Before We Accept That He Wants Them Around?

5/3/2011 2:36:45 PM

While I'm not sure that God has a problem with gays I am damn sure that this argument is stupid. How many mass murderers/genocides/terrorists/plagues/tsunamis must God create before we accept that He wants them around? God set up a system with a 100% death rate but I'm not a huge fan of dying.

5/3/2011 5:38:36 PM

Well, I'm not sure that comparing (innate, IMHO) human traits to weather and geological patterns is valid either. Mass murders and terrorists have choices to make about their behavior, while gay people do not. That's the distinction the representative made.

5/3/2011 5:41:55 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_of_evil

5/3/2011 5:42:11 PM

^^Wait wait wait. Is homosexuality a matter of nature, like geological and meteorological patterns, or is it not?

I was under the impression that it wasn't cool to call it a "choice" anymore. Help me out here, I'm just trying to stay hip.

[Edited on May 3, 2011 at 5:48 PM. Reason : .]

5/3/2011 5:47:25 PM

Quote :

"Mass murders and terrorists have choices to make about their behavior, while gay people do not."

Why? Is the inward, emotional, psychological compulsion for a serial killer to kill less than the sexual compulsion for a person with same sex attraction?

Is the former controllable while the latter is not?

[Edited on May 3, 2011 at 6:05 PM. Reason : a]

5/3/2011 6:04:41 PM

Quote :

"Wait wait wait. Is homosexuality a matter of nature, like geological and meteorological patterns, or is it not? "

Holy shit, I agree with smc.

You can't have it both ways. Either it's a matter of nature, in which case it's exactly like every other natural thing created, or it's a matter of choice, in which case they get to pick, just like the murderers. (Although this case would make the whole "God created..." argument pointless, since we're choosing rather than being created as such)

Look, I got no problem with gays and I'm convinced that homosexuality is primarily something people are born with, but the case for those positions is not well-served by such a poorly conceived argument.

5/3/2011 6:09:32 PM

^^ Being gay and having those feelings doesn't hurt anyone or violate anyone's rights. I don't think the same could be said about murderers.

[Edited on May 3, 2011 at 6:11 PM. Reason : .]

5/3/2011 6:11:09 PM

Quote :

"^^ Being gay and having those feelings doesn't hurt anyone or violate anyone's rights. I don't think the same could be said about murderers."

That isn't the point. Why would God create anyone that has no choice but to commit what he considers evil? The objection to the problem of evil is that humans must have free will in order to be of any value, or whatever. If people are created with a disposition to do bad things, you can throw that right out.

5/3/2011 6:22:03 PM

Quote :

"^^ Being gay and having those feelings doesn't hurt anyone or violate anyone's rights. I don't think the same could be said about murderers."

That's irrelevant.

Flying Tiger said mass murderers have a choice, while gay folks don't. I'm asking why he thinks that is the case.

None of that is relevant to a case for/against the legality of either activity.

5/3/2011 6:26:34 PM

Quote :

"Being gay and having those feelings doesn't hurt anyone or violate anyone's rights. I don't think the same could be said about murderers."

I agree, but what you've said is immaterial. Nobody is saying that murdering a guy is on the same moral level as buttfucking him.

5/3/2011 6:47:28 PM

I don't think labeling a person as "gay" or straight is even that straightforward. Sexual preference is a continuum. That being said, I believe that like pretty much everything else it is a combination of nature and nurture, leaning toward nature. If i pop into the thread later when I'm not on my phone I'll see if i can find some reading on the topic.

5/3/2011 7:25:54 PM

Most people don't consent to being murdered.

[Edited on May 3, 2011 at 7:26 PM. Reason : ...]

5/3/2011 7:26:24 PM

A stupid, but necessary argument. Smart arguments don't work on stupid people.

5/3/2011 7:38:12 PM

the "please keep the applause to yourself" guy make me shoot my chocolate milk out of my nose. not because he's silly looking (he is) but because he's "that" guy.

5/3/2011 9:09:40 PM

you find whole rooms of "that guy" when robert's rules are in effect

...

that video and speech are really great, btw

5/3/2011 9:14:16 PM

I don't accept it. That's all that matters

5/3/2011 11:40:39 PM

Well, here's hoping that you have a gay kid so you can have an opportunity to rid some of that dick that's in your head.

5/4/2011 2:06:10 AM

Quote :

"I was under the impression that it wasn't cool to call it a "choice" anymore. Help me out here, I'm just trying to stay hip."

It's not scientifically accurate; cooless and hipness followed from that.

5/4/2011 2:15:10 AM

You mean Nature vs Nurture has been decided overnight! This is fantastic news! Why didn't anyone inform me?

5/4/2011 3:44:08 AM

It was discovered over many decades of research

Now what hasn't been determined is how much of it is genetic; from cases of identical twins of different sexual orientations, influences in the environment of the womb are hypothesized.

Still the innate character of sexual orientation is well-documented; it corresponds to different brain compositions and is correlated with some unusual physical features (like the hair swirl on most gay men's heads turns in the opposite direction to the swirl on most straight men's heads).

5/4/2011 6:39:56 AM

Quote :

"A stupid, but necessary argument. Smart arguments don't work on stupid people."

5/4/2011 8:12:28 AM

I notice that nobody has actually answered the question in the OP. In case you were wondering, the answer is three billion gays.

5/4/2011 1:09:05 PM

nice

5/4/2011 1:35:41 PM

Thread title is inaccurate. God doesn't create gays. They're products of the devil.

5/4/2011 1:40:11 PM

^ Lol

Bringing a fictional character into an argument is not logical. Actually, it's quite absurd.

That being said, who cares, let gay people marry each other.

