Quote :

"Lowe's pulls ads from 'All-American Muslim' after 'ordinary' portrayal protested A TLC reality show offering a positive portrayal of Muslim life has come under protest and at least one advertiser has pulled its support. Hardware store giant Lowe’s has yanked ads from the series after the Florida Family Association encouraged members to email the program’s advertisers. “The show profiles only Muslims that appear to be ordinary folks while excluding many Islamic believers whose agenda poses a clear and present danger to liberties and traditional values that the majority of Americans cherish,” the group said about the show, a docu-soap chronicling everyday Muslim families in Dearborn, Michigan that debuted last month. “Clearly this program is attempting to manipulate Americans into ignoring the threat of jihad and to influence them to believe that being concerned about the jihad threat would somehow victimize these nice people in this show.” The organization posted a letter allegedly from a Lowe’s representative agreeing to pull its ads: “While we continue to advertise on various cable networks, including TLC, there are certain programs that do not meet Lowe’s advertising guidelines, including the show you brought to our attention. Lowe’s will no longer be advertising on that program.” Lowe’s then acknowledged and defended its decision on Twitter: “We did not pull our ads based solely on the complaints or emails of any one group. It is never our intent to alienate anyone. Lowe’s values diversity of thought in everyone, including our employees and prospective customers.”"

http://insidetv.ew.com/2011/12/09/ads-all-american-muslim/?hpt=hp_t2

Their response to the situation:

Quote :

"It appears that we managed to step into a hotly contested debate with strong views from virtually every angle and perspective – social, political and otherwise – and we’ve managed to make some people very unhappy. We are sincerely sorry. We have a strong commitment to diversity and inclusion, across our workforce and our customers, and we’re proud of that longstanding commitment. Lowe’s has received a significant amount of communication on this program, from every perspective possible. Individuals and groups have strong political and societal views on this topic, and this program became a lighting rod for many of those views. As a result we did pull our advertising on this program. We believe it is best to respectfully defer to communities, individuals and groups to discuss and consider such issues of importance. We strongly support and respect the right of our customers, the community at large, and our employees to have different views. If we have made anyone question that commitment, we apologize."

from http://www.facebook.com/lowes

In other words, "hey guys, it's not our job to say that Muslims maybe aren't all terrorists. That's for YOU to decide!! DIVERSITY!!!"

I, personally, have always shopped at Lowe's over similar types of places, but I won't be shopping there again. This is fucking disgusting behavior. The comment thread on their Facebook post reads like a transcript from a Klan rally, btw.

12/11/2011 10:51:36 AM

12/11/2011 10:58:40 AM

just saw this

fucking pathetic

12/11/2011 12:54:20 PM

home depot is better anyway.

12/11/2011 12:58:09 PM

http://www.burkebrothershardware.com/

12/11/2011 1:24:09 PM

Quote :

"In other words, "hey guys, it's not our job to say that Muslims maybe aren't all terrorists. That's for YOU to decide!! DIVERSITY!!!""

It's actually not their jobs to do that. they pulled out just because they did not want to alienate any customer base. If you think otherwise you are way oversensitive. They made a business decision and that's it/

Oh and Lowes >> HD

12/11/2011 2:48:49 PM

^ yeah that's the point. They pulled out because they didn't want to alienate the racist portion of their customer base. pretty lame.

12/11/2011 3:00:51 PM

so let's attack the racist here. It's not Lowe's job to defend what's right in america. They are a publicly traded company that seeks only to make a profit selling home building supplies.

granted the Florida Family Association are a bunch of racist, but so is, oh, i'd say 20% of America (how's that for pulling a number out of my ass -- hey the tea party swept congress last cycle). I'm just saying, racist gotta spend money on hardware too.

12/11/2011 3:11:05 PM

you do realize this is a Rethugnican-friendly store we're talking about right

I mean they're not as malevolent as The Home Depot but still

12/11/2011 3:20:42 PM

Why is it that StateName Family Associations/Councils are always on the offensive trying to damage other peoples lives and families, rather than trying to do something positive for their families?

12/11/2011 3:30:30 PM

Most big corporations are. Just saying... If you want to go down that route it would be akin to trying to boycott china.

[Edited on December 11, 2011 at 3:39 PM. Reason : .]

12/11/2011 3:38:34 PM

Quote :

" so let's attack the racist here. It's not Lowe's job to defend what's right in america. They are a publicly traded company that seeks only to make a profit selling building supplies."

I'm not asure what point you're trying to make here.

It is certainly one way to run A company to not have a vision, ethos, or responsibility, but this isn't the only way, and it's certainly not the best.

corporations can have corporate responsibility, they knew this even in teddy roosevelts days. This is what ows talks about with not putting profits above people.

