If you haven't been following the 4th district congressional race at all, BJ Lawson has been criticizing (ad nauseum, if you follow the race) Price for voting with Nancy Pelosi more than any other congressman. Whatever you think of that, though, is completely irrelevant to the point I am about to make.

After a while, Price started to try and defend it, while simultaneously trying to make it seem as though BJ was using a some less than formidably tactic. He said that "referring to the leader of the party" is the "oldest trick in the book" rather than focusing on the race at hand. Now, this is funny for a couple of reasons. The first is that in 2008, Price linked BJ to Bush over and over, despite everyone knowing that BJ attacked Bush on many issues. The second, and more damning in my mind, is this little tidbit from a candidate questionnaire that he filled out in 1996 with the Herald-Sun in Durham after his opponent (Fred Heineman) displaced him in 1994:

Quote :

"I've been very surprised and disappointed in the performance of the incumbent Fred Heineman. Rather than serving as an independent voice for the 4th District, he has voted with Newt Gingrich and the Republican leadership 95 percent of the time. He rarely breaks ranks with the Speaker, and has been one of Gingrich's most unquestioning allies on close votes."

I have reached out to the campaign for comment, and will let you know if they even bother to touch this with only one day remaining until the election. I will not be holding my breath.

[Edited on October 31, 2010 at 9:38 PM. Reason : redundancy]

10/31/2010 9:37:02 PM

If that's the worst you have on him, he's the most honest politician ever. So all those anti-incumbent tea partyers, I bet they won't be so anti-incumbent next time.

[Edited on October 31, 2010 at 10:13 PM. Reason : ?]

10/31/2010 10:09:39 PM

The worst? No, it is just such incredibly blatant hypocrisy that should be brought to light.

It is, however, more broadly indicative of his whole tendency to do/say whatever it is that he needs to do to stay in power, and worry about justifying it later (or as it was once put...closing the door after the horse has left the barn). That's how we got things like his vote for the PATRIOT Act, Oil Pollution Act of 1990, repeal of Glass-Steagall, etc, etc.

[Edited on October 31, 2010 at 10:34 PM. Reason : -]

10/31/2010 10:34:04 PM

I hope you aren't a poli sci major...

11/1/2010 7:24:07 AM

A politician criticizes and opponent for doing something he himself has done.

New. Thought provoking.

11/1/2010 9:24:47 AM

I'm not saying this is admirable, and it is hypocritical, but virtually every politician criticizes others for things they themselves have done. I'm not saying it's a problem, but it's kind of like calling somebody out for speeding on the interstate.

11/1/2010 11:03:26 AM

A politician criticizes and opponent for doing something he himself has done.

New. Thought provoking.

11/1/2010 12:06:31 PM

A politician criticizes and opponent for doing something he himself has done.

New. Thought provoking.

11/1/2010 1:44:33 PM

There are overreactions, and then there is this thread.

11/1/2010 1:48:55 PM

also, why the fuck did you start this thread when there is another thread on the same race that you already posted in?

when are you going to come clean as a campaign worker for Lawson?

11/1/2010 3:25:52 PM

I have volunteered for him in the past, but I am not, nor ever have been, a part of his campaign staff. I AM, however, a constituent of David Price, and will continue to be at least through January.

I didn't make this thread because this was some earth-shattering peace of evidence that was going to assure that he would end up in front of a judge. I just thought it somewhat unusual, because you don't often get the chance to see such un-defendable hypocrisy in such clear terms. And as I also previously stated, I believe it is more telling about the bigger picture of him as a representative.

People can talk about how redundant it is that there is a hypocritical politician out there, but if it was really so blatantly obvious to everyone, we wouldn't see a bunch of hypocritical asshats getting elected to public office all around the country. I fail to see the harm in shedding light on this.

11/1/2010 4:44:19 PM

Quote :

"I just thought it somewhat unusual, because you don't often get the chance to see such un-defendable hypocrisy in such clear terms. "

No, you get the chance to see this very same thing every day.

11/1/2010 4:54:52 PM

It is obvious, but people don't care.

The issue is so trivial that you'd be stretched to extend this behavior to anything meaningful. To an extent, this is exactly what you expect during campaign season from a politician. The only people who are going to pretend to give a crap are the people with their minds made up. I don't believe for two seconds that you yourself are genuinely outraged about this specific issue, I believe you're trying to attract an anti-Price circlejerk contingent to join you in feigning superiority over anybody with the audacity to consider voting for Price.

