http://www.wavy.com/dpp/news/military/navy-prepares-subs-for-female-officers

A very insightful final paragraph, I might say. Though "vastly outnumbered by men" seems mighty foreboding.

7/24/2011 7:51:26 PM

How will women be able to control themselves around such vast quantities of seamen?

7/24/2011 8:09:37 PM

^ haha i came in here to post that.

Also,

Quote :

" are accustomed to being in the minority and so far they say they hardly feel like outsiders."

being the one of 4 girls in an engineering class does not equal being one of 4 girls in a cramped tin can hundreds of feet under the ocean for months at a time.

[Edited on July 24, 2011 at 8:23 PM. Reason : .]

7/24/2011 8:19:19 PM

I think it's more of an issue of heads, showers, and hot-bunking.

7/24/2011 8:32:44 PM

Out of the 24, how many do you predict will become preggers while on the sub?


6 out of the 24

[Edited on July 24, 2011 at 9:43 PM. Reason : w]

7/24/2011 9:43:00 PM

^ or come off the boat and deposit 25k in a bank account.

7/24/2011 9:46:15 PM

^, ^^ there is probably an element of truth there, but that isn't really a justification for keeping all women off of subs. If it's logistically overly difficult due to the lack of space, then that's another matter.

7/24/2011 10:04:27 PM

7/25/2011 1:54:17 AM

I never thought of that. Getting preggers and having baby on a sub.

If it happens in virtually every other workforce environement, then it will happen on a sub.

7/25/2011 2:19:37 AM

Quote :

"I think it's more of an issue of heads, showers, and hot-bunking."

officers already have separate showers and racks so that's not a problem. One electrician that I work with had female engineers on his boat. He said the women had a sign they would post on the door when they went in the bathroom and it wasn't a big deal.

And I seriously get tired of the pregnancy argument. First off, the women are officers and unplanned pregnancy is much more common among enlisted. (I'm not being a jerk, it's because junior enlisted people are 19 years old and more likely to make poor decisions.) And getting caught fraternizing would pretty much kill an officer's career.

Sure, unplanned pregnancy occasionally happens. But it's not more common than other medical ailments that get people disqualified from sub duty. Maybe we should stop letting men on submarines because they're more likely to get kidney stones

7/25/2011 4:13:32 PM

All around bad idea.

7/25/2011 4:28:20 PM

Could we just make one ballistic sub all women?

7/25/2011 4:48:55 PM

Quote :

"Sure, unplanned pregnancy occasionally happens. But it's not more common than other medical ailments that get people disqualified from sub duty. Maybe we should stop letting men on submarines because they're more likely to get kidney stones."

Do kidney stones in a male sailor potentially cause the Navy a 1.5 year headache?

Women are allowed a full-year of shore duty after birth as a general Navy policy, and aren't allowed to be underway after the 20th week of pregnancy. That's 17 months, potentially.

The former could be restricted for submariners, but the accommodations the Navy will have to make are pretty ridiculous when we're talking about a service that supposedly values combat-readiness. If you value combat readiness, you don't look for members who can cause such a disruption so easily.

Some medical officers have also brought up the unknown of fetal development while underway on a sub. The air and environment are different, and the effects are not known.

7/25/2011 4:57:56 PM

oh, is this just officers? that, in and of itself, will mitigate a most (not all) of the issues, just as Nerdchick said. Now, the box that it opens (so to speak) might be a different deal, but I don't think it'll be a big deal to have a handful of female sub officers (I say that having never been a submariner).

7/25/2011 5:28:54 PM

So, if I understand correctly, in a few years we will have a handful of female officers commanding subs.

...is there just one officer per sub? If not, then why would the other male officers not also be subject to the same concerns? I mean, people are saying there are separate officer quarters right? Would they have to have an all-female-officers sub?

And is there just something funny about the mental picture of a woman commanding a sub full of 19 year old boys? I know I'm already walking down the sexist path here, but really, the possibilities for media spinoffs are too great here!

7/25/2011 8:10:42 PM

well as long as the gays get sent in with the women there should be no prob. amirite

7/25/2011 9:16:52 PM

There aren't enough women to man an all-woman submarine. Not to mention the training and experience necessary for the crew (you can't just promote women to higher ranks to fill billets around the ship). You'll need a lot of time to obtain a gradient of ranks capable of running the sub - unless you just force/speed promoted women for the hell of it, which would be a trainwreck idea.

And there are not enough subs to have simply one women per.

