The more I read the news and see all the stories about Muslims rioting over stupid things like “Draw Muhammad Day” or “Burn the Quran Day”, I begin to wonder. Are Muslims like the bratty kids that we all knew growing up that you could easily provoke, and because it was so easy we pushed their buttons to purposely provoke them so we could make fun of how retarded they were? I’m starting to think of Islam in the same way. Admittedly, I was generally the instigator growing up. I guess it just amazed me at how something so trivial could enrage someone so greatly. So now we find ourselves in a world full of people like me, who push people’s buttons for pure entertainment, provoking Muslims just to see how they will react. The interesting thing is that the Muslims are proving themselves to be even more wacked out then we thought. This is getting very interesting and I can’t help but wonder when something drastic is going to happen. Until then I’ll just sit back, glued to my computer screen and make sure to have plenty of pop-corn on hand.

9/16/2010 9:16:40 AM

Here's the problem with "Make fun of Islam" vs. either of the previous events. In "Make fun of Islam" you are in no way differentiating between the radical Muslims who actually do react to cartoons and burning paper in violent ways and moderate Muslims who do not.

Better would be a "Make fun of superstition" day. Every religion and mystical belief deserves our ridicule. Every day should be "Make fun of superstition" day.

9/16/2010 9:52:28 AM

The problem with provoking Muslims for pure entertainment value is that while you sit at home laughing, your actions have very real consequences for people who represent us overseas. Do I think that it is ridiculous that people react violently to something that seems trivial to you or I, absolutely. I've been on the other side of the wall from these types of protests, I've lived in a fortified residence, I accepted the risks when I agreed to go BUT is your entertainment worth losing american lives?

9/16/2010 10:04:15 AM

Quote :

"BUT is your entertainment worth losing american lives?"

9/16/2010 10:12:16 AM

Man, poking and prodding Muslims has worked out so well for the US, let's do it some more. What is the worst that could happen, a Muslim soldier gets pushed over the line and kills our war fighters on US soil? No way that could happen. Hey, I can't imagine an MBA holding loner to get pushed over the edge and attempt to bomb Times Square. Why, this is the most brilliant idea I've ever heard.

9/16/2010 10:18:14 AM

U.S. cartoonist in hiding after cleric's threat
Artist 'essentially wiping away her identity' following Muhammad drawing
Sept. 15, 2010

Quote :

"SEATTLE — A cartoonist has disappeared from public view because she's on an Islamic cleric's hitlist for declaring 'Everybody Draw Mohammed Day' last spring, according to a newspaper that ran her drawings. Seattle Weekly Editor in Chief Mark D. Fefer posted an article Wednesday saying Molly Norris is 'moving, changing her name and essentially wiping away her identity' on the advice of the FBI."

Quote :

"On her website at the time, she wrote that the cartoon was satire and she did not really mean that May 20 should be 'Everybody Draw Mohammed Day.' 'I apologize to people of Muslim faith and ask that this "day" be called off,' she said at the time."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39203336/ns/us_news-security

You'd better call off this "day" and apologize, sparky. I remember when a cartoonist had to go into hiding for drawing Jesus--oh, that's right, this never happens.

9/16/2010 10:26:12 AM

The vast majority of Muslims aren't that easily provoked, it's just that the ones who are have a large number of terrorist organizations to choose from and a mainstream media all too willing to push that extremist narrative.

9/16/2010 10:26:37 AM

Anonymous people making threats? This never happens in the non-Muslim world, right?

9/16/2010 10:29:10 AM

Please, God, no one show Muslims the internet. If they realize how frequently we shit on their religion, there's no telling what they might do.

9/16/2010 10:31:30 AM

^^^ and ^^ It only takes one to kill you. And the FBI considers the threat so serious that they warned the cartoonist. For goodness' sake, she has moved, changed her name, and had her identity wiped for the mere suggestion that cartoons be drawn--are some of you simply going to poo-poo this as you do most things?

It never ceases to amaze me the contortions some of you will twist yourselves into to the defend the indefensible.

[Edited on September 16, 2010 at 10:52 AM. Reason : EVERY RELIGION DOES IT! SO WHAT?! ISLAMOPHOBE! RAWR!!!1 ]

9/16/2010 10:49:08 AM

Thanks religion!

9/16/2010 10:54:29 AM

Quote :

"Are Muslims like the bratty kids that we all knew growing up that you could easily provoke, and because it was so easy we pushed their buttons to purposely provoke them so we could make fun of how retarded they were?"

