http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/mar/21/us-army-kill-team-afghanistan-posed-pictures-murdered-civilians

Quote :

"Commanders in Afghanistan are bracing themselves for possible riots and public fury triggered by the publication of "trophy" photographs of US soldiers posing with the dead bodies of defenceless Afghan civilians they killed. Senior officials at Nato's International Security Assistance Force in Kabul have compared the pictures published by the German news weekly Der Spiegel to the images of US soldiers abusing prisoners in Abu Ghraib in Iraq which sparked waves of anti-US protests around the world. They fear that the pictures could be even more damaging as they show the aftermath of the deliberate murders of Afghan civilians by a rogue US Stryker tank unit that operated in the southern province of Kandahar last year. Some of the activities of the self-styled "kill team" are already public, with 12 men currently on trial in Seattle for their role in the killing of three civilians. Five of the soldiers are on trial for pre-meditated murder, after they staged killings to make it look like they were defending themselves from Taliban attacks. Other charges include the mutilation of corpses, the possession of images of human casualties and drug abuse. All of the soldiers have denied the charges. They face the death penalty or life in prison if convicted. The case has already created shock around the world, particularly with the revelations that the men cut "trophies" from the bodies of the people they killed. An investigation by Der Spiegel has unearthed approximately 4,000 photos and videos taken by the men. The magazine, which is planning to publish only three images, said that in addition to the crimes the men were on trial for there are "also entire collections of pictures of other victims that some of the defendants were keeping". The US military has strived to keep the pictures out of the public domain fearing it could inflame feelings at a time when anti-Americanism in Afghanistan is already running high. In a statement, the army said it apologised for the distress caused by photographs "depicting actions repugnant to us as human beings and contrary to the standards and values of the United States". The lengthy Spiegel article that accompanies the photographs contains new details about the sadistic behaviour of the men. In one incident in May last year, the article says, during a patrol, the team apprehended a mullah who was standing by the road and took him into a ditch where they made him kneel down. The group's leader, Staff Sergeant Calvin Gibbs, then allegedly threw a grenade at the man while an order was given for him to be shot. Afterwards, Gibbs is described cutting off one of the man's little fingers and removing a tooth. The patrol team later claimed to their superiors that the mullah had tried to threaten them with a grenade and that they had no choice but to shoot. On Sunday night many organisations employing foreign staff, including the United Nations, ordered their staff into a "lockdown", banning all movements around Kabul and requiring people to remain in their compounds. In addition to the threat from the publication of the photographs, security has been heightened amid fears the Taliban may try to attack Persian new year celebrations. There could also be attacks because Hamid Karzai, the Afghan president, is due to make a speech declaring which areas of the country should be transferred from international to Afghan control in the coming months. One security manager for the US company DynCorp sent an email to clients warning that publication of the photos was likely "to incite the local population" as the "severity of the incidents to be revealed are graphic and extreme"."

Feel free to look at the pictures yourself.

The Administration's response?

We shall see.

3/21/2011 7:03:37 PM

atleast some of them are going to "trial" (which was honestly more than I expected)

3/21/2011 7:12:16 PM

I say if the fuckers are found guilty, we turn them over to the Afghans.

3/21/2011 8:05:28 PM

Treason is still a hanging offense right?

3/21/2011 10:42:58 PM

do you even know what treason is? jesus christ....

3/21/2011 11:03:55 PM

They are effectively providing aid to the enemy. I don't think the letter of the law will let us hang them, but the spirit of it probably should. If we can't hang them for that, the military should at least give them the needle for murder. Contrary to what 0EP and others say, those of us who support the wars generally think that murdering Muslims/Arabs/Afghans is no better than murdering anyone else. And with the added benefit that we tend to favor hanging the bastards who do the murdering.

Hell, I'll go so far as to agree with aaronburro that we should hand them over to Afghanistan.

3/22/2011 1:12:30 AM

Let me start by stating that I in no way condone any of this behavior, especially the killing of civilians.

