Corrupt Iraqi government is resorting to bribes, threats and live ammunition to stifle dissent. More protests scheduled for this friday. At least 29 have been killed by government forces in peaceful protests so far.

I call on America to invade this tyrannical nation and liberate its helpless people. Who's with me?!

3/1/2011 6:57:10 PM

Who cares about Arabs being killed? (and that even by their own people)

Question is, are they threatening Israel?
Are they threatening to cut off the oil supply?
Are they threatening any of the America's puppet monarchs/dictators in the region?

If yes to any one of them, I am all for a war

3/1/2011 7:24:13 PM

^ you act like it's some sort of revelation that American foreign policy is driven by American interests, like pretty much any other country, and that any humanitarian impact is a secondary nice-to-have and/or means of selling the deal to the ignorant masses who aren't going to wrap their pitiful little brains around geopolitics, etc, and need a feel-good theme to latch on to.

I mean, I think that in terms of intentions, America is generally one of the good guys, but we're not the superpowe because we spend all of our time helping little-old-lady-countries cross the street. Above all else, we look out for #1. That we are socially conscious enough to exercise restraint and generally avoid knowingly running the little old ladies over on our way to the prize puts us morally ahead of most other countries.

[Edited on March 1, 2011 at 7:56 PM. Reason : ]

3/1/2011 7:54:32 PM

I don't think he acted like it was a revelation. Just stated some facts in a silly thread.

Plus, "that's old news--everybody already knows we're selfish, and everybody else is selfish, too" isn't much of a retort.

3/1/2011 8:10:15 PM

^^ what he said

3/1/2011 8:25:34 PM

Quote :

"you act like it's some sort of revelation that American foreign policy is driven by American interests, like pretty much any other country, and that any humanitarian impact is a secondary nice-to-have and/or means of selling the deal to the ignorant masses who aren't going to wrap their pitiful little brains around geopolitics, etc, and need a feel-good theme to latch on to."

I'd say you're part of the "ignorant masses," if anything. You've been duped into believing that these wars are for your own good. You think it's your team winning. It's not. You're being fucked over, just like all of us, because our government has spent all this money on pure destruction that are not actually improving our lives. You get to help pay for this shit. You haven't paid for it yet, because it was all purchased on credit, but you will.

Conservatives used to at least pretend that Iraq wasn't about oil. Now, we find out that yes, we did kill a bunch of people and unilaterally invade/occupy a country for economic reasons. Disgraceful. I don't think it's what the founders would have wanted at all.

3/1/2011 8:45:48 PM

That may be true, but we obviously have to go back and bring democracy to these poor people. It's our burden. Obama is cutting and running. We have to invade Iraq a third time. It's the American thing to do!

3/1/2011 8:52:56 PM

you know, the Trojan War probably wasn't fought over Helen, but probably over access to trade routes. but maybe not.

Mark Antony probably didn't fall in love with Cleopatra, but probably was sent to Egypt to secure the steady supply of grains to the Aventine in order to feed the machine. but maybe not.

the crusades were probably fought over access to the silk road, but maybe not.

this is nothing new, but i'm not taking sides with the rape first ask questions later phenoytpe either. i really do think that if we spent half as much on researching and developing "energies from heaven", as we do meddling in geographies rich in "energies from hell", we'd be a hell of a lot better off. i'm probably just pointing out the obvious, but maybe not.

3/1/2011 9:11:04 PM

Quote :

"you act like it's some sort of revelation that American foreign policy is driven by American interests, like pretty much any other country, and that any humanitarian impact is a secondary nice-to-have and/or means of selling the deal to the ignorant masses who aren't going to wrap their pitiful little brains around geopolitics, etc, and need a feel-good theme to latch on to."

Quote :

"I mean, I think that in terms of intentions, America is generally one of the good guys"

Haha you have been fooled into potentially throwing your life away

But maybe you can cash the fuck out. Wouldn't that be great if you could get away with the injustice you're actively pursuing and supporting and live a long, peaceful life?