You're definitely a product of the 90's. Is your world really this small?

Quote :

"The interesting thing is that the Muslims are proving themselves to be even more wacked out then we thought."

Yeah it's something wrong with the Muslims, not with you.

Quote :

"Until then I’ll just sit back, glued to my computer screen and make sure to have plenty of pop-corn on hand."

How about go to the Middle East and push them in their own streets, big bully boy?

Look, do I think it's wrong that people get threatened with violence over this shit? Of course. Nobody should get hurt over stuff like this, but continuously and childishly pushing the Muslim world like this betrays a complete lack of respect and a complete lack of being able to consider other cultures. "Hey we got Hollywood, the internet, and post-modern humor! What the fuck is wrong, don't these people get it!?!?" They don't respond the same way as us, big fucking shock.

[Edited on September 16, 2010 at 11:34 AM. Reason : .]

9/16/2010 11:28:12 AM

Contrary to tdub, I kind of respect people who stand up to those who mock and satirize their beliefs. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I support violence. I don't even support Islam. I think it's a misled religion. But, a healthy uproar and indignation is in order.

If someone came and smacked a loved one (wife/mom/husband/child) in the face, purely out of disrespect, don't you think you'd be a little perturbed. Maybe it would get you mad? Possibly, you'd resort to violence and attack them back?

Don't be a hypocrite and resort to bigotry (i.e., this thread) to counter bigotry (i.e., radical Islamics). Have a little respect for someone's beliefs and everyone will live at peace (for the most part).

9/16/2010 11:31:50 AM

With all due respect, I agree with your last sentence. Now if only theists would extend that attitude not only to other theists, but also to atheists.

9/16/2010 11:35:32 AM

just lol

9/16/2010 11:35:50 AM

OK in all seriousness...I respect Islam and know that the majority of Muslims are not like the radical ones getting all of the media attention. I would never do anything to purposely offend them. Do I think that rioting and threatening to kill someone over something as insignificant as a cartoon...yes...definitely. But there are wackos everywhere.

9/16/2010 11:54:53 AM

You realize that even moderate Middle Eastern Muslims will act in ways that surprise us culturally when their religion is intentionally pissed upon?

It's not surprising Christians are shocked that even moderates in the Middle East will march when their religion is insulted, however, given how seriously Christians treat their own religion.

If I shouted "FUCK THE STEELERS!" during a playoff game in Pittsburgh I'd probably get brutally and passionately beaten. But no, it's those Middle Easterners that are the crazy brutes!

[Edited on September 16, 2010 at 11:59 AM. Reason : .]

9/16/2010 11:58:55 AM

Quote :

"It never ceases to amaze me the contortions some of you will twist yourselves into to the[sic] defend the indefensible."

FTFY.

Btw, you have it all wrong. People aren't defending fanatics, they are defending the innocent minority getting trampled on by your ilk that conflates their religion with the one prostituted by fanatics.

It matters not the reason that people get twisted into lunatic rage, it only matters that they are lunatics. How are these people any different than McVeigh, the Joe Stack, the Discovery Channel shooter, postal workers going postal, cops taking their hatred out on [pick your group here], abortion clinic bombers (and those that threaten abortion doctors), those making death threats against the president, Westboro Baptist, ad nauseam.

It's guys like you, masquerading as having a clue that is fucking it up for the rest of us that can see through the bullshit pumped in you by the MSM and your own deluded fantasies for what reality is and isn't.

[Edited on September 16, 2010 at 12:03 PM. Reason : .]

9/16/2010 12:01:05 PM

It's funny that people imagine these limp-wristed liberalthz defending any and everybody who opposes their political opponents lol

9/16/2010 12:12:46 PM

^^ Nobody cares about your hooksaw derangement syndrome, Chance. The fact of the matter is that if someone were to send this very thread to certain Muslims, sparky could be in danger.

A woman simply suggested that some draw cartoons and now she has had to move, change her name, and have her identity wiped on advice from the FBI--many of you have poo-pooed this, just as I indicated you would. And I don't recall this type of threat happening with other belief systems over the mere suggestion of drawings.

It's ridiculous that some of you feel the need to swoop in here and defend your PC version of religious tolerance or some such just because others are acknowledging actual reality. If there were more condemnation of this sort of thing from the majority of moderate Muslims, then it wouldn't be happening--but they're scared of being murdered, too.

