i wouldnt really make this topic but I heard an interesting theory recently that upon thinking about it makes complete sense to me.

In the hey day of file sharing programs, it got to a point where the male demographic began downloading tracks and albums off the internet and stopped buying albums. Record labels noticed this and realized that they could make money off of women and teens. Teens have money that is nearly all spent on liesure as they have no bills or responsibility, so it makes sense to market to them.

In order to market to them, they had to dumb down the music. Hip hop, rnb, country, alternative has all been dumbed down to goofy poppy tracks and stuff that got these teens and women dancing in clubs.

This is readily apparent in rap, where at some point street shit stopped selling and stopped being produced and it was replaced with shit that was highly woman focused (singing on hooks, men rapping with no shirts and tattoos, lyrics about being in the bedroom, picking up chicks in the club, ballers) you know, shit that appeals to women

so to this day it is singing on hooks, even worse now "rappers" singing throgh entire albums, and if the motherfuckers cant sing they use autotune through the whole album. The industry has struck "gold" with this formula and had it not been for teeny boppers and women theyd have taken it back to street teams and marketing posters on light poles, because even now album sales suck anyway and thats how these "moguls" view success, not through productive music.

Its our own fault in the end, and no it aint just hip hop, its everything. Aint nothin good, can yu believe there was a time a hip hop track like Commons "the light" actually had tremendous success? Would a Dilla beat with a brotha just spittin fire be worth a shit on these charts these days given the new target demographic? Would 4, 3,2,1 by LL Cool J be warmly received by the female teenagers and chickenheads in the club?

im sorry i just wanted to rant and hear peoples opinions, shoot me the hell down or whatever, tell me i dont make no fuckin sense. its any genre, but I am most familiar with rap and rnB. To me, RnB is dead, completely dead.

[Edited on May 6, 2011 at 12:54 PM. Reason : d]

5/6/2011 12:53:43 PM

its not, its just changing into something you don't like

I'm AstralAdvent and i approved this message.

5/6/2011 12:55:12 PM

i used to make fun of people that made comments like this and encouraged "indie music"

but now i realize i was wrong and them dudes was right


not the "small record store" types, fuck them them small stores dont mean shit, but the industry marketing and distribution they are fuckin crooked

5/6/2011 1:08:35 PM

I mean i encourage indie music, because most of the music i like is metal and most people don't like that shit, but that being said almost everyone in my family works in the music industry and it is far from dead. The pop (and i don't mean the genre pop) music industry is less about "music" than it should be, but it is far from dead or dying. Declining record sales has definitely harmed this, its not about selling albums its just about gaining attention really. Really you could say this about just about any entertainment field. Movies are shitty, there is like 1 or 2 good big budget pictures every year and maybe 2-4 small budget, and some good indie films. TV shows are shitty, every couple years a new one comes out that is good for a few seasons but then it gets too popular, writers run out of ideas blah blah blah



I'm AstralAdvent and i approved this message.

5/6/2011 1:21:46 PM

the same thing has happened in basically every generation and every genre of music that ever became somewhat popular.

the last 60 years of music has been so cyclic it's laughable.

5/6/2011 1:23:38 PM

except for indie music. go figure


thats why people tell you to support it

I'm AstralAdvent and i approved this message.

5/6/2011 1:40:44 PM

Pop music is the death of music, lowest common denominator.

5/6/2011 2:14:02 PM

the death of music yet the blood of the music industry

I'm AstralAdvent and i approved this message.

5/6/2011 2:15:19 PM

Quote :

"not the "small record store" types, fuck them them small stores dont mean shit"

VERY well said. you're a regular wordsmith.

5/6/2011 2:28:06 PM

Popular music is keeping the industry afloat in my opinion.