If you are saying that the most powerful hegemonies in our society should operate with conscience, then you are insane. This isn't how we should let things work.

12/11/2011 3:58:22 PM

That should say "without conscience" but it's too hard to edit in this crappy Android browser.

12/11/2011 4:00:02 PM

well somebody here already indicated that they will not be shopping here anymore.

that is the appropriate response-

home depot has long been superior anyway.

does anyone watch this show? i have a couple times and find it to be unappealing for a variety of reasons, then again, i despise most reality tv anyway. i wonder, does it draw the ire of muslims or have the reviews been generally positive?

12/11/2011 4:38:46 PM

like all "reality tv", the truth gets lost on the cutting room floor, anyway. I don't give a fuck about this issue and will still shop at lowe's when it's convenient for me

12/11/2011 5:13:12 PM

This isn't Lowe's supporting their customer base's racist opinions. This is Lowe's making a business decision. They made it pretty clear that they support diversity, but they don't want to piss off a huge part of their customer base. Yeah, it's pandering to idiots, but they're not out to make statements, just to make money.

12/11/2011 6:06:54 PM

Haha lowes.

12/11/2011 7:02:17 PM

Quote :

"This isn't Lowe's supporting their customer base's racist opinions. This is Lowe's making a business decision. They made it pretty clear that they support diversity, but they don't want to piss off a huge part of their customer base."

This is ABSOLUTELY supporting racist opinions. A single group of racist dirtbags in Florida hates Muslims so much that they threatened a boycott of companies running ads during a show about actual, real live human beings because they do not depict these men, women, and children as misogynists, terrorists, and murderers bent on imposing Sharia law on the United States of America.

Quote :

"Yeah, it's pandering to idiots, but they're not out to make statements, just to make money."

I completely agree. They are out to make money. Their goal is not to make a statement, but they have.


Take this image. I could complain that it depicts an ordinary black woman, when in reality we all know that black women are all lazy, crack addicted welfare queens. If she's going to be on the site at all, I refuse to shop at Lowe's again until she's smoking a crack pipe, has 7 babies, and is wearing a fur coat that she bought with all of the food stamps she scammed off the government.

Lowes has every right to do what they want to to retain my business, but the way in which they respond will reveal how they are willing to deal with matters such as these in moral and ethical terms. Choices like this do not exist in a vacuum.

12/11/2011 7:40:38 PM

Quote :

"Take this image. I could complain that it depicts an ordinary black woman, when in reality we all know that black women are all lazy, crack addicted welfare queens. If she's going to be on the site at all, I refuse to shop at Lowe's again until she's smoking a crack pipe, has 7 babies, and is wearing a fur coat that she bought with all of the food stamps she scammed off the government."

You're making a huge leap from not advertising on a program, to not hiring a race of people.

[Edited on December 11, 2011 at 7:45 PM. Reason : .]

12/11/2011 7:44:48 PM

From now on, I'll get all my supplies at Lowe's.

12/11/2011 7:53:18 PM

^lol
and so it begins...


From now on, I'll get all my supplies at Home Depot.

[Edited on December 11, 2011 at 8:33 PM. Reason : .]

12/11/2011 8:32:58 PM

...even though Home Depot is even more Rethug-laden?

12/12/2011 6:15:36 AM

p.s. those of you in Menards territory should stay away from them too, they're even worse: http://web.archive.org/web/20101228103828/http://www.milwaukeemagazine.com/currentIssue/full_feature_story.asp?NewMessageID=13642

12/12/2011 6:55:55 AM

How dare that corporation say they don't want to be involved in a political argument. 'Big Hardware' at it's worst, ladies and gentlemen.

12/12/2011 9:21:27 AM

Again, saying that all Muslims aren't monsters is not a political statement.

12/12/2011 9:43:07 AM

^Did they agree or disagree with any of that?

12/12/2011 9:49:20 AM

When did Muslim become a race?

12/12/2011 10:00:30 AM

Yes Lowes clearly made the right call here. The Florida Family Association is holding true to the teachings of Christ by fostering an atmosphere of hate and bigotry



*sarcasm*

[Edited on December 12, 2011 at 10:09 AM. Reason : .]

12/12/2011 10:01:12 AM

Quote :

"The show profiles only Muslims that appear to be ordinary folks while excluding many Islamic believers whose agenda poses a clear and present danger to liberties and traditional values that the majority of Americans cherish"

facepalm.

I mean... this logic... just take this logic and apply it to some other group, almost any other group.

