Last fall, my GP1300R was bogging a little and probably 20 mph off of its normal top speed. I took it to a local shop, and they determined via their diagnostic machine (similar to OBD2) that the throttle position sensor was faulty. I left it with the shop to be repaired.

While it was there over the winter, I asked about getting it repainted...I was quoted $450-500, plus I think another $100-150 for having the rub rail replaced (paint job subcontracted to a local body shop). I told him to go ahead with it.

Well, there was ZERO progress throughout the fall/winter. I wasn't too worried about it at first, because it was too cold to ride, anyway. Finally, though, once it started getting warmer and the riding season was around the corner, I started asking about it, and then when that failed to produce any results, borderline hounding the shop owner about it. That got them to start work on it, but when it still was going excruciatingly slowly, I finally--at about the 7+ month mark--called and said "I'm coming to pick my ski up the first day I can get out of work early enough to get there before you close. I don't care if it's fixed, broken, in pieces, or whatever else." That finally got them moving on it for real...it still took another couple of weeks, but some of that was waiting on parts, etc, and as long as they were treating it as a priority, I was willing to wait at least a little longer.

Well, just when it was supposedly ready, they took it to the river for a final test, and it almost sank. This had never been a problem before--it had always been a very "dry" ski. They said that it was leaking through the pump (which I found very surprising), and they rebuilt the pump (new seals, new bearings, even a new housing). This added a lot to the final bill, which, by the way, came out to a little over $2700...a shitload more than the $1500 estimate I was (verbally) given several times. I made it clear that I displeased about the extra cost, btu I went ahead and paid it, because I figured I didn't really have much recourse...plus, I think about $500 or so was due to rebuilding the pump, a service not included in the original estimate. I was a little dubious about that being needed, but my experience with skis told me that if it didn't need it now, it would need it soon enough, anyway. That still left about $700 unaccounted for...$100-150 of it was because the paint job cost $600, not $450-500 as quoted (and they painted it a completely wrong shade of blue...but I overlooked that, too, because I will say that it does look good.

(to be continued)

5/30/2011 6:30:28 PM

Quote :

"Well, there was ZERO progress throughout the fall/winter"

no reason for this. that should be their slow season. i would've gone somewhere else right then.

go ahead and tell us the name of the shop so we'll know to stay far away

5/30/2011 6:36:32 PM

make sure you count to 10, shit like this can be frustrating as hell


I'm not sure of any recourse though, good luck!!!

5/30/2011 6:46:13 PM

Well, finally, I take it out to the river...I ride it for just a few minutes, and after a few minutes, it begins to run roughly, significantly down on power, and then starts to handle weirdly. Shortly thereafter, I realize it's riding too low in the water, and all of those problems are because it's fucking taking on water at the rapid rate. I'm already headed for the dock, so there isn't much I can do except keep going. By the time I get to the dock, the engine is totally dead, and the ski is full of water up to the cylinder heads. I manage to make it the last 10-15 yards and beach it just by holding the starter motor down to turn the drivetrain. I get it on the trailer, open the drain plugs, and it drains out at least a bathtub's worth of water...it probably took 15 minutes to get it all out.

The next day, I took it back into the shop. I sat there and watched while the owner worked on it...he finally determined that when one of employees (maybe...I think the guy's a pathological liar, and one of his employees told me earlier that "this has kinda been the boss's project) reassembled the pump, he hooked up a cooling line and the scupper/bilge line backwards. End result is that (a) the engine wasn't getting all of the cooling water it was supposed to, and (b) it was pumping its own hull full of water via the jet pump. That made me doubt further whether the pump had ever been leaking and needed rebuilding.

At any rate, he took the plugs out and cranked it for a while to blow all the water out. After that, he replaced the plugs and ran it for a few minutes. All seemed fine, so I had him check the compressions, which came out to be 125-116-120, if I remember correctly. Not too far apart, although lower than I expected with my Riva heads (they spec 145-150 psi).

Well, I leave the shop and go straight to the river to test it again. This time, everything seems to work well. I head out down the Trent, and get about 4-5 miles away, and the damn throttle linkage comes undone. It still runs, but only at idle. I stood up and took the seat off--I could see the problem, but couldn't fix it while standing on the ski in the middle of the river. I idled for about an hour until I got to a good dock, where I tied it off and got it "fixed enough" to make it home under throttle, where I fixed it for real. I really don't see how the linkage could come undone unless someone just forgot to tighten it down all the way.

I go ride it again the next day after fixing that...everything does fine. I clocked it at 68.9 mph on GPS, and had no issues. (this was all last weekend).