But it seems that they have lost faith in good music, i feel like they could push good stuff and people would still buy it. We see it in front of our very eyes every week what big industry is doing with american idol. They sit there and tell these people its more about personality and swag, how you dress and how you perform than it is about the end product, an album where nobody is gonna see your ass performing.

those same teeny boppers and women that buy the garbage will buy good music. To me it seems like the poppy golden age was at the beginning of this downloading era, so the industry started selling that type of music and have continued to do so until this very day. Had it been something else poppin at the time than thats what would be pushed to the country now. Just unfortunately it happened to be the music most irrelevant to me, not even the genre of Pop as a whole, just the sounds and the talent of certain songs was taken and evolved into todays music

hell i like a good pop track as much as the next person: Pink, maroon 5, florence and the machine good stuff but...man yall know what i mean


and then you have to make music that makes the money that you use to pay the radio stations to play your shit to get signed to a record label that wont release you unless you devolve you music even further so they can sell your music to their target audience to make the bottom line or else you get dropped and everyone will think you just suck.




[Edited on May 6, 2011 at 2:33 PM. Reason : ;]

5/6/2011 2:30:00 PM

Post modernism is heavily ingrained into Pop music these days. That's really my problem with it and thats why I avoid it. I guess thats strange because i appreciate it in all other forms of art

I'm AstralAdvent and i approved this message.

5/6/2011 2:32:02 PM

teens and women: the death of the music industry

5/6/2011 2:34:20 PM

the problem here is that everyones definition of "good music" is completely different.

5/6/2011 2:43:06 PM

There is nothing good about copying chord progressions from the early 60s and singing lyrics someone else wrote that aren't even particularly unique


Not that most 'indie' music isn't exactly the same, but at least you know that they are copying writing it themselves

I'm AstralAdvent and i approved this message.

5/6/2011 2:44:25 PM

so many ridiculous generalizations ITT

meathead gives his half-assed, totally illogical, incoherent, misogynistic thoughts on music ITT (and can't tell the difference between music itself and the music industry)

[Edited on May 6, 2011 at 2:55 PM. Reason : s]

5/6/2011 2:55:12 PM

well legitimate popular music is dead (it was probably that madonna cunt that killed it the most but I'm not sure any particular artist can be blamed), not sure how anyone can argue against that, don't know about all the other assumptions though

[Edited on May 6, 2011 at 3:18 PM. Reason : k]

5/6/2011 3:15:33 PM

The real problem is that people listen to things so much that they begin to really like them and think that they are great, without doing further research and realizing that there is other music EXACTLY like it that has been out forever. Its not even that they like it its just that someone paid for it to be heard so much [in movies, radio, tv, ads, whatever] that it becomes so familiar that you just kind of enjoy or hate it without really thinking about it or paying that much attention to it. Have you ever realized that you know all the lyrics for a song that you've never intentionally listened to or you've consciously thought "thats a cool song"? Its pretty shameful to think that somewhere someone is just playing games with your subconscious in an effort to turn over a buck for a handful of people.

There is this one song that i used to consciously hate, but after hearing it in riding in the car so much at work i realized that i was humming it without even thinking about it. Those fuckers got me

I'm AstralAdvent and i approved this message.

[Edited on May 6, 2011 at 3:23 PM. Reason : lol]

5/6/2011 3:22:10 PM

Quote :

"Would a Dilla beat with a brotha just spittin fire be worth a shit on these charts these days given the new target demographic?"

Although Dilla beats are great...it's not like all of his beats (or even his best ones) were instantly smash records. Some of the best hip-hop/rap artists sell the least number of records (in the past and in the present).

So basically...I think your theory sucks.

5/6/2011 3:28:02 PM

Quote :

"and can't tell the difference between music itself and the music industry"

explain how i am missing this distinction, or how this is relevant. because im not seeing what point your attempting to make

in any event, Adele is doing exceptionally well. shes an exceptional artist and not on anyones radar as a looker. Young people ive talked to are excited to have purchased her album. Should that not be an indication that they dont have to push formulaic music in a box? they are talking about lowering the costs of CDs to boost records, but they wont let the artists truly be creative.

but like i said i want to know how i am not making distinctions between music and the industry

^hah im not saying all of his stuff should be a hit, Im sayin that back then songs with a tight beat and a rapper spittin would be in the top 50 easily, even if its rounding out the bottom. My argument is not about the sales, its about artists using that formula no longer being given the benefit of the doubt to release that sort of music under a major label. Fuck record sales. i want to hear some shit on the radio that doesnt sound the same. A radio station that plays whatever the DJ wants to play to hang around you know?



