This is one of the saddest stories I have ever heard, and it disgusts me that things that this still happen:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/30/nyregion/30suicide.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&hp

Quote :

"It started with a Twitter message on Sept. 19: “Roommate asked for the room till midnight. I went into molly’s room and turned on my webcam. I saw him making out with a dude. Yay.” That night, the authorities say, the Rutgers University student who sent the message used a camera in his dormitory room to stream the roommate’s intimate encounter live on the Internet. And three days later, the roommate who had been surreptitiously broadcast — Tyler Clementi, an 18-year-old freshman and an accomplished violinist — jumped from the George Washington Bridge into the Hudson River in an apparent suicide."

9/30/2010 4:10:21 PM

What's sad is that people don't realize that they're basically being filmed constantly. If it has a camera, assume it's watching you.

9/30/2010 4:13:30 PM

^it sounds like you're blaming the victim for not checking his roommate's computer

9/30/2010 4:14:34 PM

If my roommate had a webcam when I lived on campus I would have covered it up before doing anything that I didn't want to be seen.

9/30/2010 4:21:01 PM

that doesn't make it any less wrong

9/30/2010 4:23:03 PM

Well I am sure the book will be thrown at is roomate (as it should be) and when he goes to jail there won't be a webcam but he may be involuntary subjected to similar sex acts.

9/30/2010 4:36:25 PM

^ What's he going to go to jail for? invasion of privacy. If the roommate doesn't have a previous record, I don't see what he should go to jail for. Charged with something? Sure. there are probably some privacy laws he broke by streaming the feed.

but streaming your roommate's sexcapades /= murder.

I'm kinda tired of seeing this story in the headlines already. People kill themselves everyday. There's nothing special about this. Should the roommate have turned on the camera to spy on him, no. Is it really the end of the world... not at all. Should he have streamed it, no. Is that really worth killing yourself over, no. Is it the roommate's fault Clementi killed himself, absolutely not.

I feel sad for the Clementi kid. But jumping off a bridge was his choice. People go through A LOT worse and don't kill themselves. I do truly feel sorry for him. But the other kid should not see jail time for this. People do far worse and don't go to jail.

[Edited on September 30, 2010 at 4:49 PM. Reason : .]

9/30/2010 4:48:27 PM

heard about this on Ron and Fez earlier...


apparently a few people on campus knew, but the parents didn't, and supposedly that was part of the reason he decided to jump. It would be awful to be those parents and think that your son couldn't bare to let who he was be known to them, and that was part of the reason he chose to take his own life

9/30/2010 4:56:33 PM

Quote :

"streaming your roommate's sexcapades /= murder"

how many thousands of girls get duped into getting their nudes posted online? i feel bad for the guy for getting embarrassed like that, but that's no reason to take your life. and the fact that he felt it did just makes me sad he didn't have the courage to live with his true self

Quote :

"It would be awful to be those parents and think that your son couldn't bear to let who he was be known to them, and that was part of the reason he chose to take his own life"

[Edited on September 30, 2010 at 5:07 PM. Reason : sad story]

9/30/2010 5:05:03 PM

have to agree^.

It was definitely very morally wrong and something I definitely could never do myself, but I think it is silly to think they should "throw the book" at him.

[Edited on September 30, 2010 at 5:10 PM. Reason : ]

9/30/2010 5:08:49 PM

Quote :

"i feel bad for the guy for getting embarrassed like that, but that's no reason to take your life. and the fact that he felt it did just makes me sad he didn't have the courage to live with his true self"

9/30/2010 5:11:19 PM

Seems like a lot of trouble just to get yourself all A's for a semester.

9/30/2010 5:14:17 PM

^lulz

9/30/2010 5:39:59 PM

so he was upset because he didn't want anyone to know...

...and decided the best way to handle it was to make sure the entire nation knew?

9/30/2010 6:07:59 PM

Quote :

"Misuse of technology led to suicide"

Don't be a luddite.

Queue the cyberbully laws...

9/30/2010 9:01:06 PM

Quote :

"i feel bad for the guy for getting embarrassed like that, but that's no reason to take your life."

Quote :

"..and decided the best way to handle it was to make sure the entire nation knew? "

qft

9/30/2010 9:06:47 PM

Quote :

"how many thousands of girls get duped into getting their nudes posted online?"

for some reason methinks "faggot" is a harsher insult than "slut"

9/30/2010 9:15:57 PM

Found out my roommate was spying on me while I was doing it.

Should I:
Slough it off?
Bitch at him?
Get help?
Talk to someone about it?
Go to the authorities?

Nah, I'll kill myself instead.