^ Nice stereotype with the lisp.

9/16/2010 12:48:49 PM

Quote :

"If there were more condemnation of this sort of thing from the majority of moderate Muslims, then it wouldn't be happening--but they're scared of being murdered, too."

Something about gay people and Christians.

9/16/2010 1:20:09 PM

Quote :

"imagine these limp-wristed liberalth"

like omg haaaaay

On a serious note, you should realize that gay men actually have more of an anti-lisp, with unusually sibilant "s"-sounds; listen to this guy for example: http://current.com/shows/infomania/thats-gay/

9/16/2010 2:31:12 PM

url says it all

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1312539/Nightclub-forced-change-Mecca-threats-Muslim-extremists.html

9/16/2010 10:32:08 PM

Quote :

"Nobody should get hurt over stuff like this, but continuously and childishly pushing the Muslim world like this betrays a complete lack of respect and a complete lack of being able to consider other cultures."

This is the problem with the progressive critique of the situation. It's assumed that all the acrimony is just the result of a big misunderstanding. If only people would do more considering of a culture that riots over a cartoon, surely they would see that this is actually a respectable tradition. It's not that they've examined something and found it to be distasteful. That's impossible - it is impossible for a culture, or any aspect of it, to be distasteful. No, the problem is just that some people are bigots.

Quote :

""Hey we got Hollywood, the internet, and post-modern humor! What the fuck is wrong, don't these people get it!?!?" They don't respond the same way as us, big fucking shock."

So what if they treat their women like chattel, brainwash their children, burn embassies, murder infidels and blasphemers, and all of that? Who are we to talk? We've got MTV and the Big Mac!

9/16/2010 11:29:21 PM

It’s the muslims that have to put bars on their mosque windows and gates around their worship sites in the US, not the Christians.

Quote :

" But a quick review of media accounts in the past six weeks—roughly the time that mosque mania has filled the airwaves—turned up at least 13 reports of anti-Muslim violence or property damage. Five of the incidents were serious enough to draw federal hate crime investigations. (Scroll down for graphic.) In the most high-profile incident, late last month, NYPD arrested a 21-year-old white film student after he allegedly stabbed New York City taxi driver Ahmed Sharif. The suspect, Michael Enright, reportedly asked Sharif if he observed Ramadan before slashing him across the neck and arm, all while yelling, “This is a checkpoint!” At least three others have been physically attacked across the country, including a Sikh 7-Eleven attendent who was allegedly punched in side of the face by an assailant who thought he was Muslim. At least six mosques have been targeted with graffiti, arson or had windows smashed. In Queens, a drunk man entered a mosque and urinated on prayer rugs while yelling “terrorists.” In Nevada, a wall was spray painted with, “Burn the Koran? Why? Just burn Muslims.” These incidents, drawn from a scan of national and local press, are likely just the tip of the iceberg. Abed Ayoub, legal director of the American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee (ADC), a national advocacy organization, says the ADC has received hundreds of reports of attacks this year alone. Some reports, he says, are of violent attacks while others are hate speech. "

http://colorlines.com/archives/2010/09/violent_attacks_against_muslim_and.html

The muslims rioting in other countries are being tricked by their religious leaders into believing false information, just like conservatives in the US are being tricked by Fox News into believing false information.

Americans aren’t above being violent, reactionary idiots.

Quote :

"Some other incidences of backlash violence include: a man driving his pick-up truck into the door of the Islamic Center Mosque in Tallahassee, Florida, threatening phone calls to the president of the Arab American Institute, and other local business owners and families of Middle Eastern and Asian descent, conspiracy to damage and destroy, by means of explosives, the King Fahd mosque in California, assaults committed against two people of Indian descent who managed a hotel in Tennessee, and two jars filled with cotton and gasoline were set on fire in front of a local restaurant owned by a Pakistani-American in Utah.4 These are only some of the numerous hate crimes committed around the country after September 11. Post September 11, many innocent people have become the victims of misguided hate because of their appearances and beliefs. The U.S. government and local communities have come together to support these victims and to prove that the perpetrators of such violence are in the minority. The Ameri-Dream Charity, Inc., along with the Arab American Institute Foundation, established the Arab"

http://gbgm-umc.org/umw/legislative/hatecrimes.html

After 9/11, attacks on all brown people, even those not affiliated with Islam or Arabs in any way, shot up significantly.

It’s FAR safer to be a Christian in American than to be a Muslim in America. Does this say anything about Christians?