[Edited on March 1, 2011 at 10:43 PM. Reason : .]

3/1/2011 10:42:10 PM

Quote :

"I'd say you're part of the "ignorant masses," if anything. "

Bitch, please.

Quote :

"You've been duped into believing that these wars are for your own good."

Nowhere in what I wrote was there any intention of commenting on or implying any support for, or for that matter, consternation of, OIF or any other specific U.S. policy or action.

Quote :

"Conservatives used to at least pretend that Iraq wasn't about oil. Now, we find out that yes, we did kill a bunch of people and unilaterally invade/occupy a country for economic reasons. Disgraceful. I don't think it's what the founders would have wanted at all."

1. I wouldn't call myself conservative, at least in the sense that I think you're using the term.

2. I think that oil had something to do with it, but I think there was a lot more to OIF than oil. One could even make the argument that oil was a minor player (not sure if I'd personally go that far, but the argument isn't a stretch. I might argue that oil was indirectly a major player, in that we would care significantly less about the whole region if they didn't have oil, but possibly not directly a major factor).

3. Almost every war in history has been fought for economic reasons.

4. You have got to be fucking kidding me. Our founders founded the nation from the very outset by killing a bunch of people for economic reasons. As soon as we finished killing a bunch of British, we jumped right into killing a bunch of Indians, Mexicans, African pirates, more British, Frenchmen, Spaniards, and a small assortment of pretty much everyone else around the globe. Then we went to war with each other...

...ALL for economic reasons.

Quote :

"Haha you have been fooled into potentially throwing your life away"

I haven't been fooled into shit. I think I have a pretty good grasp of American foreign policy. Even if I didn't, I have no qualms about going and doing my job with great gusto, regardless of what reasons a President commits troops to war. Whether or not the big picture, strategic stuff has always or has ever been justifiable, I think that I can say with confidence that I've saved the lives of some good Americans, Iraqis, Afghans, and probably Brits, Italians, Koreans, etc...and helped take the lives of some real fuckheads who would have otherwise harmed or killed innocents.

I didn't join the Marine Corps out of some overwhelming sense of patriotism. I joined the Marine Corps to make the world a better place by killing people who are fucking everything up.

[Edited on March 1, 2011 at 10:54 PM. Reason : ]

3/1/2011 10:44:19 PM

Quote :

"I didn't join the Marine Corps out of some overwhelming sense of patriotism. I joined the Marine Corps to make the world a better place by killing people who are fucking everything up. "

You should start by crashing your plane into the sand

Seriously either you're ignorant as fuck or an empire-builder
Either way get a fuckin' clue

[Edited on March 2, 2011 at 1:00 AM. Reason : .]

3/2/2011 12:58:41 AM

Go on...

I'd like to hear your explanation for that.

[Edited on March 2, 2011 at 1:02 AM. Reason : for all of those statements, actually]

3/2/2011 1:01:27 AM

It doesn't matter. We're different types and this honestly boils down to a matter of values. Those rarely change.

I'm really not expecting much out of you here given everything you've said so far. You have your mindset and you know damn well it's not going to permit certain revisions at this point.

3/2/2011 1:35:14 AM

How in the hell does Israel help us? Look out for #1 my ass!

3/2/2011 2:38:09 AM

Regarding oil and Iraq...we get less oil from there than we do.....VENEZUELA. Just think about that shit for a moment. I was on the whole "this is a war for oil bandwagon" a long time ago. But the facts just don't bear the reality. China got the first rights to set up new oil companies there. If we went to Iraq for oil, then the strategy simply hasn't played itself out yet...or, we just bungled the hell out of it.

You're really underestimating how delusional Bush/Cheney/Rummy were regarding the reasons for going to Iraq. Leaders don't have to have proper or even connected with reality reasons for doing what they do.

3/2/2011 6:54:06 AM

^^^ OK, then, start with explaining how I'm an "empire builder."

