Quote :

"GOP may OK tax increase that Obama hopes to block By CHARLES BABINGTON, Associated Press – 1 day ago WASHINGTON (AP) — News flash: Congressional Republicans want to raise your taxes. Impossible, right? GOP lawmakers are so virulently anti-tax, surely they will fight to prevent a payroll tax increase on virtually every wage-earner starting Jan. 1, right? Apparently not. Many of the same Republicans who fought hammer-and-tong to keep the George W. Bush-era income tax cuts from expiring on schedule are now saying a different "temporary" tax cut should end as planned. By their own definition, that amounts to a tax increase. The tax break extension they oppose is sought by President Barack Obama. Unlike proposed changes in the income tax, this policy helps the 46 percent of all Americans who owe no federal income taxes but who pay a "payroll tax" on practically every dime they earn. "

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hcv66ONtPUG-K0C2EstqsYBU77yg?docId=5e01f49a8f5546578066437dd437299d

It's amazing how hard the republicans will fight for tax breaks to millionaires and billionaires and leave the working and middle class behind.

The aristocratic class doesn't work, therefore they don't benefit from a payroll tax cut.

8/23/2011 1:39:12 AM

The cut will pass, just like the debt ceiling, the repubs just want their pound of flesh from obama.

8/23/2011 2:13:47 AM

What is the difference between a payroll tax and an income tax?

8/23/2011 7:20:35 AM

payroll taxes are medicare and social security.

8/23/2011 7:22:31 AM

Quote :

"What is the difference between a payroll tax and an income tax?"

It's easier to poor-fuck with a payroll tax

8/23/2011 11:37:58 AM

Isn't that already what's happening? You don't have to pay FICA on income above ~115k. People that get paid less than that amount end up paying a higher percentage of their income towards FICA, and there's a very strong possibility they will not receive any benefits.

We've already determined that Social Security/Medicare is not a "get what you pay in" system. It's a "get way more than what you pay in" system. For the poor and recent graduates, though, FICA reduces the amount they take home very substantially.

8/23/2011 11:43:25 AM

for MANY the payroll tax is their only contribution to the system.

This is just pandering for votes. Cutting payroll taxes for employees but not employers can only be described as pandering esp when the programs are in trouble as is.

I wish we could scrap all these taxes and just go with a national sales tax so that way they cant play politics with our taxes/checkbook.

8/23/2011 11:59:22 AM

Quote :

" I wish we could scrap all these taxes and just go with a national sales tax so that way they cant play politics with our taxes/checkbook."

You wish that because you're either a moron or (to give you the benefit of a doubt) you haven't thought very seriously about what a national sales tax would actually result in. Chances are you support it because it's a simple idea that your tiny brain can wrap around easily.

8/24/2011 3:20:48 PM

Quote :

"You don't have to pay FICA on income above ~115k."

I would support removing the ceiling on that.

8/24/2011 3:22:42 PM

Quote :

"We've already determined that Social Security/Medicare is not a "get what you pay in" system. It's a "get way more than what you pay in" system. "

Not necessarily. The lower 50% of income earners have a life expectancy about 5 years less than those in the top 50%, even worse, the spread is about 7 years for blacks compared to whites. Incidentally, lower class blacks tend to retire later in life. So essentially they work themselves right up to near-death and pay payroll taxes the whole time, ultimately to essentially subsidize the retirements of their bosses.

8/24/2011 3:23:14 PM

Roughly 50% of Americans pay zero income tax. As it was said, this is some peoples only contribution, and likely these are the same who use more of govt services than others. Im okay with it being raised since it costs ~$120mm, plus its a bigger tax return.

8/24/2011 4:00:29 PM

^^ A great argument in favor of abolishing SS and Medicare as we know them.

^ I have no problem with 50% of us paying no taxes. I admit it is unfair. The solution, however, is to make it so as many of us as possible pay no income taxes.

8/24/2011 4:11:44 PM

Quote :

"You don't have to pay FICA on income above ~115k"

The cap is only for SS, you pay into medicare on all earned income.

Which makes sense that SS is capped bc the benefits are capped.

Foolish, try to explain it to my tiny brain what a national sales tax will result in? It is almost like I have heard of sales taxes being used before....somewhere.... haha

8/24/2011 6:43:06 PM

They expire at the end of the year. Grover Norquist is going to be pissed!

11/22/2011 8:29:21 PM

Does this guy threaten to run attack ads AGAINST conservatives if they even contemplate raising taxes? I can't fathom how any one person that isn't the President can apparently wield so much power and influence over sitting politicians.

11/22/2011 9:57:16 PM

Quote :

"Foolish, try to explain it to my tiny brain what a national sales tax will result in? It is almost like I have heard of sales taxes being used before....somewhere.... haha"

A national sales tax will, like all sales tax, affect less of your income the more of it you have (the percent of your income that goes into consumption spending is on average inversely proportional to your income).

In other words, despite being applied as a flat tax per dollar, it applies to a smaller proportion of your dollars the more dollars you have. So in execution it acts like a regressive tax.

Quote :

"Roughly 50% of Americans pay zero income tax."