I guess though if you’re all about emotion and not reason, you can satisfy your primitive instincts by demonizing Muslims, and pretending American Christians are beyond reproach.

If you want to tally things up, muslims in the US have more to fear from so-called Christians than the other way around.

Quote :

" is just the result of a big misunderstanding. If only people would do more considering of a culture that riots over a cartoon,"

haha are you kidding? You say it’s not a misunderstanding, and then go on to post a gross misunderstanding of the situation. Muslims as a group aren’t violent and don’t call for violence any more than blacks as a group. I don’t recall anyone here blaming Jesus for the decades of terrorism in Ireland. The common theme among people who riot is politics, economic hardship and poverty, not Islam.

It’s plain stupidity to blame this on Islam. Muslims have plenty of dumb beliefs, but violence isn’t really a part of it.

[Edited on September 16, 2010 at 11:45 PM. Reason : ]

9/16/2010 11:41:33 PM

Quote :

"Americans aren’t above being violent, reactionary idiots. "

For sure. But I wouldn't include in this category people who use controversial (but perfectly legal) methods to make legitimate criticisms of certain aspects of Islamic culture.

Quote :

"Muslims as a group aren’t violent and don’t call for violence any more than blacks as a group."

This statement is hilariously stupid. Think about it for little while. It will come to you.

Quote :

"I don’t recall anyone here blaming Jesus for the decades of terrorism in Ireland."

In that case, consider me not particularly compelled by your ignorance.

Quote :

"The common theme among people who riot is politics, economic hardship and poverty, not Islam."

Right. Because it's totally normal for poor people half way around the world to riot over a proposed book burning in Gainesville, Florida. Haven't you heard? The Mongolians are going nuts over this!

[Edited on September 17, 2010 at 12:11 AM. Reason : ]

9/16/2010 11:48:53 PM

Quote :

"Right. Because it's totally normal for poor people half way around the world to riot over a proposed book burning in Gainesville, Florida. Haven't you heard? The Mongolians are going nuts over this! "

Are you kidding? Are you really this naive? You think they are spontaneously rioting? You don’t think there are any political forces who have an interest in people over there hating Americans..? Where have you been the past few years?

9/17/2010 12:14:32 AM

Bullshit, its all bullshit.

Go outside in your neighborhood, put a Bible in the middle of the road, and set it on fire.

Then wait and see if the Christians and Jews protest and call for your death.

Do the same thing with the Quran, and see how fast the Muslims get pissed and call for your death.

A majority of the world is bowing down to Muslim extremists, because a majority of the world is too much of a pussy or whatever to say "Hey, this is not acceptable behavior, we will not bow down to you, you need to keep yourself under control".

Also, since the extremists represent the minority in the major religions of the world (Christianity, Judaism, Islam), it is up to the moderate majority in said religions to step and say "Hey, extremists, calm it the fuck down, you're fucking up our shit".

The problem is, that in Islam, they aren't doing that. And until they do, the extremists will get their way every time, and THAT is the problem. The moderate majority of Islam that does preach peace and forgiveness needs to stand up to their extremist elements, but they won't because THEY are scared to do so as well.

I just wonder what will it take for the moderate majority to stand up to their extremist members.

9/17/2010 9:00:49 AM

You implied that the riots - over the threatened burning of Korans - are not related to Islam. If that were the case, which of course it isn't, then you would, presumably, see rioting in non-Muslim societies.

[Edited on September 17, 2010 at 9:01 AM. Reason : ^^]

9/17/2010 9:00:57 AM

at first I was like "what?", then I saw your carats.

9/17/2010 9:05:57 AM

I agree with raiden. The world is cowering to Islamic extremism. No one wants to speak out against the radical elements, because they don't want to be targeted. If major world and religious leaders came out en masse and said, "hey, we're not going to tolerate your barbaric bullshit anymore, and we're not going to tip toe around the issue," what would happen? This is not something we should just hope goes away, because it won't go away, it's going to get worse.

This isn't about tolerance and respect. Religion deserves neither, especially the violent sects.

9/17/2010 10:37:46 AM

I think the world leaders could come out and say that now, however, I think it will definitely trigger a violent response among those extremists, and the world leaders will have to be united and strong in their response to that. The message will have to get across to the average person that they can stand up to these extremists, to give them no quarter, and will need to have the confidence that not only their government, but the governments of the world is behind them.