[Edited on May 5, 2011 at 9:40 AM. Reason : ..]

5/5/2011 9:38:48 AM

Quote :

"They're products of the devil"

That is an oversimplification of things. And it's probably not good to speak to people with little spiritual understanding of things like that. Biblically all iniquity (turning away from God) is a product of Satan.


Regarding what JAK said; the reason why many Christians have a problem with gay marriage is because according to scripture it is a defilement of the sanctity of marriage. This is because marriage is a worldly symbol of the union of the saints and Christ. I am all for giving gay couples ALL the rights of married couples. Just do not put God in the ceremony. But either way arguing this point is arbitrary, people will continue their actions no matter what I or anyone else says or does. There is nothing new done under the sun. So arguing about it is just a waste of time.

5/6/2011 1:54:35 AM

Quote :

"spiritual understanding"

5/6/2011 8:51:48 AM

Quote :

"the reason why many Christians have a problem with gay marriage is because according to scripture it is a defilement of the sanctity of marriage"

I'm fairly certain it's because gays are different and icky.

The bible condemns a lot of things that many Christians do without hesitation.

5/6/2011 9:00:11 AM

You're not reading it correctly, obviously Lumex. It takes an imaginary essence flowing through you to correctly interpret the mistranslated words of heat-baked sand farmers from thousands of years ago.

5/6/2011 9:01:47 AM

Shrooms work too

5/6/2011 9:21:40 AM

^^^simple as that IMO; as Westboro Baptist once said:

5/6/2011 10:54:58 PM

Quote :

"Regarding what JAK said; the reason why many Christians have a problem with gay marriage is because according to scripture it is a defilement of the sanctity of marriage. This is because marriage is a worldly symbol of the union of the saints and Christ. I am all for giving gay couples ALL the rights of married couples. Just do not put God in the ceremony. "

Marriage is not solely a Christian institution. Furthermore, be they Christian or not, what right do you have to tell others they can't put god in their ceremony? Or have a ceremony without god, for that matter--my wedding sure as shit didn't.

5/6/2011 11:50:01 PM

see this is a CHRISTIAN nation

the CONSTITUTION even said so, it was written by the grace of ALMIGHTY GOD

5/7/2011 1:46:30 AM

It doesn't matter whether being gay is a choice or not, how about you mind your own fucking business?

5/7/2011 10:39:10 AM

Word.

5/7/2011 10:39:58 AM

"a spiritual understanding" = a lack of understanding

5/7/2011 3:36:45 PM

I thought this thread would be about the lost lyrics to Blowin' in the Wind.

5/7/2011 3:59:31 PM

Well played, sir. Well played.

5/7/2011 11:28:07 PM

Quote :

"Marriage is not solely a Christian institution. Furthermore, be they Christian or not, what right do you have to tell others they can't put god in their ceremony? Or have a ceremony without god, for that matter--my wedding sure as shit didn't."

It's like I said no matter what the opinion is they will do what they want, so arguing about it is meaningless. I'm just telling you why "gay marriage" is against scripture and why I frown upon it. Even if I frown upon it, I wouldn't go around telling gays they're going to hell; the idea is to tell people the good news of the gospel.

Quote :

"The bible condemns a lot of things that many Christians do without hesitation."

I'm aware of this. Even the greatest of saints often cannot keep their way straight. However, the true saints repent when they backslide and do not continue to work evil. After all the only flesh that never sinned was Jesus Christ.

Quote :

""a spiritual understanding" = a lack of understanding"

It's quite the opposite actually, things become much clearer when you accept the spirit of the Lord. It's very difficult to comprehend before it happens but, afterwards your eyes are opened.

5/8/2011 2:28:44 AM

LeonIsTroll

5/8/2011 8:18:01 AM

^
He's not trolling. Search his post history for "God".

5/8/2011 10:19:39 AM

^^^ What if I accepted Zeus or Thor? Would that mean I gained "a spiritual understanding" too?

Sorry but having a spiritual understanding means that you have become content with not understanding the world.

The fact that you follow what a 2000 year old book written by ancient middle eastern sheep herders for your moral code is absurd. In your mind, its ok if gays get married, they'll just be going to hell. Thankfully, there is no hell for anyone to go to.

[Edited on May 8, 2011 at 12:40 PM. Reason : ..]

5/8/2011 12:40:29 PM

Quote :

"It's quite the opposite actually, things become much clearer when you accept the spirit of the Lord. It's very difficult to comprehend before it happens but, afterwards your eyes are opened. "

I can imagine one feeling a great relief of stress after accepting the Lord.

It actually makes perfect sense. When you stop actually trying to consider the effects of your actions, and think about consequences, but instead just blindly accept what you think other religious people want you to do, it would make your life much easier.

You don’t actually have to think about whether or not your prejudice for gay people is rational, or where it came from, you just blindly accept that it’s justified based on how you interpret the Bible. Ignorance is bliss, as they say.

5/8/2011 12:40:46 PM

^ we've got a winner

5/8/2011 12:42:33 PM

Snaps! I just figured out Leon's username!

[Edited on May 8, 2011 at 12:50 PM. Reason : ^^I'm with that guy.]

5/8/2011 12:49:52 PM

^^^+1 insightful

5/8/2011 2:24:42 PM

Quote :

"It's quite the opposite actually, things become much clearer when you accept the spirit of the Lord. It's very difficult to comprehend before it happens but, afterwards your eyes are opened."

deluded is the diametric opposite of "clearer."

5/8/2011 2:39:14 PM

Gays exist because women are trifling, over-dramatic, underhanded, fake, scheming cunts

5/8/2011 5:22:53 PM

but I thought gays liked women

they just didn't want to bang them

5/8/2011 7:37:58 PM