Quote :

"A memo circulated by a military defense lawyer the previous week described an inadvertent release of photographs, including three that show American soldiers holding up the heads of dead Afghans"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3NrrXzfz98&feature=player_embedded

No surprise here becuase one had to wonder when they say the insanely high civilian death rates that have accumulated over the course of 9 years. Most of our troops are good but we also have a large amount of mentally ill troops. Weather the illnesses were preexisting and made them enlist in the first place or the trauma of war drove them mad is yet to be told. I do feel strongly that this is however just the

TIP

OF

ICEBERG

9/29/2010 12:11:50 AM

i don't think it's official US military policy to sport murder civilians

9/29/2010 12:13:46 AM

Its not. I meant to link the article but the troops are being charged with murder by the army. Still doesn't make the US less responsible or erase the fact that every troop represents the country.

9/29/2010 12:18:19 AM

Quote :

"we also have a large amount of mentally ill troops."

I would like you to present some sort of evidence along with this claim.

9/29/2010 12:35:54 AM

Lets ignore the fact that many people join the military to carry out video game fantasies for a moment...
http://www.columbiatribune.com/news/2010/apr/11/psychological-problems-grow-military-deployments/
http://www.nejm.org/doi/pdf/10.1056/NEJMoa040603
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/13/AR2009111304266.html

Quote :

"Meanwhile, soldiers in Afghanistan are having greater difficulty getting help for psychological problems, for a variety of reasons, including a shortage of psychiatrists and other mental health workers, the survey showed."

Quote :

"The Army had about 43 behavioral health personnel in Afghanistan when the survey was conducted from April to June, or about one for every 1,100 soldiers. The Army is working to improve that ratio to one for every 700 soldiers, and to assign more mental health providers to brigades and battalions."

Quote :

"Similarly, about 30 percent of soldiers who have deployed three times or more meet the criteria for having a psychological problem, compared with about 14 percent on the first deployment and 18 percent on the second deployment"

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/news/2009/11/mil-091114-arnews01.htm

Quote :

"While the mental health and morale of Soldiers in Iraq is improving, according to the latest study, more behavioral-health providers are needed in Afghanistan."

Suicide, mental illness among Marines growingAugust 26, 2010
http://articles.sfgate.com/2010-08-26/news/22235376_1_camp-lejeune-mental-illness-marines

Quote :

"Now the Marines are struggling against an enemy that has entrenched itself over nearly a decade of war: mental illness."

9/29/2010 12:49:32 AM

it may not be the "official" policy

but it's the supar-sekrit type
the same type that lets them beam out those radio waves i gotta block out with my tinfoil hat

9/29/2010 12:59:36 AM

The US is directly responsible for all actions of its troops and just by gauging the wide range of dates on the articles I listed its borderline criminal negligence.

9/29/2010 1:09:38 AM

Quote :

" WEATHER THE ILLNESSES "

9/29/2010 1:19:49 AM

Quote :

"Lets ignore the fact that many people join the military to carry out video game fantasies for a moment..."

THIS is how you identify a well-trained troll. First, take something stupid, identify it as fact, then brush it to the side as if it doesn't matter to REALLY get people drawn into the trolling.

He's a seasoned veteran.

9/29/2010 2:06:08 AM

1) It's probable that there's a disproportionately high number of psychologically disturbed people in the military. This shouldn't be a surprise. Given PTSD and brain injuries sustained in combat (which is what one of the soldier's attorneys was pointing to, with at least some evidence), that's inevitable.

The above would be true for any active military force.

2) One of the great shames of the US military is its lack of adequate care for psychologically damaged soldiers. I'm inclined to believe that this will change in the near future, at least somewhat. For now, though, it's a problem.

3) "The US is directly responsible for all actions of its troops" -- this is false. Va. Tech was not responsible for that kid going crazy and shooting everybody. Columbine was not responsible for those two assholes going crazy and shooting everybody. USPS isn't responsible for the events that led to the phrase "going postal." Etc, etc.

9/29/2010 5:23:24 AM

Quote :

" WEATHER THE ILLNESSES "

[Edited on September 29, 2010 at 7:34 AM. Reason : quote]

9/29/2010 7:34:00 AM

Quote :

"No surprise here"

9/29/2010 8:08:56 AM

Thats what happens when you present irrefutable evidence to support your argument. trolls start talking about spehleeng.

9/29/2010 8:52:30 AM

Ignore the well-thought and entirely valid responses from merbig and GrumpyGOP and deflect using the people that pick on you. Bravo. Are you a bot?

9/29/2010 9:47:09 AM

this thread should be moved to chit chat.

9/29/2010 10:09:00 AM

^

Quote :

"The Soap Box politics, social issues, financials. basically anything serious, but only if the TSB clique approves."

9/29/2010 10:14:56 AM

a few less terrorists.

9/29/2010 10:40:29 AM

Quote :

"insanely high civilian death rates"

Compared to what?

