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hgtran
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anybody on here has any experience with buying gold as an investment? How does that work? will they just send the gold to your house?

7/20/2011 9:50:47 AM

Mr. Joshua
we want chilly willy
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I'd say just open a brokerage account and buy an ETF.

7/20/2011 9:54:30 AM

mootduff
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7/20/2011 9:54:50 AM

y0willy0
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geniusboy can help you if you plan on buying your gold with bitcoins

7/20/2011 10:29:43 AM

Pikey
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Isn't kinda dumb to buy gold when it is at the highest it's ever been?

(It's at the highest its ever been right now, right?)

7/20/2011 10:32:15 AM

BobbyDigital
Thots and Prayers
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My cleaning lady was talking about gold last week.

That confirmed what I already knew.

7/20/2011 10:33:02 AM

mofopaack
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Quote :
"Isn't kinda dumb to buy gold when it is at the highest it's ever been?

(It's at the highest its ever been right now, right?)"



Thats why you buy stocks of mining companys. Higher price of gold = higher earnings (generally)

7/20/2011 10:42:51 AM

y0willy0
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or if you believe rumors that say gold will be $5000 by the end of the year.

7/20/2011 10:51:48 AM

d357r0y3r
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See this thread: http://www.thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=579908

Some of the same people saying gold is a terrible purchase in this thread were saying the same thing 500 dollars/oz ago, so I wouldn't consider them credible. BobbyDigital was literally marking the top of the bubble then, just as he is now, so make your own judgment.

There's a number of websites out there that offer delivery of physical bullion. There are some places (such as the ones that Glenn Beck advertises for) that are ripping people off with 30-50% markups. I use Kitco (http://www.kitco.com), and they've always been easy to work with.

I think we're likely to see gold get up to 1800 by October of this year. All of the fundamentals are there. Competitive devaluation is still going on, and gold is still a good hedge.

As far as ETFs go, that's what I would use if you plan to take profits along the way. Miners are a little higher risk that bullion/ETFs, but you can also get a bigger yield.

Also, there's quite a bit of upside in silver still. The market has been manipulated, margin rate hikes have been used to suppress the price, and I'm sure other measures will be taken, but silver in real terms has a ways to go.

7/20/2011 2:05:37 PM

hgtran
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Quote :
"Some of the same people saying gold is a terrible purchase in this thread were saying the same thing 500 dollars/oz ago, so I wouldn't consider them credible. BobbyDigital was literally marking the top of the bubble then, just as he is now, so make your own judgment."


that's pretty much what I felt when I read their responses.

7/20/2011 2:44:32 PM

ncstatepimp
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http://www.thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=579908
Quote :
"I pushed gold pretty hard about 4 years ago.

now that my maid is talking about buying it, you know it's well past a worthy investment. The challenge is finding the next rapid growth investment vehicle (aka bubble).

11/12/2009 10:35:37 AM"


Quote :
"My cleaning lady was talking about gold last week.

That confirmed what I already knew.

7/20/2011 10:33:02 AM"


This made me LOL

[Edited on July 20, 2011 at 3:18 PM. Reason : Link]

[Edited on July 20, 2011 at 3:19 PM. Reason : Link]

7/20/2011 3:17:49 PM

BobbyDigital
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hahahaha


sadly, that sounds about right. Nice lady. very trustworthy. not too bright.

7/20/2011 4:02:30 PM

ncsuallday
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Quote :
"will they just send the gold to your house?"


bahaha, no.

7/20/2011 4:54:52 PM

d357r0y3r
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^Actually, yes, certain companies will do exactly that.

^^Sounds like your cleaning lady might have a better understanding of basic economics than you. That's gotta be a tough pill to swallow.

7/20/2011 5:00:26 PM

bonerjamz 04
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i suggest that you consult an expert

7/20/2011 5:12:15 PM

BobbyDigital
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^^

sure bud, that's why she cleans my house.

it's fucking retarded to hoard gold. You can't spend it. You have to secure it, store it, and you sure as hell aren't going to get market value for it if you try to sell it unless you also happen to be a broker.

Investing in an ETF is one thing, but it isn't truly investing in gold, since the value of the shares is not equivalent to the actual bullion holdings of the fund.

7/20/2011 9:59:56 PM

TreeTwista10
Laugh, Think, Cry
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and people laughed when i bought a bunch of chains and shit when it was like 400/oz

7/20/2011 10:19:51 PM

ClassicMixup
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1) Is this a troll thread?

2) What instrument are you trying to buy through?