You mean Federal personal income tax. They still pay state taxes, FICA, sales taxes, etc. Every single one of them I'm pretty sure would much rather be making enough money to pay those Federal income taxes.

Quote :

" As it was said, this is some peoples only contribution, and likely these are the same who use more of govt services than others. "

I think the people who run shipping companies that make tens of millions of dollars a year thanks to our interstate road system benefit way, way, way more from government services than Joe Welfare getting $200 a month for food.

Likewise, the companies who save millions of dollars in training costs thanks to the public school system and Pell grants benefit way more from government services than Joe Welfare's son getting a free lunch card at school.

I could go on, but the point is that I have a very radical belief that maybe the people who are benefiting the most from our system are...the people who have gotten really rich from working within it, rather than the people who are reduced to living on handouts and Section 8 housing from working within it.


[Edited on November 23, 2011 at 11:01 AM. Reason : .]

11/23/2011 10:46:24 AM

^^

Anyone with significant $Texas can put a politician on edge. Their goal in life is to get elected and stay elected, and if this Grover guy isn't satisfied, he'll torpedo their campaign by paying for ad space

<insert 30 second commercial of how xxx raised your taxes! How dare he!>

I'm sure some politicians are strong enough to go against the grain and still get re-elected, but the rest simply aren't as confident. They'd rather stick in line and let Grover run 30 second commercials against the other guy.

We really won't get this corrected until we set term limits for Congress and the Senate. I'm sick of the decisions that are being made for the sake of electibility.

11/23/2011 10:59:42 AM

Quote :

"A national sales tax will, like all sales tax, affect less of your income the more of it you have "

assuming it were the same for all products...little/no tax for basic items with a progressivly higher rate for luxury items would go a long way toward eliminating that problem.

11/23/2011 11:43:15 AM

Quote :

"assuming it were the same for all products...little/no tax for basic items with a progressivly higher rate for luxury items would go a long way toward eliminating that problem."

That's definitely closer to reasonable than a flat sales tax. But now your tax return wont fit on a postcard anymore, so we lost Perry's support.

11/23/2011 12:08:26 PM

See how much the GOP wants you to pay
http://www.whitehouse.gov/economy/jobsact/calculator

[Edited on November 29, 2011 at 8:43 PM. Reason : edit]

11/29/2011 8:42:34 PM

wait, Obama wants to cut another 1.1% on the payroll tax.

Damn man, I am tired of getting checks of borrowed money from the government. I remember when George W. Bush bribed me with a stimulus check.

I don't want any more of their money, but I do want to tax the daylights out of the rich. I can't comprehend how congress continues to this day to pass aggressive pro-corporate legislation and push nonsense like SOPA.

I don't think that the regular American is a good place to get policy direction from, but the alternative, legislation without popular support and cooked up by Washington, is much much worse. We're screwed.

11/29/2011 9:23:32 PM

Quote :

"In other words, despite being applied as a flat tax per dollar, it applies to a smaller proportion of your dollars the more dollars you have."

LOL, tell my something that doesnt work like this? OMG my cheeseburger cost me a higher percentage of my income than someone else with more money... It is not fair.

I want a porsche but it takes up too big a percentage of my income...but Bill Gates can pay cash. THE SYSTEM maaaaan.

Pryderi, are you serious? The GOP want to extend the SS tax cut but actually PAY FOR IT with reductions in spending. THe horror... I know I know. Obama should just say he want to eliminate ALL taxes on EVERYONE who doesnt own a plane. Then he can run ads saying he is looking out for people while the evil GOP and anyone else who would oppose is only looking out for rich plane owners..... and the sheep will eat it up.

11/29/2011 9:43:19 PM

Find out for how long pryderi would Lewinsky Obama if he could here:

http://tinyurl.com/ytn85d

11/30/2011 8:55:22 AM

Payroll tax cut measures from Democrats, Republicans go down in Senate.

http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/Latest-News-Wires/2011/1202/Payroll-tax-bills-defeated-in-Senate.-Now-what

12/2/2011 9:42:23 AM

Quote :

"LOL, tell my something that doesnt work like this? OMG my cheeseburger cost me a higher percentage of my income than someone else with more money... It is not fair. I want a porsche but it takes up too big a percentage of my income...but Bill Gates can pay cash. THE SYSTEM maaaaan."

You're insane man, we're talking about a tax, which is a percentage rate that by their nature are some kind of proportion to your income, and you're making a comparison to flat-dollar-cost consumer products which are by definition always the same cost regardless of your income. How do you manage to wipe your own ass without getting a cardboard tube stuck up your butt every day?

[Edited on December 2, 2011 at 9:55 AM. Reason : .]

12/2/2011 9:54:38 AM

Anyone catch how the GOP wanted to cut 200,00 jobs to pay for this tax cut? This was their alternative to a surtax on millionaires that affects ~1% of small business owners, and was actually supported by Grover Norquist. Party of job creators indeed.

12/2/2011 11:31:11 AM

I'd like to cut a lot more than 200,000 government jobs, which is what we're talking about.

