Ok, first let me start by saying TWW is a blog

I don't know where else to write this. I literally can't write it on my blog because family members read that and I have no somewhat anonymous outlet to post this.


My paternal grandfather died tonight. I mean that in a biological sense. He was NEVER a grandfather to myself nor any single one of my cousins (except for his step grandchildren). I can count on one hand how many times I have spoken to this man. He started a new life with a new family and somehow was able to get away with treating his children (and their children) like total shit for their entire lives. Even on his death bed he didn't try reaching out and making amends for how shitty of a person is.


I'm just really angry right now. My entire life myself, my sister, and our cousins have been very open about how he was never really a grandfather. Hell, when my sister texted me earlier letting me know he passed (I had just received an email from my dad) we agreed how life just goes on and it sucks that he had Parkinson's. I had the emotional sting of someone who had heard an acquaintance's grandfather died.


Now I'm seeing all this sappy shit on FB. Fucking FB.... Post after post about how "amazing" of a father and grandfather this man was. WHAT?! And low and behold... my sister writes one of the most sappy posts.

I know he wasn't evil but he sure as hell shouldn't be celebrated as this wonderful and amazing family man when he cheated on his wife then ran off with a new family and hardly ever spoke to his real family for the rest of his life.

I was apathetic earlier... and now I'm just angry. Yet I feel terrible for being angry about someone's death. Maybe it's all the unresolved feelings I had for this man - I don't even know what I can personally even get out of this post. I don't want anyone saying "I'm so sorry," or anything similar... because I'm not. I guess I just want to know if anyone has ever felt this way, too.

8/17/2011 10:26:22 PM

Yea, people get fucking weird and nice when it comes to the dying. I don't get it.

8/17/2011 10:29:22 PM

One of my grandfathers was not a great person to put it simply. He treated my parents like crap and pulled a lot of conniving, unethical bullcrap in his day.

When he died, I didn't feel angry, but I didn't feel sad either. I guess I kind of felt like you do when you hear about someone you don't know dying on the news. Just a shrug and a move on. I wasn't going to have to deal with his bullcrap anymore. Maybe not the typical response to a grandparent dying but if you treat people like dirt then you can't expect them to mourn you when you die.

8/17/2011 10:30:08 PM

Just to be clear, your anger is directed towards the hypocrisy shown by your family?

Because that's understandable.

8/17/2011 10:31:22 PM

I think I'm getting angrier by the second because so many people are treating him like a fucking saint


And then I thought... my grandpa (my mom's dad) was one of the greatest grandfathers ever and I only got to spend 6 years with him - he was an amazing person and didn't get nearly as many years as "Pops"


I know it's not the most rational thing but now I'm just angry and sad that he's getting the same attention as some of the best grandpas get when he doesn't fucking deserve it



^ Yes, it is - I was apathetic earlier and basically had a "meh, life goes on attitude" (even had a great dinner with a friend)... now all this shit I'm reading/hearing from family is just pissing me off by the second

[Edited on August 17, 2011 at 10:32 PM. Reason : .]

8/17/2011 10:32:16 PM

You should read the Ender's game / Speaker for the Dead series.

It has philosophy about how it matters to accept the reality behind someone's life for what it was, like actually valuing perspectives like your own. This is not how we do things today, but it's worth thinking about if you're getting all philosophical

8/17/2011 10:32:20 PM

^^ I know what you mean. Same thing happened when my grandfather died. It was compounded by the way he died and that he was a business leader in his community. So evvvvvvvvvvveryone had to jump on the bandwagon. Even my grandmother said it was a bit ridiculous the amount of praise he was getting in death.

8/17/2011 10:36:31 PM

Can't say that I know exactly how you feel, but I think its completely natural.

Not to derail the thread, but my bosses daughter has apparently been telling people she's taking a semester off from school because her grandfather is sick (recently diagnosed with skin cancer, but things are looking good. Man is in better health than she is). Fact is, she was kicked out if school. My grandmother has late stage alzheimers and I would never use her as an excuse to cover up my own fuckups. So, I flipped shit yesterday when I found that out.