9/29/2010 10:45:38 AM

Quote :

"The US is directly responsible for all actions of its troops"

Until your activities to stop something you claim to find so objectionable (say . . . refusing to pay any taxes on account of your opposition to your money going to the war effort) go beyond bitching about it on an internet bulletin board, I'm inclined to recommend that you change the proper noun "US" to the pronoun, "we" in your sentence.

[Edited on September 29, 2010 at 11:22 AM. Reason : .]

9/29/2010 11:22:10 AM

Quote :

"The US is directly responsible for all actions of its troops"

you're one of those idiots who doesn't know what responsibility means.

unless the U.S. gov't told soldiers to sport kill afghans, the responsible party is the troops who did so, not the army/military/DOD/U.S. people/U.S. gov't/etc. and those troops should be punished to the fullest extent of the law.

9/29/2010 11:30:12 AM

mambagrl is all talk and I see why he made a female screenname because he has all vagina down there.


My suggestion to mambagrl is to enlist and tag the civilians with blue and tag the enemy with red so the US knows who is who. You seem to be the only one that can tell the difference.

[Edited on September 29, 2010 at 11:41 AM. Reason : .]

9/29/2010 11:40:46 AM

Quote :

"Similarly, about 30 percent of soldiers who have deployed three times or more meet the criteria for having a psychological problem, compared with about 14 percent on the first deployment and 18 percent on the second deployment""

Suffering from stress or anxiety hardly qualify someone as mentally ill, you fucking troll.

9/29/2010 12:01:47 PM

Quote :

"My suggestion to mambagrl is to enlist and tag the civilians with blue and tag the enemy with red so the US knows who is who. You seem to be the only one that can tell the difference. "

You are not really a genius, are you?

This is not about collateral damage, but sport killing. Jesus talk about idiocy.

9/29/2010 12:04:39 PM

Quote :

""The US is directly responsible for all actions of its troops""

well, there is an element of truth in that, especially if you make it less generalized and less absolute. Let's try:

"The US military is responsible for the actions of its troops"

now this is more or less true. it's definitely the perception. and "US Military" includes the civilian leadership (SECDEF, POTUS) because individual servicemembers represent the military and the military represents the US government. anyone who says otherwise is either a liar or a lifelong civilian who never served in the military and has no clue what they're talking about. the actions of this one sergeant, and the squad he controlled, may have profound effects of the US military at the strategic level.

the US military is having a general credibility problem right now, and needs to have more oversight on their troops' behavior as well as mental health. The sergeant leading this "hunting group" appears to exhibit traits of a pathological serial killer. never mind that the base command wasn't able to keep track of what was going on, one of the junior soldier's father called multiple commands in the US military to tell them what his son had confided was happening, long before the recent murderd were brought to light, and nobody acted on his information.

now the reality is that Pentagon officials are extremely concerned that if these "kill pictures" the soldiers took while they posed with the people they murdered ever get out, it will do more damage to US security and increase recruitment into pro-Taliban groups and militant Islamist groups like al-Queda... much more than Abu Ghraib ever did.





[Edited on September 29, 2010 at 1:36 PM. Reason : ]

9/29/2010 1:23:51 PM

Quote :

"This is not about collateral damage, but sport killing."

Sport killing
War killing

Who the fuck cares. People are dead.

9/29/2010 2:32:32 PM

Trying to cover up your idiotic mistake? Well, you can't.

And now your views on murder are clear.

GTFO.

[Edited on September 29, 2010 at 2:36 PM. Reason : You are a terrorist.]

9/29/2010 2:34:12 PM

trying to figure out why you can't come up with a better reply?


it's because you know there's no such thing as an innocent civilian just by looking at them when you declare war on a country.

[Edited on September 29, 2010 at 2:38 PM. Reason : .]

9/29/2010 2:37:06 PM

Quote :

"[Edited on September 29, 2010 at 2:36 PM. Reason : You are a terrorist.]"

LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

9/29/2010 2:42:01 PM

Quote :

"it's because you know there's no such thing as an innocent civilian just by looking at them when you declare war on a country."

You fucking illiterate buffoon troll

This is not about collateral damage, but sport killing.

9/29/2010 2:51:29 PM

Trap on a rampage today and you newbies can't handle it

9/29/2010 3:58:44 PM

Quote :

"Lets ignore the fact that many people join the military to carry out video game fantasies for a moment..."

What in the fucking hell?!

9/29/2010 4:49:01 PM

Quote :

"What in the fucking hell?!"

You think it's a coincidence "America's Army" exists?

Quote :

""Changing the Game: How Video games are Transforming the Future of Business October, 2008." David Edery, Microsoft Xbox executive and research affiliate of the MIT Comparative Media Studies Program, and Ethan Mollick, researcher at the MIT Sloan School of Management, investigate the future of video games. They cite the combat medic training received by Paxton Galvanek to save a life as "tangible evidence of the power of games to educate". (p. 97) Furthermore, the book praises America's Army by saying "Far-sighted companies are using games to recruit, train, motivate, and make employees more productive" (p. 97) and includes research that supports this point: "30% of all Americans age 16 to 24 had a more positive impression of the Army because of the game and, even more amazingly, the game had more impact on recruits than all other forms of Army advertising combined." (p. 141)"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America%27s_Army#Academic_references

9/29/2010 4:55:06 PM

because you incorrectly used

Quote :

"Weather"

I immediately discard anything you say. You can't get your shit together enough to form a coherent thought with the correct words. This denotes a lack of intelligences.

