I'm currently in WGS 210 and our final project requires some form of community involvement. Our group is trying to raise awareness of the power of advertising and the media in general in shaping people's perceptions of what an ideal/healthy/normal body looks like.

This is our website
https://sites.google.com/a/ncsu.edu/the-media-body-image-and-eating-disorders/home

and then we have a discussion forum for you to share what you think. (Please share)
http://cultureandbodyimage.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general

thanks

[Edited on November 15, 2011 at 3:10 AM. Reason : links]

11/15/2011 3:08:56 AM

no . . . . . thank you


this is important work you are doing

11/15/2011 3:34:45 AM

a web forum, you say?

11/15/2011 6:16:15 AM

the Google doc in the middle of your page doesn't work

11/15/2011 7:56:14 AM

I have a problem with the media making it look like being fat is OK. Get all fat people off of TV.

And young girls should worry about getting fat -- most of them are medically overweight or obese because their fat parents don't know how to feed them and have never taught them proper nutrition and portion control. Seeing a fat baby is the worst.

Isn't heart disease the number 1 killer of men and women in the US? Not eating disorders (unless overeating is an eating disorder)?

[Edited on November 15, 2011 at 9:14 AM. Reason : .]

11/15/2011 9:08:57 AM

1.

Quote :

"With women such as Nicole Richie, Sarah Jessica Parker, Kelly Ripa, the Olsen twins, Mischa Barton, Victoria Beckham, Kate Bosworth, and Keira Knightly being in America's living rooms night after night, there's no surprise that the media has a profound influence on women. "

I rarely see or hear anything about these women. If you you want your point to be more credible then choose more common examples. Unless, that is, you fear it will weaken your point because the women who actually are on TV are not that skinny.

2. I wish women would stop trying to find excuses to gain weight and get fat. "These women aren't real, being skinny isn't necessarily good" Get a grip, put down the sweets and start taking in less calories than you use. You'll see just how easy it is.

11/15/2011 9:30:51 AM

I agree with Skokiaan. It's much worse for your health to be fat than skinny. Maybe you should focus your efforts on getting fat women off of television and out of advertisements.

[Edited on November 15, 2011 at 9:57 AM. Reason : #]

11/15/2011 9:55:59 AM

I think the issue is a balancing game between the two extremes. On one hand, we as a nation have an obesity problem; there's no denying it since there are mountains of health data showing both the growing problem and the causes it has for society. That being said, there is a very real problem with a large segment of women who are fruitlessly chasing an image that is unattainable to all but a fraction of the gene pool. My sister used to work in advertising, and if you saw just how much they manipulate images for print ads alone, it would remind you just how impossible those images are to meet.

11/15/2011 10:10:57 AM

i rather like all the women mentioned, but im fine with my gf.

11/15/2011 11:28:54 AM

I don't watch TV.

Perhaps the problem can be addressed by replacing Time Warner subscriptions with memberships at the Y.

Problem solved. Damn I'm good.

11/15/2011 11:33:38 AM

overeating is indeed an eating disorder, people with bulimia can be normal to overweight and most people with an eating disorder will have some combination of symptoms but not necessarily all required for being diagnosed as anorexic/bulimic

our goal is to raise awareness for our issue, not to solve the "most important" issue - everyone seems well informed about obesity here already

also, I realize it is strange to ask you through TWW to post on our forum, but if you share on there then people who aren't familiar with TWW can also benefit from your insights



[Edited on November 15, 2011 at 12:40 PM. Reason : .]

11/15/2011 12:34:35 PM

Maybe you should focus on creating role models that accomplish what you want instead of spending energy telling people about how bad the ones we have are.

11/15/2011 12:42:05 PM

the effect of telling people is to empower everyone to be individuals and not be affected by what they see in the media

11/15/2011 12:54:16 PM

I think that's hopeless. The way to not be affected by media is to not look at it. You can't hear or see something anywhere and not be affected by it.

You also can't possibly tell the media to stop promulgating the junk they do. They're in competition, you know what the most popular series on TV are these days. It's not for their witty commentary.

You have to offer something better. People need friends, activities, and an identity. If you're alone at home slurping ice cream in envy of the body parts flashing on the screen, you don't have these things.