I have no idea why I just posted that. Anyway, the worldwide is full of despicable people who will push your buttons

[Edited on August 17, 2011 at 10:38 PM. Reason : ]

8/17/2011 10:37:15 PM

Sometimes it's best to let people have their own memories if it helps them have closure. Even if their memories are less than accurate.

8/17/2011 10:46:56 PM

people enjoy getting sympathy, that is why they are posting these sappy things. your family isnt going to get any condolences if they are posting "that bastard is finally dead"

8/17/2011 10:52:06 PM

but if some of them knew how much of a shitty person he was just like I do, why post anything???


oh, because some of them are fake and attention whores


and lucy, that's what I don't get... some of these people have the same opinions as me

[Edited on August 17, 2011 at 10:57 PM. Reason : I don't fucking get it]

8/17/2011 10:56:54 PM

^^ lol

[Edited on August 17, 2011 at 10:57 PM. Reason : ]

8/17/2011 10:57:19 PM

Now I'm all upset that I have even shed a single tear for this man


Ya know what? Tomorrow I'm going to call my Granny and tell her what an amazing person she is. I might even do it right now (but I'm worried I'll wake her up)

8/17/2011 11:04:16 PM

Do it! You'll both have a better day for it.

8/17/2011 11:08:30 PM

Her voicemail box isn't set up apparently


Guess I'll talk to her tomorrow

8/17/2011 11:10:36 PM

*huggles*

/homo

8/17/2011 11:11:35 PM

None of our parents were perfect.
Nor were our grandparents.

Part of being an adult is separating yourself from the damage that was done to you during your childhood and making yourself into the person you want to be. If/when you truly transcend the things that happened to you as a child trivial matters such as these Facebook posts stop affecting you to the point that you would post a thread on TWW about them. I'm not saying you can't choose to disagree with them, but doing so out of anger/spite/frustration/whateverfeelingsyou'refeelingrightnow won't do any good. If you want to disagree with your sister and you feel that it's worth the harm that it might do to future interactions with your family then go for it. As Kenny Rogers once said "You got to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em, know when to walk away, know when to run."

8/18/2011 12:32:17 AM

Yeah +5 for what Skack said. You know the dude was an asshole, but that's who he is and you gotta let that go.

And, maybe this is just me going meh, but plenty of people don't even have grandfathers these days because of geographical location, parents having their children later, and random other reasons. My mom's dad died when I was 8 months old, so I really only had one on my dad's side.

I would consider myself lucky that I had that one, and 2 decent grandmothers.

And I think grandparents overall have less influence than say, parents do.

8/18/2011 12:46:00 AM

Of course you can feel anger.

You can feel whatever emotion you want to feel.

I recently lost my last grandmother. She lived near here, but I wasn't really close to her or my immediate family.

I didn't think that it would really effect me, but it did. Because I started to see how my father dealt with it and these emotions started to cascade. Because, then I started associating those emotions with my mom (like how my mom dying would sit with me) or my bro, (who's currently in harm's way ('nuff said)).

I'm still running the gamut of emotions in my day to day at times, and it's not directly related, but dang if it doesn't make me think of other things.

And those other things aren't just one emotion.

8/18/2011 12:56:29 AM

^3 Wow to the both of you. That was not even the intention of this thread. Now that I have calmed down, i can calmly say that what affected me the most was everyone treating him like a saint when I know how much pain they have felt themselves by this man, even as recently as the past few months. It's very hard to talk to someone I'm close to (my sister) one second and know we feel the same (apathetic) then read something so completely backwards from what I had witnessed from her. It was a lot of rage not only at the way he treated me but at the way he treat others as well. Actually, it was mostly over how he treated others. And for the record, the damage continued into adulthood. I would really appreciate it if you didn't think the heart of this matter was a simple FB post. I made a post about it because like I previously mentioned, this was a somewhat anonymous outlet (I say somewhat because some of my friends go on here but my family does not) and I needed to let everything out. I think it's silly how you're acting like my disagreeing with my sister will cause harm to our future relationship though. We're sisters. We disagree with each other.