I took it down to Atlantic Beach yesterday, and head out on the intracoastal. Everything does fine for the first 20-30 minutes, then it starts beeping and is down on power again. I thought maybe it was overheating, as I was jumping lots of waves. I cut it off and let it sit for a few minutes, then head out again. Still down on power...so again, I start heading back. I'm miles away, though. It'll run (kinda roughly) at about 25 mph or so. Above that, it starts to sound bad, and won't really do much more, anyway. This goes on for a good while, and I think that--while I have a problem--I'll at least make it home under my own power. Well, then, it starts sounding like a fucking popcorn popper. I think "This is sure to end poorly"...I try to ease it home the last little bit very gingerly, but after about 30 seconds, it completely seizes. I got a very nice family on a Grady to tow me in the rest of the way.

(to be continued)

5/30/2011 6:51:25 PM

...so, I'm hoping that they didn't tighten something down properly when they rebuilt the pump, and after a couple of hours of riding, it came loose, knocked around and made some noise, and then totally locked up. That would very obviously be their problem, and I think that I could get him to fix it without much trouble. (for those of you without ski experience, when a pump is out of whack, you get pretty much no speed, and it can be noisy).

I'm concerned, though, that it's the engine. In the final death throes, it sounded more engine-y than pump-y to me, but it's hard to tell for sure. I don't know that I can really prove it, but I have my suspicions that getting water in the engine and it sitting like that for 12-18 hours caused damage that wasn't immediately apparent. Maybe after it sat for a week, corrosion set or something and caused a failure. All I know for sure is that I had never had a single problem with the ski until the throttle position sensor issue, and now, after what should have been a simple fix, I've had nothing but problems. The common thread seems to me to be that everything is shitting the bed after this particular shop touched it.

If it does turn out to be the engine, what recourse do I have? I really think it's this shop's fault, but if they balk at fixing it, I don't really know that I can do anything about it. I'm sure as shit not going to pay them any more.


(Edit: I take that back...I did have an issue one time when a friend flipped it over. I took it to the dealer, and they flushed the fuel system...said that there was air trapped somewhere. It ran fine after that.)

[Edited on May 30, 2011 at 7:02 PM. Reason : ]

5/30/2011 6:59:49 PM

^do you have any documentation(work order, receipt, etc) about the pump being installed wrong that caused the ski to fill with water?

5/30/2011 10:25:58 PM

nothing written. i have documentation that the pump was rebuilt, but nothing about the lines being accidentally swapped.

The owner is the one who fixed it after it almost sank, though. That cause of it nearly sinking (when I ran it) isn't in dispute.

5/30/2011 10:30:38 PM

have u run a compression check yet?

5/30/2011 10:32:51 PM

kinda tough to run a compression check when it won't turn over

5/30/2011 10:35:21 PM

^

5/30/2011 10:45:52 PM

Glad you're getting fucked. Have fun with that shit box. But wait you have the money to what you want so scrap it and buy another one from another dealer.

5/30/2011 11:59:02 PM

^ Why the fuck would anyone be that fucking mean? You people are something else...

Duke, sounds like you are being way to linient with them in regards to the matter, and you're getting screwed because of it... I'd be furious if I was in your situation, let alone dealing with half the shit you have just gone through...

[Edited on May 31, 2011 at 2:28 AM. Reason : .]

5/31/2011 2:27:53 AM

they were slow over the winter and decided to rip you off to help pay their bills.

this is why i ALWAYS do my own work.

I had a transmission go out in my jeep and paid someone else to fix it because i didn't have time... 6 months later the clutch blows up on me taking out my new transmission too.

5/31/2011 8:22:00 AM

This is a tough call. It seems like if you keep going back to this particular shop you will keep getting screwed. But you've already dumped a bunch of money into it. It almost seems like an all-or-nothing deal. Either go to another shop and take a monetary loss (just to save the frustration of dealing with this current shop more) or threaten legal action on the one that screwed you.

5/31/2011 11:10:43 AM

^^^Follow his chit chat ticket thread newb

5/31/2011 11:26:03 AM

Seriously if you have any legal friends or any access to a lawyer through your job I'd have them draft up a letter on your behalf. I won't tell you what it should say because the legal people are pretty good at that but... lets just say my fiance got a new transmission from pep-boys in her suzuki for free thanks to a letter from a friend of hers.

5/31/2011 11:34:33 AM

It's not that place on Jimmies Creek Dr is it?

5/31/2011 12:00:54 PM

Quote :

"they were slow over the winter and decided to rip you off to help pay their bills. "

That's what I think, too.

Quote :

"This is a tough call. It seems like if you keep going back to this particular shop you will keep getting screwed. But you've already dumped a bunch of money into it. It almost seems like an all-or-nothing deal. Either go to another shop and take a monetary loss (just to save the frustration of dealing with this current shop more) or threaten legal action on the one that screwed you."

