... we need to be less imperialist than Sweden.

Stockholm, Sweden Bombings Kill 1, Injure 2 Near Drottninggatan

Quote :

"STOCKHOLM — A car explosion and what appeared to be a suicide attack injured two people, killed the apparent bomber, and caused panic among Christmas shoppers in Stockholm Saturday. ... Ten minutes before the blasts, Swedish news agency TT received an e-mail saying "the time has come to take action." According to the news agency, the e-mail referred to Sweden's silence surrounding artist Lars Vilk's drawing of Muhammad as a dog and its soldiers in Afghanistan. "Now your children, daughters and sisters shall die like our brothers and sisters and children are dying," the news agency quoted the e-mail as saying."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/11/stockholm-bombings-kill-1_n_795437.html (AP article)

Sweden has 500 troops detailed to the NATO-led, UN Security Council sanctioned ISAF in Afghanistan.

http://www.isaf.nato.int/troop-numbers-and-contributions/sweden/index.php

[Edited on December 12, 2010 at 12:46 PM. Reason : ]

12/12/2010 12:37:49 PM

It is incredibly lucky that the bombs didn't explode with the force planned. Drottninggatan is the main pedestrian street through the shopping and tourist district of the city and is always packed with people.

12/12/2010 12:41:42 PM

This thread basically lays your distorted world view and distorted concept of evidence bare

12/12/2010 1:36:57 PM

obvs. they think of Sweden as another pawn in teh evil American march of imperialism

12/12/2010 1:41:49 PM

i think we should all just become muslims. that would solve the problem.

12/12/2010 1:56:33 PM

Assuming our species survives past this period, the OP will be a prime example of where talking apes and humans diverged in terms of cognitive abilities and habits

12/12/2010 1:59:04 PM

^^ Yeah but which sect of Muslim?

[Edited on December 12, 2010 at 2:03 PM. Reason : are sunni and shia sects or denominations or branches or what]

12/12/2010 2:01:33 PM

What specifically is your beef today? Or, did you get tired of being an intellectual and decided to come blow off some steam in TSB today by being a complete and utter shit bag?

[Edited on December 12, 2010 at 2:06 PM. Reason : .]

12/12/2010 2:01:34 PM

The goal of terrorism is to cause people to think like lazarus. lazarus and people like him are the biggest ally al-qaeda has in the US.

12/12/2010 2:20:27 PM

To be fair, Sweden has troops in northern afghanistan and their defense industry supplies the US and many other countries with a lot of weapons and military hardware. They're hardly the neutral/non-aligned country that they would have you believe.

Combine that with the fact that they have taken in boatloads of refugees from war-torn countries over the past few decades only to relegate them to being second class citizens (many of whom come from Muslim countries), I won't be the least bit surprised if the bomber(s) turn out to be swedish citizens/residents.

12/12/2010 2:21:43 PM

Quote :

"i think we should all just become muslims. that would solve the problem."

Unlikely. Islamist terrorists kill far more Muslims than they do non-Muslims.

Quote :

"The goal of terrorism is to cause people to think like lazarus. lazarus and people like him are the biggest ally al-qaeda has in the US."

Do elaborate.

Quote :

"This thread basically lays your distorted world view and distorted concept of evidence bare"

This from the guy who spends an absurd amount of time on the Internet making accusations and peddling conspiracies for which he provides no evidence, and who has even said that complex international conflicts can be best understood with "common sense" alone.

[Edited on December 12, 2010 at 3:06 PM. Reason : ]

12/12/2010 2:43:03 PM

Quote :

"To be fair, Sweden has troops in northern afghanistan and their defense industry supplies the US and many other countries with a lot of weapons and military hardware. They're hardly the neutral/non-aligned country that they would have you believe. Combine that with the fact that they have taken in boatloads of refugees from war-torn countries over the past few decades only to relegate them to being second class citizens (many of whom come from Muslim countries), I won't be the least bit surprised if the bomber(s) turn out to be swedish citizens/residents."

This. Terrorism will probably never be eliminated, but the United States has been one of the many cultivators of it. Muslims have every right to hate our government, and really, Western influence in general. Between U.S. interventionism and European imperialism, we've shit on so many corners of the world that it's hard to fathom.

12/12/2010 3:36:14 PM

This is terrible and sad.

Killing of civilians is abhorrent, period.

12/12/2010 4:42:09 PM

Quote :

"Terrorism will probably never be eliminated, but the United States has been one of the many cultivators of it. Muslims have every right to hate our government..."

It's unfortunate that you equate terrorists with Muslims. It's a distinction worth noting, especially if you want to even begin to understand the topic you seem determined to remark on.

[Edited on December 12, 2010 at 4:52 PM. Reason : ]

12/12/2010 4:52:01 PM

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/8198043/Sweden-suicide-bomber-Taimur-Abdulwahab-al-Abdaly-was-living-in-Britain.html

guy was a British university graduate.

