The only "non-violent" movements that have ever succeeded did so because there was a legitimate threat of violence if the peaceful protesters weren't acknowledged. Gandhi and MLK would agree, and were successful only because they were the least-worst alternative to those in power. The English riots are a perfect example. No one gave a shit about those chavs til they started stealing sneakers and torching buses. Now they're on the news. Success!

8/9/2011 3:33:36 PM

agree

8/9/2011 3:37:28 PM

The burned out shopkeepers are sad indeed, but if a few torched carpet shops are what it takes to give voice to a massive disenfranchised portion of the population and strike a little fear into those in power, so be it. Fire cleanses. It keeps everyone in check.

Besides, if the English hadn't already given up all of their rights they could have gone Korean shopkeeper on those faggots.

8/9/2011 3:42:24 PM

Success = getting on the news?

8/9/2011 3:42:32 PM

In political terms, absolutely.

What's on the news frames the discussion of a nation. Newscasters hold more power than any politician.

8/9/2011 3:44:53 PM

Instead of burning down small businesses, they should be burning down buildings inhabited by the investment banks.

8/9/2011 3:49:28 PM

If these riots result in some type of legislative change, then you could say they were effective

Currently however, the only effect they've had has been destroying their own community with misdirected anger. You hate that the cops killed a man? So you get revenge on them by burning down some store owned by somebody who has nothing to do with the cops killing a guy?

I fail to see the "Success" you claim in the OP

8/9/2011 3:49:41 PM

The Prime Minister has already called for the Legislature to reconvene. As everyone seeks "the root of the problem", there will be fresh welfare checks in the mail in no time and new youth centers built all over.

It doesn't even have to be a formal protest. Take Hurricane Katrina. A bunch of ghettos get drowned out. No one gives a shit. Why should they? But as soon as a few photos like this start popping up above and to the left of Katie Couric's perfectly blonde-hair-framed face you can bet Bush's folksy ass was on the ground in no time flat.



The lesson, of course, is that if you're ever in a natural disaster, the FIRST thing you should do is torch some buildings to make sure the news helicopters get good footage for the 6pm news. The chop-chop-chop of Sky 5 overhead means help and beneficial legislation are on the way!

8/9/2011 4:12:51 PM

I heard that people were burning and looting junk. I didn't hear they were protesting for political change.

Just goes to show... you don't decide what history remembers you for.

8/9/2011 4:21:27 PM

Think about the stimulus that these riots will create. There will be so much destroyed property to fix!

Britain discovers that shrinking government is a lot harder than expanding it

Quote :

"In Britain, government spending is now so high, accounting for more than half of the economy, that it is increasingly difficult to distinguish the private sector from the public. Many supposedly private companies are as dependent on government largesse as welfare recipients are, and much of the money with which the government pays them is borrowed. The nation’s budget deficit in 2010, in the wake of the financial crisis, was 10.4 percent of GDP, after being 12.5 percent in 2009; even before the crisis, the country had managed to balance its budget for only three years out of the previous 30. Deficits are like smoking: difficult to give up. They can be cut only at the cost of genuine hardship, for many people will have become dependent upon them for their livelihood. Hence withdrawal symptoms are likely to be severe; and hardship is always politically hazardous to inflict, even when it is a necessary corrective to previous excess. This is what Britain faces. For some politicians, running up deficits is not a problem but a benefit, since doing so creates a population permanently in thrall to them for the favors by which it lives. The politicians are thus like drug dealers, profiting from their clientele’s dependence, yet on a scale incomparably larger. The Swedish Social Democrats understood long ago that if more than half of the population became economically dependent on government, either directly or indirectly, no government of any party could easily change the arrangement. It was not a crude one-party system that the Social Democrats sought but a one-policy system, and they almost succeeded."

http://www.city-journal.org/2011/21_3_otbie-uk-govt-spending.html

[Edited on August 9, 2011 at 4:37 PM. Reason : ]

8/9/2011 4:32:50 PM

Related:

http://thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=604613

8/9/2011 4:49:18 PM

so why are these hooligans stealing from the stores?

if they want to get their point across, they can smash stores and infrastructure, but not rob. there is even video of 2 youth helping up an injured bleeding boy sitting on the ground, and then robbing him.

