Not sure if this belongs in the Soap Box or Chit Chat, so mods pls send to correct one.

Just wondering if any still celebrate the event of "Santa"? Why or why not?

12/9/2010 8:45:33 AM

i don't have to believe in God to believe in Santa

12/9/2010 8:53:24 AM

Quote :

"i don't have to believe in God to believe in Santa"

Besides, Christmas itself is a conglomeration of a number of rituals and holidays. Personally, I chose to view it as a reffirmation that, at least once a year we pretend to give a shit about other people. That and pagan rituals usually involve burning shit and burning shit is cool as fuck.


Plus the fucking suicide rate would be through the roof if all of the winter was like February.

12/9/2010 8:59:12 AM

Quote :

"Not sure if this belongs in the Soap Box or Chit Chat, so mods pls send to correct one. Just wondering if any still celebrate the event of "Santa"? Why or why not?"

Definitely Chit Chat worthy. Just look at any number of atheist threads in TSB and you will see that the favorite retort of non-educated christians is "IF YOU NO BELIEVE JESUS WHY U CELEBRATE CHRISTMAS DUUURRRRRR IT JESUS DAY"

12/9/2010 9:19:14 AM

Quote :

"ATTN: Atheists"

Quote :

"Christmas itself is a conglomeration of a number of rituals and holidays. That and pagan rituals usually involve burning shit and burning shit is cool as fuck."

I don't under stand what you assertions about polytheistic religious traditions have to do with the OP's question?

The idea of buying into santa because it makes you feel good is along the same lines of rationalization for believing in a religion.

12/9/2010 10:05:33 AM

Quote :

"Just wondering if any still celebrate the event of "Santa"? "

define "celebrate the event of Santa"

Believe in Santa? Dress up as Santa? Put up Santa-themed decorations?

12/9/2010 10:17:28 AM

I really only participate because all of my family does. I view it personally as just a winter celebration.

[Edited on December 9, 2010 at 10:32 AM. Reason : .]

12/9/2010 10:32:37 AM

No. I don't even have a tree or decorations. I will buy gifts to exchange with friends, which I may or may not wrap. On Christmas Day I see family members who definitely do the whole shebang of Christmas traditions.

12/9/2010 10:33:21 AM

Btw, I'm atheist and I just bought a tree. They smell fucking awesome.

12/9/2010 10:41:52 AM

I exchange gifts with some people, and Sonia insists on a little fake tree, but that's it. I find myself avoiding my friends who have children because I refuse to perpetuate the lie and don't want to alienate them.

12/9/2010 10:43:33 AM

Quote :

"Quote : "Just wondering if any still celebrate the event of "Santa"? " define "celebrate the event of Santa" Believe in Santa? Dress up as Santa? Put up Santa-themed decorations? "

I guess the main thing I was wondering was if one doesn't consider himself/herself Christian and yet celebrated Christmas day w/ presents and trees and what not, why or why not do this considering it is derived from a Christian Holiday?

I am just trying to see,from a non-Christian's viewpoint, what Christmas is to them (assuming Santa is celebrated or presents and what not are shared)



[Edited on December 9, 2010 at 11:17 AM. Reason : typo]

12/9/2010 11:15:29 AM

Also, in no way am I trying to start something with any of you. As a devout Christian, my hope is that one day each of you would find Christ, but I am always interested in knowing what others believe as it helps me understand the non believers better. I think for me to believe without understanding why there are so many that don't is important to bettering my faith as a Christian.

The Christmas season is obviously what has drawn my attention to the question I asked. I drive around town, see all the lights and decorations, and I really wonder how many of those folks celebrate Christmas for Jesus, or just for the Santa aspect of it.



[Edited on December 9, 2010 at 11:29 AM. Reason : f]

12/9/2010 11:20:13 AM

Quote :

"I guess the main thing I was wondering was if one doesn't consider himself/herself Christian and yet celebrated Christmas day w/ presents and trees and what not, why or why not do this considering it is derived from a Christian Holiday?"

Why do you celebrate Chistmas, considering it is derived from many pagan holidays?

12/9/2010 11:28:56 AM

christmas, as celebrated today, is hardly a christian holiday. it is all about materialism and uses traditions and symbols that are not christian.

santa? christmas trees? show me how this is christian.

on a related note i had some very fundamentalist friends growing up and they were always jealous because they couldn't celebrate christmas (in the way we all know) because it was paganistic and full of idolatry.