11/15/2011 1:06:32 PM

Quote :

"the effect of telling people is to empower everyone to be individuals and not be affected by what they see in the media"

You understand that this idea flies directly in the face of everything we know about how people behave right. It does not matter how much you tell people in a one on situation not to respond to tv imagery it will work not because the science behind marketing says that people will see the picture on tv and want it. If you wish to 'change' this perception than the only way is to change the role models being pushed out by Hollywood and the fashion world. If TV was full of women that looked like Sofía Vergara and Christina Hendricks then you will would have ppl think those were the correct/right/hot body types. Of course at that point we'd have someone in here complaining that TV is telling everyone they need to have hips and big cans and someone would be making the exact argument i am making for putting the Kiera Knightly type back in every thing.

If you want to take a shot at the fashion models, remember they are all tall and rail thin because designing for a human hanger is a lot easier then designing for someone with curves. Tell fashion designers to stop being lazy bastards.

11/15/2011 1:43:54 PM

my gf is 116lbs at 5'8"

an american doctor told her this year that she needs to gain more weight to be healthy.

at first she was really confused and asked me about it.
then she lol'd.


it doesn't matter what the media says. males are always going to choose healthier females over obese fatties. sorry. it's just science at this point.

[Edited on November 15, 2011 at 2:16 PM. Reason : .]

11/15/2011 2:04:57 PM

Signed,

All the fat chicks on TWW with boyfriends/husbands

11/15/2011 3:03:34 PM

Quote :

"You understand that this idea flies directly in the face of everything we know about how people behave right."

I did not choose a project where I knew the goal was a waste of time, what research is there that people are mindless drones with no free will?

11/15/2011 3:38:29 PM

because that's exactly what he said. you can recognize something is bad for you and still want/do it.

addiction is a great example of psychological dependancy or desire that may (or may not in many cases) have any physical portion to it or conscious choice involved.

[Edited on November 15, 2011 at 4:25 PM. Reason : .]

11/15/2011 4:25:08 PM

Yes - addiction, anorexia, bulimia - they are all psychological disorders where people can feel out of control, but these are disorders not the norm

11/15/2011 7:57:19 PM

This isn't too different than a recent discussion we had about consumption habits. Do people buy things because they want them, or because marketing/advertising informs them of their desires? By the same token, do men prefer slimmer physiques because they're genetically "programmed" to prefer that body type, or because they're conditioned by the media?

It has to be a little bit of both. People are influenced to varying degrees by advertising or media. There are some people that probably spend a lot of timing wishing they could have some celebrity's body. At the same time, there are probably others that feel a great deal of social pressure to have a better body, and expectations set by the "media" don't come into play nearly as much. The social pressure component is not something that I see as particularly bad, and it may even be positive.

Taking a look at the general population in the United States, most people are pretty out of shape. Even individuals that aren't fat or overweight still usually aren't in great condition and may have a number of muscle groups that are underdeveloped. The idealization of a perfect, sculpted body is not new or specific to our society. The more destructive path I'm noticing is the idealization of "super skinny", which (to me) is unattractive and often unhealthy.

11/15/2011 11:48:22 PM

I'm with skokian and geppeto. We need more skinny chicks on TV...last time I looked around, I was drowning in a sea of fatties. Looks to me like we need more hot skinny chicks encouraging that sort of behavior, not fewer.

Hell, about 15 of us from my squadron went to the bar one Friday afternoon, and an older doctor actually remarked, "You all must be in the military; not a single one of you is fat!"

11/16/2011 12:30:36 AM

AHA, you don't even come close to resembling the sexy military men I see in the movies. Why haven't those images made you better looking with a "hotter" body?!?!?!

Surely, putting more hot military dudes on TV will encourage you.

11/16/2011 5:30:06 AM

^ lol

Quote :

"We need more skinny chicks on TV...last time I looked around, I was drowning in a sea of fatties. Looks to me like we need more hot skinny chicks encouraging that sort of behavior, not fewer."

Here's the problem: watching skinny chicks doesn't make you skinny. It makes you fat. Because you're sitting on your goddam ass watching skinny chicks on TV.

Pretty simple folks.

11/16/2011 9:32:09 AM

To be clear, I'm not trying to be mean to theDuke866.