so as i said, destroying infrastructure would be equally as efficient (and slightly less condemnable) as smashing and then robbing. these are poor inner city youths without proper parents who have grown up on welfare, lack education, lack manners/morals, lack marketable skills, and just want more welfare checks. it is the parents who are at fault here, who can't keep their legs closed, making several children without themselves having education/jobs.

these are kids used to getting mediocre amounts of free stuff (and they lack the skills/knowledge to go out and make money) and now they are getting lots of expensive free stuff by robbing stores.

so basically if any changes are made in legislature, it is under threat from these yobs:

"give us more, or we will create more mayhem"

instead of asking for more, maybe they should look at how people live in africa, asia, and south america, and be thankful for what they have AND then try to better themselves and learn some skills/knowledge which they can use to make money one day and live a respectable decent life. but the cycle will continue, they will fuck and create more hooligans like them who will grow up on welfare and create mayhem 20 years down the road.

8/9/2011 4:55:19 PM

ha, here you go: exposes the bullshit behind this thuggery and rioting:

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/katharinebirbalsingh/100099830/these-riots-were-about-race-why-ignore-the-fact/

so is this the only thing that black people know how to do, whether in the US, UK, Africa, or Europe?

Quote :

"He explained that about 80 per cent of gun crime took place in the black community. I smiled uncomfortably. But no, he said, it was worse than that. Then he told me that 80 per cent was black on black gun crime, and that of the remaining 20 per cent about 75 per cent involved at least one black person: black shooting white, or white shooting black. I pushed to know more. While he kept saying his stats were crude and he didn’t have scientific numbers, on the whole the whites who were involved in these shootings tended to be from Eastern Europe. Was any of this ever mentioned in their presentation? Of course not. Just like the news about the Tottenham riots doesn’t mention race either. Problems cannot be addressed unless people are willing to tell the truth. As with so many other things in this country, we stick our heads in the sand and refuse to speak out about it."

[ibtoepeeisracist]


btw, just saw on bbc, that they are having a difficult time trying to figure out how to face the rioters on the streets. the idea of water cannons was floated, but rejected. wtf, why? it is a great idea, can be used from a distance, and will keep people home.

instead they have decided on armored vehicles driving slowly through the streets and like 20 armored cops running behind the vehicles. this is to push back the rioters... but yeah, you have to get pretty close to them to do that. water cannons are non-lethal and can act from a distance, and can be used 360 degree. idiots.

along with water cannons, the idea of a curfew has also been shot down by ministers. why???


[Edited on August 9, 2011 at 5:21 PM. Reason : ]

8/9/2011 4:59:23 PM

^You should get a job with Syrian crowd control.

8/9/2011 5:32:31 PM

yeah because i suggested the brits shoot the rioters... or maybe the syrians are using water cannons...?

fuck bashar asad i hope he dies violently.

TROLL

8/9/2011 5:40:54 PM

you suggested that a people in a crowd on the street be shot with water cannons. How would you like it if you got shot with a water cannon for walking down the street? Looters are in buildings looting not out on the street.

8/9/2011 5:45:29 PM

have you even watched any of the coverage on tv? how did the looters get inside the buildings? how do they go from building to building? ummm, by walking on the streets.

they are on the streets majority of the time, smashing windows and cars and stuff. even when they go inside a building to loot it, do they all go in as one group neatly and come out as one group neatly? they are all over the streets like scattered ants.

furthermore, normal people are scared of them, and are staying inside in the worst affected areas, or avoiding the areas where the rioters are. no one is walking around dressed properly, going grocery shopping, walking next to the rioters. and it is obvious who the rioters are and who aren't.

how would you suggest they control the rioters? let them run rampant and do what they please? water cannons are non-lethal, can act from a distance, can act in all directions, and are effective. what do you want them to use, plastic bullets?

are you condoning rioting and looting?

should they be allowed to riot and loot till the gov convenes a session and gives them what they want... which will take days, and probably weeks...?

8/9/2011 5:52:53 PM

I'm pretty sure they use some discretion when shooting water cannons, and not just look for people on the street to hit.

8/9/2011 5:54:52 PM

exactly... if you have ever seen them used on tv... they are turned on like 1 or 2 times, and everybody runs far far away. they use them in ireland.