[Edited on September 30, 2010 at 9:22 PM. Reason : -]

9/30/2010 9:19:59 PM

-shrug- they're both used equally derogatory imo

and ultimately, this guy was ashamed or otherwise couldn't deal with being exposed as gay. that's sad b/c people shouldn't be embarrassed about being gay if that's who they are. it's arguable that "sluts" should be embarrassed for being exposed as such

9/30/2010 9:20:34 PM

Quote :

"people shouldn't be embarrassed about being gay if that's who they are"

Greetings, visitor from a future century!

this is the year 2010 bucko, don't let anyone know your a faget especially in the south or rural amurrikkka

9/30/2010 9:26:02 PM

[Edited on September 30, 2010 at 9:30 PM. Reason : .]

9/30/2010 9:28:28 PM

The society we live in still makes people feel like they can't be themselves. That's the worst part about it.

9/30/2010 9:32:39 PM

^ But committing suicide is hardly the way to go about changing that fact. What happened to "Queer, Here, get used to it"?

9/30/2010 10:04:35 PM

^^ sure, blame society for his cowardess

9/30/2010 10:09:00 PM

This was my comment on it in the what are you thinking about now thread yesterday. Don't have much to add to it at this point:

Just read these stories:

http://pamshouseblend.com/diary/17482/rutgers-frosh-kills-himself-after-roommate-spy-cams-him-in-samesex-encounter

Quote :

"18 year old Tyler Clementi, a freshman at Rutgers University in New Jersey, reportedly jumped off a bridge to his death after his roommate secretly set up spy cameras in his dorm room, filmed him making out with another guy, and then posted the videos on Twitter."

And

http://www.pamshouseblend.com/diary/17465/the-epidemic-continues-parents-say-bullies-drove-their-son-to-take-his-life

Quote :

"Asher Brown's worn-out tennis shoes still sit in the living room of his Cypress-area home while his student progress report - filled with straight A's - rests on the coffee table. The eighth-grader killed himself last week. He shot himself in the head after enduring what his mother and stepfather say was constant harassment from four other students at Hamilton Middle School in the Cypress-Fairbanks Independent School District. Brown, his family said, was "bullied to death" - picked on for his small size, his religion and because he did not wear designer clothes and shoes. Kids also accused him of being gay, some of them performing mock gay acts on him in his physical education class, his mother and stepfather said. The 13-year-old's parents said they had complained about the bullying to Hamilton Middle School officials during the past 18 months, but claimed their concerns fell on deaf ears."

I argue in the soap box all the time on the policy level why bad laws like DOMA & DADT should be removed (gov controlling our lives bad, economically bad, waste of resources to fire well trained personnel, & so forth) , but this is a very human reminder why we shouldn't as a society go out of our way to make gay = less than.

9/30/2010 10:26:46 PM

there are some really callous people in this thread. Imagine your intimate moments out on the internet, the hurt and humiliation that would cause. Especially for this kid who was ashamed of his sexuality. Many people (probably Tyler's family included) are less than fond of gay sex and I can't imagine how he felt when he realized what happened. Sure there were other contributing factors, probably anxiety or depression. mental illness loaded the gun, but his roommates pulled the trigger.

I just can't believe some of the comments I'm seeing. Tyler should've realized he was being filmed?? Tyler should've just "bitched at" his roommate?? Being gay is no big deal?? (yeah, tell that to Matthew Sheppard's family) Someone in the chit chat thread said there's nothing wrong with filming your own apartment. You should all be ashamed of yourselves.

9/30/2010 10:31:27 PM

Quote :

"You should all be ashamed of yourselves."

...how ashamed?

9/30/2010 10:36:13 PM

What happened was...


he was GAY.

and GAY people are HAPPY.

and the news of the STREAMING made him SAD.

but GAY people can't be SAD.

once GAY always GAY.

so he threw his GAY ass into a symbolic STREAM.

to be GAY forever in GAY guy land up above.

9/30/2010 10:38:01 PM

I would just like to point out that the underlying crime wasn't committed by stereotypical redneck types. And I'm very sorry the young man felt the need to end his life over the situation at issue.

9/30/2010 11:01:43 PM

How do we know he killed himself over this?
How do we know he didn't kill himself because he found out he had AIDS?
Did he leave a suicide note?

9/30/2010 11:11:36 PM

i dont think any amount of jail time, fine, whatever, could come close to the guilt I would imagine the room mate has for directly influencing a persons decision to take their life. Thats far worse IMO

9/30/2010 11:57:24 PM

^^

Quote :

"The Star-Ledger of Newark reported that Mr. Clementi posted a note on his Facebook page the day of his death: “Jumping off the gw bridge sorry.” Friends and strangers have turned the page into a memorial."