The uneducated masses (those are typically the ones being used as suicide bomber tools by the extremist leaders) will need to be addressed and informed as well.

Its not a simple solution by any means, but it does start with the leaders of the world, leaders of corporations, and everyday citizens (regardless of nation) to say "hey, extremists (Muslim, etc), we are not afraid, this shit is unacceptable, and we will hold you accountable for your actions. No longer will we say 'its ok, because they are doing on behalf of a religion.' So just fucking stop it or be stopped."

However, I don't really see that happening until a majority of the countries are getting royally fucked up due to Muslim extremists randomly protesting and burning shit down just because their pussy got hurt.

9/17/2010 10:46:29 AM

Yeah, we're not there yet. Europe is seeing it, though.

9/17/2010 10:53:24 AM

Oh definitely. Europe is getting it bad. It'll be awhile before its like that here in the US. Then we'll see what happens.

9/17/2010 11:34:23 AM

Quote :

"This is the problem with the progressive critique of the situation. It's assumed that all the acrimony is just the result of a big misunderstanding. If only people would do more considering of a culture that riots over a cartoon, surely they would see that this is actually a respectable tradition. It's not that they've examined something and found it to be distasteful. That's impossible - it is impossible for a culture, or any aspect of it, to be distasteful. No, the problem is just that some people are bigots."

Yawn. As if I don't have a bone to pick with various practices around the world. Do you think I actually don't care how women are treated in middle eastern countries? Please.

The issue here is an issue of respect. People are intentionally insulting a culture that's entirely different in terms of what responses are appropriate, and then holding up the differences between their reactions and ours (usually apathy) and crowing about how silly it is. The only thing that's silly here is that two cultures have met; one has a wealth of information and the luxury to sit around developing critical and abstract reasoning, and the other is too hungry and destitute and oppressed to do anything of the sort. Many Muslim countries are pre-Enlightenment in their outlook, because nothing similar occurred there. Yet you're expecting these people to react just like the MTV generation to a bunch of disrespectful bullshit? Fuck how THEY respond, WE should know better.

Quote :

"So what if they treat their women like chattel, brainwash their children, burn embassies, murder infidels and blasphemers, and all of that? Who are we to talk? We've got MTV and the Big Mac!"

Drop it you fucking bore, this is nothing I would ever endorse.

Quote :

"But I wouldn't include in this category people who use controversial (but perfectly legal) methods to make legitimate criticisms of certain aspects of Islamic culture."

Bahaha now the legality is all that matters? And suddenly shitting on an entire culture intentionally is making a "legitimate" criticism of "certain aspects of Islamic culture"? READ. PLEASE. READ.

Quote :

"Right. Because it's totally normal for poor people half way around the world to riot over a proposed book burning in Gainesville, Florida. Haven't you heard? The Mongolians are going nuts over this!"

Poor Americans vote politicians into office that bomb people half-way around the world. What's your point? A couple of yokels in the middle east protest or riot and your panties are in a bunch? At least you're not under constant credible threat of violence.

Quote :

"A majority of the world is bowing down to Muslim extremists, because a majority of the world is too much of a pussy or whatever to say "Hey, this is not acceptable behavior, we will not bow down to you, you need to keep yourself under control". "

Obviously this is true; they should not be violent. We should not be intentionally disrespectful, either. We have direct control over us, not them. So we should know better and stop it, and act like fucking adults, not like drunk hillbillies with a bone to pick.

Quote :

"Also, since the extremists represent the minority in the major religions of the world (Christianity, Judaism, Islam), it is up to the moderate majority in said religions to step and say "Hey, extremists, calm it the fuck down, you're fucking up our shit"."

Yeah why aren't more normal citizens taking on paramilitary organizations with international funding?

Quote :

"I just wonder what will it take for the moderate majority to stand up to their extremist members."

Maybe some credible support from the West rather than smash-and-grab, wholesale robbery that does nothing but empower the aforementioned militants?

Quote :

""hey, we're not going to tolerate your barbaric bullshit anymore, and we're not going to tip toe around the issue," what would happen? This is not something we should just hope goes away, because it won't go away, it's going to get worse."

Can we stop insulting 1.8 billion people intentionally and disgracefully while we're at it?

Quote :

"This isn't about tolerance and respect. Religion deserves neither, especially the violent sects."

Literally nobody gives a fuck that you just read Richard Dawkins. Shut the fuck up and go the fuck away you ridiculous boring idiot.

