http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/aug/20/bonnie-clyde-fugitives-captured-arizona

Quote :

"McCluskey was among three prisoners who escaped on 30 July from a privately operated state prison in Kingman, allegedly with the help of Welch, McCluskey's cousin and fiancée."

Quote :

"The prison has a badly defective alarm system, a perimeter post was unstaffed, an outside dormitory door had been propped open with a rock and the alarms went off so often that prison personnel often just ignored them, the report said. Also, operational practices often led to a gap of 15 minutes or longer during shift changes along the perimeter fence. Prison staff told a review team that the dormitory door was left open because it was in frequent use. The open door allowed the three inmates to reach a 10-foot chain-linked fence that hadn't been topped with razor wire. They scaled that fence and hid out for a time behind a building in an area that wasn't visible to staff from the yard."

Quote :

"The prison has a badly defective alarm system, a perimeter post was unstaffed, an outside dormitory door had been propped open with a rock and the alarms went off so often that prison personnel often just ignored them, the report said. Also, operational practices often led to a gap of 15 minutes or longer during shift changes along the perimeter fence. Prison staff told a review team that the dormitory door was left open because it was in frequent use. The open door allowed the three inmates to reach a 10-foot chain-linked fence that hadn't been topped with razor wire. They scaled that fence and hid out for a time behind a building in an area that wasn't visible to staff from the yard."

Hey, who cares if people died right? If this prison gets shut down, the free fucking market will have acted properly, right? I mean, who cares if the execs running this place enriched themselves over the years while standards were lax, it isn't like we can put the prison in jail for its crimes.

8/20/2010 7:13:39 AM

Agreed, private prisons are a shitty idea. The judicial system is one of the legitimate uses of government.

If it turns out that people actually have been killed by these escaped convicts then absolutely prison officials should be held legally responsible for negligence and ineptitude. Only thing is, this kind of stuff happens because governments allow it to happen. If you choose to locate a private prison in your town (and there are good reasons to do so, job creation, increased tax revenue, etc.) it's a choice that your government has made, and contracting shit out to the lowest bidder is not always a good plan.

[Edited on August 20, 2010 at 8:48 AM. Reason : asdfasdf]

8/20/2010 8:46:31 AM

Prisoners escape from government prisons and jails, too, you know. And prisons are part of the executive branch, not the judicial.

8/20/2010 8:53:42 AM

Yes, they do escape from government run facilities, but nevertheless, the judicial system (by that, I don't mean just state courts, but the entire legal system from cops to the penal system, I didn't intend to confuse) is a legitimate government function and not one that should be delegated out to private companies. The thing is, even if the private prison was as negligent as it seems to have been this ultimately falls back on the state government for pawning this responsibility onto a private contractor.

I'm all for privatizing much of what the government does, but some stuff like the military, law enforcement, and courts should very much remain in the hands of the people and not private companies.

8/20/2010 9:14:51 AM

Quote :

"a legitimate government function and not one that should be delegated out to private companies."

I agree. It's the congress's responsibility to manage the money system...and they have delegated it to a private firm...the Federal Reserve. And look how that's been working out.

8/20/2010 10:04:20 AM

I have this exact conversation with my dad about once every two months.

Do you really think the government would have done a better job than the Fed?

8/20/2010 10:22:32 AM

on a side note, this dude and his cousin/fiance sound like grade a shitheads

8/20/2010 10:25:26 AM

Quote :

"Prisoners escape from government prisons and jails, too, you know"

Color me surprised that such a bright intellectual as yourself would point out the obvious. Have yourself a cookie.

Apparently, a 1998 libertarian Reason Public Policy study "found that government-run prisons have fewer escapes, less substance abuse and greater recreational and rehabilitation measures in place"

8/20/2010 10:36:17 AM

^^ I'll take you at your word that's what you meant. But inmates go through the government-controlled court system before they are incarcerated. And would you do away with all private police, too? The cost to taxpayers would necessarily increase, right?
^ And? Also, please provide a link. I know more about corrections than anyone here, I can assure you. BTW, do you think you know me?

8/20/2010 12:01:48 PM

If true, then you can see a self selection process taking place. If we assume that governments dislike contracting out services, a safe bet given what I've seen during the latest recession, then private prisons are usually only used when the government in question is broke and therefore both contracting to the lowest bidder and unwilling to pay for luxuries such as escape-proof, preventing the drug trade, or providing recreational and rehabilitation services.

If the government had wanted those things, it would have put them in the contract, and paid for it.

8/20/2010 12:03:09 PM

i abhor the notion of privately run prisons

8/20/2010 12:28:23 PM

Quote :

"unwilling to pay for luxuries such as escape-proof [prisons]"

Apparently if you contract out prison services you have to indicate that you don't want people to escape from them

Quote :

"I know more about corrections than anyone here, I can assure you. "

You always say you know more than everyone about everything yet post nothing but stupid MSM articles.

8/20/2010 1:24:46 PM

^ That's because I usually do. But if anyone else here has been certified in multiple states as a correctional officer, I'll stand down.