However, this type of thing is in no way new to the history of war. In fact its all too common. The long term side effect of being surrounded by war and violence inevitably leads to the desensitizing of emotions, the "gallows humor", and the dehumanizing of the enemy and human life in general. This sort of thing has been around since the beginning of time and war itself, and has been perpetrated by all sides of human conflict. The only difference is that in modern society, this sort of thing can been seen on the news and in the forefront, but its naive to think this is something new.



The famous photo of Columbian Soldiers posing with Pablo Escobars body

[Edited on March 22, 2011 at 3:20 AM. Reason : .]

3/22/2011 3:16:05 AM

^ While I'm sure some of the media will try and spin this as outrage over the photos, that's missing the point entirely. The real outrage is at the intentional killing of civilians. The photos are just extra, and more or less evidence that it was intentional.

Also, what ^^ said.

[Edited on March 22, 2011 at 7:57 AM. Reason : asdf]

3/22/2011 7:56:39 AM

Quote :

"However, this type of thing is in no way new to the history of war. In fact its all too common. The long term side effect of being surrounded by war and violence inevitably leads to the desensitizing of emotions, the "gallows humor", and the dehumanizing of the enemy and human life in general. This sort of thing has been around since the beginning of time and war itself, and has been perpetrated by all sides of human conflict. The only difference is that in modern society, this sort of thing can been seen on the news and in the forefront, but its naive to think this is something new."

War is hell.

3/22/2011 8:18:24 AM

Quote :

"The famous photo of Columbian Soldiers posing with Pablo Escobars body"

Pablo Escobar was a terrorist who killed thousands of people. I don't blame them at all for posing proudly over his dead ass. Absolutely nothing like the Afghan case.

3/22/2011 8:55:06 AM

Quote :

""The famous photo of Columbian Soldiers posing with Pablo Escobars body""

I'm with lazarus, Pablo Escobar was a trophy kill, and got treated as such.

Random civilians are not, and these guys should be punished appropriately.

3/22/2011 9:21:47 AM

I wonder when people will wake up and realize that no matter what time you live in, what planet you live on, when you fight a war there are going to be shit tons of murders and rapes and bullshit to sort out. This has been and always will be the constant in any war, no matter the President
Obama or GW Bush (I know most of you are gritting your teeth so hard they're numb hearing that it happened with Obama, but wake the fuck up)

This is war. I am not accepting this behavior, but if any leader decides to engage his nation into war, this stuff will happen.

edit: anyway, if these guys did this they don't deserve to live another day of life. drop them off into the streets of kabul naked.

[Edited on March 22, 2011 at 10:43 AM. Reason : 1]

3/22/2011 10:39:42 AM

^this

it's what happens when you rewire a human beings mind into a killing machine....

3/22/2011 11:45:06 AM

Step 1: Scare the idiot populace into thinking all Muslims want to kill them and their family

Step 2: Train them to be killing machines

Step 3: Present them with the means to kill Muslims

Step 4: ???

3/22/2011 11:50:44 AM

Quote :

"Pablo Escobar was a terrorist who killed thousands of people. I don't blame them at all for posing proudly over his dead ass. Absolutely nothing like the Afghan case."

I don't think the comparison was about the justification of the killing. I think red baron was just pointing out the propensity for taking a picture after killing folks as a not uncommon thing (as far as killing folks go).

3/22/2011 11:53:43 AM

Step 4: Equip with tinfoil hats.

^ Could be. Either way, I think the distinction is important. Taking pleasure (or at least relief) in killing a monster is different from getting your kicks by murdering innocent people.

[Edited on March 22, 2011 at 11:57 AM. Reason : ]

3/22/2011 11:53:57 AM

^
Give me a break. There are a lot of REALLY fucking stupid people in the military. You give them a weapon and a means to carry out their irrational hate toward Muslims and you end up with situations like this. There are skinheads and racists in the states that commit violent atrocities. Do you really think the military is immune to this?

On top of this, exposure to extreme violence can have drastic effects on a persons psychiatric state. Normal people can be turned in to "monsters".



[Edited on March 22, 2011 at 12:14 PM. Reason : can't spell]

3/22/2011 12:05:15 PM

We give soldiers guns, tell them to kill people, and expect them not to become monsters. Killing takes a huge psychological toll on a person. This is a predictable consequence of war.