[Edited on December 9, 2010 at 11:31 AM. Reason : .]

12/9/2010 11:30:00 AM

Quote :

"I guess the main thing I was wondering was if one doesn't consider himself/herself Christian and yet celebrated Christmas day w/ presents and trees and what not, why or why not do this considering it is derived from a Christian Holiday?"

A couple of reasons:

1) everything about Christmas is derived from some other holiday and Christmas itself has a spotty history throughout Christianity. Post-Reformation, many Christians condemned Christianity. Go check out the Christmas display in Old Salem, you'll be a bit dissapointed.

2) Solstice related celebrations are nothing new with humanity, chosing to coopt the local traditions, especially those which are programmed by early childhood experiences to elicit happiness is a perfectly rational human expectation.

3) From the perspective of an Atheist who was raised Christian, my viewpoint is that Christmas has a lot of pretty lights, luminaria is under-done these days, I like the idea that people think about something other than theirselves, I don't like the commercialization of Christmas but it is inevitable and I can get behind the idea of celebrating the birth of a dude who said, "love thy neighbor as thyself". I just can't believe that he was the son of a non-existant god and much of the religious dogma that is built around him.

12/9/2010 11:30:43 AM

Quote :

"I guess the main thing I was wondering was if one doesn't consider himself/herself Christian and yet celebrated Christmas day w/ presents and trees and what not, why or why not do this considering it is derived from a Christian Holiday?"

Ok, now we know what you're talking about and it's not Santa.

Did Christians invent gift giving? No. Did they start the tradition of Christmas trees? Sure. Does it matter? Like many celebrations, most people participate because they are traditions. A Christmas tree isn't inherently religious. You may have tacked on religious paraphernalia and connotations, but that doesn't mean you own it.

You may want to look into the origins of Christmas: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas#Pre-Christian_background

12/9/2010 11:31:08 AM

mailto:atheists@christmas.com

12/9/2010 11:31:53 AM

I celebrate for the birth of Christ. I hate what Christmas has become w/ all the glitz and glamor (i.e. inflated Santa's on roofs and all the craziness in the retail world, etc.). Yes I decorate my house, yes I have a tree, but my theme isn't Santa, it's Jesus. My decorations are simple and conservative and are for the joy of my family and neighbors.

12/9/2010 11:35:11 AM

please refer to my original post in this thread it addresses your attitude perfectly.

Quote :

"Definitely Chit Chat worthy. Just look at any number of atheist threads in TSB and you will see that the favorite retort of non-educated christians is "IF YOU NO BELIEVE JESUS WHY U CELEBRATE CHRISTMAS DUUURRRRRR IT JESUS DAY""

Considering that evidence in the bible suggests "jesus" was not born in December. The real question is why do you celebrate a pagan holiday?

[Edited on December 9, 2010 at 11:38 AM. Reason : asdfd]

12/9/2010 11:35:16 AM

Christmas as a Christian holiday is a rather new and novel concept. I choose to celebrate Christmas as it was originally intended, as a day of drunken public debauchery.

12/9/2010 11:38:39 AM

Quote :

"I celebrate for the birth of Christ. I hate what Christmas has become w/ all the glitz and glamor (i.e. inflated Santa's on roofs and all the craziness in the retail world, etc.). Yes I decorate my house, yes I have a tree, but my theme isn't Santa, it's Jesus. My decorations are simple and conservative and are for the joy of my family and neighbors."

There you go buddy. You celebrate for christ and the joy of your friends and family. We agree on the latter.

12/9/2010 11:38:51 AM

Quote :

"Ok, now we know what you're talking about and it's not Santa. Did Christians invent gift giving? No. Did they start the tradition of Christmas trees? Sure. Does it matter? Like many celebrations, most people participate because they are traditions. A Christmas tree isn't inherently religious. You may have tacked on religious paraphernalia and connotations, but that doesn't mean you own it. You may want to look into the origins of Christmas: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas#Pre-Christian_background "

Dude, I'm not getting into this like you are wanting me to. Take your wikipedia and shove it. I simply just wanted to know why or why not you celebrated Christmas, given that the MAIN reason for the season is a Christian holiday.