8/9/2011 5:57:13 PM

Shame they don't have sonic cannons that rupture your eardrums like American police have.

8/9/2011 8:23:38 PM

8/9/2011 8:27:42 PM

Quote :

"you suggested that a people in a crowd on the street be shot with water cannons."

You mean, like these very same brits commonly employed in Northern Ireland? Oh the horror!

8/9/2011 9:16:20 PM

Quote :

"But as one man told NBC News about an economic protest two months ago, "There was not a word in the press about our protests. Last night (Saturday) a bit of rioting and looting and now look around you." "

http://www.cnbc.com/id/44073673

Hell the only relevant place without large riots aimed at the government is the US...and we're starting to see it with the race riots in Chicago, Philly, and the Wisconsin State Fair...

8/9/2011 9:29:51 PM

They are really showing the government what's up by ruining fellow normal citizens life work and livelihood.

[Edited on August 9, 2011 at 10:59 PM. Reason : break out the rubber bullets]

8/9/2011 10:58:31 PM

Be careful using bullets against citizens. They'll be hanging Mubarak pretty soon.

[Edited on August 9, 2011 at 11:53 PM. Reason : .]

8/9/2011 11:52:52 PM

i wouldn't condone bullets, except only in the most extreme of circumstances, if for example, the rioters were also beating up normal citizens on the streets.

as for the mubarak situation, not comparable, as the egyptians were protesting (marching peacefully, also in tunisia, yemen, bahrain, and now syria), but these yobs are rioting (destroying public property and infrastructure).

water cannons idiots, water cannons. win-win.


[Edited on August 10, 2011 at 12:02 AM. Reason : ]

8/10/2011 12:00:46 AM

8/10/2011 8:31:29 AM

what a bunch of fucking animals.

avoid my apartment if this comes to the US.

8/10/2011 8:37:15 AM

Quote :

"egyptians were protesting (marching peacefully, also in tunisia, yemen, bahrain, and now syria), but these yobs are rioting (destroying public property and infrastructure)"

Look how much the media influences what you believe. You think there wasn't looting and vandalism in Egypt? Are you forgetting that people looted the god damn Egyptian Museum???

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/29/egyptian-museum-looted-egypt_n_815869.html

This shit is mild compared to Egypt, not that I condone the pillaging.

[Edited on August 10, 2011 at 9:57 AM. Reason : .]

8/10/2011 9:47:39 AM

Quote :

"the unrest was claimed to be associated with poor relations between the police and the black community in London"

I'm sure all the out of control violence and looting will do wonders to erase any racial stereotypes that police officers hold.

8/10/2011 10:08:36 AM

^^ i remember the looting of the museum. that has nothing to do with why many protesters were beaten/killed. the looting started later one, several days after the start of the revolution. at the beginning, people were marching peacefully to that specific square in cairo, and they were beaten and shot at by the police.

also, you are saying this is mild compared to egypt... i don't remember so many buildings and cars being set alight and destroyed and so many shops being burgled in egypt during the revolution there.

also in egypt, when the burgling and looting started, nearly all neighbourhoods set up their own security checkposts outside their buildings and streets because they didn't want their people to be hurt or their properties to be destroyed. to me this shows that those who were doing the looting and destruction were criminal minded (or known criminals) people in the first place, and that normal people didn't want any of that so they set up security in their neighborhoods. also, there was the report of a certain thousand criminals being released from jail by the gov to increase the mayhem, don't know if it was true.

contrast that to the uk where apparently normal people (aged 11 to 25) are destroying and looting shops, cars, and people. are they all criminals?

p.s. in summary, in the uk, the actions are 100% looting and destruction, 0% peaceful protesting.

in egypt it was majority peaceful protesting, and minority looting.

these are people who took part in the egyptian revolution:

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/meast/08/09/london.riots.egyptian.bloggers/

Quote :

"Then Zeinobia, who participated in the February 2011 revolution in Egypt, went on to share her confusion about the methods employed by the rioters: "To be honest I do not understand why protesters would set shops and houses on fire by all measures." Mosa'ab Elshamy, another blogger from Cairo who took part in the revolution, condemned the widespread looting, writing: "Egyptians and Tunisians took revenge for Khaled Said and Bouazizi by peacefully toppling their murdering regimes, not stealing DVD players.""