And thank you Nerdchick, I was relieved when someone else actually showed some sympathy

10/1/2010 12:53:22 AM

^^^ That was one of the first things I was thinking as well, maybe it had to do with something else or something more overarching. While it's likely that this contributed in someway, it's obvious (imo) that he had some bigger issues for him to have killed himself. --- * the average person doesn't get the idea nor balls to commit suicide just out of nowhere over 1 thing. I'd be willing to bet he's thought about it before and has possibly tried it before.

From reading the articles and what he posted on some sites after the incident, he didn't seem distraught over the incident itself. Everything he said about it (that I've seen) seemed pretty reasonable. But i don't know the kid and how he handles his problems.

But whether this was part of the reason or not, it was not the ultimate reason he took his own life. People so rarely get suicidal thoughts/inclinations just like that. And they very seldom follow through just like that.

I'm no expert, but I know a few people who have dealt with clinical depression and other issues for a long time. And I know how foreign the notion of suicide is to a "normal" person. This kid was probably hurting for a long time before this.

Quote :

"mental illness loaded the gun, but his roommates pulled the trigger."

He pulled the trigger himself. I have a lot of sympathy for the kid. but "pulling the trigger" is very specific notion. The roommate didn't push him off of the bridge. He did that by himself. And it's very unfortunate that he wasn't able to reach out to someone or that they weren't able to help if he did. While it's very sad and unfortunate that Climenti had problems, the roommate probably wasn't aware and it's not his responsibility. He's kind of a douche for streaming the video. But he didn't "pull the trigger." This kind of thing would not cause the average person to go out and kill his or herself. Next we're gonna be blaming the guy who cut some chick off on the highway if she goes home and hangs herself. I don't like the notion of that at all. When it comes to suicide, you have to put some responsibility on the deceased.

Quote :

"I just can't believe some of the comments I'm seeing. Tyler should've realized he was being filmed?? Tyler should've just "bitched at" his roommate??"

fwiw, whoever said the bolded part is right imo. Bitching his roommate out probably would have been a much better option in the long run than killing himself - do you really disagree with that? And if we could talk to a 30 year old Tyler who has gotten through whatever problems he was experiencing and knew what was out there for him, I'd bet he would agree that "(he) should've just bitched at his roommate."

Quote :

"I was relieved when someone else actually showed some sympathy"

you can be sympathetic and still disagree with the notion that the roommate is to blame, or think that he had other and better options.

[Edited on October 1, 2010 at 1:05 AM. Reason : ^]

10/1/2010 1:05:12 AM

Seems like this guy was a bummer.

Glad i didn't know him

I'm AstralAdvent and i approved this message.

10/1/2010 2:38:09 AM

^life's a bummer
when you're a hummer
life's a draaaagggg...

Anwyay, I'll expand slightly on what I said earlier, kind of in response to Nerdchick.

I do have sympathy for the kid and I think that what his roommate did was 100% wrong. I could NEVER be that mean to someone; it's just not in my nature. However, I was just trying to provide some rationale from the non-emotional side of this problem.

This stuff happens a LOT these days with easy access to webcams and smart phones and the internet. People do this to friends all the time these days as a "prank." Be it catching them solo or with a partner. Even think all the way back to the UT porn that everyone talks about on here. I don't think there was anything especially malicious going on simply because the roommate was gay or anything. I wouldn't be surprised at all if the roommate would have done a similar thing at some point if the roommate was straight and had a girl back in the room.

Of course, as I've said previously, I do not think that invading someone's privacy like this is morally right. I do also understand that, while I may be pretty tolerant, not everyone is, and this definitely has the potential to be more embarrassing than something like the UT porn for that reason.

In the end though, I don't think the guy who turned on the webcam should get any more severe of a punishment simply because Tyler killed himself. I think from a legal standpoint the two need to be entirely separated. He can be convicted of some sort of invasion of privacy but the involuntary manslaughter charges and stuff that people are talking about on other boards I have read are just too much sensationalism for me.

10/1/2010 8:57:08 AM

i'm far from a lawyer, but i don't think they could legally stick ravi or wei with involuntary manslaughter anyway

it's my understanding that in the vast majority of states, involuntary manslaughter requires criminal negligence of some sort...though i suppose invasion of privacy (which this could be considered) is a misdemeanor, i'm not sure that taping a person who is fully clothed engaging in a lawful act (he was just making out with another guy while fully clothed, right?) would fall under anything but the lowest class (or class-less) misdemeanor (seems like most states require a state of undress or actual nudity in a place where there is a reasonable expectation of privacy)

moving from "he videotaped two guys kissing" to "he directly caused the victim such emotional distress that he jumped off a bridge to his death" is really pushing it

10/1/2010 9:19:35 AM

Quote :

"When it comes to suicide, you have to put some responsibility on the deceased."

Or...most.

Quote :

"Imagine your intimate moments out on the internet, the hurt and humiliation that would cause."

It may cause none for some folks. It may cause a lot for others.