11/1/2010 4:58:53 PM

Here's more hypocrisy:

http://www.lawsonforcongress.com/posts/honesty-is-the-best-policy

...which is boilerplate "i believe in honesty" bullshit

vs. this

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1110/Morgan_Freeman_I_never_recorded_campaign_ad.html?showall

Quote :

"Actor Morgan Freeman says a North Carolina Republican and his campaign manager are "lying" in claiming that he narrated a campaign ad for them. BJ Lawson touted the narration, by a voice sounding like Freeman's, and his campaign manager told Byron Tau today that Freeman had narrated the ad. But Freeman spokesman Stan Rosenfeld sends over a sharp denial from the actor: These people are lying. I have never recorded any campaign ads for B.J. Lawson and I do not support his candidacy. And, no one who represents me ever has ever authorized the use of my name, voice or any other likeness in support of Mr. Lawson or his candidacy."

---------------

So there you go.

11/1/2010 5:09:00 PM

Well then! I'm glad to see you know my intentions, after I have made 121 posts on a message board (most of which are completely unrelated to politics).

I have no intention of creating some lovefest of people who hate Price. I probably hate more of the people who can't stand Price than I hate Price himself (and that is saying a lot).

For the 3rd or 4th time, it has nothing to do with just the simple fact that he said this one thing. It's not like he flip flopped on one single issue by saying this. He just literally made the case for why he should not be elected. I'm sorry that more people were not as surprised by this as I was. I'm fairly confident that if it came out that Richard Burr (or Virginia Foxx, or Pat Mcrory, or whoever...) said a couple of years ago that Republicans shouldn't be elected to congress, there would be at least some sort of interest.

Oh yeah, David Price also kicks children in the face.

11/1/2010 5:11:08 PM

^^

You're right, and that was pretty damn dumb of them to lie about something that could easily be proven false.

11/1/2010 5:13:10 PM

Hate Hate Hate

RAWR RAWR RAWR

complaining about David Price has never been done before.

Quote :

"I have reached out to the campaign for comment"

"reached out to the campaign," have you? well, isn't that just adorably bi-partisan of you. I'm sure they deeply appreciate such a good faith gesture on your part.

But now, really, you come here to make a thread about how a career politician tries to attack his opponent while spinning his opponents attacks to make himself look like the good guy?

REALLY???

Go on, get the fuck out.






[Edited on November 1, 2010 at 5:31 PM. Reason : ]

11/1/2010 5:25:48 PM

Quote :

"you don't often get the chance to see such un-defendable hypocrisy in such clear terms"

POLITICS

11/1/2010 5:36:40 PM

I "reached out" because I'm not some idiot who is going to go shout them down in public to voice my grievances.

Jesus christ, I was browsing lexis nexis bored the other day, and posted something I found interesting. Fucking sue me.

11/1/2010 6:02:15 PM

What is even more pathetic than Price being a hypocrite, and Lawson lying about Morgan Freeman doing an ad for them is the fact that WRAL has the story about Lawson above that of a break in the case of missing child and another child who died yesterday.

11/1/2010 6:10:20 PM

Since we're doing 2 threads now... might as well not recreate the wheel.

----

As many congressmen who have districts that span multiple cities, he has an office in each to meet with constituents so at any given time he is necessarily not at more than one of them which makes me find this video a bit disingenuous:



And a push poll here:

http://www.orangepolitics.org/2010/08/lawson-push-polling-in-nc-4

Quote :

"votes with Nancy Pelosi more than any other member of Congress. If this makes you more likely to vote for him, press 1. If it makes you less likely, press 2." Final question, same button choices: "BJ Lawson is a father, a medical doctor, and a successful small businessman who is reported to have strong grassroots support who will lower taxes and restore the Constitution blah blah blah..." The most interesting question was about whether or not I supported Federal regulations that may add burdens to local and small farmers who sell at Farmer's Markets. Perhaps Lawson is trying this out as a wedge issue against Price? "

Where does Lawson stand on the regulation of large drilling operations like that of BP? Or even on the existence of the EPA? Or affordable student loans & grants? What about the CDC? What about any group that has to respond to problems that don't respect state lines like oil spills & spread of disease? I know he's anti-gay marriage & anti-abortion. And if I recall correctly he referred to one of his GOP opponents from the primary as supporting communism.


I think he'd make a better republican challenger to Etheridge. Found this photo on his fb page in an album called "Tax day Tea Party." Tea Party rallies just aren't going to win you many voters in Orange & Durham & western Wake. Whereas district 2 has southern wake and the surrounding less urban districts where he could do better than the triangle.