Quote :

"The uneducated masses (those are typically the ones being used as suicide bomber tools by the extremist leaders) will need to be addressed and informed as well. "

You first.

Quote :

"However, I don't really see that happening until a majority of the countries are getting royally fucked up due to Muslim extremists randomly protesting and burning shit down just because their pussy got hurt."

Hey idiot: I know you like to pretend that Muslims are burning the world around you, but wake up and realize that Muslims are the TARGET of violence in this country.

9/17/2010 12:06:30 PM

You're a tool. Have you ever tried making a point without resorting to ad hom? Chill the fuck out dude.

9/17/2010 12:21:20 PM

You still don't know what an "ad hom" as you call it is. Read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

I am not addressing any arguments you're making. I'm simply insulting you.

9/17/2010 12:24:44 PM

Quote :

"Every religion and mystical belief deserves our ridicule. Every day should be "Make fun of superstition" day."

Atheists really hate religion don't they?

9/17/2010 12:35:57 PM

Quote :

"Atheists really hate religion don't they?"

I don't hate it, but I don't have to like it either.

9/17/2010 12:39:13 PM

^x5 Deadly Vanguards:
A Study of al-Qa’ida’s Violence Against Muslims
December 2009

Quote :

"The fact is that the vast majority of al-Qa’ida’s victims are Muslims: the analysis here shows that only 15% of the fatalities resulting from al-Qa’ida attacks between 2004 and 2008 were Westerners."

Quote :

"During this period, a person of non-Western origin was 54 times more likely to die in an al-Qa’ida attack than an individual from the West. The overwhelming majority of al-Qa’ida victims are Muslims living in Muslim countries, and many are citizens of Iraq, which suffered more al-Qa’ida attacks than any other country courtesy of the al-Qa’ida in Iraq (AQI) affiliate."

http://www.ctc.usma.edu/Deadly%20Vanguards_Complete_L.pdf

9/17/2010 12:49:18 PM

Quote :

"Can we stop insulting 1.8 billion people intentionally and disgracefully while we're at it?"

Same tired old argument. Look at what you quoted. Did I insult 1.8 billion people? Try again dipshit.

9/17/2010 1:11:23 PM

Quote :

"Same tired old argument. Look at what you quoted. Did I insult 1.8 billion people? Try again dipshit."

This issue is not about targeting and ridiculing extremists; people are insulting an entire religion, and that includes moderates. I asked if we could, as a whole, stop ridiculing an entire set of people of we're only interested in a subset.

Stop swinging off of my dick. There's plenty of stuff you could crawl up my ass about that's legitimate; instead you try for whatever weak-ass, tired attack you can sneak in. Read the wikipedia article yet?

[Edited on September 17, 2010 at 1:17 PM. Reason : .]

9/17/2010 1:17:03 PM

Quote :

"Obviously this is true; they should not be violent. We should not be intentionally disrespectful, either. We have direct control over us, not them. So we should know better and stop it, and act like fucking adults, not like drunk hillbillies with a bone to pick."

I disagree with you on one point. Implying that we should change because they are violent is yet another example of bowing down to the violent tendencies of extremists. Each religion should be held up to scrutiny. Everyone knows that Christianity certainly at times not dealt with criticism well, however, in today's time, its not even news if someone downplays Christanity or does something offensive to Christanity. But if the same thing happens in Islam, the Mulsim world (with lots of egging on by extremists) lose their flipping mind. We (the planet) shouldn't tolerate that, from anyone, and not let the extremists force censorship upon the rest of the world simply because they'll go apeshit.

Quote :

"Yeah why aren't more normal citizens taking on paramilitary organizations with international funding?"

Exactly. They should be, there are more normal citizens than extremists. They're letting the extremists control them. I didn't say it would be a casualty-less affair. By the by, it can be done. Normal citizens can rise and fight and succeed against tyranny. (Heard of the American Revolution, French Revolution, hell, the definition of a Revolution?).

Quote :

"Maybe some credible support from the West rather than smash-and-grab, wholesale robbery that does nothing but empower the aforementioned militants?"

I'm sorry, what robbery?

Quote :

"Can we stop insulting 1.8 billion people intentionally and disgracefully while we're at it?"

Sure, lets not insult the 2.5 billion Christians, the 1 billion Hindus, the 1.5 billion Buddhists, the 18-20 million Jews, or any population of any religion at all. In fact, let us all sit around a campfire together, smoke a peace pipe, and live happy in the hippy commune. It just isn't going to happen. What CAN happen is people acknowledge that each religion will come under scrutinty and/or ridicule at some point, and that rioting and the declarations of death sentences/holy wars is NOT the appropriate way to counter that scrutiny/ridicule.