There's a lot going on here, and many people have touched on some good points. It's obvious that the number one eating disorder in this country is binge eating or overeating. Sometimes, it presents as an obvious disorder--if you've ever been in the presence of someone who downs a half gallon of ice cream in thirty minutes, then you know what I'm talking about. But it's also very easy to confuse overeating with the typical American diet--overeating in this country is a totally acceptable part of our culture.

And, by my standards at least, children are being nutritionally abused. But, again, it's considered totally acceptable or at least defensible. I don't know if this generation of children will ever get angry about what's been done to them. Unfortunately, we've already convinced them that they're lazy and they play too many video games and eat too many french fries. So they may just go on the rest of their lives thinking it's their fault, that there's something inherently wrong with them or their character.

One thing that is definitely true is that images of unattainable body types do not encourage healthy lifestyles. And we're so inundated with these images that we don't even realize how bizarre they are. We're talking about men and women who spend a good portion of their time working on their bodies and appearance. On top of that, they have plastic surgery to correct their imperfections or totally change their whole appearance. Then, their photographs are altered all to hell to make them even more unrealistic.

These images can prompt people to take drastic measures that, of course, never work and often result in even less healthy outcomes. I'm not suggesting that's always the case; plenty of people are fairly unaffected by these images. But the outcomes are negative or neutral, not positive. And to suggest that they have a positive effect on people is truly ludicrous. The vast, vast majority of people are not motivated by feelings of inevitable inadequacy.

Also, I know some of you boys have an interest in there being a lot of "hot chicks" or whatever, but the sexual revolution was a waste if people are too ashamed of their bodies to take their clothes off.

[Edited on November 16, 2011 at 4:08 PM. Reason : ]

11/16/2011 4:07:11 PM

one of the more reasonable bridget posts...i still won't make out with you baby. also, feel free to make fun of the duke.

11/16/2011 4:52:05 PM

^^I guess I should correct the last sentence in the third paragraph:

The vast, vast majority of people are not meaningfully or healthfully motivated by feelings of inevitable inadequacy.

^Many years from now, in some lavish old folk's home, a saucy octogenarian is going to seduce you. BE AWARE: IT'S ME! And we will totally make out.

[Edited on November 16, 2011 at 5:32 PM. Reason : ]

11/16/2011 5:19:44 PM

Quote :

"One thing that is definitely true is that images of unattainable body types do not encourage healthy lifestyles. And we're so inundated with these images that we don't even realize how bizarre they are. We're talking about men and women who spend a good portion of their time working on their bodies and appearance. On top of that, they have plastic surgery to correct their imperfections or totally change their whole appearance. Then, their photographs are altered all to hell to make them even more unrealistic. These images can prompt people to take drastic measures that, of course, never work and often result in even less healthy outcomes. I'm not suggesting that's always the case; plenty of people are fairly unaffected by these images. But the outcomes are negative or neutral, not positive. And to suggest that they have a positive effect on people is truly ludicrous. The vast, vast majority of people are not motivated by feelings of inevitable inadequacy."

Let's get into specifics. Getting so skinny that your cheeks and eyes are sunken in isn't unobtainable for most human beings. In fact, in many third world countries, it's pretty common.

Having a lean, muscular body, which actually is healthy, is not unobtainable. Most people think it's unobtainable because they don't have the right knowledge. There's a ton of bad information floating around out there. It is possible to get the body you want with 3-4 hours at the gym each week, proper diet, and long-term dedication. Humans did not evolve to sit at a desk and type all day. That's what is bizarre, given our evolutionary roots.

[Edited on November 16, 2011 at 5:47 PM. Reason : ]

11/16/2011 5:46:52 PM

Quote :

"Also, I know some of you boys have an interest in there being a lot of "hot chicks" or whatever, but the sexual revolution was a waste if people are too ashamed of their bodies to take their clothes off."

Something I hate is how men (mostly) will talk about how unattractive people (and women in particular) should do us a courtesy and avoid showing their bodies to the maximum extent possible.

Just like the TV thing, having your view populated with disproportionately attractive bodies compared to the average population really doesn't help anyone improve their own health and body attractiveness.