3)Figure out what everyone else is doing and do the opposite (go short)

7/21/2011 12:03:44 AM

face
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Quote :
" I have been 100% focused on what is likely the biggest bubble in the history of mankind. The fiat U.S. dollar and all income streams related to it. Of course, the inverse to this monumental bubble are gold and silver and the commodities necessary to everyday life (food and energy) and as such I have been wildly bullish on those particular items. This is the most amazingly easy trade I have ever stumbled upon because it takes some serious macro thinking and a grasp of financial history to understand the precious metals markets. These are two things Wall Street is not very good at. Even better, Wall Street is full of ego maniacs with lots of money. So all a lot of these clowns do is look at the price charts of gold and silver and the childish thought “bubble” pops into their clouded heads. Of course it’s very tempting to just look at the charts and think this if you don’t understand what is really driving their ascent. The popping of the largest bubble in human history. The fiat, counterfeit, and immoral U.S. dollar standard. "


http://www.gainesvillecoins.com/ is a highly regarded, reputable website.

Wherever you go be conscious of how much over the spot price you are paying.

If you want paper gold buy an ETF. IAU is the cheapest expense ratio that I'm aware of at the moment.

7/22/2011 10:36:19 PM

Tarun
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I came to ask about http://www.gainesvillecoins.com/ but face already posted about it. Did any of you folks buy from this site?

[Edited on December 28, 2011 at 10:55 AM. Reason : canadian gold coins]

12/28/2011 10:47:23 AM

skywalkr
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You can invest in the mining companies if you don't want to go the ETF route. Makes buying and selling a lot easier than buying the actual gold and it follows the same principle that it goes up with gold goes up (typically). I don't actually do this for the record but I also don't have a bunch of disposable income to be playing around with investments.

12/28/2011 11:08:30 AM

Chance
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Jesus Christ, don't listen to ^ guy. Buying stock in the mining companies is not the same as buying the metal itself for a multitude of reasons.

12/28/2011 11:12:04 AM

skywalkr
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Well yeah it isn't the same thing but it still follows the gold market. The closer you get to the actual gold the less you are paying other people to buy and sell the actual product for you. Buying and selling gold at market price is a whole lot more difficult than buying/selling stock and with an ETF you are basically paying someone to buy/sell the gold for you. I don't really care if you buy it or not, just an alternative option.

12/28/2011 11:22:29 AM

Chance
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You have no fucking idea what you are talking about. Please go get educated about the precious metals complex and come back and let us know how what you've posted so far is just brain dead stupid.

12/28/2011 11:24:49 AM

skywalkr
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Another very informative post. Since I don't really care and being viewed as right or wrong in your eyes means very little to me, I won't waste my time discussion such matters with a stranger on the internet. Carry on.

12/28/2011 11:36:15 AM

Chance
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Look, guys like you need to be called out. You're in here spouting investment advice with nary a fucking clue. If you did, rather than attempt to bow out quietly, you'd offer a modicum of something to support your case.

I'll take the fact that you aren't doing that as recognition that you really are clueless about what you are posting.

12/28/2011 11:39:18 AM

skywalkr
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Fine by me. Like I said, not really worth my time to try and convince you of anything especially when you don't post anything constructive.

12/28/2011 11:42:09 AM

Chance
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There is nothing for you to convince me of. I know more about this space than you do. I've been studying it for longer and investing in it for longer. How many more times are you going to post without actually saying anything?

12/28/2011 11:45:25 AM

qntmfred
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save the bs for somewhere else chance

12/28/2011 1:12:39 PM

Solinari
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spouting... nary... modicum

umad bro?

12/28/2011 1:22:00 PM

wolfpackgrrr
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That or studying for the GRE

12/28/2011 1:41:58 PM

Tarun
almost
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lol this thread went downhill after my post

ok now tell me people where you buy your gold from? any experience with that particular website?

12/28/2011 1:46:12 PM

Slave Famous
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Here’s my two cents, which is probably worth two squirts of piss to most of you, but I digress. Buying gold as a tangible commodity, ie, actually buying the physical bars of gold, is silly unless you’re Auric Goldfinger or Scrooge McDuck. As others have mentioned…what the fuck are you gonna do with it?

Now, assuming that even barking up that tree in the first place was an issue of miscommunication between the OP and previous repliers, we can look at the two options presented by Kenny Skywalker above; investing in the metal itself vs investing in the company that mines the metals. The metal companies are like any other company that trades publicly in that there are a myriad of factors that affect their trading price, and the trading price of whatever metal they mine is probably going to be pretty low on the list. Corporate structure, competitors, market share, state of the industry…all things you look at with any investment, and these companies are no different. You’re not investing in the metal, just as you’re not investing in iPods when you buy Apple. Only invest with these companies if you’ve done your due diligence, not because “Hey, gold is high, lets buy some stock of the company who mines it.”