This show is about [group members] while excluding the serial murdering [group members]. I mean holy crap, I can win any argument using this.

Quote :

"Take this image. I could complain that it depicts an ordinary black woman, when in reality we all know that black women are all lazy, crack addicted welfare queens. If she's going to be on the site at all, I refuse to shop at Lowe's again until she's smoking a crack pipe, has 7 babies, and is wearing a fur coat that she bought with all of the food stamps she scammed off the government."

lol, fantastic.

Only, you don't need to say "we all know that black women are all lazy, crack addicted welfare queens". You only need to point out that it excludes the crack queens. It shows an ordinary looking black woman, but we know that there are black women out there after the American way of life. The existence of those black women should, of course, prevent us from portraying black women as "normal".

[Edited on December 12, 2011 at 10:05 AM. Reason : ]

12/12/2011 10:01:28 AM

I don't understand why everyone is acting like Lowes took a position on anything. Their statement says they just don't want to be a part of a spat between a TV show and advocacy groups. Their actions show the exact same thing. They didn't pull their advertising from all of TLC in a show of protest or anything, they just backed out of one show so their name wouldn't be in the mix.

Seems like clalias had it right. If you want to be mad at someone, get mad at the "family values" groups for making an issue out of it.

12/12/2011 10:16:35 AM

^
Seriously. They even made it a point that they are committed to "diversity and inclusion" in their workforce. They just prefer to leave issues of contention to advocacy groups and individuals. It would be a nice gesture to keep the advertising but, ultimately, they have an obligation to their employees and shareholders to profit.. I can't fault them for pulling the ad--it's just passive neutrality. On the other side you have companies like Chik-Fil-A who have actually given money to anti-gay marriage campaign. That is active support.


[Edited on December 12, 2011 at 10:23 AM. Reason : .]

12/12/2011 10:21:05 AM

Lowes reps said the following, and they haven't said anything to indicate that this is not still their position. This is the official word of the company as it stands.

Quote :

"there are certain programs that do not meet Lowe’s advertising guidelines, including the show you brought to our attention"

Quote :

"We did not pull our ads based solely on the complaints or emails of any one group. It is never our intent to alienate anyone. "

Wait, so what "advertising guidelines" does running commercials on a show called "All-American Muslim" violate?

yo dawg, just back up a second. The show portrays Muslims as ordinary people. So wait. This shouldn't have been new. Muslims should have always been, and should always be portrayed as normal people.

If the show was about Islam, both the advocacy group and Lowes decision could be reasonable. But it's not. It's about social progress in integration of Muslims as a civil group in society. In other words, what the United States if fucking built on.

The show exists to expose prejudice against Muslims. Not Islam. We already know Lowes, TLC, or any fucking corporation incorporated in the United States do not have any elements specific to the Islamic faith in their values (although the same can't be said for Christianity).

12/12/2011 10:43:20 AM

Quote :

""what "advertising guidelines" does running commercials on a show called "All-American Muslim" violate?"

Maybe "Don't advertise on programs with controversial topics". Unfortunately, this program is controversial. I wish it wasn't, but in this country, it is.

This is not Lowe's being bigoted. This is Lowe's weighing the costs of advertising on this program. They determined that they're better off pulling the ad, based on their customer base. If there is any question, always assume that a corporation is acting in the interest of maximizing profits.

[Edited on December 12, 2011 at 10:51 AM. Reason : .]

12/12/2011 10:47:09 AM

And by controversial, you mean that it upsets a significant number of people, right or wrong.

And that skirts the other issue, that no one faults Lowes for the existence of an issue that is controversial, but that they took a side on it, and which side they took. The question that matters is what should be the "neutral" or "default" option.

Again, the idea that Muslims are ordinary people is an amazingly obvious fact. The point of the show is that this should be a non-story, but it's not to many bigoted Americans.

Lowes selectively pulled advertising from the show. How much attention do you think they would have received if they responded to the advocacy groups with non-action? Do you think they were the only advertisers on the program? Do you think the program still plans to run shows and run advertisements in those shows?

12/12/2011 11:07:35 AM

Quote :

"Lowes selectively pulled advertising from the show. "

They pulled a commercial from a show that was singled out as being controversial. Who made it controversial?

12/12/2011 11:16:33 AM

Quote :

"And by controversial, you mean that it upsets a significant number of people, right or wrong."

Right.

Quote :

"And that skirts the other issue, that no one faults Lowes for the existence of an issue that is controversial, but that they took a side on it, and which side they took. The question that matters is what should be the "neutral" or "default" option."

