Shins and such were the cheapest tires by far.

7/31/2010 10:27:01 PM

GrumpyGOP
yovo yovo bonsoir
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I'm not a huge fan of the government owning GM, but that isn't necessarily why they're pussyfooting around about the Toyota matter. These so-called "sudden acceleration incidents" (SAI's), which are in reality pretty much always driver error, are reported constantly. Every now and then one particular make or model is arbitrarily publicized, leading to a huge increase in reports regarding that make, giving the impression that they are unsafe.

Pretty much the exact same thing happened in the mid-1980s. If I may quote from one of my preferred authors, P.J. O'Rourke, in a twenty year old book called "Parliament of Whores":

Quote :
" For a long time complaints to NHTSA about sudden-acceleration incidents had nothing in common as to type of automobile...But in 1986 they became associated in the public mind almost exclusively with the Audi 5000 sedan. No one is sure exactly why. The Audi 5000 was introduced in 1978 and, aside from styling, remained unchanged thereafter. In the first four years that the 5000 was sold in the United States, only thirteen Audi SAI's were reported. Then, in February 1986, an article on sudden acceleration appeared in the New York Times. The article focused on SAI accusations against GM, American Motors, Ford, Nissan and Toyota. Audi was mentioned only in passing. But a certain Mrs. X of Long Island read the article. Mrs. X had had two accidents in her Audi 5000, both, she claimed, results of SAI's. Mrs. X contacted the Center for Automotive Safety, a group founded by Ralph Nader, which called the New York Public Interest Research group...[which] put the arm on New York State attorney general Robert Abrams, who held a press conference and denounced the Audi 5000 as an unsafe car."


...and as a result, the Audi got focused press coverage, leading to a huge uptick in the number of people whose Audis tried to put themselves into orbit. I've little doubt that some similar effect is at work here. The NHTSA and a veritable alphabet soup of other DOT agencies did research and found out that the "paddle shoed, dink wit perpetrators of sudden acceleration" caused the problem. Obviously, those are O'Rourke's words, not the government's. However, in the late 1980's the government absolved the drivers of driver error, which "may imply carelessness or willfulness in failing to operate a car properly. Pedal misapplication is more descriptive of what occurs. It could happen to even the most attentive driver"

Why would they do this? The government didn't own any auto companies at the time. I suspect LoneSnark already has the answer...

Quote :
"NHTSA would say they were caused by human error. And nobody believed NHTSA.

The public would say, "Who, me? Make a mistake? Me, the voter?""


Bureaucrats can't call us stupid, because bureaucrats are hired by elected officials. Elected officials are hired by us, and we don't like being called stupid.

Given how similar the outcomes are, I'm not sure it's fair to leap to the conclusion that this Toyota clusterfuck is necessarily caused by the government's involvement in GM.

[Edited on August 1, 2010 at 1:25 AM. Reason : ]

8/1/2010 1:18:51 AM

smc
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Grandpa warned me about these damned foreign cars.

8/1/2010 1:29:37 AM

LoneSnark
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^^ I agree, it is too early to call malfeasance. However, I have heard no evidence that the NHTSA back in the 1980s produced a report absolving Audi and then had their political masters sit on it, which is what the SoT is accused of doing in this article. What you point to is the softening from "driver error" to "pedal misapplication", which is the exact same thing the current report calls it. Yes, the government refused to call voters stupid, but it did absolve Audi, as pedal misapplication is not the fault of the car, it just opted not to crucify the idiot drivers. Well, today the SoT is refusing to even call it pedal misapplication, opting instead to sell more GM cars.

8/1/2010 2:49:00 AM

Potty Mouth
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Are you blind? It's right there in your quote from a guy formerly inside NHTSA

Quote :
"Mr. Person said he believes Transportation Department officials are “sitting on” this data because it could revive criticism that NHTSA is too close to the auto maker and has not looked hard enough for electrical flaws in Toyota vehicles."



Furthermore, we simply don't have enough information about the accidents to make a judgement. If you're in a line of traffic, pulling away form a light and your car suddenly takes off, you might not have enough time to actually put your foot on the brake before hitting the guy behind you.

I find it hilarious people on the one hand will scold the government for being to inept to do really anything but they are suddenly somehow clever enough to start using their power to become shrewd business owners. Toyotas sales were up big despite all the negative press. Any announcement now out of the NHTSA amounts to pissing in the ocean.

8/1/2010 8:33:21 AM

LoneSnark
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He also said he doesn't know why they are siting on it, all he knows for sure is that they are. Everything else is speculation.

And the NHTSA believed they knew enough to produce a report and seek to publish it. Who are you to second guess their engineers?

The government's various agencies product millions of pages of documents every year, this one I am actually curious about reading, and you think this one is the only one not worth publishing? I don't care whether Toyota needs it or not, if it is the truth then it needs to come out.

8/1/2010 10:27:34 AM

Potty Mouth
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You strike me as being a person who lives in fear.
Quote :
"and you think this one is the only one not worth publishing?"

Did you confuse me with someone in your head? I never even insinuated as much. I'm all for the release of any and all information related to our nation. I just don't think there is some sort of hidden agenda by NHTSA officials regarding GM sales. At most, they are worried about their jobs or whatever political connection they have related to their position.

8/1/2010 10:32:31 AM

1337 b4k4
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Where's wikileaks when you need them?

8/1/2010 11:03:58 AM

Lumex
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My first car was an Audi 5000; now I own a Toyota w/ broken floor-mats that have to be pulled from behind the pedals after every 10 minute drive.

8/1/2010 11:08:01 AM

merbig
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^ Why not just remove the floor mats?

8/1/2010 11:49:27 AM

smc
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Quote :
"Where's wikileaks when you need them?"


Very true. By taking on the giant, they've lost the manpower and server capacity to publish smaller leaks like this, which used to be their bread and butter.

8/1/2010 12:35:50 PM

Lumex
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^^Yea I did eventually.

8/2/2010 12:35:09 AM

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