In the end, we would all rather live in a world where ugly naked bodies are flaunted copiously, if it means we get to come home to a partner who is more attractive. In fact, shifting the balance this way would probably fix several other social problems we have today. So in my weird communist utopia, the elite unattractive people are picked to star in movies in and porn.

To some extent, stimulation by looking at people is like a drug dopamine response. How many people here have been on extended camping trips or in the navy? A group of sailors coming who just got off the boat would fuck a goddam scarecrow.

11/16/2011 6:31:01 PM

Quote :

"With women such as Nicole Richie, Sarah Jessica Parker, Kelly Ripa, the Olsen twins, Mischa Barton, Victoria Beckham, Kate Bosworth, and Keira Knightly being in America's living rooms night after night, there's no surprise that the media has a profound influence on women."

Are there people who find any of these women particularly attractive? Sarah Jessica Parker has famously, ah, equine features. The only reason anybody remembers the Olsen twins is that they're blond twins.

Quote :

"Get a grip, put down the sweets and start taking in less calories than you use. You'll see just how easy it is."

Yes, and then you'll die.

Quote :

"it doesn't matter what the media says. males are always going to choose healthier females over obese fatties. sorry. it's just science at this point."

Not exactly. A fair portion of the male population seems very interested in chubby or fat women, if their tastes in pornography are any indicator (where searches for heavier girls are more popular than you'd likely expect). There's also a fair amount of science pointing to the importance of gynoid fat distribution in male arousal.

Quote :

"If TV was full of women that looked like Sofía Vergara and Christina Hendricks then you..."

...would be a happy man. If Sofia Vergara is fat then I'm a god-damned chubby chaser and I shun Keira Knightley, who is cute and all but seems like she'd break in half during intercourse.

11/17/2011 1:21:16 AM

If it doesn't look like you can break her in half, there isn't much point in trying.

11/17/2011 1:25:45 AM

Quote :

"d357r0y3r: Having a lean, muscular body, which actually is healthy, is not unobtainable. Most people think it's unobtainable because they don't have the right knowledge. There's a ton of bad information floating around out there. It is possible to get the body you want with 3-4 hours at the gym each week, proper diet, and long-term dedication. Humans did not evolve to sit at a desk and type all day. That's what is bizarre, given our evolutionary roots."

You clearly have an agenda (one that I mostly agree with, by the way), and it's good you shared or whatever. But you shouldn't have shared your thoughts in response to mine.

We're very clearly talking about two totally different things. You're talking about chubby people not being motivated to lose weight because they don't have the right knowledge. I'm talking about the way that images of extremely unrealistic, physically impossible bodies affect people from all weights and body types, including some very healthy people.

It's really hard for me to believe that you didn't or don't know what I'm talking about. So I'm kind of annoyed with your "response" to me. I don't even know if we can consider it a response because it is so unrelated to my post.

Quote :

"d357r0y3r: Let's get into specifics. Getting so skinny that your cheeks and eyes are sunken in isn't unobtainable for most human beings. In fact, in many third world countries, it's pretty common."

You've actually managed to touch on something that's pretty interesting in my opinion, and part of me wants to share. But you're being so GD obtuse right now that there's no point. You've successfully shut me up on the internet. Good work.

11/17/2011 6:37:46 AM

Quote :

"You're talking about chubby people not being motivated to lose weight because they don't have the right knowledge. I'm talking about the way that images of extremely unrealistic, physically impossible bodies affect people from all weights and body types, including some very healthy people."

I'm not just talking about chubby people not being motivated to lose weight. This also applies to people that are at a healthy weight but still aren't completely satisfied with their bodies. "Conventional wisdom" says that you have to give up eating all the foods you love and spend 12 hours a week at the gym if you want a "beach body". That's simply not true. A big issue here is a lack of proper fitness/nutrition education and misconceptions about what "works" and what doesn't.

I'm not trying to be obtuse, just trying to get you to pin down what counts as unobtainable.

11/17/2011 9:54:05 AM

please post it, b/c id like to be as lazy as possible and still be more fit (then again, i weight 140lbs at 5'11).

j/k though I do wonder why Bridget got all in a tiff. sure, these images affect everyone, but i think there has been a fair amount of "love your body" movements recently which proport that fat is fine (as has been noted dozens of times already in this thread). it isn't like people like the olsens haven't been publicly ridiculed for their thinness (or ugliness of SJP as noted earlier).