12/2/2011 11:37:30 AM

Why on Earth would you want to lose ANY jobs right now? This isn't the time for deficit reduction at all costs, what's important now is people working and having money to spend to keep the economy moving along. What the fuck do you expect those 200,000 workers to do? It's not like there's private sector jobs waiting for them. They're just going to go on unemployment and welfare (which they wont pay taxes on, unlike their government salaries).

Or are you just not thinking about the economy, just your ideology and over-the-top prejudices against all things governmental?

[Edited on December 2, 2011 at 12:56 PM. Reason : .]

12/2/2011 12:54:18 PM

Quote :

"Isn't that already what's happening? You don't have to pay FICA on income above ~115k. People that get paid less than that amount end up paying a higher percentage of their income towards FICA"

Those making >$115K likely will not be tapping into the social secuirty fund as senior citizens. Why should they be forced to subsidize all those irresponsible people's who choose
to buy new TV's, cars, $200K houses instead of saving the proper amounts for retirement.

I am not advocate for the rich, I think the investment tax rate should be increased. I just do not feel like their tax monies should be appropriated into a fund
that can not be used for the overall common good. Such as at least part of a federal income tax increase is helping to pay for roads, defense, parks etc.

Quote :

"for MANY the payroll tax is their only contribution to the system. "

Exactly,

Consider it an unvoluentary witholding for your retirement, although most younger folks will not see a dime.

Quote :

"I would support removing the ceiling on that. "

No

Quote :

"I think the people who run shipping companies that make tens of millions of dollars a year thanks to our interstate road system benefit way, way, way more from government services than Joe Welfare getting $200 a month for food. "

What is your point? Joe Welfare does not pay income taxes and probably his baby's mama is getting a tax credit for their
little brat after getting knocked up out of wedlock.

Quote :

"I can't comprehend how congress continues to this day to pass aggressive pro-corporate legislation and push nonsense like SOPA. "

I'll agree.

12/2/2011 12:55:58 PM

Quote :

"Those making >$115K likely will not be tapping into the social secuirty fund as senior citizens. Why should they be forced to subsidize all those irresponsible people's who choose to buy new TV's, cars, $200K houses instead of saving the proper amounts for retirement. "

Give me a fucking break. Wages have been stagnating for 90% of Americans for more than 30 years. It's not because they are buying TV's and super expensive houses, they're simply making shit wages because the rich are fucking them harder. Sorry, but if you can't pay your workers a decent wage while they're working, I'm more than happy to put a gun to your head so you do it during their retirement. Metaphorical guns are being put to workers heads every day to take shittier and shittier jobs just to stay alive.


I'd also add that the rich live longer, and when they do collect SS they collect it far longer. On the other hand, workers die younger and collect less of the SS they contributed a larger proportion of their income to. So they essentially work their asses off their entire lives, then die shortly after retirement, essentially subsidizing their boss's SS payments in the long run!

Quote :

"I just do not feel like their tax monies should be appropriated into a fund that can not be used for the overall common good. "

How is "Senior citizens not rotting on the streets after they're too old to work" not a common good?

Quote :

"What is your point? Joe Welfare does not pay income taxes and probably his baby's mama is getting a tax credit for their little brat after getting knocked up out of wedlock. "

Read what I was responding to. My point was that clearly the people getting the most benefit out of our system are the very rich, not the very poor.

[Edited on December 2, 2011 at 1:11 PM. Reason : .]

12/2/2011 12:58:46 PM

Quote :

"Give me a fucking break. Wages have been stagnating for 90% of Americans for more than 30 years. It's not because they are buying TV's and super expensive houses, they're simply making shit wages because the rich are fucking them harder. Sorry, but if you can't pay your workers a decent wage while they're working, I'm more than happy to put a gun to your head so you do it during their retirement. Metaphorical guns are being put to workers heads every day to take shittier and shittier jobs just to stay alive. "

Hey i am not arguing against the rich paying their fair share. I just do not think any additional taxed money on the rich should be pooled into S.S. versus the other funds that the general tax stream supports.

Don't forget that the rich are already paying more in S.S. on their first $115k of income than most folks.

The fact of the matter is people need to stop viewing social security as their retirement fund.
Fix for social security....

1.) Create better tax credit incentives for younger folks to support their elderly parents as a means of reducing social security demand.

2.) Set a long term tapering of distribution allocations. So workers in their 40's don't assume the % that retiree's now get is what they can expect.

3.) A major public education campaign to educate the population on properly saving for retirement.

4.) Ban federal government borrowing from social security during "emergencies" or using payroll tax breaks as bribes to improve their disposition to the populace.

12/2/2011 1:37:02 PM

Quote :

"A major public education campaign to educate the population on properly saving for retirement."

lol, this will never happen

12/2/2011 1:44:08 PM

Quote :

"What is your point? Joe Welfare does not pay income taxes and probably his baby's mama is getting a tax credit for their little brat after getting knocked up out of wedlock."

No, but he pays rent to the slumlord, buys food, diapers, baby food, toothpaste, soap, clothes which helps employ people and make corporations and rich people richer.

12/2/2011 6:27:43 PM