I also noticed in looking at his site (when trying to learn about this internal poll) that he's bragging about having the endorsement of social conservative Virginia Foxx, and that he denounces "comprehensive immigration reform" as just other words for "amnesty" in the video attached to this ad:



disco_stu:

Quote :

"Fuck, I don't like either of them."

Mr E Nigma:

Quote :

"I met Lawson at his town hall at the Carolina Brewery a few weeks ago. He's a real douche and he will lose."

11/1/2010 6:10:50 PM

Quote :

"I "reached out" because I'm not some idiot who is going to go shout them down in public to voice my grievances."

Then what, exactly, the fuck was this thread?

11/1/2010 6:20:00 PM

The alternative to going and shouting down David Price, and making a scene? I thought that was fairly clear.

11/1/2010 6:35:49 PM

Maybe, but only if by "alternative to" you mean "same thing as."

11/1/2010 6:38:48 PM

Wait, wait, wait...posting about it on an NC State message board is the same as making a scene in front of David Price about it?

11/1/2010 6:43:54 PM

It's a public message board and imo you can shout somebody down in public without their presence. But if you meant an alternative to physically finding David Price and yelling at him, then OK, it's different.

11/1/2010 6:46:33 PM

Perhaps I've been living in an alternate universe where people have been becoming unruly in the last year or so in front of their representatives, but yes, I was referring to people literally confronting their representatives and being assholes.

11/1/2010 7:00:10 PM

haha, I can't believe that joker ran a commercial with a fake Morgan Freeman voice. How pathetic...

11/1/2010 7:10:29 PM

From WRAL:

"After the discrepancy became clear, Avila said the campaign had a contract signed for a Freeman ad with Los Angeles-based agency M.E.I. Political."

I guess a lawsuit will settle this...weeks/months from now.

11/1/2010 7:29:02 PM

If he believed that Morgan Freeman was going to do an ad for him, he's a damn fool. Liar or fool, either way he's not fit for office.

[Edited on November 1, 2010 at 8:55 PM. Reason : ?]

11/1/2010 8:50:45 PM

Well, they had a contract with a Republican who is known for doing higher-end commercials with celebrities...

http://www.politico.com/static/PPM186_lawson_document.html

11/1/2010 9:04:36 PM

Hey BJ, I can get you Obama's endorsement. Let's make a deal.

11/1/2010 9:12:47 PM

David Price has been around for a while, and I imagine he's done a lot of dirty/stupid stuff.

But the new people (new and therefore presumably clean) who oppose him just always suck so bad.

11/1/2010 9:32:11 PM

AuH20, it does seem apparent from this thread that you are a Lawson supporter who is trying to gain ground with others to see things your way, and hopefully vote against Price. If that is true, then it seems you should have included more credible evidence supporting Lawson and against Price. I'm sure it's out there, as the guy's been a Congressman for quite a while.

I know you're new to TWW, and especially TSB, but one piece of info is that the people who frequent TSB are going to jump all over a you if you don't have solid evidence to support an argument. Again, keep in mind your overall goal to get Lawson supporters (it's possible you are just a neutral party who is making an observation, but it doesn't seem that way), and think about whether you really thought people were going to look at the evidence of hypocrisy here and go, "Yeah, screw Price! I don't like him now."

Just a little TWW advice, take it for what it's worth.

11/1/2010 9:38:05 PM

My intention was not to say, "Look! Price is a hypocrite...vote Lawson!". If that was the case, I would have provided something that was positive about Lawson, instead of making the thread about Price. As I said, Price has been, and will continue to be my representative through at least January. I don't like him, and probably never will. I'm not trying to hide that. Hell, the name AuH20 should be pretty indicative of that.

I'm sorry if people didn't find it newsworthy. I didn't realize that I had to post some groundbreaking story in order to be accepted here.

11/1/2010 10:28:49 PM

Everybody gets one...

11/1/2010 10:31:22 PM

I thought it was Nelson Mandela.

11/1/2010 11:07:04 PM

^^^Dude, that was totally your intention. What did you think you would do? Shit talk Price a couple days before an election, and what? Convince everyone not to vote at all?

No, you intended for people to vote Lawson instead. And you already admitted to volunteering for Lawson in the past...so yeah.

No biggie though, dude. You're cool.

11/2/2010 1:02:48 AM

Wait, so I'm only allowed to make criticism of my representative during a certain period of time away from the election?