12/9/2010 11:38:59 AM

Quote :

"I celebrate for the birth of Christ. I hate what Christmas has become w/ all the glitz and glamor (i.e. inflated Santa's on roofs and all the craziness in the retail world, etc.). Yes I decorate my house, yes I have a tree, but my theme isn't Santa, it's Jesus. My decorations are simple and conservative and are for the joy of my family and neighbors."

ok, thats great for you. but seeing that you apparently understand that santa and all of the "glitz and glamor" are not christian i'm really confused about why you felt the need for this thread. it seems like you know the answer to your question.

12/9/2010 11:39:00 AM

Quote :

"I simply just wanted to know why or why not you celebrated Christmas, given that the MAIN reason for the season is a Christian holiday."

I simply don't agree. That is NOT the main reason.

12/9/2010 11:40:36 AM

you've all answered my question loud and clear.

Merry Christmas.



[Edited on December 9, 2010 at 11:42 AM. Reason : .]

12/9/2010 11:41:44 AM

christmas is about presents and family (or chinese food and movies if ur jewish)

12/9/2010 11:41:57 AM

What if Christmas didn't come this year.
And no one paid for Christmas cheer.
Who would cry the biggest tear.
The child or the store

The only thing I really enjoy about Christmas is the opportunity to spend time with family and friends that aren't normally around. The "Christmas season" annoys the piss out of me. It's just another brand of manufactured consumerism. Christmas songs are stupid and obnoxious. Me and parents started doing a 50 dollar spending limit, and I'm an only child, so it has really become more about the day than the gifts or anything. It's much better that way.

Santa is just as likely to exist as your God. When you accept that, you'll become an atheist.

12/9/2010 11:42:11 AM

Quote :

"I simply just wanted to know why or why not you celebrated Christmas, given that the MAIN reason for the season is a Christian holiday."

Since when?

12/9/2010 11:51:47 AM

i'm curious if MrLuva is of the type that boycotts businesses that use "holiday" instead of "Christmas"

12/9/2010 11:54:00 AM

Christmas is a time for me to see my family, exchange presents, and take a week off from work. And I do enjoy all the decorations, Christmas trees, etc. because it reminds me of my childhood.

Do I believe in Jesus? Probably not. I don't know what to believe. My family all does though. So whatever. I still like Christmas.

12/9/2010 11:56:23 AM

Quote :

"Christmas is a time for me to see my family, exchange presents, and take a week day off from work. And I do enjoy all the decorations, Christmas trees, etc. because it reminds me of my childhood."

Christmas is now a conglomeration of traditions. I couldn't care less about the Christian traditions, but I like getting stuff and giving stuff to other people and seeing family and eating cookies.

12/9/2010 12:11:03 PM

Quote :

"you've all answered my question loud and clear. Merry Christmas."

You asked a loaded question and got honest answers. U MAD?

12/9/2010 12:29:55 PM

But his pastor/ priest asked that question in church the other day and it sounded so clever!

12/9/2010 12:39:17 PM

ok serious answer...

I celebrate Christmas simply because its tradition. Christmas is not a Christian Holiday. Jesus was not born on Dec 25th. The Christmas tree, mistletoe, gift giving, and Christmas lights are all rooted in pagan ritual. Hell even the date was chosen because it coincided with the Roman winter festival Saturnalia which also falls on the Winter Solstice. So for me Christmas has nothing to do with Jesus or God so being an atheist has no influence on my choice to celebrate it.

[Edited on December 9, 2010 at 12:43 PM. Reason : .]

12/9/2010 12:42:46 PM

Quote :

"I simply just wanted to know why or why not you celebrated Christmas, given that the MAIN reason for the season is a Christian holiday. "

are you retarded? Christmas was a pagan holiday that the Christians tried to steal, and then corporate America stole it back. Seriously, how can you go wrong with getting drunk with family, exchanging gifts, and then eating a hefty meal?

[Edited on December 9, 2010 at 12:43 PM. Reason : hell, the bible even tells you not to decorate a tree]

12/9/2010 12:43:13 PM

The irony is that I am adamantly opposed to Santa Claus, to telling kids that there is such a person, etc.

I've never understood the relevance of the atheist argument, "It's just a bunch of pagan holidays anyway, Jesus doesn't exist and if he did he wasn't born in December." So the fuck what? The history of it is far less relevant than the practice. And to whatever extent it isn't a purely commercial venture, it is damn sure not a celebration of the solstice or some fucking thing.