^^ First of all, I think it should be pretty clear that Israel helps us (just as it should be clear that they are also a liability) . Second, when the fuck did Israel come into this? Third, with another pro-Western government set up in Iraq, we could afford to distance ourselves from Israel at times when they're being a liability (I'm not saying that we would, or that this is specifically why we went to war in Iraq, or whatever else. I'm just giving an example of how it could be construed as looking out for #1, although you want to argue the opposite, I'm guessing--that we invaded Iraq for the benefit of Israel, which is completely absurd.)

^ yep. I think that there are a number of reasons for OIF, with oil maybe being on the list, but I think that it was (a) potentially grave security threat erroneously perceived by the Bush Administration, and (b) geopolitical power play. What we did in Iraq was to send a shot across the bow of Iran, Libya, North Korea, etc (it actually worked really well--for a while--in Libya). Iraq was the logical choice for making a move like this (whether or not you believe making such a move was very logical). Their military was already in relative shambles, Saddam Hussein was a fuckhead and nobody would mind seeing him gone, and we legal authority to do it in terms of them violating all variety of cease fire agreements, etc.


Again, and this should be obvious from the way the above was written (but I know a few of you need it explicitly stated), I'm not trying to argue for what we did there. I'm just trying to present what I think happened, looking at things objectively.

3/2/2011 7:31:24 AM

LOL@ Expecting McDanger to explain himself to us plebeians.

3/2/2011 8:48:48 AM

Yes let me summarize an entire body of reading you should be familiar with, on demand

3/2/2011 9:36:11 AM

Quote :

"you act like it's some sort of revelation that American foreign policy is driven by American interests, like pretty much any other country, and that any humanitarian impact is a secondary nice-to-have and/or means of selling the deal to the ignorant masses who aren't going to wrap their pitiful little brains around geopolitics, etc, and need a feel-good theme to latch on to."

Kudos on being the only person in this thread to actually form an argument. Didn't you know that all you have to do is cop a sarcastic tone of voice and say "United States" to win the riotous applause of half educated progressives? Hell, you could even do something like condemn the US for intervening on humanitarian grounds and in the next breath chastise it for not doing the same, and nobody will will fucking notice! You'll be taken for an right old Einstein, or at least a Jon Stewart!

Seriously, though, you have it exactly opposite. The conventional wisdom - as was on full display during the run-up to the Iraq war - is that arguments about national security and economics are the best bet when trying to sell a war. A war sold on humanitarian grounds tends to draw insular groaning from the right and, as evidenced by this thread, petulant cynicism from the left.

[Edited on March 2, 2011 at 9:46 AM. Reason : ]

3/2/2011 9:41:09 AM

American oil, american interests, american justifications.

Won't someone please think of the poor Iraqi children(and their disenfranchised fathers who are being slain in the streets to stifle opposition to rampant corruption).

Iraq needs our help! We must invade and overthrow!

3/2/2011 10:05:24 AM

^^ Wow is that elaborate trolling or you do honestly endorse the off-base, stupid shit you just wrote?

3/2/2011 10:13:36 AM

Quote :

"A war sold on humanitarian grounds tends to draw insular groaning from the right and, as evidenced by this thread, petulant cynicism from the left."

As it should, b/c we shouldn't be going to war for these reasons.

3/2/2011 10:18:07 AM

Nonsense. Saving lives is the best reason to kill people.

3/2/2011 10:45:29 AM

Quote :

"Saving lives is the best reason to kill people."

this but unironically.

3/2/2011 11:45:06 AM

Quote :

"Wow is that elaborate trolling or you do honestly endorse the off-base, stupid shit you just wrote?"

I meant every word. If you would like to refute anything I said, go for it. But you won't, of course. You never do. I don't think I've ever seen you offer even the beginnings of an argument about Iraq or Afghanistan.

So, from now on, I'm just going to respond to you in a manner you're familiar with: Are you serious? You did not seriously just post that. Oh my gawd. Really? Like, are you uneducated?

Quote :

"As it should, b/c we shouldn't be going to war for these reasons."