I don't care if people vote for Lawson or not. Personally, I wish there were more than 2 candidates running in the race. Unfortunately, there are 2, and one of them happens to people really, really shitty. If the other one doesn't float your boat...don't vote for him!

11/2/2010 1:39:27 AM

Quote :

"one of them happens to people really, really shitty"

And the other is so fucking gullible he believed Morgan Freeman would do a commercial for him for $4500

11/2/2010 2:03:30 AM

Quote :

"one of them happens to people really, really shitty"

I could see if you were saying they both are. But they both have merit & flaws to their name. Again, since we're doing two threads, here's some content from the other one:

Quote :

"Some examples from That's My Congress: "The following are positive progressive actions taken by Congressman Price during the 111th Congress" So I read that to be just since in the past couple of years (might not all be great examples, just skimmed it really quick & grabbed a few, but I think this at least does contain some examples to prove recent productivity that you're concerned about... & this isn't to say David is great, its just to counter act your presentation of no recent productivity):"

And generally he's for education, environmental protections, and public transit infrastructure.

---------------------

Amendment 35 to H.R. 2647

In June of 2009, Congressman Rush Holt introduced Amendment 35 to H.R. 2647 as a countercurrent to the current push for coverup in American military and interrogation activities. Amendment 35 requires military interrogations to be videotaped, with an exception provided at times when there may not be time to set up a camera.

The idea of required videotaping for interrogations is not an external imposition forced upon the military, but an internal recommendation of the Walsh Report in January of 2009, which states:

We endorse the use of video recording in all camps and for all interrogations. The use of video recording to confirm humane treatment could be an important enabler for detainee operations. Just as internal controls provide standardization, the use of video recordings provides the capability to monitor performance and to maintain accountability.

The Holt Amendment passed in a roll call vote by a margin of 224-193.

Rep. Price has acted progressively by voting YES to pass this measure.


---------------------

H.R. 1024

No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States. Nor shall any State deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. These are the American standards of nondiscrimination, chiseled into our legal bedrock in the 14th Amendment to the United States Constitution. How seriously do members of Congress take this section of the U.S. Constitution? H.R. 1024 is a test.

H.R. 1024, the Uniting American Families Act, is a bill which aims to put into closer compliance with the U.S. Constitution by removing discrimination according to the status of permanent couples. According to law, same-sex couples in permanent relationships cannot marry; only different-sex couples can. The creates two classes of couple in the United States. They are separate. Are they equal? Not currently. Under current immigration law, married immigrant spouses of citizens and permanent residents have a preferred route toward gaining permanent resident status themselves. Unmarried partners of citizens and permanent residents have this avenue closed to them. That is unequal treatment under law for immigrants under American jurisdiction, and it is an unequal abridgment of legal privilege for the citizens whose permanent partners wish to join them.

Introduced by New York Democrat Jerrold Nadler, the Uniting American Families Act would end this status discrimination by amending various the immigration laws that discriminate against same-sex couples when one member of a couple is a citizen or permanent resident and the other is seeking citizenship or residency status.

Rep. Price has acted progressively by cosponsoring this bill.


---------------------

H.R. 11

The Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act is a decent bill that seeks to amend an injustice and provide a fair shot at equality in the workplace. It simply says that workers cannot be expected to file suit for compensation for wage discrimination before they actually find out that they’ve been discriminated against. A previous court case, decided against a worker named Lilly Ledbetter, had declared that workers must file a lawsuit within a few months of the time that wage discrimination begins, even if they are unaware of the discrimination at the time. H.R. 11 seeks to remove this preposterous restriction on workplace equality.

Rep. Price has acted progressively by voting YES to pass this measure.

---------------------

H.R. 1310

H.R. 1310, the Clean Water Protection Act, would end the old practice in mountaintop mining of just taking all the heavy-metal-polluted rubble, calling it "fill material," and dumping it into streams from which toxins leach into water supplies and deadly, muddy floodwaters are regularly unleashed.

In 2002, the Bush administration declared that toxin-laden debris from mountaintop removal could be declared "fill material" and dumped into mountain waterways. H.R. 1310 would declare such activity, already dangerous to human health and natural ecosystems, to be illegal.

Rep. Price has acted progressively by cosponsoring this bill.

---------------------

H.R. 2

The Children's Health Insurance Program Reauthorization Act of 2009 makes 4 million children who are currently without health insurance eligible to be added to the rolls of the the State Children Health Insurance Program. This legislation isn't some kind of entitlement to a group of people responsible for their own economic vulnerability. It is the fault of no child to be born into a poor family. Rather, this Act is a wise investment in America's future: healthy children grow up to become productive adults.

