http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/02/100224132655.htm

Quote :

"Young adults who identify themselves as "not at all religious" have an average IQ of 103 during adolescence, while those who identify themselves as "very religious" have an average IQ of 97 during adolescence."

Quote :

"Data from the National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health (Add Health) support Kanazawa's hypothesis. Young adults who subjectively identify themselves as "very liberal" have an average IQ of 106 during adolescence while those who identify themselves as "very conservative" have an average IQ of 95 during adolescence."

Quote :

"More intelligent people are statistically significantly more likely to exhibit social values and religious and political preferences that are novel to the human species in evolutionary history. Specifically, liberalism and atheism, and for men (but not women), preference for sexual exclusivity correlate with higher intelligence, a new study finds."

I guess if you believe in this you have to be less intelligent? Bible says all of this

Earth is flat
The Sun orbits the Earth
A talking snake
Talking trees
A talking dragon
Unicorns are real
Cherubims are real
Earth is a mere 6,000 years old
Earth was created in a mere 6 days
Man was created directly from clay
Woman was created directly from man's rib
A man stuck all the animal species of Earth (by two) on an ark
Bats are birds
Whales are fish

[Edited on February 2, 2011 at 9:14 PM. Reason : oh ]

2/2/2011 9:04:44 PM

Godless Liberals

2/2/2011 9:21:31 PM

Quote :

"more likely to exhibit social values "

Socialism!

also higher IQ != more intelligent

Quote :

"More intelligent people are statistically significantly more likely to exhibit social values and religious and political preferences that are novel to the human species in evolutionary history."

Novel Indeed...
H.H. Goddard(haha God), one of the men who pushed the idea that intelligence tests were accuracte and scientific - as well as Carl Brighan (developer of the SAT) - both advocated eugenics.

Eugenics is the idea that the Nazis took to the extreme with the idea that you could make a superior human race.

2/2/2011 9:53:48 PM

Obviously black people and hispanics are more likely to be religious.


Boo-yah, I just countered your controversial argument with an even more controversial one.

2/2/2011 10:36:58 PM

I've heard the Bible also says people won't stand for truth and instead will have people come and tell them what they want to hear.

2/2/2011 11:33:00 PM

i love it when people start with a perfectly valid point, then make themselves look retarded by doing a terrible job pointing out the problems with the bible.

2/3/2011 12:00:11 AM

where does the Bible say the Earth is a mere 6,000 years old?

2/3/2011 12:54:31 AM

and criticizing a translated document for using fish instead of whale is seriously retarded

2/3/2011 7:50:02 AM

^ except large chunks of Xtians insist it was actually a giant fish, and not a whale (not like either makes any sense…).

2/3/2011 8:01:42 AM

The Bible isn't bad because it says a lot of false things about natural events (which is obvious), but because it says a lot of false things about morality and human nature

2/3/2011 8:54:12 AM

Are they (the things it says about morality and human nature) false, or just bad? It seems to me that the Bible presents a rather accurate portrayal of both, at least for the time in which it was written.

2/3/2011 8:58:42 AM

Quote :

"where does the Bible say the Earth is a mere 6,000 years old?"

It doesn't outright say it, but it goes through the whole linage from Adam to Jesus, so historians have back dated it to about 6,000 years. I forget where in the bible it does it, but it is like 5 chapters of "A begat B, B begat C, C begat D....."

2/3/2011 8:59:53 AM

Quote :

"Are they (the things it says about morality and human nature) false, or just bad? It seems to me that the Bible presents a rather accurate portrayal of both, at least for the time in which it was written."

I guess I mean more the New Testament where people are basically instructed that without some magical external force, they are incomplete, broken, sinners by nature. This idea hasn't really netted us much.

Placing all of your focus and moral weight beyond this world can't be accomplished without a devaluation of here and now (i.e. all that exists), so you can't help but wonder if doing this is also a bad move. There are probably other ways to scratch the religious itch than these

2/3/2011 9:09:05 AM

LOL, because the OT is a bastion of women's rights and compassion.

Don't forget, if you marry a woman and she turns out not to be a virgin, lay her ass at your doorstep to be stoned by the village. Deuteronomy 22:20. http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/dt/22.html#13

Lazarus is right that it's "accurate" in the sense that people in the early centuries of human civilization were monsters.

2/3/2011 9:13:38 AM

Quote :

"LOL, because the OT is a bastion of women's rights and compassion."

What I said isn't really a defense of the Hebrew Bible. I would argue its view of human nature was quite accurate for its time compared to the NT which introduces a bunch of weird new notions (some of which are neat and cool), but which trade on the notion of original sin and salvation divorced from action

NT is more concerned with setting up a new theory of salvation and personhood, whereas the HB seems more descriptive of people at the time (as disco_stu puts it, 'monsters').

[Edited on February 3, 2011 at 9:19 AM. Reason : .]

2/3/2011 9:18:58 AM

I could conjure a host of misogynistic and violent instructions from the NT as well, but I'll refrain. Original sin and vicarious redemption are far more egregious.