That's one opinion. Or at least a glimpse of one. I'm not sure how to respond other than to say I disagree. I'd be happy to elaborate, though.

Quote :

"Won't someone please think of the poor Iraqi children(and their disenfranchised fathers who are being slain in the streets to stifle opposition to rampant corruption). Iraq needs our help! We must invade and overthrow! Nonsense. Saving lives is the best reason to kill people."

Shit like this takes sarcasm to new heights. It's so fucking fatuous that I can't even discern what point you're trying to make, though I suspect the truth is you don't have one to begin with. After all, that is the point of trolls.

[Edited on March 2, 2011 at 11:50 AM. Reason : ]

3/2/2011 11:49:15 AM

Quote :

"Saving lives is the best reason to kill people."

No trolling there. I believe every word of that statement. If you consider it trolling, perhaps you are the one experiencing cognitive dissonance.

3/2/2011 11:54:33 AM

I'm not convinced you know what that means.

3/2/2011 11:58:37 AM

I'm never convinced I know anything.

Except this.

Iraq War III: The Third Time's the Charahm

[Edited on March 2, 2011 at 12:07 PM. Reason : .]

3/2/2011 12:06:12 PM

Quote :

"I didn't join the Marine Corps out of some overwhelming sense of patriotism. I joined the Marine Corps to make the world a better place by killing people who are fucking everything up. "

I believe you. I don't even deny that you killed some bad people, or that the U.S. military has killed some bad people. Certainly, that's true. There's some problems, though. For one, if you're in the military, you're working for one of the bad guys. Yes, the U.S. government is full of greedy, corrupt assholes, like every other government, and individuals often go to war to benefit themselves. You don't strike me as someone that simply puts their faith in the government to do and say the right thing.

The other problem, the main problem, is that we're waging wars on the dime of people that don't necessarily want their money spent that way. In fact, we're borrowing money that has to be paid back, with interest in order to fight these wars and maintain the empire. The economic distress that this will cause is much worse than the distress that would have been caused by not going to war. I wouldn't have a problem if you decided to join a league of mercenaries and kill dudes that are obviously violating human rights. That's at least somewhat justifiable, and not paid for by us through a devalued currency.

3/2/2011 12:16:22 PM

Quote :

"I joined the Marine Corps to make the world a better place by killing people who are fucking everything up."

Duke,

No offense and I agree that it is not a surprise that US is waging wars for its own economic interests. However, if join the Marines your purpose is to protect those US interests, which (from the first sentence) have nothing to do with making a world a better place.

To say wars are waged for economic interests and joining military to make the world a better place is mutually exclusive.

3/2/2011 12:45:12 PM

^

3/2/2011 12:48:24 PM

Quote :

"Regarding oil and Iraq...we get less oil from there than we do.....VENEZUELA. Just think about that shit for a moment. I was on the whole "this is a war for oil bandwagon" a long time ago. But the facts just don't bear the reality. China got the first rights to set up new oil companies there. If we went to Iraq for oil, then the strategy simply hasn't played itself out yet...or, we just bungled the hell out of it. You're really underestimating how delusional Bush/Cheney/Rummy were regarding the reasons for going to Iraq. Leaders don't have to have proper or even connected with reality reasons for doing what they do. "

I think you need to look past the current situation in Iraq to the future. Iraq is in the top three of world oil reserves and could possibly even move into the top spot after some more exploration, especially with all the rumors about Saudia Arabia lieing about what their reserves are. And it's that easy to obtain oil, none of this tar sands BS. And while american companies didn't get all of the contracts they still got plenty.

3/2/2011 12:55:45 PM

regarding war on iraq...this summarizes it

http://www.snotr.com/video/93/Black_Bush

3/2/2011 1:00:30 PM

Quote :

" I meant every word. If you would like to refute anything I said, go for it. But you won't, of course. You never do. I don't think I've ever seen you offer even the beginnings of an argument about Iraq or Afghanistan. So, from now on, I'm just going to respond to you in a manner you're familiar with: Are you serious? You did not seriously just post that. Oh my gawd. Really? Like, are you uneducated?"