11/17/2011 10:06:20 AM

Quote :

"but i think there has been a fair amount of "love your body" movements recently which proport that fat is fine (as has been noted dozens of times already in this thread)"

Unfortunately, there is a scientific consensus about the role of fat and muscle in long term health. Anyone who likes these "love your body" movements is not going to like the evidence.

1) Thinner people are faced with fewer health problems, and BMI is extraordinarily, in fact, absurdly good at predicting this.

This book is great:
http://books.google.com/books?id=eKGvGksKdloC
It's not that there are not other factors, but BMI and smoking account for more health problems, far and away better than anything else we know about. So basically, a lower BMI makes you health, and whatever else makes you particularly healthy we don't know about.

I've heard some other studied have looked at belly fat and have obtained just as good or better correlations with disease incidence, and there's probably something to that. Pick whichever one you want, it comes down to weight.

We don't understand evolution. It doesn't make sense to us why it does what it does, and some of what it does doesn't make any sense. But it would appear with current evidence that there is both a health benefit to being thin and a predisposition to see thin people as attractive. The connection is so obvious that I don't have to say it. Does this go against other things we expect from evolution? Yeah, storing fat is advantageous in the wild too. So yes, we don't know what we're talking about.

2) No, #1 is not changed by the mass being muscle versus fat.

A great study is summarized here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIRCOM0PX2E
They studied 131 years of baseball, which they selected because it's basically the best data set going back so far, being so reliable, and being so huge. They understood the culture of the record taking, and throughout the entire history of the MLB, measurements of weight and height were self-policed to be completely accurate, for reasons specific to the culture.

More mass resulted in more death. Bottom line. In fact, if you become a star hitter, packing major major major guns, you're probably going to die. Early. Very early.

3) Extended life can be obtained by near starvation.

Hopefully you've already heard this. Sorry kids, fact of life.

11/17/2011 11:13:04 AM

It would be saddened if I only the only aspect of life worth valuing was its length. Extend your life with near-starvation all you want; I'm going to enjoy mine.

11/17/2011 11:56:17 AM

Somewhere in the middle between the anorexic celebrities and the obese, exercise-averse general population
is a third goal I think we should all be aiming for: to be fit and confident about our bodies. How about some more athletic women who can actually menstruate, and dudes who have gotten their muscles from manual labor?

(The weather beaten hottie working on a roof I passed the other day comes to mind).

[Edited on November 17, 2011 at 7:55 PM. Reason : fggh]

11/17/2011 7:55:14 PM

People talk about these "anorexic", waif-like, freaky-skinny female celebrities...

sure, there are some, and for most part, people are like "Ehhh, yeah, she's freaky-skinny."

I think most of the ones that people think are hot are just in shape. I just don't see a widespread culture of physical unobtainium in the bodies of our celebrities. I see a bunch of fat slobs walking down the street, in the mall, and most of all, in the grocery store, and I think that we've gotten so used to it that it's remarkable when someone is actually in good shape.

11/17/2011 8:52:50 PM

Quote :

" I think most of the ones that people think are hot are just in shape. I just don't see a widespread culture of physical unobtainium in the bodies of our celebrities. I see a bunch of fat slobs walking down the street, in the mall, and most of all, in the grocery store, and I think that we've gotten so used to it that it's remarkable when someone is actually in good shape."

Bingo

11/17/2011 8:55:17 PM

I will say though, there is a fine line between too waifish and thin and trim. My friend's ex wife went from being
nice and trim to losing all her boobs, seeing every muscle and vein in her arm, and being an overtanned, sunken jaw mess because she was running herself into oblivion .

She looks much better with some curves, because she looks healthier, fits her clothes and seems generally happier.

11/18/2011 11:23:03 AM

^ sure it wasn't meth?

11/18/2011 11:26:25 AM

Quote :

"I think most of the ones that people think are hot are just in shape. I just don't see a widespread culture of physical unobtainium in the bodies of our celebrities. I see a bunch of fat slobs walking down the street, in the mall, and most of all, in the grocery store, and I think that we've gotten so used to it that it's remarkable when someone is actually in good shape."