Investing in gold, the commodity, as a long term investment can work, but only if you’re willing to sacrifice some certainty and liquidity in the short term. When I started here, one of my first projects was to track the price of gold from 1980-present (then 2007) both from a long term hold and short term hold perspective, and report on any either intraday or LTH patterns. Why 1980? Hmm, I wonder.



My goal was to determine whether the mid 2000’s surge was destined to dip back to post ’80 levels, or remain strong. I guessed right, which is probably while I’m still here, as we’ve made a nice chunk on AU since then. But I got lucky. I was 22 and had little idea what I doing. Gold could’ve just as easily dipped back into the 3-400 range.

My advice to anyone who gives a shit would be to avoid investing in precious metals unless you have a firm grasp of the industry. I know more now than I did then, but I’m still wary of putting anything significant into an area I’m not extremely well informed in. In short, do your homework, or run the risk of getting proper fucked.

12/28/2011 2:23:46 PM

Solinari
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tl;dr

12/28/2011 4:26:53 PM

Dr Pepper
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^^

12/28/2011 4:33:56 PM

HockeyRoman
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Think of gold (or any other precious metal) as a hedge or as an insurance policy. Don't be that guy that dumps his entire wealth into gold thinking that the world is going to end tomorrow.

12/28/2011 4:41:32 PM

Slave Famous
Become Wrath
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I like how the one relevant post get shit on while the gifs and futurama memes are lauded. Says a lot about the collective intelligence of this board.

12/28/2011 4:52:36 PM

Chance
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Quote :
"save the bs for somewhere else chance"

It's not BS. The guy sauntered into the thread like he knows something and dropped misleading information. He had several opportunities to present even a glimmer of evidence to back up his statements but instead chose to grovel over some internet asshole that called him out on his retarded tripe. Look, I didn't want to do this because I have other more interesting things to deal with buts lets contemplate what he posted.

Quote :
"and it follows the same principle that it goes up with gold goes up (typically)"

and again:
Quote :
"Well yeah it isn't the same thing but it still follows the gold market."


The fuck? Ok, lets compare the GLD etf (for simplicity) to the most popular/common etf tracking the miners, the GDX. For those playing at home that don't know shit about the PM space, the GDX is:
The Index provides exposure to publicly traded companies worldwide involved primarily in the mining for gold, representing a diversified blend of small, mid and large-capitalization stocks.
Alright, how do GLD and GDX compare over the past month...
GLD: -9.34%
GDX: -10.91%

ugh batman, Chance mayhaps might be the true fuckhead here. But hang on a damn minute, lets zoom out a bit, how about over the past 3 months:
GLD: -3.29%
GDX: -8.16%

Hmm...well, 5% really isn't that big of a deal is it? How about year over year
GLD: +10.08%
GDX: -18.03%

HOLE EE FUCK. Thats...why that is a significant difference there. That, that is no good if you just took this clowns advice and thought you were "investing in Gold".

Well...pffftt...ummm...what about the GDXJ, what about that one, huh. That one is gold miners. Ok, yoy:
GLD: +10.08%
GDXJ: -42.45%

.................................

Well, umm, what about individual mining companies. Alright.
AUY: 11.52% (+ a 1.4% dividend)
NG: -45.17%
AAU: -43.67%
THM: -61.34%

And so on.

Investing in the miners is like throwing darts into a mine field. The space is filled with all sorts of snake oil salesman employing pump and dump schemes and all manner of crooks out to cash in on the ordinary investors stupidity. Thats before you even contemplate the investment case that they have to pay capital costs (hello oil prices and inflation) to get the shit out of the ground.

Quote :
"ok now tell me people where you buy your gold from? any experience with that particular website?"


Why do you want to take delivery of physical? Do you really envision a situation where you're scraping off shavings of it to facilitate some transaction? Do you have a means of defending your bars from marauders?

[Edited on December 28, 2011 at 5:01 PM. Reason : a]

12/28/2011 4:58:46 PM

d357r0y3r
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Quote :
"I was 22 and had little idea what I doing. Gold could’ve just as easily dipped back into the 3-400 range. "


If you're just looking at gold price trends in isolation, I could see why you would think that.

The fundamental economic problems that make gold strong have not changed. Central banks are still trashing currencies everywhere. That bodes well for gold, silver, and other precious metals. Metal has been a unit of exchange for a very long time. USD as the world reserve currency will not last forever, and as U.S. hegemony continues to be questioned and eventually fades, you don't want to be long dollars. You want something real that you can hold onto and trade with.