[Edited on May 6, 2011 at 3:31 PM. Reason : f]

5/6/2011 3:29:06 PM

^Has the radio really changed? I rarely ever listen to the radio anymore (listen to my ipod or Pandora from phone), but when I do, I don't find it much different than what it was when I was in high school. Just the same top 20 shit repeated over and over again.

5/6/2011 3:33:12 PM

ITT BigHitSunday hates women

Quote :

"The real problem is that people listen to things so much that they begin to really like them and think that they are great, without doing further research and realizing that there is other music EXACTLY like it that has been out forever. Its not even that they like it its just that someone paid for it to be heard so much [in movies, radio, tv, ads, whatever] that it becomes so familiar"

QFT

5/6/2011 3:33:32 PM

its much worse, theres a much more diverse amount of songs on the general radio stations back then than there is now

and back then I complained much less about "o these songs all suck" than i complained about "damn they keep playing this song im gettin tired of it"

thats just me though, i feel like a lot of people feel that way. maybe it is just my tastes who knows. thats why we bust each others ass over it, pause


i dont feel the music is being marketed to me, and honestly id hate to try to raise a child at right now with the radio tellin my daughter to be a ho to get a balla, but thats kind of a separate issue

[Edited on May 6, 2011 at 3:37 PM. Reason : f]

5/6/2011 3:35:13 PM

because you said the music INDUSTRY is dying, yet you went on to talk about how much you don't like popular music anymore (all the while inexplicably blaming that on women and children).

how much money is made off of music and how good the music itself are two very different things. and, i think the overall point you're trying to make is that they dumb down popular music to sell it, right? that would make the music worse, but that wouldn't explain declining sales for the music industry. does that make sense?

the music industry is struggling because people would rather download music for free than pay for it, plain and simple.

EDIT:

Quote :

"My argument is not about the sales"

Exactly. So you're making an argument about the quality of music, not offering an explanation for why the music industry is dying.

[Edited on May 6, 2011 at 3:38 PM. Reason : .]

5/6/2011 3:36:15 PM

no the music industry is not letting certain things get off the cutting room floor, the artists themselves have better material that the populace willl never hear

i dont understand what you are trying to counterargue.

it does explain declining sales because they have essentially cut off certain segments of the population that might be willing to buy music if the singles offered whet their interests at least somewhat

Trey Songz supposedly is an amazing talent, but "bottles up" is not going to make me buy his album, it could all be fire shit, but im gonna just keep playing stuff i had for years and put more faith in mid major and independent music

im not attacking anybody for thinkin its not dying, as ive heard both sides, just want people to chime in

i dont even care about movies theyve never really been my thing







[Edited on May 6, 2011 at 3:44 PM. Reason : f]

5/6/2011 3:38:03 PM

Yet another cage match that BigHitSunday is gettin' whooped in.*


...seriously though, a serious discussion warrants actual understanding of how the music industry works, and beyond that the critical difference between how a market works, how you want it to work, and what music you think is "good".

None of which has been presented here.















*don't shoot me.

5/6/2011 4:16:05 PM

i cant profess more than pedestrian speculation of the industry i just heard some guys discussing it that know the industry much better than myself or any of these cats in here.

that doesnt mean i can bring it up and learn something

im not afraid to be wrong. as you put it "get my ass kicked"

i aint seen nothing in here that would make me bow down to them, though

[Edited on May 6, 2011 at 4:18 PM. Reason : f]

5/6/2011 4:18:15 PM

Quote :

"Hip hop, rnb, country, alternative has all been dumbed down to goofy poppy tracks and stuff that got these teens and women dancing in clubs."