3/22/2011 12:13:20 PM

Your theory about brainwashed hordes of bigoted zombies is one that bears no resemblance to the actual US military. Saying these goons are representative of the US military as a whole is like saying Charles Manson is just an average Californian. I mean, what could you expect with all that sunshine?

3/22/2011 12:35:28 PM

Regardless of whether it is a predictable outcome or not, we punish monsters. That it isn't surprising doesn't make it any less outrageous.

3/22/2011 12:43:10 PM

Quote :

"Your theory about brainwashed hordes of bigoted zombies is one that bears no resemblance to the actual US military. Saying these goons are representative of the US military as a whole is like saying Charles Manson is just an average Californian. I mean, what could you expect with all that sunshine."

This is not an isolated incident. There are many cases of extreme unnecessary violence in the US military that have been covered by the media, and no doubt many more have gone uncovered. You're a blind fool if you won't admit this.

3/22/2011 12:45:18 PM

Obviously, it's outrageous. I'm pointing out yet another unintended consequence of our foreign policy.

3/22/2011 12:47:50 PM

Quote :

"Pablo Escobar was a terrorist who killed thousands of people. I don't blame them at all for posing proudly over his dead ass. Absolutely nothing like the Afghan case."

I was not using Escobar as a comparison to civilians, I was merely using the photo as an example of the point I was making.

Quote :

"I don't think the comparison was about the justification of the killing. I think red baron was just pointing out the propensity for taking a picture after killing folks as a not uncommon thing (as far as killing folks go)."

Thank you Disco_Stu

3/22/2011 1:24:53 PM

I'm not getting the line of "This is nothing new, war has always created rapists and murderers." I mean, yeah, that's true. Civilian society has also always created rapists and murderers. We punish them and try to prevent them in both cases. To me you might as well be saying "the Earth rotates."

The only reason this incident is more relevant than any other heinous crime is that it's going to have a serious violent backlash that will affect the non-asshole majority of troops and the non-terrorist majority of Afghans.

3/22/2011 1:40:22 PM

So...where are the pictures?

3/22/2011 2:25:06 PM

Quote :

"There are many cases of extreme unnecessary violence in the US military that have been covered by the media, and no doubt many more have gone uncovered. You're a blind fool if you won't admit this."

There are many cases of extreme unnecessary violence by black people that have been covered by the media, and no doubt many more have gone uncovered. You're a blind fool if you won't admit this, and admit that black people are a monolithic group brainwashed into committing senseless violence by Dr. Dre and Snoop Doggy Dogg.

[Edited on March 22, 2011 at 2:54 PM. Reason : ]

3/22/2011 2:53:58 PM

Haha and it becomes clear why he does OSINT and not any actual intelligence work

3/22/2011 3:59:01 PM

Quote :

"admit that black people are a monolithic group brainwashed into committing senseless violence by Dr. Dre and Snoop Doggy Dogg culture and society"

isn't too far off.

I don't think adultswim is suggesting that all members of the military are brainwashed, but that some are.

Just like not all black people are brainwashed, but some are.

Granted, I think most everyone is brainwashed in one way or another - point still stands.

3/22/2011 4:24:36 PM

Quote :

"There are many cases of extreme unnecessary violence by black people that have been covered by the media, and no doubt many more have gone uncovered. You're a blind fool if you won't admit this, and admit that black people are a monolithic group brainwashed into committing senseless violence by Dr. Dre and Snoop Doggy Dogg."

1. I didn't say the military is a monolithic group in the sense of what we are discussing.

2. Violent rap songs absolutely inspire violence in impressionable youths, and that often carries into adulthood, but it's just music. It would be very different if BET was telling black people to go out and commit acts of violence.

3. If Snoop Dogg and Dre were rapping about large swaths of white people wanting to kill black people, I would absolutely be concerned.

tldr: your comparison is ridiculous

[Edited on March 22, 2011 at 4:38 PM. Reason : .]

3/22/2011 4:26:22 PM

This thread is the death of personal accountability.

3/22/2011 4:27:28 PM

Hey we've gotten better in the last few thousands of years.

Back in the day when a city was conquered everyone contributed to the raping, pillaging, and murdering.