Also, with everyone addressing the idea of men getting over-horny, no one seems to have posited the idea of the women getting a little bit blue-vag'd. Won't that be detrimental in a multitude of ways even if the fraternization is consensual, if it were to happen?

7/25/2011 9:24:13 PM

I thought it was well understood that there is no sex in the champagne room submarine

7/25/2011 9:42:13 PM

Coming from someone who served aboard a Navy vessel for 5 years and dealt with plenty of female officers in the Nuclear Engineering field. "Fraternizing killing one's career" is a true statement. It never stopped them though. Especially since these will all be nuclear trained officers, its bound to happen due to the close proximity of enlisted and officers in the nuclear community.

Since these will be sub officers, can you really tell me that you mature that much from 19-20 till you are 23-24 which majority of these Ensigns will be? Age isnt an issue.

"Women running subs in a few years"...you just dont put O5 on in a "few years", O1 to O2 is two years, then another two to O3 then you must be selected for O4. so command will be a lot longer than a "few years"

I think this will eventually work out, but will be tough, just like when they let women on surface ships.

It sucked a lot when they caught the pregnancy bug right before deployment, but at times it was pleasant to have a females perspective on issues rather than just a males.

and to comment on the women staying on board for a certain period of time...since its a submarine and they will be nuclear trained...they will be required to wear TLDs. If you are pregos, the navy is pretty quick to remove you from an area that requires you to wear a TLD. just an FYI

[Edited on July 25, 2011 at 10:02 PM. Reason : yea]

7/25/2011 9:58:27 PM

^Holly Graf is a perfect example of how fast the Navy is willing to promote women into command of a ship, regardless of qualifications.

7/25/2011 10:11:53 PM

http://www.newsobserver.com/2010/05/07/471122/ncsu-women-get-sub-duty.html#ixzz0nE8ZSDZC

Quote :

"NCSU women get sub duty RALEIGH -- Two members of N.C. State University's Naval ROTC program are among the first women selected to serve aboard Navy submarines. The women, Midshipman Megan Bittner, 22, and Officer Candidate Karen Achtyl, 25, received word of their new assignments on Monday after an interview with a four-star admiral in Washington. It came just days after the Department of the Navy announced it would change its policy that forbade women to serve on submarines. ... Magna cum laude diplomas Bittner and Achtyl will be commissioned as ensigns in the U.S. Navy on May 14. A day later, they will graduate from NCSU magna cum laude. Both women will receive bachelor's degrees in chemical engineering. They will then head to Charleston, S.C., for training at the Navy's nuclear power school for six months, followed by six months at a nuclear prototype site for hands-on submarine experience. They will finish training at the Naval Submarine School in Groton, Conn., and receive their first assignment aboard a submarine in the fall of 2011."

7/25/2011 10:13:24 PM

Quote :

"the box that it opens (so to speak)"

7/25/2011 10:15:59 PM

The gal on the left looks like a total freak. Gal on the right will do ok.

7/25/2011 10:25:41 PM

Being a gay man on a submarine must be fun

7/25/2011 11:55:54 PM

Actually, nobody gives a fuck unless you wear it on your sleeve. Kind of like in society, in general

7/26/2011 1:33:33 AM

Quote :

"and to comment on the women staying on board for a certain period of time...since its a submarine and they will be nuclear trained...they will be required to wear TLDs. If you are pregos, the navy is pretty quick to remove you from an area that requires you to wear a TLD. just an FYI"

That just means the 17 months of uselessness turns into 22ish months, per child.

[Edited on July 26, 2011 at 4:15 AM. Reason : a]

7/26/2011 4:11:49 AM

so how many officers does a single sub have?

7/26/2011 8:07:12 AM

Between 12 to (sometimes) 20.

7/26/2011 9:00:02 AM

So even if we allow women officers onto subs they'll be sharing the same bathrooms and beds with men, as in, the other men officers.

Is this correct?

7/26/2011 9:36:28 AM

We had coed bathrooms at State back when I was in the dorms.

There is nothing quite like having a hot chick lay a stinker in the toilet and then walk out staring at you. You never quite look at those girls the same anymore.

[Edited on July 26, 2011 at 10:12 AM. Reason : ghh]

7/26/2011 10:12:21 AM

Not the same Staterooms or Racks, only the Heads, but the access would be controlled based on the time.

7/26/2011 11:50:01 AM

so women would still be hotbunking with men?