Quote :

"Literally nobody gives a fuck that you just read Richard Dawkins. Shut the fuck up and go the fuck away you ridiculous boring idiot. "

I didn't necessarily agree with the line that you replied to, however, the way you replied insulted his beliefs. Way to hold up to your own principles in your previous statement.

Quote :

"You first."

Hey there homeslice, I've deployed overseas, twice. I've assisted villages in removing themselves from the oppression of extremist rule. What have you done?

Quote :

"Hey idiot: I know you like to pretend that Muslims are burning the world around you, but wake up and realize that Muslims are the TARGET of violence in this country."

I'm sorry, you're right. They have a legitimate reason to be like that. They are under attack. ZOMG. I toally missed that it was Muslim extremists who are killing people and protesting over a book burning that never happened. and many other things. No one religion is completely innocent, but you cannot deny that they are doing the majority of violence with regards to random suicide bombings, rioting, issuing of fatwas & jihad.

Tell ya what, go to church this sunday, and burn a bible in the parking lot, see what happens. After that, go to any middle eastern country, and do the same thing to the quran. see how quickly you get killed.

9/17/2010 1:42:16 PM

Quote :

"^^ Nobody cares about your hooksaw derangement syndrome, Chance."

If it were an actual syndrome then I should hope that indeed no one cares. I don't even know wtf you mean. And I don't know who Chance is or why you think I'm him or her.

Quote :

"The fact of the matter is that if someone were to send this very thread to certain Muslims, sparkymerely being a Muslim in the US means you could be in danger. "

FTFY. Just asked cab drivers in NY.

Quote :

"A woman simply suggested that some draw cartoons and now she has had to move, change her name, and have her identity wiped on advice from the FBI--many of you have poo-pooed this, just as I indicated you would. And I don't recall this type of threat happening with other belief systems over the mere suggestion of drawings. "

This shouldn't be a discussion of what other religions tolerate this. We're trying to push democratic principles and free speech ideals across the world in the most asinine way as possible and then acting dumbfounded when a culture not founded on our principles takes offense to it. How about we first stop blowing them up, especially when crime fighting techniques at home are proving to be pretty fucking good at stopping the existing lunatics from killing us, and then we can have a discussion on "the problem". I suspect when we stop giving them reason to get pissed off, they'll look inward and kill themselves or look for regional targets to take out their angst on.

Quote :

"then it wouldn't be happening--but they're scared of being murdered, too."

This needs to be emphasized. Because you have just echoed the argument being made by normal people, that this isn't a religious thing but a fanatic thing. Did you even realize you did it? Doubtful.

Quote :

"Go outside in your neighborhood, put a Bible in the middle of the road, and set it on fire. Then wait and see if the Christians and Jews protest and call for your death. "

I've already undermined this argument, see my first post.

Furthermore, fanatics come in all stripes.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/09/13/delaware-gop-chair-threat_n_714525.html

Quote :

"The threat, issued in the form of an email, told chairman Tom Ross that he deserves "a bullet in the head" for backing "political ass-kissing RINO's" [Republicans in name only]."

For fucks sake, there is very little distinguishing the fanatics of Islam and the fanatics of Conservatism. They are both slaves to their ideology and threaten violence in defense of it.


[Edited on September 17, 2010 at 1:53 PM. Reason : .]

9/17/2010 1:47:32 PM

Quote :

"I disagree with you on one point. Implying that we should change because they are violent is yet another example of bowing down to the violent tendencies of extremists. Each religion should be held up to scrutiny. Everyone knows that Christianity certainly at times not dealt with criticism well, however, in today's time, its not even news if someone downplays Christanity or does something offensive to Christanity. But if the same thing happens in Islam, the Mulsim world (with lots of egging on by extremists) lose their flipping mind. We (the planet) shouldn't tolerate that, from anyone, and not let the extremists force censorship upon the rest of the world simply because they'll go apeshit."

It would be one thing if this were all caused by reasonable criticism. Burning a Koran is not a reasonable "criticism" of Islam, nor is ridiculing revered figures in their religion. This is all caused by disrespectful poo-flinging. Stopping the poo-flinging has nothing to do with "bowing down" to terrorists or extremists. It has to do with being a well-adjusted human being.