And I'll thank you to stop riding my nuts.

8/20/2010 1:59:02 PM

Stand down on what?

The only "point" you've made is that prisoners manage to escape from government-run prisons as well. Nobody said otherwise.

End of your contribution to the thread.

8/20/2010 2:56:51 PM

Stand down from his assertion that he knows more about corrections than anyone else which was challenged by Kris.

[Edited on August 20, 2010 at 3:38 PM. Reason : which, for clarity]

8/20/2010 3:37:52 PM

I said he talked a lot of shit and post nothing to back it up

he responded by talking a lot of shit and posting nothing to back it up.

8/20/2010 3:49:31 PM

Quote :

"Also, please provide a link."

It was from a 1998 study referenced in a couple different places on the interwebs but I couldn't find the study.

Quote :

"BTW, do you think you know me?"

That's ridiculous, why would I know you?

8/20/2010 5:50:18 PM

^

Quote :

"Color me surprised that such a bright intellectual as yourself would point out the obvious. "

And LOL @ Kris. When I post links you complain, when I don't you complain. I think I see a pattern here. . . .

8/20/2010 5:56:49 PM

I think 75 days is plenty of time for me to form an opinion, especially when it begins to merge with the apparent opinion of others, eg

Quote :

"You always say you know more than everyone about everything yet post nothing but stupid MSM articles."

8/20/2010 6:02:19 PM

^ Yeah, ignore reality--the only person here who actually knows anything about prisons and the way they operate. And way to go on the groupthink.

8/20/2010 6:05:31 PM

Good point. It wasn't until I saw some other people who I don't know post about the suckage of another guy that I don't know did I form an opinion.

I'm not quite sure what you think you accomplished by reiterating your knowledge of the prison system? So far, you seem to think you can just claim you're an authority but not actually respond to any point in any sort of a factual way. Again, cookie for you!

8/20/2010 6:13:32 PM

Quote :

"And LOL @ Kris. When I post links you complain, when I don't you complain. I think I see a pattern here. . . ."

If you know so much, POST SOMETHING INTERESTING. Give us some insight from your profession experience, give a professional opinion and back it up with knowledge you've gained through previously stated experience. Post better. Don't post links to articles or just talk about some made up qualifications you have.

8/20/2010 6:26:12 PM

I'm an expert on privatized prisons thanks to seeing the movie Fortress with Christopher Lambert and the dad from That 70s Show.

8/20/2010 7:16:04 PM

^^ Would you like me to recite the policy manuals or what? If you'd like to know something, ask me a question. But it doesn't matter; you're not interested in what I may offer--you're only interested in dismissing me and attempting to diminish me.

8/20/2010 9:48:46 PM

No, I don't want you to recite anything, you basically do that already. I want you to process NEW thoughts and points and use evidence or logic to back them up.

I know it may seem like I'm just writing you off because I don't like what you post, but I'm actually trying to encourage you to post better because I don't like how you post. I don't do this with LoneSnark or destroyer because I can get in good conversations with them. I don't do this with Solinari or aaronburro because there's no hope to ever get in good conversations with them. You have the potential to make good arguments, you just always resort to posting a link or using a fallacy instead because they're easier. Do it or don't, it's fine, but when I see you do little things like excluding the middle or just claiming argument from authority, I'm going to call you out on it.

8/20/2010 11:09:49 PM

Quote :

"If you'd like to know something, ask me a question."

8/21/2010 7:10:54 AM

No one should need to ask you a question. You made some sort of an assertion about government prisons in response to the OP. I presented you with information that at least appears to be contradictory to some obtuse reference you were probably trying to make about gov prisons being at least no better than private. That plus your experience should be more than enough to give us an information dump about both public and private prisons.

You're a scab on The Soap Box.

8/21/2010 9:56:45 AM

^ Please stop name-calling. And I should've never come into this thread; some of you aren't interested in anything beyond your own opinions and/or attempting to dismiss, demonize, or otherwise diminish me.

[Edited on August 23, 2010 at 11:57 AM. Reason : I won't come back here. If my answers were certified by the ACA, you still wouldn't accept them.]

8/23/2010 11:46:37 AM

Baby please don't go
Baby please don't go
Baby please don't go
down to New Orleans
You know I love you so
Baby please don't go


Well your man done gone
Well your man done gone
Yeah ya man done gone
Down the county farm
He got the shackles on
Baby please don't go


So I’ll be the dog
So I’ll be the dog.
So I’ll be the dog.
Getcha way down here
And make you walk the log

8/23/2010 1:55:22 PM

I'm not saying that the dude probably wouldn't have escaped and killed anybody if we'd given him the needle, but...wait, no, that's exactly what I'm saying. He wouldn't have escaped and killed anybody if we'd killed him first.

And just to be clear, one of the buddies that escaped with him was serving the much-vaunted "life sentence," right? At least we nabbed him before he could off anybody (though it may have been the one that exchanged gunfire with cops, I can't remember).

8/23/2010 2:22:24 PM