I'm just wondering how many books and essays the TWW community wants me to write so that it can ignore

It makes little sense pounding my head against a brick wall. You don't understand what arguments are for. It's not even clear you understand what being in a world is.

Not wasting my time like that, man.

3/2/2011 1:25:45 PM

^
So basically your only purpose here is not to formulate any arguments, but to tell other people that they are stupid for not agreeing with you? Just want to get it straight.

3/2/2011 1:32:38 PM

Quote :

". Second, when the fuck did Israel come into this?"

Sorry. My post was in reference to your previous post

Quote :

"^ you act like it's some sort of revelation that American foreign policy is driven by American interests, like pretty much any other country, and that any humanitarian impact is a secondary nice-to-have and/or means of selling the deal to the ignorant masses who aren't going to wrap their pitiful little brains around geopolitics, etc, and need a feel-good theme to latch on to. I mean, I think that in terms of intentions, America is generally one of the good guys, but we're not the superpowe because we spend all of our time helping little-old-lady-countries cross the street. Above all else, we look out for #1. That we are socially conscious enough to exercise restraint and generally avoid knowingly running the little old ladies over on our way to the prize puts us morally ahead of most other countries."

how does has Israel benefited America in the last 60 years?

Quote :

" although you want to argue the opposite, I'm guessing--that we invaded Iraq for the benefit of Israel, which is completely absurd.) "

It was mostly oil access but you could also argue that we wanted the ability to fight Syria, Iran and Jordan from two fronts if necessary and eliminate a possible future ally against us (regime that would take over from a natural toppling of Hussein).

Either way, installing a regime into Iran would also benefit us in terms of oil access so it works both ways.

What I'm saying is

Puppet governments in the middle east help Israel so Israel wants us to install them.

Puppet governments in the middle east oil nations help us at the same time.

Is it a coincidence? or do we also help Israel with countries that don't have oil?

Are we simply using Israel as a proxy to keep the Arab world distracted against a nemesis while their oil is extracted?

Theres a lot of ways this could be argued.

3/2/2011 1:47:33 PM

Quote :

" So basically your only purpose here is not to formulate any arguments, but to tell other people that they are stupid for not agreeing with you? Just want to get it straight."

I'm here to type in comments to a message board, which is what the purpose of a message board is. Why don't you just worry about yourself, and if you don't like my posts, skip past them?

3/2/2011 1:48:41 PM

Sweet, so that means I can respond to your bullshit with non sequitur. After all this is just a message board, and this is in fact a message.

3/2/2011 2:33:06 PM

Quote :

"Not wasting my time like that, man."

If you knew half as much as you pretend to know, it would take you no more time to compose a simple rebuttal than it did to type all that. And if you were to add up all the time you spend telling us how you don't have time to present anything like an argument, yeah, you almost certainly could churn out an essay or two.

Perhaps your first effort could explain what you meant when you said I don't know what it means to be in a world.

Ah, there I go again, responding to you in adult language. Let me translate:

Like, whatever man. I don't have time to respond to your drivel, man. You probably don't even know what it's like to be in a world. Are you even educated?

[Edited on March 2, 2011 at 2:34 PM. Reason : ]

3/2/2011 2:33:56 PM

You already do, what's the difference? I love how I'm held to this standard where every time I post I need to supply an essay you chucklefucks aren't even going to read, yet you can shoot from the hip any time you wish (since you're just pulling bullshit out of thin air). No thanks. Duke asked me to explain and I refused because I honestly don't think anything I say is going to make a difference or even resonate with him, seeing as how he's a fucking monster apparently

Quote :

"Perhaps your first effort could explain what you meant when you said I don't know what it means to be in a world."

You're dizzy headed and confused. I doubt you have really internalized anything deep or interesting about being alive

[Edited on March 2, 2011 at 2:36 PM. Reason : .]