12/12/2010 7:41:00 PM

Quote :

"It's unfortunate that you equate terrorists with Muslims. It's a distinction worth noting, especially if you want to even begin to understand the topic you seem determined to remark on."

I'm not equating the two. I meant exactly what I said - Muslims have a reason to hate the United States. We invade Muslim countries, say "You know, your government isn't really working for us. We're going to overthrow that government, blow up a bunch of your buildings, kill a bunch of your people, and install a government that is friendly to U.S. interests. Cooperate, or we'll call you an insurgent and kill your ass." Our government's arrogance has no bounds.

If anyone is guilty of equating Muslims and terrorists, it's certainly not on my end. Of course they're not the same. Our government has punished entire nations for the actions of a few rogue extremists.

12/12/2010 8:47:17 PM

So you guys like to justify the actions of extremist Muslims due to actions of the U.S. government? It's ok for them to fly our planes into our buildings?

12/12/2010 11:27:37 PM

Quote :

"Now your children, daughters and sisters shall die like our brothers and sisters and children are dying,"

The new "hide your kids, hide your wives, and hide your husbands too, because they're raping everybody out here"

[Edited on December 12, 2010 at 11:49 PM. Reason : .]

12/12/2010 11:49:11 PM

Quote :

"So you guys like to justify the actions of extremist Muslims due to actions of the U.S. government? It's ok for them to fly our planes into our buildings?"

Violence against innocents is never justified. I'm saying that if you want to deal with the problem of terrorism, you won't do it by invading countries and killing any terrorists that happen to be around. Terrorism is, in large part, a result of our foreign policy. I don't know how many times I can say this and it fail to sink in. Interventionism has consequences. Terrorism is one of those consequences.

12/13/2010 12:44:29 AM

I object, but only slightly. Just because the west stopped waging war in the middle east would not by itself bring an end to terrorist violence. While there is a modest chance it would, the far more likely outcome is for the terrorist to merely change targets to killing more fellow Muslims.

That said, we should pull out of the middle east for other better reasons.

12/13/2010 1:55:29 AM

It sure wouldn't stop all violence, but it would stop breeding generation after generation of hatred towards us.

Also, when I saw wdprice3's post, I couldn't do anything but facepalm. Didn't Giuliani making a fool of himself have any impact on the general public? Listing their motivation to do something isn't excusing their actions. It's saying why they were motivated to do something...

12/13/2010 2:49:25 AM

^ Exactly.

BTW, I made some corrections to that Telegraph article:

Quote :

"The bomber had recently advertised on a Muslim dating site for a second wife, saying he was looking for a “lady 25-30 who lives in UK for marriage and widowhood soon after”. "

Quote :

"An Yemeni Islamist website, Shumukh al-Islam, published a photograph of Abdulwahab in dark glasses, saying: “It is our brother, mujahid Taymour Abdel Wahab, who carried out the martyrdom operation in Stockholm that guarantees him a long stay in hell.”"

Quote :

"He asked his wife to kiss the children on his behalf. “Tell them Daddy loves them, but not enough,” he added."

12/13/2010 4:27:41 AM

Ah yes, going for the if we leave them alone, they'll leave us alone! attitude. For some reason, I don't think these barbaric fools care anymore. Their goal is to kill at any cost and has little to do with justified, at any level, retaliation, as most of their soldiers likely have no facts at all and just the propaganda of their leaders. That's the culture of these people - just look at the leaders of middle eastern countries; they've all blatantly lied to their people and the world, even when faced with opposing facts that were obvious to all, in an effort to justify their violence.

12/13/2010 7:29:48 AM

12/13/2010 8:31:20 AM

Quote :

"just look at the leaders of middle eastern countries; they've all blatantly lied to their people and the world, even when faced with opposing facts that were obvious to all, in an effort to justify their violence."

Come on, that's true also for Western leaders who led the unprovoked and barbaric attack on Iraq. Some of the lies came out long ago, and some are coming out now with the leaks. Leaders always lie to their people and the world. Pull up the history of the US for the last 100 years and you will find thousands of lies by the presidents to their own people.

"We do not torture."

12/13/2010 8:37:48 AM

Quote :

"We invade Muslim countries, say "You know, your government isn't really working for us. We're going to overthrow that government, blow up a bunch of your buildings, kill a bunch of your people, and install a government that is friendly to U.S. interests. Cooperate, or we'll call you an insurgent and kill your ass.""

In point of fact, the Taliban and Baath regimes we overthrew were, and still are, far less popular than the US among Muslims in their respective countries. And only a nincompoop would imply that those regimes were somehow "working for" the Muslims they ruled over. You're talking about two regimes whose legacies include mass graves and a brand of fascism rivaled only North Korea.

Quote :

"While there is a modest chance it would, the far more likely outcome is for the terrorist to merely change targets to killing more fellow Muslims. "

The prime targets for Islamist terrorists already are their fellow Muslims, by a huge factor.

12/13/2010 9:27:26 AM