Yeah, that's pretty much it. I want them to fix it, because I kinda think it's their fault. I'm not looking to spend any more money with them if they won't, though. I'll either sell it as-is and eat the loss, or I'll have someone else put a motor in it (or maybe take a stab at doing it myself over the winter, as I have time here and there).


I didn't know if anyone had any bright ideas about how to approach this other aside from taking legal action, or if not, then what the best approach would be in terms of taking legal action.

Also, am I being reasonable in thinking that it's likely their fault for the engine seizing (if that is indeed what happened...obviously it's their fault if it's the pump that seized)? I mean, it's clearly their fault that it nearly sank and got water in the engine. It ran fine immediately after getting all the water out, but then after sitting for a week, it failed.

5/31/2011 6:31:26 PM

It seems as a first step is hauling it back in and talking to them in as calm a manner as possible. People sometimes surprise you. Eating the loss or paying more money are last resorts. If simple negotiating doesn't seem to get them to listen then I'm sure at that point realizing having to go to court is going to be more costly than fixing your ski (or will it?).

5/31/2011 7:24:15 PM

Quote :

"It seems as a first step is hauling it back in and talking to them in as calm a manner as possible. People sometimes surprise you."

Yeah, that's what I'm going to try tomorrow. I'm more concerned about what to do if that fails.

5/31/2011 7:28:40 PM

If that fails you do have legal aid through the airforce (if i'm not mistaken) right?

A formal letter from an attorney (especially one with a govt seal) will get them shitting bricks and offering you head before anything goes to court.

5/31/2011 7:41:58 PM

USMC

...but I don't know that base legal will get involved in that sort of thing. My guess is "no", but I can ask.

5/31/2011 7:44:35 PM

Well, I see why it's seized, now. It ain't the pump.

The #3 cylinder is gone...the spark plug has the electrode smashed in, with some other little piece of metal jammed in beside it. The real pièce de résistance, out of what I've seen so far without really tearing into anything, is that the top of the #3 piston is canted at about a 30-degree angle.

I would guess that one side of the piston skirt failed, and that the piston then came to rest with the other side of the skirt wedged against the conrod (or the remnants thereof). I'm sure that if that happened, the conrod is trashed, the cylinder wall is gouged all to hell, and it wouldn't surprise me if it bent the crank. In other words, I doubt there will be any rebuilding of this engine...it'll take a new longblock.

Fortunately, they aren't TOO expensive, although it's probably beyond me to install it, and certainly beyond me within any remotely acceptable period of time (like, there's no way I'd even be able to start on it within the next few months).

5/31/2011 9:07:11 PM

Quote :

"but I don't know that base legal will get involved in that sort of thing. My guess is "no", but I can ask."

I'd give them a try. I used base legal for a couple issues that were out of the ordinary and they seemed happy to help...

5/31/2011 9:21:18 PM

Quote :

"I have my suspicions that getting water in the engine and it sitting like that for 12-18 hours caused damage that wasn't immediately apparent. Maybe after it sat for a week, corrosion set or something and caused a failure."

I'd be worried about that too. It should be pretty obvious if you tear it down to the crank. If there's rust in the bottom end then I'd be looking to tie it to the broken connecting rod (seized bearing?)

I think your engine has oil squirters on the connecting rod itself. Any kind of water down there is going to be a bad thing. As for root cause, you really can't speculate until you get the engine torn down and that's going to involve more time & money unfortunately. Hopefully the shop will take care of you, but I wouldn't hesitate to let them know you're looking into legal action if they don't.

Places like SBT (sbtontheweb.com) will do an engine exchange that comes with a "no fault" warranty. The good thing about that is that if you have a bad oil pump or clogged carb and the next engine fries too they'll let you exchange it for no charge. Not good when you're paying for labor though.

[Edited on June 1, 2011 at 10:50 AM. Reason : l]

6/1/2011 10:49:39 AM

Yeah, I think I could probably do an engine swap on some of the skis from 25 years ago, but this one is a little more complicated (though not as bad as, say, a new supercharged 4-stroke).

6/1/2011 10:58:58 AM

god the seadoo powered g(X)p1300s are killer fast....

and i mean that in the literal sense. first time i rode one i jumped on the throttle pretty quickly and sent myself flying off the back of the thing.

6/1/2011 11:21:44 AM

Duke, was the shop an authorized dealer or repair shop or just a local marine service? I spent almost 2 summers dealing with shady mechanics on my GTXs and losing countless riding days due to them being in the shop only to find out they made it worse than it originally was. I refused payment to the last guy because he left me with one that barely got up to speed and another that was DOA. He called several times asking for his money but I told him I only pay when the job is done right and he made it worse. Finally he gave up and I haven't seen him sense. That being said, I was forced to take them almost an hour away to an authorized service center and had them torn down and rebuilt correctly. Wish I would have just done that the first time.