3/2/2011 2:35:03 PM

The best debate tactic: "oh yeah, well write a book already" *sits back shooting from the hip while McDanger takes an hour of his time to lay out an argument for my ignorant ass*.

I'm not summarizing entire fields for you. You're clearly not curious or competent enough to "do it on your own" so I'll apply your own pigheaded philosophy and tell you to fuck off, because I've got mine.

3/2/2011 2:37:54 PM

Quote :

"It's not even clear you understand what being in a world is."

Is it your contention that there are enough books on this planet to figure out what the fuck you even meant by this? I'm pretty sure that's all lazarus wanted to know.

[Edited on March 2, 2011 at 2:50 PM. Reason : .]

3/2/2011 2:49:19 PM

You see, I actually work in the field we're discussing. It also happens to be what I studied in school. People pay me for my analysis of the subject. So no, I don't need you to explain the field to me, or write me a book, or even a goddamn essay. Although, if you were even half as serious about the subject as you try to act like you are, one would wonder why you don't bother at least taking a stab at any of the above.

But really, just a simple counterpoint would do - something everyone else manages to do in ten sentences or less. Stop being a pussy. And quit with the fucking dime store psychology. It's not impressing anyone.

Or do you like the bold better?

3/2/2011 2:49:58 PM

Sorry to hear you're so bad at what you do, but it's cool you've duped people into paying you for it.

Like I said this disagreement boils down to values and I'm not convincing ethically bankrupt people of shit

Quote :

"But really, just a simple counterpoint would do - something everyone else manages to do in ten sentences or less. Stop being a pussy. And quit with the fucking dime store psychology. It's not impressing anyone."

I could impress you just by agreeing with your pro-empire horseshit

[Edited on March 2, 2011 at 2:55 PM. Reason : .]

3/2/2011 2:55:13 PM

It's not clear at all what your ethics are.

I don't support anything like imperialism. You must have me confused with someone else.

[Edited on March 2, 2011 at 3:03 PM. Reason : ]

3/2/2011 3:02:24 PM

Appeals to one's own authority are really only appropriate when you need to summarize something that's technically demanding, where stepping through the individual details are not really required / would not be instructive / would be too much trouble. Maybe you could explain the complicated and impenetrable nature of what you do such that any reasonably smart person couldn't or doesn't do it when examining his/her own beliefs?

Maybe I have you confused for one of the many American exceptionalist pricks running amok in this section (including the fucking mod)

[Edited on March 2, 2011 at 3:04 PM. Reason : .]

3/2/2011 3:03:36 PM

Quote :

"I believe you. I don't even deny that you killed some bad people, or that the U.S. military has killed some bad people. Certainly, that's true. There's some problems, though. For one, if you're in the military, you're working for one of the bad guys. Yes, the U.S. government is full of greedy, corrupt assholes, like every other government, and individuals often go to war to benefit themselves. You don't strike me as someone that simply puts their faith in the government to do and say the right thing. The other problem, the main problem, is that we're waging wars on the dime of people that don't necessarily want their money spent that way. In fact, we're borrowing money that has to be paid back, with interest in order to fight these wars and maintain the empire. The economic distress that this will cause is much worse than the distress that would have been caused by not going to war. I wouldn't have a problem if you decided to join a league of mercenaries and kill dudes that are obviously violating human rights. That's at least somewhat justifiable, and not paid for by us through a devalued currency. "

Yes, you are preaching to the choir, but...

Quote :

"Duke, No offense and I agree that it is not a surprise that US is waging wars for its own economic interests. However, if join the Marines your purpose is to protect those US interests, which (from the first sentence) have nothing to do with making a world a better place. To say wars are waged for economic interests and joining military to make the world a better place is mutually exclusive."

...those things are in no way mutually exclusive.