Quote :

"Exactly. They should be, there are more normal citizens than extremists. They're letting the extremists control them. I didn't say it would be a casualty-less affair. By the by, it can be done. Normal citizens can rise and fight and succeed against tyranny. (Heard of the American Revolution, French Revolution, hell, the definition of a Revolution?)."

I'm sorry but this is a foolish opinion. You're suggesting that poor, destitute people arm themselves (with what money?) and go after well-funded, well-connected, ruthless organizations. Ridiculous.

Quote :

"I'm sorry, what robbery?"

Palestine is the best example.

Quote :

"Sure, lets not insult the 2.5 billion Christians, the 1 billion Hindus, the 1.5 billion Buddhists, the 18-20 million Jews, or any population of any religion at all. In fact, let us all sit around a campfire together, smoke a peace pipe, and live happy in the hippy commune. It just isn't going to happen. What CAN happen is people acknowledge that each religion will come under scrutinty and/or ridicule at some point, and that rioting and the declarations of death sentences/holy wars is NOT the appropriate way to counter that scrutiny/ridicule. "

Of course violence is not the right response. But then again, neither is burning a Koran.

Quote :

"I didn't necessarily agree with the line that you replied to, however, the way you replied insulted his beliefs. Way to hold up to your own principles in your previous statement."

His beliefs are based on pure and simple anti-scientific stubbornness. Besides, as an atheist he holds nothing holy, so I'm not treading on any deep sensibilities here by calling him out for parroting another notable prick.

Quote :

"Hey there homeslice, I've deployed overseas, twice. I've assisted villages in removing themselves from the oppression of extremist rule. What have you done? "

Improved some neuroscientific methods. Looks like we're both productive members of society. Then again, I was making a comment about your poor level of education and how you should improve it. How is ground-pounding with a rifle evidence of an education?

Quote :

"I'm sorry, you're right. They have a legitimate reason to be like that. They are under attack. ZOMG. I toally missed that it was Muslim extremists who are killing people and protesting over a book burning that never happened. and many other things. No one religion is completely innocent, but you cannot deny that they are doing the majority of violence with regards to random suicide bombings, rioting, issuing of fatwas & jihad. "

Way to completely miss the point. I'm not justifying violence of any kind, but to pretend that Islam is burning the globe is ridiculous seeing as how, so far as I can tell, it's been Christians doing the burning for a solid 500 years now.

Quote :

"Tell ya what, go to church this sunday, and burn a bible in the parking lot, see what happens. After that, go to any middle eastern country, and do the same thing to the quran. see how quickly you get killed."

What point do you imagine to be making?

[Edited on September 17, 2010 at 2:01 PM. Reason : .]

9/17/2010 1:59:55 PM

I agree that the Muslim world doesn't hold a monopoly when it comes to fanatics, however, instead of their more moderate members speaking out against them, the rest of the world has to bow to the fanatics or get blown up.

Again, my point regarding bible/quran burning.

9/17/2010 2:01:53 PM

Quote :

"I agree that the Muslim world doesn't hold a monopoly when it comes to fanatics, however, instead of their more moderate members speaking out against them, the rest of the world has to bow to the fanatics or get blown up. Again, my point regarding bible/quran burning."

What point do you imagine to be making?

Also: see if you get away with burning a Torah in an Orthodox neighborhood LMAO

9/17/2010 2:02:54 PM

^but would there be riots, etc?

9/17/2010 2:11:12 PM

I myself thought for awhile that moderates should be speaking out but thats a pigheaded way of thinking about it. Moderate Muslims are no different than non-Muslims in that they aren't fanatics, so why should any special onus be on them to say anything? You do realize the fanatics kill moderates as well for not believing to the extreme that they do, right? So what can they say? You already know the answer, so it's just whistling in the wind.

The best we can do is to continue to be vigilant here to root out the fringe loners that want to be something (by being martyrs), and stop blowing poor return on investment dollars trying to set up Democracies from the top down on the other side of the continent.

Quote :

"^but would there be riots, etc?"

Which Muslims rioted in the United States? Which Muslims anywhere in the world that aren't impoverished, rioted? There is a common theme here, and it isn't religion.

[Edited on September 17, 2010 at 2:13 PM. Reason : .]

9/17/2010 2:11:42 PM

Quote :

"^but would there be riots, etc?"

Assume there wouldn't be. What's your point?

9/17/2010 2:13:35 PM