I'm going to embed a video about the Egyptian elections because I'm premium like that baby.



A few thoughts...

- The crux of the current worries about nations like Egypt and Tunisia is whether or not they will have actually democratic elections. There is no doubt they will have elections, but the worry is that they'll be hollow and won by intimidation like last century.

- Some parties have already backed out of Egypt's elections. This is staking their party's viability, as well as individual's votes, on the claim that these won't be fair elections.

How do we do this? The United States itself is not immune from "technical fouls" in elections. Yet we still refuse to change any rules of the stupid stupid electoral college. Campaign finance reform is also in the cards.

It makes me wonder if there's some kind of role for international refereeing of elections. I mean, I don't want Denmark to have any influence on our politics, but can we invite them to come over and verify that elections have a result loyal to how the people vote? I think that would be a good thing.

Eventually, can't we move beyond figurehead on figurehead action? When we deal with another country politically we need to actually consider the degree with which the representatives are representing their people, and we've already started down this road. Look at dealing with Iraq, I think we don't trust anything their government says, and rightfully so, we were there when that dilapidated piece of shit got created! (maybe the UK says the same thing about us )

I'm not for a world government, but I think we should have higher expectations of our role as world citizens by the time we're old. I'm pretty sketchy on the details though.

11/27/2011 11:58:38 PM

I've been advocating a "bitcoin archetecture" type voting system.


They will give you a public and private key with your vote, the public key can be tracked online, by anyone, anywhere, at anytime.

The private key will be your "password" that nobody else knows but you. Once you vote, the private key will change so you can't change your vote.

You'll be able to track your vote in a list by your public key and you'll be able to see everyone else's vote (after voting closes) to ensure your vote matches your choice yet preserves anonymity.

11/28/2011 12:09:01 AM

^ there's only one problem with that, how do old people vote?

but seriously though, it seems like it requires some amount of tech savvy-ness from everyone. Plus, what do you do if you think the #s in the database don't match what your vote or hash code or whatever says?

11/28/2011 12:14:11 AM

Satoshi Nakamoto will rule the world

11/28/2011 4:33:44 AM

Quote :

"It makes me wonder if there's some kind of role for international refereeing of elections. I mean, I don't want Denmark to have any influence on our politics, but can we invite them to come over and verify that elections have a result loyal to how the people vote? I think that would be a good thing."

This actually already happens here in the US and elsewhere around the world. The OSCE regularly observes and supervises elections in their member states, including the US (anyone interested in participating in this type of thing overseas PM me). IFES and others observe and supervise elections throughout the world.

The problem with election observation is two-fold: The host government has to specifically invite these organizations to carry out an observation mission, which often comes with caveats. And the report of findings is not binding and easily dismissed by host governments (exceptions being places like Ukraine leading to the Orange Revolution).

Election supervision may be a better solution in Egypts case but it carries with it a whole host potential problems. Supervision basically involves an organization overseeing the entire process and having the ability granted by the host government to implement changes and take action as necessary. However, this raises the likelihood of people/parties decrying the process as rife with foreign influence.

11/28/2011 10:07:47 AM

I guess I had in mind a purely observational role.

I would imagine that it would be like a gold star. The international organization gives the approval that, yes, they verified that it was free and fair or not. Governments will ignore it until it becomes the standard. After that, no government will be able to survive without it.

11/28/2011 12:39:30 PM

Are peaceful citizens being told they have to "pay up" or go to jail/get killed? Then it's not free or fair, no matter how well the electoral system has been designed.

11/28/2011 12:41:13 PM

Quote :

"Are peaceful citizens being told they have to "pay up" or go to jail/get killed? "

I have no idea what this is referring to.

11/28/2011 12:44:49 PM

Do you know of any "Democratic" governments that don't tax their citizens?

11/28/2011 12:50:33 PM

lolwut

11/28/2011 1:08:01 PM

Do I know of any government that doesn't tax its citizens? Semantically, pretty much every dollar that comes into the government can be called a tax. Maybe they could tax non-citizens? The existence of government, it would seem, depends on taxes.

Even if I did have a counter-example, that has nothing to do with the apparatus of democracy. Only the apparatus of government itself.

11/28/2011 1:09:12 PM

Quote :

"The existence of government, it would seem, depends on taxes."

Yes.

11/28/2011 1:17:48 PM

Since you've gone off the deep end again is this the point where I ask by what authority you own land and other things?

11/28/2011 1:48:31 PM

I don't own land. I do own myself, and I do own my labor. If you disagree, then kindly fuck off.

11/28/2011 2:02:59 PM

I'm sorry you guys but can we get this back on topic, by which I mean on the topic of applying Bitcoin to elections?

11/28/2011 2:13:43 PM

People in Egypt are upset over something I don't really understand. Not sure if bitcoin vote validation tools will help.

What if you protest an election by dropping out, and then later it turns out "welp, turned out it was a fair election"? Do you then protest that it was unfair based on the fact that you didn't run?

11/28/2011 2:17:24 PM

Quote :

"I would imagine that it would be like a gold star. The international organization gives the approval that, yes, they verified that it was free and fair or not. Governments will ignore it until it becomes the standard. After that, no government will be able to survive without it. "

This seems to be the basis of *most* of the election observation missions that I have participated in (there was a country or two that simply didn't give a shit that the rest of the world knew that it was rigged). I'd imagine that there are a number of organizations that are participating in Egypt in an observation roll and there are very likely some that are assisting with the actual running of the election (although in an advisory type role rather than authoritative).

11/28/2011 2:46:15 PM

just to add...

there's also the matter of voter privacy and freedom from intimidation, which are kind of connected. Even if local results are made known, that can still be a problem. I thought one of Mugabe's strategies was to harass and plunder villages that voted for the opposition in the last election, although that's really only on net since there were surely people who voted both ways.

Then again, we sort of do a similar thing here with pork barrel spending. Vote for the corrupt ones or else you'll be subsidizing the largess throughout the rest of the nation.

[Edited on November 28, 2011 at 3:06 PM. Reason : ]

11/28/2011 3:06:10 PM

Quote :

"I'm sorry you guys but can we get this back on topic, by which I mean on the topic of applying Bitcoin to elections?"

I'm not saying use bitcoins,

I'm say use just one of the principals in the architecture of bitcoin. That is, a public and private key.

11/28/2011 4:33:03 PM

^ yes I know, they had a whole TED talk about it

I don't think that this very tech savvy voting method would do anything about the violence though. People have withdrawn because of the violence.

11/28/2011 5:14:26 PM

What about marking your ballot with blood, then using DNA verification (identical twins kinda confound this tho)

11/29/2011 12:56:52 PM

The answer is Ipads.

11/29/2011 6:43:25 PM