And I REALLY don't understand the post about geographical location and whatnot. He wasn't a grandfather not because of where he lived but because of his actions. He simply chose not to have any part with us (save for his step grandchild).



^ Thank you.... You really hit the nail on the head - I guess I didn't expect it to affect me this way. Lots of emotions right now, mainly because of how other people are hurting due to his actions. I would rather take all the hurt to save their feelings to be quite honest.

I'm upset with myself for even wasting tears on it.





And Skack, after rereading your post I just want to reiterate how off the mark you were. Disagreeing with the people because of my anger is NOT what is going on here. I wasn't even angry until I started to realize how so many people were going against how they truly felt just because they can now stick a RIP in front of his name. Obviously I don't think they should be like, "Well, good riddance" but simple condolences will do. Not shit like this:

"Dear Grandfather... I hope today you're greeted by the open arms of those you've loved and lost throughout your lifetime, and walk together into the painless splendor of paradise beyond.

Rest In Peace, Pops. I truly wish we could have been closer."


When earlier this same person told me yeah it sucks but her desire for him to be a grandfather was long since gone.

[Edited on August 18, 2011 at 1:10 AM. Reason : .]

8/18/2011 1:02:31 AM

People react to people dying in odd ways. Sometimes when someone dies, they are immediately raised to 'saint' status and only the good that they did is remembered. Sometimes only the shit they did during their life is remembered. Sometimes they are just just purged from memory and they really aren't thought about again. You can't help how other people react to someone dying.

And he may have been an asshole to you and some of your family, but just like your grandfather was the bees knees, he may have been the same to others. Its all a matter of perspective; getting angry at other people won't help anything.



Anger is a part of dealing with people dying in general; whether its at them, people around them, people around you, or the sky being blue. When Christine passed away, people would offer to pray for me. That just pissed me off, but I realized they meant well and I was getting angry for selfish reasons. It still peeves me off thinking back about it, but I've just accepted that anger was misplaced.

I'm sure you seeing him talked about in a positive light is angers you, but you have to accept the anger and let people deal with his passing away in their own way; especially since its so recently.

8/18/2011 1:06:35 AM

I just want to clarify that I'm mainly upset by the hypocrisy of it all. Most of the people praising him were the ones quick to say what a shitty person he was, as well as what a shitty grandfather and father he was.


The people who didn't know him like some of us did.. I'm not going to fault them for grieving. Hell, i don't fault anyone for wanting to grieve but don't be a hypocrite about it for the sake of saving face.

[Edited on August 18, 2011 at 1:15 AM. Reason : idk. I guess it was a bad title - should have put "reactions to a death make you angry"]

8/18/2011 1:12:32 AM

Quote :

""Dear Grandfather... I hope today you're greeted by the open arms of those you've loved and lost throughout your lifetime, and walk together into the painless splendor of paradise beyond. Rest In Peace, Pops. I truly wish we could have been closer." When earlier this same person told me yeah it sucks but her desire for him to be a grandfather was long since gone."

Honestly, I don't see anything here praising him for being a good person or making him sound like an important part of her life. To me it sounds like a person who doesn't know him very well is wishing him the best in whatever may come next. Maybe she is even acknowledging that she is letting go of whatever issues she may have with him and moving on with her own life. It was probably somewhat cathartic to let it go for her.

I sincerely apologize if my post(s) have offended you and I wish you and your family the best through everything that has happened.

[Edited on August 18, 2011 at 1:50 AM. Reason : s]

8/18/2011 1:46:16 AM

Only read the OP, so maybe this is covered.