[Edited on August 10, 2011 at 8:31 PM. Reason : ]

8/10/2011 8:23:28 PM

Quote :

"police faced life-threatening and unprecedented violence against them"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgXpNqT2kJE
Look at these dangerous kids on bikes riding on the street like animals before heroic police swoop in to stop them from riding on a bigger street.

8/10/2011 8:33:16 PM

ITS THE RICH PEOPLE'S FAULT

8/10/2011 8:38:10 PM

^^ that's savagery, UNLESS those kids had just destroyed something and were fleeing (remember, there was a heli tracking them so perhaps the heli saw what happened).

either way, i doubt we will ever come to know the truth about that particular incident... as that incident was nothing compared to the big picture. i bet small incidents like that happen all over the place in such disturbances around the world... we only get the full story when someone dies, whether a cop, citizen, or a protester.

8/10/2011 8:52:20 PM

Regardless what that kid had done, he should NOT have been beaten after he fell off the bike. Thats police brutality. Doing something wrong never gives police an excuse.

8/10/2011 11:07:47 PM

Agreed.

Beating is not right... if he had done something, they should have apprehended the kids, not beat them.

8/10/2011 11:12:06 PM

I stand by this statement. The occupy wall street protests have been pretty much ignored. They should start beating investors.

9/26/2011 10:32:44 AM

They'll just turn around and invest in bats and police batons.

9/26/2011 11:36:19 AM

It hasn't been ignored by the NYPD. They've decided that since another workweek has started it's about time to get rid of these annoying rabble rousers.

God forbid someone prevent the national gamblers from getting to their jobs.

9/26/2011 12:05:50 PM

Quote :

"Instead of burning down small businesses, they should be burning down buildings inhabited by the investment banks."

9/26/2011 7:07:06 PM

or better yet, find their multimillion dollar mansions and burn them down.

I didn't consider before the fact that there are probably a majority of people working in those buildings that have nothing to do with sucking the economy dry and are just trying to feed their families (maintenance crews, service staff, etc.).

9/27/2011 11:12:11 AM

the peaceful protests in Syria are slowly turning into armed rebellion by army defectors

9/27/2011 11:20:43 AM

Quote :

"Instead of burning down small businesses, they should be burning down buildings inhabited by the investment banks"

Throwing good money after bad.

It would be far better to simply stop the bailouts. Maybe we should amend the constitution to make such bailouts illegal in the future. But vandalism will just be covered by insurance.

9/27/2011 11:25:00 AM

Quote :

"or better yet, find their multimillion dollar mansions and burn them down"

THAT will show them I am sure they will pay out of their pocket to rebuild!

9/27/2011 12:16:08 PM

Burning buildings isn't violence. There are some things money can't fix.

9/27/2011 12:44:34 PM

^^ I envisioned them being at home when it went down.

9/27/2011 2:09:10 PM

It's like Lenin said, you find the person that will benefit and...uh...

9/28/2011 12:21:01 PM

so imagine this happens here.

how much force can i reasonably use to protect my shit?

im perfectly happy with the status quo- i would rather enjoy blasting scores of ignorant peons.

9/28/2011 5:08:23 PM

Quote :

"I stand by this statement. The occupy wall street protests have been pretty much ignored. They should start beating investors."

Considering that every major news source I read covered the protestors in pretty lengthy articles, I'm not sure why you're saying they were ignored. In my opinion, the real issue that since they represent so many divergent views ranging from Palestinian statehood to the Davies execution without any single unified theme beyond a broad anti-establishment stance, it's hard for the general public to wrap their heads around who they are and what they want. They should focus instead on one or two key demands (might I suggest breaking up banks and real tax reform, goes with the Wall Street theme) and hammer those hard.

BTW - I recommend against beating investors. Some of them are bad, but with their luck, they'll end up beating a trader who works for a union pension fund or something, getting a nice Fox News headline about how protestors are eating their own.

[Edited on September 28, 2011 at 6:04 PM. Reason : .]

9/28/2011 6:03:57 PM

Quote :

"It's like Lenin said, you find the person that will benefit and...uh..."

I am the walrus?

9/28/2011 8:53:04 PM