I am fully capable of recognizing all the things the two of you are mentioning, and even disagreeing with the foreign policy and/or strategic-level military planning, and still gearing up and strapping into my jet, fangs out and with no reservations. The happenings in the Oval Office or Capitol Hill are of great academic interest to me, but are completely irrelevant when I'm flying overhead and hear a radio call from an out-of-breath dude on the ground with a bunch of machine-gun fire in the background. Or, if I can help lead to the killing or capture of Taliban fighters (and in some cases, fairly high-level leaders), that's a good thing. Or, if I'm in a staff (read: desk) job in Qatar or Baghdad, putting my EW book-knowledge to work on CREW implementation to prevent friendly troops from getting killed by radio-controlled IEDs...that's a good thing, and I've gotten great satisfaction out of it.

I am not in a position to influence U.S. foreign policy. I am in a position to help save the lives of good people and take the lives of bad people (thereby saving more lives of good people, and not just friendly soldiers). What I think about America's military action in ____ is irrelevant, in that there's nothing I can do to change it. It just so happens that the 2 places I've been deployed to fight have been against some real motherfuckers of enemies (particularly the Taliban), so while whether or not I should have been there is up for debate, I was in a position to do some really good things regardless by virtue of being there with the training and equipment that I had at my disposal.

Quote :

"Maybe I have you confused for one of the many American exceptionalist pricks running amok in this section (including the fucking mod)"

You are so goddamn obtuse. To start with, the doctrine of American exceptionalism has nothing to do with what the points I'm making. Furthermore, did you completely miss what I said that started this whole discussion, about how it's wishful thinking that we go around like a knight in shining armor, spending all day helping the downtrodden...and how the reality is that we look out for #1?

The only thing I've said that could even remotely be construed as "American exceptionalism" is that, at least in intent, and often in effect, we're better than most countries. I mean, for a really staggering example, look at the difference in the way that the Soviets and the U.S. each approached Afghanistan. They killed something like 2 million people. I think it was roughly 10% of the population. They emplaced land mines made to look like children's toys. We, on the other hand, send a billion dollars worth of aircraft, burn a half-million dollar's worth of fuel, have all kinds of crazy shit that I can't even talk about going on...just to catch, say, 3 dudes...and even then, most of the time we don't even kill them--we just capture them.

[Edited on March 2, 2011 at 3:24 PM. Reason : although, America is the world's most awesome country. Reference a thread made a while back.]

3/2/2011 3:13:14 PM

The only time I referenced my job was in response to your suggestion that I would need to be brought up to speed - by you, by the way, as we're talking about appeals to authority - on matters of foreign policy, or, for that matter, ethics. I've never asked anyone to agree with me on any point of substance due to my background. Frankly, I'd just as soon not bring it up at all, accept that you keep evoking my imagined lack of knowledge when defending your evasiveness.

I produce daily OSINT briefings for people in the foreign policy/homeland security community. I would never say that makes me the ultimate authority on anything (in fact I feel rather awkward bringing it up), but it should at least indicate that I know enough not to be accused of needing a personal tutor by petulant little shits who have displayed absolutely zero actual knowledge on the subject.

Quote :

"Maybe I have you confused for one of the many American exceptionalist pricks running amok in this section (including the fucking mod)"

I don't believe in it in the way you think I do. I do, however, think the US, imperfect as it is, has the moral authority, the ability, and at times the responsibility to intervene one way or another whenever Fascistic bullies decide to enslave or kill off entire populations of people. Perhaps that makes me morally suspicious in your view. In fact, I'm sure it does. What I'd be interested in is why?

[Edited on March 2, 2011 at 3:29 PM. Reason : ]

3/2/2011 3:19:48 PM

Then I'm left to conclude based on your positions that you're borderline psychotic or can't understand how to frame an ethical argument.

Sorry to assume you're ignorant but it was between "ignorant" and "piece of shit human being" and I was giving you the benefit of the doubt. Thanks for removing the ambiguity, then. Given this you know what I know and I can simply pin your shitty positions on a generally shitty character.

3/2/2011 3:25:28 PM

What about my character is shitty?

3/2/2011 3:27:59 PM