7/26/2011 12:24:48 PM

Even on a sub, officers don't hotbunk. That's only junior enlisted.

7/26/2011 1:57:08 PM

Quote :

"Not the same Staterooms or Racks, only the Heads, but the access would be controlled based on the time."

*facepalm

I guess this is a symptom of the culture we (submariners) live in.

Our lives our so secret onboard that the public doesn't understand what we do nor how we do it.

Another symptom of the generation that is coming out of college right now is that not even when words are clear is understanding gained. (see above few posts)

Maybe I should have used textese?

7/26/2011 3:33:49 PM

Quote :

"^Holly Graf Barack Obama is a perfect example of how fast the NavyUS is willing to promote women into command of a ship country, regardless of qualifications."

7/26/2011 3:35:54 PM

I know both of the State girls picked to go on subs, and though a conventional SWO, I've dealt with a fair number of Nuke SWOs. Some are good, some are bad, just like any other community. Coming from a FFG, with only a couple female officers and no female enlisted, there is some fraternization that goes on between the female officers and male officers and enlisted. But fraternization actually isn't as big of an issue as it is on fully-integrated ships.

That being said, there will situations and their accompanying reports that go up and up.

7/26/2011 7:10:34 PM

^^ I'm sure that was funny and/or relevant in your head before you posted it

[Edited on July 27, 2011 at 9:19 AM. Reason : ]

7/27/2011 9:19:37 AM

what a non-issue.

7/27/2011 3:42:28 PM

Quote :

"*facepalm I guess this is a symptom of the culture we (submariners) live in. Our lives our so secret onboard that the public doesn't understand what we do nor how we do it. Another symptom of the generation that is coming out of college right now is that not even when words are clear is understanding gained. (see above few posts) Maybe I should have used textese?"

I just wish you understood how little sense you made at this point.

8/2/2011 11:52:19 AM

I knew both of the NCSU chicks. They were in my senior year CHE classes.

8/2/2011 11:58:58 AM

Quote :

"OUR SO SECRET"

8/2/2011 12:03:18 PM

a wholly-woman submarine could shoot baked-good supply torpedos at other friendly submarines.

8/4/2011 10:24:07 AM

b

3/4/2012 7:24:00 PM

i say let the women beasts fight. put em on the front lines. in america there is no such thing as a 'man' or 'woman'

those terms should be outright abolished IMHO if we want to reach our full utopian status as liberated creatures from oppression.

3/4/2012 9:11:05 PM

I think women are stupid apes just like men, if slightly less violent overall, so I see no increased harm in putting them in our submersible swimming metal cigars.


edit: If only there were some way their reproductive capacities could be curbed, perhaps controlled...

[Edited on March 5, 2012 at 9:07 AM. Reason : .]

3/5/2012 9:04:47 AM

women are sexist. they have reproducing abilities that men don't have

OCCUPY WOMEN STREET

3/5/2012 1:28:47 PM

Quote :

"Female U.S. submariners investigated for fraud Two of the first women to be chosen by the U.S. Navy to serve on submarines have had their duties reassigned and are being investigated for fraud, according to U.S. Navy officials. U.S. Navy investigators are looking at whether the two women committed fraud by claiming excessive expenses while they trained for their submarine duty, according to Cmdr. Monica Rousselow, a spokesman for the Navy's submarine forces. The investigation began in February. While details of the case and the officers names are not being released because the investigation is ongoing, a U.S. Navy official with knowledge of the matter said the two women are suspected of misrepresenting information about leases in their travel documents so their reimbursement pay was higher than it should have been. Originally, a third female officer was being investigated but she was cleared of wrongdoing three weeks ago, Rousselow said. Both officers have been temporarily reassigned to duties at the U.S. Naval submarine base at Kings Bay, Georgia, until the investigation is over, according to Rousselow. The three officers were among a group of 24 women who were the first to be assigned to U.S. submarines in 2010 after a high-profile change of policy by the Navy that reversed the ban on women being part of the "silent service." After being selected, the women went through an intensive 15-month submarine officer training program, which includes nuclear power school, submarine training and the Submarine Officer Basic Course. The first of the 24 started their assignments on submarines in November and December of last year, Rousselow said."

http://security.blogs.cnn.com/2012/05/01/female-u-s-submariners-investigated-for-fraud/

Probably putting us all at risk by blowing tax payer money on shopbop.com.

5/1/2012 3:34:43 PM

They'll be using targeting computers to order shit from Zappos.

5/1/2012 3:51:03 PM