When someone dies people generally try to find nice things to say about the deceased; it's a polite thing people do in society. They don't typically try to use the event to focus on the negative or use the event to air all of their dirty laundry. Besides, everyone making the nice comments already know all the bad stuff your grandfather did and what kind of person he was... they are just following the social norm and being polite about it. Would you be happier if they all threw a party and celebrated the moment the evil coot finally kicked the bucket? Outsiders that didn't intimately know your grandfather would probably start forming opinions of them if they did that. Heck, it may even affect family. Like a few generations from now:

Samwise16 III: Man I can't stand Samwise16, the way they always talked negative about family members and disagreed with them all the time. Can't stand to see anyone say anything nice about them. Seriously not trying to offend, just using an extreme example.

I guess it's a matter of outlook, you can focus on how terrible he was or try to find some good. Trying to dig deep to find something positive might help. May even help you deal with difficult people among the living.

Feeling anger is perfectly normal though, it is one of the five stages of grief after all Just saying don't let that anger bubble over into the realm of "I'm sick of all these positive FB posts, time to show the world the real pawpaw"

Edit: Changed a few things after reading the thread.

[Edited on August 18, 2011 at 7:49 AM. Reason : -]

8/18/2011 7:35:55 AM

Quote :

"Dear Grandfather... I hope today you're greeted by the open arms of those you've loved and lost throughout your lifetime, and walk together into the painless splendor of paradise beyond. Rest In Peace, Pops. I truly wish we could have been closer."

I don't think there's anything "sappy" or talking about how great a person he is. The bolded part even echos your statements about him not being a part of your lives.

Sounds like she's being mature about it (although posting something on FB about a dead grandfather is kind of the opposite...it IS what people are doing these days) and you have your panties all in a wad about something that you're misinterpreting.

8/18/2011 8:24:29 AM

^ I spoke to her very soon after she wrote that shit (I thought it was before) and she said it was too bad he was never a grandfather. I know it sounds ridiculous but she has a bad habit of doing crap like this to sound all regal and whatnot when really she called him a bastard on the regular. AND it bothers me she used the term grandfather when it has been clear she doesn't think of him as such. Ridiculous.

I can assure you, this isn't her "dealing with it" and coping. But I will admit I probably overreacted some. I let the emotions get the best of me and kept getting angrier instead of walking away.

8/18/2011 9:19:49 AM

Quote :

"But I will admit I probably overreacted some."

I think you're still overreacting.

8/18/2011 9:26:48 AM

You are letting his death impact you more than his life did.

Give his death the same amount of attention you gave his life.... 0%.


Shrug your shoulders and move on. He wasn't part of your life. He wasn't nice to you so you don't have to pay any respects if you don't feel like you have to. But he may have been a good person to others. Don't ruin it for them by lashing out. Be the adult.

8/18/2011 10:10:01 AM

^2 How so? I have been trying not to focus on it today.

^ I'm not lashing out at anyone in my family.

8/18/2011 11:16:31 AM

Obviously you and your sister vented to each other earlier about your dissatisfaction with the role your grandfather played in your life. Your sister then posted a facebook comment that said nothing about him being a good person or a great man and ACTUALLY mentioned that he didn't have a substantial presence in her life. The only positive thing she did was wish that he would have a nice afterlife. Seems to me like a stand-up thing to do while not actually saying anything good about him.

You, however, have misinterpreted what she said, gotten angry, came to t-dub to vent, and are apparently still upset about it.

Quote :

"And low and behold... my sister writes one of the most sappy posts. "

Your sister's post wasn't sappy.

Quote :

"I know he wasn't evil but he sure as hell shouldn't be celebrated as this wonderful and amazing family man when he cheated on his wife then ran off with a new family and hardly ever spoke to his real family for the rest of his life."

Your sister didn't do that. Other people who might have been on the side of the family that he was closer to might have done that...but your sister didn't.

Quote :

"It's very hard to talk to someone I'm close to (my sister) one second and know we feel the same (apathetic) then read something so completely backwards from what I had witnessed from her."

It was in no way backwards. Nothing in your sister's FB post was opposite of what you two talked about. If anything, she mentioned in her FB that they weren't close.