2/3/2011 9:29:21 AM

People are still monsters.

2/3/2011 9:56:55 AM

Did you guys know that Cherubims are real?

2/3/2011 10:11:55 AM

Not compared to Biblical or even Medieval times, c'mon now.

2/3/2011 10:12:29 AM

Quote :

"It doesn't outright say it, but it goes through the whole linage from Adam to Jesus, so historians have back dated it to about 6,000 years. I forget where in the bible it does it, but it is like 5 chapters of "A begat B, B begat C, C begat D.....""

So it sounds like your problem is with the historians then. There are many Christians who don't believe the Earth was created 6,000 years ago. Personally, I believe the Earth appears to be much much older than that. But I also believe that if God exists, it is *possible* he created the Earth in a mature state, as though it were already millions of years old. There are many reasons why it would make sense to do this. I don't personally claim to know one way or the other, but I'm not arrogant enough to say it's not possible.

2/3/2011 10:52:40 AM

i guess it would also be possible for an all powerful god to have created the entire universe (including our memories of it) yesterday. Of course we cant ever know for sure if that happened because its a fucking stupid question. the question of whether a god exists or not is unanswerable and any time spent on debating it is a waste of time.

The best we can do is try to make the most accurate, predictive models of what we can observe.

2/3/2011 11:00:42 AM

Quote :

"Godless Liberals"

2/3/2011 11:06:19 AM

It is possible that if I don't show up to work for the next two weeks, without giving my company any notice, that I will not only not get fired, but I will in fact be rewarded with a huge bonus.

So in the event that they do fire me, I will be sure to explain that I couldn't have been arrogant enough to assume that that was the course they would take.

They will applaud me for being very open minded and neutral and mature and everything will work out.

2/3/2011 11:07:28 AM

i'm really curious where 10^9 got that list, because its pretty inaccurate

2/3/2011 11:10:35 AM

Quote :

"Earth is flat"

Revelation 7:1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. (and many other passages)

Quote :

"The Sun orbits the Earth"

Genesis 1

Quote :

"A talking snake"

Genesis 3

Quote :

"Talking trees"

Exodus 3

Quote :

"A talking dragon"

Revelation 12, 13, 16, 20

Quote :

"Unicorns are real"

Job 38, but also Psalm 29:6
29:6 He maketh them also to skip like a calf; Lebanon and Sirion like a young unicorn.
Probably a mistranslation.

Quote :

"Cherubims are real"

Not sure I have to reference every angel in the Bible.

Quote :

"Earth is a mere 6,000 years old"

As already seen in this thread it's pretty easy to say an omnipotent being could stretch time or whatever, but the "history" of genesis is absolutely refuted by scientific evidence nonetheless

Quote :

"Earth was created in a mere 6 days Man was created directly from clay Woman was created directly from man's rib"

It's right there in Genesis. Cue apologetics about days not meaning days.

Quote :

"A man stuck all the animal species of Earth (by two) on an ark"

Genesis 6

Quote :

"Bats are birds"

Leviticus 11:13, 19 And these are they which ye shall have in abomination among the fowls...And the stork, the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat.

Quote :

"Whales are fish"

This is a stretch. the OT called it a fish and the NT called it a whale.

As an aside, I'm not sure how anyone can take the Bible seriously with a book like Revelation in it.
http://www.bricktestament.com/revelation/index.html



[Edited on February 3, 2011 at 11:44 AM. Reason : .]

2/3/2011 11:38:22 AM

Because obviously if you believe in God then you have to believe in the literal translation of everything in the bible as well

2/3/2011 12:02:16 PM

There are Christians out there way more intelligent than anyone here, I would imagine. With a little social pressure and a healthy dose of compartmentalization, you can "believe" anything. The trick is explaining away the inconsistencies to satisfy your own cognitive dissonance. When "God" is capable of anything, that's a pretty easy thing to do, especially when you have a sneaking suspicion that disbelief leads to Hell or alienation from friends and family.

2/3/2011 12:08:31 PM

Those are definitely things that appear in bible passages.

Though, for a book written thousands of years ago, it's magical content is merely average.

2/3/2011 12:09:28 PM

Quote :

"Because obviously if you believe in God then you have to believe in the literal translation of everything in the bible as well "

Are you saying this in context of the entire book of Revelation? Everything in that book is figurative?

2/3/2011 12:15:05 PM

The people who believe a literal interpretation of Revelation are a small fraction of people who believe in god.

And deciding that the earth is flat because scripture says four corners is retaaaaarded. There are so many better things to have a problem with concerning the earth as described in the creation story that going all the way to revelation doesn't even make sense. And again that's just a fraction of people who believe in God who believe in a literal interpretation of that (probably larger than Revelation though).

And a further logical fallacy is describing all people who believe in God as people who follow or "believe in" the bible.

But my first post really said it all.

Well maybe not, because i didn't make fun of you for assuming a causal relationship that isn't there. The study is basically saying that smarter people are more likely to have preferences towards new things, and you seem to be using it towards another point.

There are a lot of easy things to criticize christianity for, so it's always surprising when you all do such a terrible job of it.