Quote :

"Especially for this kid who was ashamed of his sexuality."

Speculation.

Quote :

"Sure there were other contributing factors, probably anxiety or depression."

You have it backwards. If you have symptoms of suicidal tendencies(anxiety, depression, etc), that is the problem. Things or events that drive you to commit suicide are contributing factors (case of the Mondays, being spied on).

Quote :

"mental illness loaded the gun, but his roommates pulled the trigger."

Bad analogy.

[Edited on October 1, 2010 at 9:55 AM. Reason : -]

10/1/2010 9:54:52 AM

why are kids killing themselves because of being bullied?

Back in the day, you told your dad or the 'rents found out because you came home with a black eye; then your dad or the dude that your mom was presently fucking would take you out in the backyard, teach you how to fight. Then next day, you punch and swiftly kick said bully in the balls, problem stops.

10/1/2010 9:59:42 AM

it seems like you have two ways of looking at this:

1. he should have filed charges, his roommate would have gotten probation and a fine (i imagine) and life would be fine and dandy (for the roommate at least..... and i imagine after some time people would forget about what happened to the victim, except for family and friends and a few others)

2. the guy should have more than a basic charge thrown at them so that maybe people can realize that they're actions have consequences (gasp!)

i am in no way condoning suicide. i think its a puss way out. but still, you cant push something like this aside.
you can press charges all you want but the authorities cant make shit like this go away.
ask erin andrews.

i'm kinda on the edge with this though.

you can't charge a girl with involuntary manslaughter b/c she called another girl with body dysmorphic disorder fat, but what if she makes a webpage about how shes fat, what if she takes her underwear and passes it around school? should there be a line drawn?



[Edited on October 1, 2010 at 10:19 AM. Reason : jkl]

10/1/2010 10:18:03 AM

^if they want to make an example out of the kids, they should follow through with the invasion of privacy stuff -- the thing he actually did with no questions. no doubt about that. But is that not example enough? much beyond that and actual prison time is way too far imo. I mean ridiculously too far.


regarding the charges: the last I saw, the official charge will be some sort of invasion of privacy thing. however, they're considering whether or not to make it a "bias" (hate) crime or not. If they do, the max prison time will go from 5 years to 10 years.

But this kid is not going to see jail time for this. There are trials everyday for people who have physically assaulted someone and the accused doesn't see the inside of a prison. It would be ridiculous if this kid got more than a slap on the wrist. And that would be justice for his actual actions imo. It is not his fault Clementi killed himself. Tyler had very serious problems that no one person or thing caused. They should not bring the fact that he killed himself into the severity of the charges or sentence imo.

[Edited on October 1, 2010 at 10:33 AM. Reason : .]

10/1/2010 10:19:18 AM

Horay for hate crimes!

Also, something about religion permeating homophobia.

10/1/2010 10:50:09 AM

weak minded fool offs himself

there are assholes in the world

technology is responsible for neither

news at 11

10/1/2010 10:59:32 AM

Quote :

"weak minded fool offs himself there are assholes in the world technology is responsible for neither news at 11"

10/1/2010 11:02:42 AM

Quote :

"The society we live in still makes people feel like they can't be themselves. That's the worst part about it."

yea like i dont feel like i can be a black republican baptist without rebuke, i know what youre sayin bro

Quote :

"I would just like to point out that the underlying crime wasn't committed by stereotypical redneck types. And I'm very sorry the young man felt the need to end his life over the situation at issue."

nah man dont bring that reasoning BS into this...its always THOSE DAMN MURRRKIN REDNECKS

[Edited on October 1, 2010 at 11:32 AM. Reason : d]

10/1/2010 11:29:33 AM

if only God was still here to tell us stories.

10/1/2010 12:46:06 PM

Nerdchick and bdmazur already covered everything I want to say

If some of you people actually believe the shit you write down then you're scary individuals

10/1/2010 2:02:40 PM

I'm curious...

How is this situation any different than... something like a "Nanny Cam"
It was after all the other kid's room too, right?

I'm interested to see how they make this stick - and what implications it has on someone's right to privacy vs my right to surveillance on my property. Now if there is a specific university policy prohibiting this, then I can understand the university taking action - but how can it be illegal to record a room that you live in?

10/1/2010 2:18:45 PM

^i dont think it was the recording that is the major issue-its the distributing

[Edited on October 1, 2010 at 2:21 PM. Reason : hjbhjhb]

10/1/2010 2:21:26 PM

Quote :

"how can it be illegal to record a room that you live in?"

I would think that someone making out with another dude behind a closed door in their room has a reasonable expectation of privacy, regardless of who else he shares the room with.

10/1/2010 2:24:58 PM

Quote :

"Privacy in a SHARED room"

10/1/2010 2:30:46 PM