3/22/2011 6:21:33 PM

It has been suggested that there is an institutional campaign (By the government? The military? Jewish think tanks? Who knows?) to brainwash the public into an irrational fear of Muslims, and that this has resulted in a military comprised of some significant number of psychopathic killing machines with a thirst for Muslim blood.

Quite scary if true. Evidence for this shall be forthcoming, I'm sure.

3/22/2011 11:58:50 PM

Quote :

"It has been suggested that there is an institutional campaign"

I wouldn't call it an "institutional campaign". I don't think there is a collaborative movement. Different individuals and groups are just manipulating people's fears for monetary and political gain. It's nothing new.

Quote :

"By the government? The military? Jewish think tanks? Who knows?"

The far right (Limbaugh, Beck, Coulter, Malkin, Bachmann, etc.). They commonly equivocate Muslims with terrorists, and undoubtedly some members of the military are convinced by this rhetoric. I don't know whether or not it's significant, but it's definitely there.

2010 Gallup poll on American opinion of Muslims:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/125312/Religious-Prejudice-Stronger-Against-Muslims.aspx

[Edited on March 23, 2011 at 12:27 AM. Reason : .]

3/23/2011 12:10:40 AM

Quote :

"I don't think there is a collaborative movement."

Then you shouldn't implied as much in your little Ethnic Cleaner's How-To Guide.

3/23/2011 8:47:57 AM

^
Didn't mean to imply that, but I admit it can be construed that way. Hope I have sufficiently explained my position at this point

[Edited on March 23, 2011 at 10:02 AM. Reason : .]

3/23/2011 10:00:16 AM

Fair enough. In that case, I probably don't much disagree with your point.

3/23/2011 10:50:23 AM

Train men to kill.

Act surprised when they do so.

3/24/2011 11:15:24 AM

ITT: A lot of people who have never been shot at or shot at someone pontificate about killing.

[Edited on March 29, 2011 at 11:01 AM. Reason : .]

3/29/2011 11:00:38 AM

You say that like it's a bad thing.

3/29/2011 11:06:07 AM

http://militarytimes.com/blogs/outside-the-wire/2011/04/05/kill-team-brigade-commander-pushed-strike-and-destroy/

Quote :

"Was a brigade commander an instigator or just asleep at the switch while the 5th Stryker Brigade, 2nd Infantry Division, “kill team” was allegedly murdering civilians? An Army investigation finds no “causal relationship” between Col. Harry D. Tunnell IV’s aggressive leadership and the killings, but it criticizes Tunnell for neglectfulness that created a climate ripe for misconduct. The investigation, first reported by Der Spiegel on Monday, ended in a letter of admonition for Tunnell, per I Corps Commander Lt. Gen Curtis “Mike” Scaparotti. Tunnell’s superiors in Afghanistan lost confidence in him after he threw out the playbook and butted heads with commanders, derisively rejecting capacity-building counterinsurgency doctrine in favor of a “counter-guerilla” strategy that concentrated in engaging and destroying the enemy. “Soldiers lives are routinely put at hazard because the doctrine has not been written within a context of American military art and science, organization or capability,” he told investigators in his own statement for the report. “US Army forces are not organized, trained, or equipped to implement the doctrine.” Der Speigel, quoting from the report, said Tunnell was on a personal crusade in Afghanistan to take revenge for being shot in the leg in Irag; He kept the metal rod from his leg on his desk and would use it “as an illustration,” one officer said. One soldier said of a talk by Tunnell, “If I were to paraphrase the speech and my impressions about the speech in a single sentence, the phrase would be: ‘Let’s kill those motherfuckers.’” The Washington Post, which also obtained a copy of the report, quotes Brig. Gen. Frederick B. Hodges, then-director of operations in southern Afghanistan: “Looking back on my relationship with him, I regret that I wasn’t more involved in his professional development during his tenure as a brigade commander,” Hodges said. “I should have specifically told him that MG Carter and I had lost confidence in his ability to command from his failure to follow instructions and intent.” The Seattle Times reports that Tunnell’s approach inspired fierce loyalty among some soldiers, but alienated some officers. “What was shocking was the level of … disorganization, the level of mistrust among the lieutenant colonels (in the brigade) and their commander,” said Stjepan Mestrovic, a sociologist who was given access to the report as a defense expert witness for Spc. Jeremy Morlock, who pleaded guilty last month to participating in the murder of the unarmed Afghans. UPDATE: Tunnell’s break with Gen. Stanley McChrystal’s COIN guidance should have come as no surprise. In 2009, Army Times’ Sean Naylor detailed in a controversial piece from the war zone how squad leaders in Tunnell’s brigade were vocally upset that Tunnell was calling his own non-COIN plays, and that they felt unprepared for Afghanistan. Frustration with the disconnect bred a cynical humor at one company command post, where a quote posted on the wall read: “Apparently COIN stands for Clearing Operations in November.”"