The "unobtanium" is time and money. Celebrities can hire a physical trainer to craft a personalized workout which they can exactly follow to keep them in perfect shape or they can get surgery for things they can't change naturally. Not everyone has access to this (not all fat people don't also) but I didn't start out trying to debate the fat vs thin. The point is that people see uniformly skinny celebrities and some develop unhealthy eating behaviors as a result.

Quote :

"Most people think it's unobtainable because they don't have the right knowledge. There's a ton of bad information floating around out there."

why is this? why can't the media help people by providing positive messages and the "right knowledge"

Quote :

"Somewhere in the middle between the anorexic celebrities and the obese, exercise-averse general population is a third goal I think we should all be aiming for: to be fit and confident about our bodies."

this would be ideal

Quote :

"It is possible to get the body you want with 3-4 hours at the gym each week, proper diet, and long-term dedication."

What if you are already fit/beautiful by anyone else's definition but your own? "the body you want" isn't always the best option for you. I know a girl who works out 3-4 hours at a time and is constantly worried about her weight. Why isn't she confident in how she looks? (she looks good)

not everyone has the same body type, you can be an endomorph, mesomorph, ectomorph or have other genetic factors, so your formula won't necessarily make everyone look like a celebrity (but it would make everyone healthy)



Can some of you post your thoughts to the site? It's still pretty empty on there.

[Edited on November 18, 2011 at 3:35 PM. Reason : .]

11/18/2011 3:22:45 PM

I don't think I know a single woman who exercises and eats healthy who I wouldn't date based on physical attributes.

I have to admit that I find even the act of talking about celebrities to be about as productive as masturbation. The unobtainium is pretty irrelevant unless you're a prick.

11/18/2011 4:14:23 PM

Um, personal trainers and surgeries aren't needed to not be a fatass. It isn't expensive to not be fat, and it doesn't take all that much time.

Please, if we had a nation full of in-shape people who lagged their celebrity counterparts by a tiny amount on average, then maybe that claim would at least warrant consideration, but that's not the case. The facts are that we're collectively lazy, sedentary, and eat like shit and/or in massive quantities.

11/18/2011 5:46:19 PM

are you trolling?

Quote :

"Um, personal trainers and surgeries aren't needed to not be a fatass. It isn't expensive to not be fat, and it doesn't take all that much time."

I'm trying to discuss the people who aren't overweight, but compare themselves to uniformly skinny celebrities and think that they are overweight.


This is not the topic of my project, but it does cost more to be eat healthy - think about what kind of food is cheapest in America

11/19/2011 3:31:18 AM

Quote :

"I'm trying to discuss the people who aren't overweight, but compare themselves to uniformly skinny celebrities and think that they are overweight. "

Useless without pics.



Discuss.

11/19/2011 10:06:17 AM

Quote :

"I'm trying to discuss the people who aren't overweight, but compare themselves to uniformly skinny celebrities and think that they are overweight. "

i dont think he's trolling. i think he's saying you are talking about a small minority since >50% of the population are fat slobs.

[Edited on November 19, 2011 at 5:21 PM. Reason : and of the <50%, many do not necessarily fall in your bucket]

11/19/2011 5:21:02 PM

Frankly, I think it's shameful that more emphasis isn't being placed on being healthy. The fact that the majority of our population is now overweight is terrifying. All the Dove commercials in the world doesn't change the fact that America is setting itself up for major health issues in the immediate future. There's nothing good about being fat, there's nothing ok about feeding your children sugar laden shit.

It's appalling what has happened to our country in the last 20 years. The modern sedentary lifestyle is quite literally killing us.

11/19/2011 5:26:22 PM

^^ that's roughly what I'm saying

11/19/2011 6:58:54 PM

Dove isn't an "it's ok to be fat" thing, it's a "women aren't all supermodels" thing. Which is similar to the aim of my group's project.
I understand that our country has an obesity problem, but I don't think what i'm talking about will make it any worse. I think we're fat because we produce a lot of terrible food in massive quantities and make it really cheap, cheaper than natural healthy food.

Do you see combating eating disorders / body image issues as being in opposition to combating obesity?

11/20/2011 2:14:37 AM