It's true that you can't eat gold. You also can't eat guns and ammo, but you'll want to have both when the global debt crisis comes to a head. It won't be the end of the world, but it's not going to be a fun, cozy transition either. The derivatives market is in the quadrillions of dollars. I believe the derivatives market will eventually go to zero, probably very rapidly. When it does and all the air is sucked out of the room, we'll have entered uncharted territory. Gold may not be worth anything in those uncertain days, but long-term, its scarcity will be recognized and it will be used as a currency again.

12/28/2011 5:06:14 PM

Chance
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What does the size of the derivatives market have to do with anything?

12/28/2011 5:17:23 PM

d357r0y3r
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Every major bank has either direct exposure to the derivatives market, or at least indirect exposure to counterparty risk. Financial "products", when they are correctly recognized as being valueless, are going to leave almost all financial/banking institutions utterly insolvent. The dollar can't (and shouldn't) be resurrected at that point; a major devaluation will occur, i.e. a global, financial rape of citizens by their thug-operated governments.

Banking, at least in its inception, required hard assets. That hasn't been the case for quite a while, but I think a return to real, material backing of bank notes will be necessary to restore faith in the financial system.

[Edited on December 28, 2011 at 5:27 PM. Reason : ]

12/28/2011 5:20:44 PM

Chance
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Quote :
"are going to leave almost all financial/banking institutions utterly insolvent"


This is horseshit. Where do you get this from?

12/28/2011 5:31:43 PM

d357r0y3r
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You know as well as I do what happened in 2008. Nothing has changed.



Without ZIRP, many of these banks are finished. If the Euro dies (which I think is likely in 2012), the Fed is out of tricks aside from mass money creation. What end game are you envisioning that doesn't involve the economy going to shit, resulting in higher crime and general societal unrest? Furthermore, how do these banks not go belly up when it's realized that many of their assets are not real assets at all?

[Edited on December 28, 2011 at 6:01 PM. Reason : Found a more recent chart]

12/28/2011 5:40:22 PM

Chance
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Quote :
" This chart is only good at identifying which banks carry the most risk. "


Does your chart really say that? Are those derivative numbers contracts that the entity has written and will owe someone in the event of a credit event? How do you know? Because zerohedge says so?

Quote :
"Without ZIRP, many of these banks are finished."

I don't disagree..but did you happen to notice something? ZIRP IS HERE AND WILL BE FOR AWHILE.

Quote :
"If the Euro dies (which I think is likely in 2012), the Fed is out of tricks aside from mass money creation"

The fuck? If the ECB doesn't print then sure, banks won't get paid back and that may have some effects on US banks (your task, how much? It's my perception US banks were smart and wound back exposure to Euro sovereigns which caused all the interest rate spiking mess in EU in the first place), but you think it's going to cause some ongoing and lasting problems for us? What? Greece is in a depression, the EU problem was ongoing all year and yet the US still reported ok (for a post credit bubble) numbers.

Quote :
"What end game are you envisioning that doesn't involve the economy going to shit"

Ask your average Japanese how shitty life has been for the past 2 decades after their property bubble meltdown. It isn't like we aren't being productive and going about business as usual.

Quote :
"Furthermore, how do these banks not go belly up when it's realized that many of their assets are not real assets at all?"

Good point man, some anonymous guy on thewolfweb (getting his information from ZH) knows more than the rest of the market...when will those guys realize he is right?


Look, I'm not trying to be a dick here, I generally agree with your basic sentiment about the US economy, I just don't agree that we are guaranteed to go off the cliff. Not yet at least.

12/28/2011 6:13:12 PM

Solinari
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Cristoforo is that you?

12/28/2011 6:45:11 PM

TULIPlovr
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Quote :
"Ask your average Japanese how shitty life has been for the past 2 decades after their property bubble meltdown. It isn't like we aren't being productive and going about business as usual. "


http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2011/02/the-myth-of-japans-lost-decades/71741/

12/28/2011 7:32:33 PM

Chance
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I read down to the straw man he set up, should I really bother continuing to read after that?

12/28/2011 7:34:40 PM

TULIPlovr
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yes

12/28/2011 7:36:58 PM

face
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I can think of 1.2 billion reasons to own physical gold rather than paper gold.

At the moment I still own paper gold, but I think it may be time to consider myself lucky not to have been wiped out and cash them in for physical.

Everything destroyer posted above is correct. We're going down in flames and it could be sooner than later. i've been relaying this info for a few years now and every few months you see a few more people letting reality sink in.

12/29/2011 2:22:56 AM

Solinari
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Honestly, if we ever get to the point where someone needs to use their food stockpiles or gold bars, it won't really matter if you prepared or not.

so you survive a week longer than me? so what.


the flip side has a lot better potential ROI if the apocalypse doesn't actually end up happening.


[Edited on December 29, 2011 at 3:56 PM. Reason : ]

12/29/2011 3:54:36 PM

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