IMO...the stuff with your sister shouldn't be an issue and you are (or maybe you've let it go) overreacting. As far as the other stuff about him being an asshole and everyone saying all this nice stuff about him...tough shit. Not everyone has gone though the same experience with this guy that you have. To you, he's a shithead. To some people he was an actually a good man. Newsflash, not everyone acts the same to everyone else. Even the most amazing people are assholes every now and then.

Overall, was he a bad person? Probably. Were there certain people's lives he made better? Apparently so. Obviously he was good to people in his other family and they are going to miss him. What do you want? What is going to help you? Do you want to write "those people" a letter telling them what a horrible person he was? Will that make you feel better?

I guess I just don't get it. He's dead. What can be done to make this situation better? I'll tell you what won't make it better...you being bitter and getting into arguments with your sister about it.

[Edited on August 18, 2011 at 11:42 AM. Reason : .]

8/18/2011 11:40:34 AM

I never got into an argument with her and I certainly don't plan on it. When others responded she acted as if they were never very close as if she just didn't get the chance to know him. In reality she has said time and time again he means nothing to her and it wouldn't phase her if he died. I was upset with how she portrayed it as they just weren't close for other reasons (this came from other comments on the post) instead of him basically not wanting anything to do with any of us grandchildren. Furthermore, most of the people praising him were the ones he fucked over the most. I have never said I was upset at what was being said by people who knew a different side of him. I am upset by the hypocrisy of the ones who always said how shitty of a person he was and are now acting like he's a saint. I will also never say anything because quite frankly, that is ridiculous and going out of my way to say horrible things about a deceased family member to other relatives just for the hell of it isn't my style. Venting on a message board? Sure. Arguing with relatives over this? No.

For the last time... this wasn't started from my anger over his actions (though that did fuel the fire later) - it was the reaction to his death from key relatives. The only thing I wanted to get out of this thread is to just vent and wonder if I was ok to feel anger or if it was crazy. That's it. I will not contact any relatives to bitch about him and I am certainly not going to make snide comments to people who are grieving, regardless of my opinions towards their reaction.

PS, I am over it.. but I did want to address your post.

8/18/2011 1:18:56 PM

My paternal grandmother had serious issues, my parents tried to have a relationship with her, for every ones sake. Unfortunately she had a few screws loose. I knew her. Can't say I miss her. I don't think I ever got angry. I think i left it up to my father to have those feelings.

I did go to her funeral to support my dad. I never kneeled and showed my respects... all I really did was make the kind of "oh well" face, because it was her loss. My dads cousins had a relationship with her. I don't really have any jealousy that they had a better relationship... like I said I leave that for my dad.

I think the only reason I was able to be apathetic was because of the absolute dedication and love my maternal grandmother had/has given me. Any void I had she more than filled. Had it not been for her I would probably be angry. My relationship with my paternal grandfather is weak. I never knew my maternal grandfather, he died before I was born. My maternal grandmother's father was the one that really filled that role. It crushed me to lose him, and will crush me to lose my grandmother. Don't have time for anger, I want to focus on what I have.

[Edited on August 18, 2011 at 7:21 PM. Reason : .]

8/18/2011 7:20:23 PM

If you never got proper closure, then yes.

8/18/2011 8:10:03 PM

not that I have any experience with this, but it sounds somewhat like you're not angry about him passing as you are about the warm & fuzzy (albeit false) things people are saying about him- particularly your sister.

you can't do anything to reconcile with him obviously- and not that you would have needed to. but you might want to ask your sis why she felt the need to say such things. perhaps it's her way of dealing with it, but I see no harm in you (delicately) asking if she believes any of what she said, and if not, then why did she bother saying it.


and to answer the question, no. I am fairly certain that anger is a completely reasonable response to death. but like I said, it doesn't seem like you're angry due to the death, but more to the particular responses to the death of some people in your life.

/freud

[Edited on August 19, 2011 at 9:50 PM. Reason : basically I agree with everything you've been saying. :shrug:]

8/19/2011 9:47:50 PM