I completely agree with the exception of country. You can't make that music any dumber than it already is.

5/6/2011 4:31:13 PM

i kinda like country :-s

5/6/2011 4:32:03 PM

^^ Sure you can. Consider the lyrical quality of the garbage Toby Keith puts out next to a song like "The Long Black Veil."

Anyway, pshoes basically won this thread with his first post, because the stuff BHS is talking about has been going on in one way or another since pop music (and I use that term loosely, going back to original jazz) was invented.

Hip-hop acts going soft to sell more records isn't any different than Pat Boone.

Quote :

"Adele is doing exceptionally well. shes an exceptional artist and not on anyones radar as a looker. Young people ive talked to are excited to have purchased her album. Should that not be an indication that they dont have to push formulaic music in a box?"

No, it should be an indication that singular talent will sell records. You're thinking of the formula as a whole, which is generic song + generic hot girl = hit record. Adele's records are pretty damn generic musically, but she has an outstanding voice, so it doesn't matter that she's fat. If you want to talk about someone who's successful while breaking the current pop star mold in both look and sound, talk about Janelle Monae.

I appreciate the point BHS is trying to make, but it's coming from a point of general ignorance in terms of the history of the record industry and the history of popular music. Yes, the individual observations are true in a vacuum, but they're nothing anyone who pays attention hasn't seen before.

5/6/2011 5:26:51 PM

For what it's worth, I'd love to see the demise of Hollywood in this lifetime.

5/6/2011 5:34:18 PM

it sucks because bands(record labels) only care about getting a song popular and not caring about taking time to make good songs.

5/6/2011 6:01:33 PM

The music industry, or perhaps the record industry specifically, has been a fairly short-lived phenomenon. Obviously, music is nothing new - singing and instrumentation has been around for thousands of years. People realized they could make physical records and sell them.

Enter the digital age, where any recording can be duplicated ad infinitum. While various moneyed interests have attempted to convince us that we must enforce some kind of "scarcity" on these non-scarce files, most people are learning that it's much easier to ignore the laws and enjoy the music, and many artists have determined that it's actually in their interest to not charge for recordings. Intellectual property, at least as it pertains to music, is not here to stay. A good portion of Americans are still dumb enough to buy music at retail outlets, and the mainstream "music industry" reflects that.

Music, not the music industry, is growing in incredible ways. It's more diverse and more accessible than it ever has been, and I attribute the great strides made to the Internet and digital distribution. On any given night, there are probably no less than 10 shows in the Raleigh area. In larger metropolitan areas, it could be hundreds.

5/6/2011 6:24:48 PM

I do agree that the mainstream of most every genre has trended towards being more soft and bland, inoffensive (not just morally--I mean in taste) and boring.

I also think that a major problem is that the concept of the "album" (much less the "concept album") is dying. Too often, it's just a couple of singles and a bunch of shitty filler.

5/6/2011 7:15:31 PM

You mean like Thriller?

Once again, these problems have been around for decades.

5/6/2011 7:18:30 PM

vinyl thanks for making good points with being jerk

youre right i dont have much of a sense of musical history or pop culture in general

in my "vacuum of knowledge" (no disrespect to vinyl, i agree with him on that) I would also agree with Duke. But at the same time its not because of the artist, its because label doesnt want what the artist may consider a complete album to be packaged as the artist intends.

i just think the songs the jimmy iovines of the world like are not in the interest of the male demographic, because according to theory that demographic stopped purchasing music and to the retards in this thread its not fucking misogynistic to point it out.

[Edited on May 6, 2011 at 7:49 PM. Reason : d]

5/6/2011 7:46:30 PM

it's misogynistic (not to mention incredibly stupid) to think women only listen to "softer" music, and to attempt to argue that popular music has gotten worse because women listen to it

you seem to be insinuating that women just like formulaic bullshit popular music

[Edited on May 6, 2011 at 8:10 PM. Reason : .]