2/3/2011 12:16:49 PM

Quote :

"The people who believe a literal interpretation of Revelation are a small fraction of people who believe in god."

Out of curiosity, how do you interpret the Book of Revelation?

Quote :

"And deciding that the earth is flat because scripture says four corners is retaaaaarded. There are so many better things to have a problem with concerning the earth as described in the creation story that going all the way to revelation doesn't even make sense. And again that's just a fraction of people who believe in God who believe in a literal interpretation of that (probably larger than Revelation though)."

C'mon guy. Flat Earth theology was rampant up until about the time we figured out that the world was spherical and even then the Bible was used to fight it. I didn't reference every passage used by the nuts but if you'd like I will.

Quote :

"And a further logical fallacy is describing all people who believe in God as people who follow or "believe in" the bible. "

But you must at some point "believe" in something in that book as literally true otherwise where are you getting the idea of God from in the first place? No one in this thread said "Every Christian believes every word in the Bible". My posts in this thread amount to: "Look at the crazy shit in the Bible." You're the one getting all butthurt because your book has goofy shit in it. I never made any comment on what part you "believe in" or not. You said "this list is inaccurate" and I just cited every one of the claims. (note I didn't agree with them all)

Quote :

"There are a lot of easy things to criticize christianity for, so it's always surprising when you all do such a terrible job of it."

Then why are you so offended? You're a smart person right? Are you a Christian? If Revelation is figurative, then what else is? Are the miracles of Jesus and the resurrection figurative?

2/3/2011 12:23:24 PM

I'm not offended, and I wouldn't call myself a Christian. Just pointing out a stupid argument

and i think the most relevant part of my post was the part you didn't quote:

Quote :

"Well maybe not, because i didn't make fun of you for assuming a causal relationship that isn't there. The study is basically saying that smarter people are more likely to have preferences towards new things, and you seem to be using it towards another point."

[Edited on February 3, 2011 at 12:37 PM. Reason : .]

2/3/2011 12:30:08 PM

My mistake then, but I'm not sure an argument was made on my part anyway.

2/3/2011 12:31:57 PM

Certain parts of the bible are more true (to Christians) than others.

The NT is composed of many accounts. Its more important to pay attention to the common themes than any single detail that comes from just one apostle.

2/3/2011 12:32:48 PM

At least the fundamentalists are consistent.

2/3/2011 12:37:31 PM

reminds me of this

2/3/2011 1:41:17 PM

reminds me of this

2/3/2011 1:41:46 PM

Quote :

"But I also believe that if God exists, it is *possible* he created the Earth in a mature state, as though it were already millions of years old. There are many reasons why it would make sense to do this."

It's actually not possible, if you are a Christian, to believe that this is how the Earth was created, because that's not what the Bible says in any facet of it, relating to God. If God made the Earth in a mature state, that would mean the existence of impact craters on the Earth, moon, and all observable bodies are meant to deceive us, which the Bible implies God wouldn't do.

Your choices are to take it all literally (which is dumb) or take it figuratively/contextually (which is meaningless in most situations).

It's issues like this why some larger denominations stick with YEC, because it's a slippery slope if they don't.

The fact of the matter is that Christianity is meaningless if you don't believe the nutty YEC stuff. Without this stuff, it's just "spirituality" in the same way the casual muslim, jew, hindu, wiccan, or whatever practices their religion (theyre all the same once you reject the literal interpretation).

Sure, you may feel prayer gives you peace or guidance or whatever, but this is hardly unique to Christianity, or even religion.

2/3/2011 2:21:41 PM

More retarded arguments that have nothing to do with the story

2/3/2011 2:28:49 PM

Insightful response to moron. I'm not sure Christians need your help, bro.

2/3/2011 2:31:33 PM

^^ what story?

2/3/2011 2:34:19 PM

The article that the thread is about

2/3/2011 2:38:36 PM

Concerning the OP, the first quote is comparing deeply religious to not religious at all. I think it's fair to say that the "very religious" are more likely fundamentalists or YECs, which is probably why we started discussing that.

2/3/2011 2:43:59 PM

^^ oh, i'm sorry that threads don't follow a rigid path...

2/3/2011 2:52:56 PM

The thread title mentions a causal relationship that doesn't exist. The closest thing to it is opposite of the title.

2/3/2011 2:55:28 PM

Quote :

"The closest thing to it is opposite of the title."

You want to demonstrate this?

2/3/2011 2:55:56 PM

Read the article, it is closer to saying if you are smarter, you don't believe in god than saying if you don't believe in god you are smarter.

But it says neither, it says smart people have a preference towards new ideas.

2/3/2011 3:05:38 PM

Yes, the thread title is dumb.

As is your insistence that it has anything to do with the topic being discussed currently.

2/3/2011 3:12:59 PM

Oh, I got you. I didn't know you meant the converse of the title.

Thread titles aren't usually well thought out.

2/3/2011 3:14:35 PM

i think the thread title is saying that if you cease believing in god, you will become smarter.

2/3/2011 4:38:58 PM