So on behalf of the entire Christian religion: Yes, we know that many Christmas traditions were borrowed from pagans. I have a wok in my house, too, but it doesn't mean I'm fucking Chinese. We know that the choice of date for the holiday was based more on a desire to supplant a pagan one than on when Jesus's actual birthday was. We weren't real clear on the exact day but we wanted to celebrate the birth, so we said, "Fuck it, let's just dump it on top of that weird solstice thing the heathens do, maybe that will help convert them." A dick move? Maybe. But an indicator that, at the root of it, Christmas is a Christian holiday (again, to whatever extent it isn't just the engine for American retail).

12/9/2010 12:58:02 PM

Attn: Non-Irish @ St. Patricks Day
Attn: Non-Pueblans @ Cinco de Mayo

12/9/2010 1:08:18 PM

Quote :

"i'm curious if MrLuva is of the type that boycotts businesses that use "holiday" instead of "Christmas""

No I'm not because, like you all said, there are other holidays around Christmas time.

Y'all can continue with your bashing of me all of you want, I don't really care b'c it doesn't ruin my day like you may want it to, I simply just wanted to know what atheists thought about Christmas, and you have all answered that for me...so thank you for that.

If I have offended anyone then I apologize, it wasn't my intention.

12/9/2010 1:09:17 PM

one of Jesus main tenets was to establish pure worship unadulterated by pagan beliefs and rituals. a true Christian would not celebrate Christmas based on this teaching alone. Christians were to remain unspotted from the World!

12/9/2010 1:26:19 PM

i'm not bashing anyone, all i'm saying is that if christmas is a religious holiday then macy's is a place of worship

12/9/2010 1:29:28 PM

Quote :

"The history of it is far less relevant than the practice."

I disagree, sir.

12/9/2010 1:34:34 PM

Quote :

"But an indicator that, at the root of it, Christmas is a Christian holiday (again, to whatever extent it isn't just the engine for American retail)."

since when?

12/9/2010 1:41:51 PM

Quote :

"The history of it is far less relevant than the practice."

Thats cool. I chose to ignore the Christian history of it and practice it however I goddamn well please. As for me, I'll focus on the borrowed European pagan traditions and discard the Jesus blather.


The premise of this entire thread is flawed. If you ask me as an atheist if I practice Christmas then the answer is no. If you ask me if I coopt Christian traditions for my own personal reasons, then the answer is yes. There are plenty of us who go to church and sing carols with our family because our families appreciate it.

12/9/2010 1:45:39 PM

^signed

12/9/2010 2:15:06 PM

Quote :

"There are plenty of us who go to church and sing carols with our family because our families appreciate it."

It feels good to get past this sort of sympathy, actually

12/9/2010 2:18:18 PM

yeah it reminds me of when i stopped bowing my head and closing my eyes during grace

12/9/2010 2:24:49 PM

Wow. You guys have loved ones who would presumably appreciate your taking part in a brief, meaningless little custom that requires no effort on your part, and you tell them to go fuck themselves out of principle?

12/9/2010 2:28:07 PM

Quote :

"So on behalf of the entire Christian religion: Yes, we know that many Christmas traditions were borrowed from pagans. I have a wok in my house, too, but it doesn't mean I'm fucking Chinese. We know that the choice of date for the holiday was based more on a desire to supplant a pagan one than on when Jesus's actual birthday was. We weren't real clear on the exact day but we wanted to celebrate the birth, so we said, "Fuck it, let's just dump it on top of that weird solstice thing the heathens do, maybe that will help convert them." A dick move? Maybe. But an indicator that, at the root of it, Christmas is a Christian holiday (again, to whatever extent it isn't just the engine for American retail)."

So on that sentiment I am borrowing that some weird christian thing that those crazy religious people do and making it a time to feast and give gifts. Just as owning a wok doesn't make you anymore Chinese, celebrating christmas doesn't make you christian.

Christmas is in no way shape or form novel to christians. It existed before them and will most likely continue in some shape or form after them.

[Edited on December 9, 2010 at 2:29 PM. Reason : ^maybe because that same bullshit permeates every part of our government.]

12/9/2010 2:28:11 PM

Quote :

"I have a wok in my house, too, but it doesn't mean I'm fucking Chinese."

end of thread

12/9/2010 2:31:53 PM

Quote :

"maybe because that same bullshit permeates every part of our government"

Yes. Their refusal to angle their heads downward slightly while a family member says some words in their private residence is an excellent way to protest the government.

12/9/2010 2:38:38 PM