5/6/2011 8:02:23 PM

Why this thread title ends in a question mark?

5/6/2011 8:15:09 PM

i opened the question not definitively saying the industry is dying, yet i feel that way and i dont know how others feel about it

5/6/2011 8:30:40 PM

^^What it is, y0?

5/6/2011 8:40:15 PM

Quote :

"it's misogynistic (not to mention incredibly stupid) to think women only listen to "softer" music"

"Only" listen to softer music is a strong statement, but which one of these albums do you think you're more likely to find a girl listening to?



or

5/6/2011 8:52:02 PM

Someone resurrect biggie, tupac, and assorted members of the wu-tang clan and put them back to work.

I recently found a Wu-tang album in my possession and realized how far rap has fallen.

5/6/2011 9:12:57 PM

Quote :

" but the industry marketing and distribution they are fuckin crooke"

I honestly think that this happened first with Elvis when record companies realized how much money they could make of marketing to the popular opinion. His sound and dance maves had already been around, but since it was mostly black artists doing it then nobody gave two shits about it.

5/6/2011 9:19:58 PM

Quote :

"If you want to talk about someone who's successful while breaking the current pop star mold in both look and sound, talk about Janelle "

Amy. Winehouse.

5/6/2011 9:21:31 PM

Quote :

"Someone resurrect biggie, tupac, and assorted members of the wu-tang clan and put them back to work."

Dude...you do know everyone from Wu-Tang has been releasing solo work? (other than ODB ofc)

5/6/2011 9:22:20 PM

^whoops I meant just biggie and tupac

ODB is the only guy I know that died from wu tang

5/6/2011 9:24:07 PM

ya man there are tons of brilliant rappers out there, it's just not popular music right now

5/6/2011 9:26:21 PM

Quote :

"Consider the lyrical quality of the garbage Toby Keith puts out next to a song like "The Long Black Veil.""

actually toby keith puts out some pretty good songs. he does tend to put out 1 or 2 super-patriotic songs on every album though, which gets kind of annoying.

it's the people like jason aldean, montgomery-gentry, justin moore, craig morgan, etc., etc. that put out the same shit that panders to dumb rednecks (because that shit sells like hotcakes at walmart) that is making mainstream country music unbearable.

and let's not even talk about the washed up rock acts that take up country music. (I'm looking at you Uncle Kracker and Aaron Lewis).

there is good country music out there, but a lot of it isn't coming out of Nashville. the texas country music scene has lots of bands that are 100x better than the shit that gets played on the radio here.

5/6/2011 10:07:34 PM

Quote :

""Only" listen to softer music is a strong statement, but which one of these albums do you think you're more likely to find a girl listening to?"

The records in question are a completely unfair comparison; you're much more likely to find any human being, male or female, listening to a contemporary Lady Gaga record than a Metallica record from 1984.

Quote :

"Amy. Winehouse."

I actually used Amy Winehouse in my original version of that post because a great voice and a great band (the Dap-Kings play on Back to Black) trumps all, but I went with Janelle Monae because the the Winehouse sound isn't as unconventional and genre-bending as Monae can be. The point's well taken, though.

As much as I don't care about TV talent shows, I am intrigued by The Voice for this very reason. Unfortunately, two of the judges are total hacks, so whatever.

5/6/2011 10:28:14 PM

theDuke866, which of these albums are you more likely to find a girl listening to?

or

5/6/2011 10:29:29 PM

Quote :

"i just think the songs the jimmy iovines of the world like are not in the interest of the male demographic, because according to theory that demographic stopped purchasing music and to the retards in this thread its not fucking misogynistic to point it out."

what is this theory that the male demographic stopped purchasing music? i don't understand how that could be remotely accurate. maybe it was mostly guys on napster 10-11 years ago or some shit, but i don't know how you'd determine which gender is purchasing most of the music on itunes, which is what has really been killing the music industry in terms of album sales, not illegal downloading.

5/6/2011 10:30:29 PM