[Edited on September 29, 2010 at 5:09 PM. Reason : you fail at english. ]

9/29/2010 5:05:57 PM

lots of cray cray up in here

[Edited on September 29, 2010 at 5:06 PM. Reason : cray cray means crazy. ]

9/29/2010 5:05:57 PM

Crazy this stuff happened or crazy you will ignore every piece of evidence that this stuff happened?

9/29/2010 5:18:53 PM

Quote :

"You think it's a coincidence "America's Army" exists?"

To be fair, none of what you posted supports the idea that "many people join the military to carry out video game fantasies". Never mind that even if AA was bringing in more people with "fantasies" than any other piece of military recruitment / propaganda, it still wouldn't be generating any fantasies about hunting down civilians for sport.

9/29/2010 5:53:32 PM

This has been going on for some time. The G.I. Joe television series was a marketing campaign that the Department of Defense approached Mattel with in the late 70s / early 80s. It isn't a particularly well known fact but it isn't a partiularly hidden one either.

One of the consequences of an all-volunteer military is that you need people to volunteer. Realistically, There is a market for 18 - 21 year old's attention and the DoD is going to compete in it like everyone else. If you don't like it, re-instate the draft so everyone has to serve (then you'd get a more heterogeneous mixture of service members) or compete in the market on your own terms.


That being said, it is a bit simplistic to assume all SMs are just video game addicted junkies who are all to eager to trade their Wii in for an M-4.

9/30/2010 10:52:45 AM

9/30/2010 1:23:11 PM

Quote :

""many people join the military to carry out video game fantasies""

"many video game fantasies are derived from people who have actually lived the reality of the fantasy that is portrayed in video games"

9/30/2010 2:43:36 PM

It similar to all of the ape murders in the 80s by people who'd been brainwashed by Donkey Kong.

9/30/2010 2:58:00 PM

This phenomenon dates back to well before video games. If you want to blame someone, blame the sick bastard who invented



Benjamin Franklin was going to discover electricity, BEFORE HIS BRAIN WAS RUINED BY ADDICTIVE WAR GAMES.

[Edited on October 1, 2010 at 9:35 AM. Reason : ]

10/1/2010 9:33:14 AM

Straight out of Call of Duty:

Quote :

"Sources: Possible drone strike in Pakistan kills 8 Germans Eight suspected German nationals were killed in a suspected drone strike in northwestern Pakistan, two Pakistani officials said Monday. The strike happened in the Mir Ali area of North Waziristan, the officials said. Missiles struck a building that eight suspected German militants were in, the officials said. The eight are believed to have been members of the group Jihad al Islami, the officials said."

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2010/10/04/sources-possible-drone-strike-in-pakistan-kills-8-germans/

My biggest fear is that they unlocked an artillery strike with their seventh kill and haven't used it yet.

10/4/2010 1:45:19 PM

A suspected drone strike? Does that mean Pakistan isn't sure whether they launched the missiles or someone else did?

10/4/2010 3:28:29 PM

I think it means the damage is consistent with the craters/shrapnel found at other drone strike sites, but they don't have the radar signatures or the visual evidence (or heresay by the locals) required to lend more credence to the idea.

10/4/2010 7:52:22 PM

Sometimes drones go rogue. Dammit man, didn't you see Stealth with Jamie Foxx?

10/4/2010 9:24:53 PM

Quote :

"Lets ignore the fact that many people join the military to carry out video game fantasies for a moment..."

These people do exist, though I think their numbers are overstated because of the way the lingo has carried over back and forth between video games and military slang. And let's remember that people were signing up for the army long before video games existed. The majority almost always sign up because the job offers:

1) A steady wage.
2) Opportunity for advancement.
3) Prestige (to people that aren't hippies or foreign, anyway)

Sometimes there's also an element of "duty to country."

Rarely, I think, do people do it because it sounds fun. And those people would think it was fun regardless of whether they'd ever touched an X-Box. Some people are wired to be addicted to adrenaline, competition, violence, etc.

The aforementioned "America's Army" game is just recruitment brought to a newly popular media. Don't video games make more money than movies at this point? The army would have been pretty stupid if, with the advent of movies and TV, they stuck with posters and songs like "Over There."

10/5/2010 3:50:40 PM

Srsly though don't let them get to 25.

10/11/2010 4:03:36 PM

Quote :

"Rarely, I think, do people do it because it sounds fun."

Oh, I think a lot join because they expect it to be fun. The Army isn't a bad gig for all the reasons you mentioned above, plus the fact that you're not stuck in a goddamn cubicle all day pushing TPS reports.

10/11/2010 5:00:59 PM