Good luck with your troubles, I know you love riding that thing.

6/1/2011 11:58:23 AM

not sure if he was an authorized repair facility or not. probably not.


I took the ski by the shop...he was sympathetic, but didn't volunteer any concession until I asked him what he thought caused the failure...he listed a couple of things (lubrication failure, reed valve failure), and then I said "Or what about corrosion causing, say, a bearing failure, or a reed valve failure, or a ring failure, etc, due to it nearly sinking and getting a bunch of water in the engine a week earlier?"

He then said something like "Yeah, I get what you're saying..." and then started maneuvering to cut the costs on the repair (all parts at his cost, discounted labor rate). Still, assuming it needs a new shortblock and not just a top end rebuild, it's going to come up to pretty close to $2500. I'm not very inclined to spend that much on the repair...I think I'd rather just sell it with a blown engine and be done with it. Being that I can't pin the problem conclusively on the shop's fuck-ups, I'd be willing to split that $2500 with him, but I'm not looking to spend significantly more on repairs in 2 weeks than I paid for the ski to begin with...and if I was going to, I'd be hesitant to spend it with this guy after the shit that I've dealt with up to this point with him (he'd have to offer me a hell of a deal and guarantee that only he would touch the ski, not his knuckledragging shop help.)


He says he knows a guy in AZ who has a brand new GP1300R engine in the crate and might be willing to sell it for dirt cheap. I don't really know why anyone would sell it far enough below market value to make it that attractive of a deal, but I figure I'll see what the shop owner can come up with.

The other option is to actually spend MORE money and build a GPRXP...I mean, a GPR with a blown engine, perfect hull, and brand new pump practically begs for it. I don't know how much it would cost, though...there's a limit as to how much I'll spend on a damn jet ski.

6/2/2011 6:13:34 PM

I'd hate to see the carnage if it had failed at WOT instead of probably the bottom 1/3 of the tach.

6/3/2011 12:06:58 AM

WOW that thing is fucked

6/3/2011 12:27:02 AM

Small claims court?

6/3/2011 12:29:01 AM

Thought about it. Three problems, though.

1. Previous experience with small claims court is that if someone doesn't care about a black mark on their credit, a small claims judgment in your favor is pretty much worthless. Who knows whether that would be the case here.

2. A small-claims court judge isn't a gearhead, or a mechanic, or a mechanical engineer. He (or she, when I was there about a year ago) will be totally lost and disinterested in any sort of technical discussion or debate about the failure of the engine. It would probably come down to my word against the shop owner's. I think the burden of proof would be on me (although again, last time, the judge didn't seem strictly concerned with the rule of law), and it would be my word against his. Now, I'm no dummy, and I have a degree in mechanical engineering, but I'm pretty sure the judge would be likely to view the business owner who deals daily with watercraft repair as the credible "expert".

3. I was pretty strongly convinced that this was probably a result of a bunch of water getting into the engine a week earlier (which was very clearly the shop's fault). Now that I have it apart, I'm not so sure. It looks like the connecting rod is intact, as best as I can see. It definitely looks intact down at the crankshaft journal. I don't see any corrosion anywhere inside (although there could be some in a bearing or the reed valves, which would be where it would be likely to cause a failure). I don't see any scorched areas on the cylinder. The ring is broken, and the piston is melted, particularly on the front and rear, oriented longitudinally (as opposed to the intake or exhaust sides).

That leads me to consider the possibility that the ring broke, causing me to lose the #3 cylinder and a lot of power, but not immediately have a catastrophic failure...but then have it rapidly deteriorate once the piston started to fail as a result, with the engine seizing shortly thereafter.

Now, what would cause the ring to break, I don't know...and obviously it's possible that the ring was fine until something else broke, and that the ring was then just a victim of the ensuing carnage.


I was kind of expecting to find corrosion and a thrown rod, but that's not what I'm seeing. It makes me me less convinced (though still suspicious) that the shop is responsible for the failure.

6/3/2011 12:50:01 AM

do you think maybe you just rode the thing too damn hard?

i don't know anything about jet skis, but i know what a lot of extended WOT will do to a 2 stroke outboard

[Edited on June 3, 2011 at 6:31 AM. Reason : addfd]

6/3/2011 6:30:47 AM

at first glance I thought you had a picture of a dirty Butterfly Valve

6/3/2011 7:49:25 AM

LOLOL...really does look like one, doesn't it?

6/3/2011 3:34:36 PM

Yeah... actually when i saw the pic i said? hmmm i thought they had reed valves not some kind of weird butterfly assembly.

6/3/2011 3:49:59 PM