4/6/2011 8:07:03 AM

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-kill-team-20110327

From reading this it looks like more than just the actual kill team were aware of what was going on. It's long, but worth reading.

Quote :

"Toward the end of Morlock's interview, the conversation turned to the mindset that had allowed the killings to occur. "None of us in the platoon – the platoon leader, the platoon sergeant – no one gives a fuck about these people," Morlock said. Then he leaned back in his chair and yawned, summing up the way his superiors viewed the people of Afghanistan. "Some shit goes down," he said, "you're gonna get a pat on the back from your platoon sergeant: Good job. Fuck 'em.""

4/7/2011 6:26:08 PM

Only convicted murderers may convict others of murder.

4/8/2011 3:10:32 PM

Quote :

"This thread is the death of personal accountability."

The cause and effect relationship does not negate personal responsibility.

4/9/2011 11:40:45 PM

So on the one hand, we have Winfield who was disturbed by the killing, messaged his father about it, and even appeared to identify with the victims (a good sign of empathy). Then, after being accepted into the platoon and made to fear for his life on some level, he participated in a killing himself--something he's extremely forthcoming and remorseful about now.

On the other hand, we have Morlock who burned his wife with a cigarette just before shipping out. He openly bragged about his participation in one of the first murders and still doesn't seem to feel all that bad about it.

[Edited on April 10, 2011 at 5:09 PM. Reason : ]

4/10/2011 4:59:50 PM

I honestly don't see how this surprises people?

4/11/2011 10:49:46 PM

It surprises me. I see killing happening in the spur of the moment...not a handful of murderers getting together and planning it. That is kinda crazy to me.

4/12/2011 12:48:10 AM

Not when they've been deployed to the mountains of Afghanistan and probably killed countless others. It's what they're paid to do. Killing and violence becomes an addiction. Soldiers come to embrace it. Kill a couple Muj and you become desensitized to the killing of humans. Throw in the fact that many civilians there will smile at you one minute and blow your brains out the next. It's easy to criticize it as a civilian, but as a serviceman in theater you're entire civilian life is just a distant memory. That includes rational thought regarding murder, violence and respect of human life. Especially if members of your unit have been wounded or KIA. If you woke up everyday expecting to die, I doubt you would give a fuck either.

I'm not condoning the murdering of innocent civilians, but what do you fucking expect when you take a bunch of 18 year olds, give them a $30,000 bonus, train them to kill and toss them into a fucking war in the most inhospitable terrain imaginable. It's the perfect recipe for fucking bloodshed. It's like taking eggs, adding milk, adding flower and sugar, stirring it all up and tossing it into a hot fucking oven and then being surprised when a cake pops out. War is nasty and it makes men become nasty and I'll never understand how your typical civilian is so ignorant to that.

4/12/2011 1:23:16 PM

30K Bonus?

What the fuck are you smoking sir.

4/20/2011 3:58:05 AM

^^

If that were the case, we should expect to find things like this happening on a much wider scale. You act like its impossible to expect a soldier to remain professional in a war zone, yet that is exactly what happens 99.9 percent of the time.

Quote :

"train them to kill"

They are also trained to do many other things, like follow the appropriate rules of engagement.

4/20/2011 8:59:52 AM

Quote :

"It's easy. You just don't lead 'em as much!"

4/20/2011 10:21:00 AM