Rep. Price has acted progressively by voting YES to pass this measure.

---------------------

H.R. 2517

Since the passage of the Defense of Marriage Act in the 1990s, successive Congresses have made it clear, either loudly or meekly, that there is no intention to give same-sex couples the right to marry at the federal level. H.R. 2517, also known as the Domestic Partnership Benefits and Obligations Act of 2009, would grant same-sex domestic partners of federal workers the same benefits as federal workers' different-sex spouses. For proponents of equality under law in America, this is a step forward for same-sex couples, albeit at a less ambitious scale than full-fledged same-sex marriage.

Rep. Price has acted progressively by cosponsoring this bill.


---------------------

11/2/2010 2:32:10 AM

H.R. 35

Essential to the structure of the Constitution is the concept of the balance of powers between the three branches of government. That balance was disturbed in November of 2001, when George W. Bush issued Executive Order No. 13233. That executive order thwarted the intention of the law by declaring that sitting presidents, former presidents, and even the heirs of former presidents, would have the power to deny the release of public White House records.

Congress and the Judicial Branch cannot check the power of the White House without knowledge of the Executive apparatus that the White House has put into place. Bush executive order interfered with the system of government oversight and review the Constitution put into place. The Presidential Records Act Amendments of 2009, H.R. 35, ended this interference by specifically counteracting Executive Order No. 13233.

Rep. Price has acted progressively by voting YES to pass this measure.


---------------------

H.R. 3567

If passed, the Respect for Marriage Act of 2009 (H.R. 3567) would repeal DOMA, the Defense of Marriage Act. Enacted in the 1990s, DOMA removed the presumption (based in the "Full Faith and Credit" clause of the Constitution) that same-sex marriages carried out in one state would be recognized in other states or by the federal government. H.R. 3567 would restore cross-state and federal recognition, recognition that different-sex marriages continue to enjoy.

Rep. Price has acted progressively by cosponsoring this bill.

---------------------

H.R. 591

The Military Commissions Act is one of the worst laws to be passed by Congress during the Bush years. It revoked the ancient protection of the writ of habeas corpus, enabling arbitrary and indefinite imprisonment. The law ended the right to a fair and speedy trial, setting up a system of kangaroo courts that could operate under absurdly unjust standards. The law gave retroactive immunity to the President and his aides for war crimes. It created unconstitutional exceptions to the Geneva Conventions. It made hearsay and evidence obtained under coercive interrogation admissible.

Under President Barack Obama, the Military Commissions Act is still on the books. It is true that the prisons of Guantanamo Bay and other "black sites" run by the U.S. around the world will be closed... but the laws that enabled them remain in effect. As long as the Military Commissions Act remains on the books, any closure of prisons like those at Guantanamo will be purely voluntary... and wholly reversible.

The surest way to overcome this problem is not just to rely on the trustworthiness of the President of the United States, but to enact a law that specifically contradicts and counteracts the Military Commissions Act. U.S. Representative David Price has introduced legislation to do just that. It’s H.R. 591, the Interrogation and Detention Reform Act. It does away with the unconstitutional military tribunal system. It does away with torture interrogations. It repeals the repeal of habeas corpus and returns constitutional legal protections to the American justice system. Those members of Congress who support H.R. 591 show the most fidelity to their oath of office pledge that they defend the liberties inherent in the Constitution of the United States.

Rep. Price has acted progressively by cosponsoring this bill.

---------------------

Patrick Amendment to H.R. 5136

Substantively, the Don't Ask Don't Tell policy weakens the strained U.S. military by kicking people out with good service records. There is a more formal problem with DADT as well: the policy to discriminate, to kick people out of the military because of their sexual orientation, is a violation of the Equal Protection clause of the 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. Patrick Murphy's amendment to repeal the policy is an amendment not only lending substantive benefit to the military and to lesbian and gay servicemembers, but also providing strength to constitutional government.

Rep. Price has acted progressively by voting YES to pass this measure.

---------------------

Motion to Concur on Patriot Act

On February 25, 2010, the House of Representatives passed an extension of Patriot Act provisions for spying on Americans without establishment of probable cause or so much as a demonstration that the person being spied upon is even tangentially connected to terrorism. This reauthorization of the most controversial of Patriot Act powers made it through the House hidden within Medicare legislations and contained no reforms whatsoever.

Rep. Price has acted progressively by voting NO, against this regressive measure.

11/2/2010 2:32:48 AM