They did not take a side. Actually, you could argue that they, as a board of directors (or whoever), believe in diversity, but chose to pull the ad because they determined running the ad would put them at loss rather than a gain. They have an obligation to support their workers and stockholders by making profits.

Quote :

"Lowes selectively pulled advertising from the show."

Right. Because they determined it to be controversial and harmful to their profits. Not because "muslims".

Quote :

"How much attention do you think they would have received if they responded to the advocacy groups with non-action?"

I don't know. They weighed their options and made a decision. That's their choice as a business.

Quote :

"Do you think they were the only advertisers on the program? Do you think the program still plans to run shows and run advertisements in those shows?"

Other companies with more tolerant customer bases can and will continue to run ads. It is not a business's obligation to run ads on a show.

Question for people ITT: Do you donate money/time to every issue you deem important? If not, does that make you "disgusting"?

[Edited on December 12, 2011 at 11:27 AM. Reason : .]

12/12/2011 11:21:56 AM

would be interesting to see them show these "ordinary" people discuss israel.

of course they would never do that, because it would ruin the entire premise of the show.

12/12/2011 11:46:55 AM

will be interesting to see if it lasts more than one season.

12/12/2011 11:49:28 AM

Quote :

"Because they determined it to be controversial and harmful to their profits. Not because "muslims"."

What the heck does this mean?! Why was it controversial? Do you believe we can just insert some firewall between the reason people are offended and the label of "controversial"? At some point you can't engage in appeasement anymore.

If you're meeting with a company for a business deal and they refuse to negotiate with women in the room, maybe you roll with it, do some political maneuvering with your female executives, and get the deal. But if that's going to be public, there's a good chance it crosses a line.

Quote :

"would be interesting to see them show these "ordinary" people discuss israel."

I ask my Muslim friends this question. They support Palestine and don't support Israel. Seems pretty clear cut to me. There's an issue with 2 sides. I don't care for either of these sides myself. Ask them if they support a 2-state solution. That would not ruin the premise of the show.

12/12/2011 12:03:46 PM

Quote :

"What the heck does this mean?! Why was it controversial? Do you believe we can just insert some firewall between the reason people are offended and the label of "controversial"? At some point you can't engage in appeasement anymore."

Come on dude, are you being deliberately obtuse? A good portion of this country (and a larger portion of Lowe's shoppers) immediately associates Muslims with terrorists. Any show attempting to portray Muslims as good people is controversial to them.

I don't know if they made the right decision by pulling the ad, but it certainly wasn't a bigoted move on their part.

[Edited on December 12, 2011 at 12:12 PM. Reason : .]

12/12/2011 12:06:42 PM

so associating all Muslims with terrorists is bigoted but pulling the ad is not bigoted.

Again, some magic wall seems to exist between these things in your mind. Lowes said this:

Quote :

"We did not pull our ads based solely on the complaints or emails of any one group."

So Lowes has some rationale in mind for why the show is upsetting. They're not, and they can't be, disconnected from the reasons people don't like the show. Lowes takes there to be a reason that the show is upsetting to a large contingent of Americans. I do not believe that Lowes, themselves, has vocalized this reason.

We know that Lowes doesn't want to upset anyone. We know that Lowes would rather have everyone forget about the topic. But the reasons they've given (and yes the burden for giving a reason lies with them) for their action are vague.

This is a clearly bigoted message from Lowes. The show is controversial. Why? Because people don't like it presumably. Why? I'm sure they would rather not speculate. This is the exact antithesis of social progress. They are making decisions based on the power of the majority, regardless of how vile the reasons behind that are. No one is claiming that Lowes is directly hostile to a faith, but...

They're facilitating hate.

And no, that's not ok.

12/12/2011 12:43:41 PM

Quote :

"Right. Because they determined it to be controversial and harmful to their profits. Not because "muslims"."

12/12/2011 12:52:52 PM

Quote :

"so associating all Muslims with terrorists is bigoted but pulling the ad is not bigoted. Again, some magic wall seems to exist between these things in your mind."

Because there is an enormous difference, and I'm really confused why you can't see it. Pulling the ad is just Lowe's detaching themselves from the issue. They don't have an obligation to give money to the show, when it results in an overall loss for them. Advertising is about money. I ask again: Do you donate money/time to every issue you deem important? If not, does that make you a disgusting bigot?

Quote :

""We did not pull our ads based solely on the complaints or emails of any one group.""

This is just an attempt to distance themselves from the Florida Family Association.

Quote :

"But the reasons they've given (and yes the burden for giving a reason lies with them) for their action are vague."

What should they say? "We pulled the ad because we ran a cost-effect analysis and determined it to be harmful to our profits, because many of our customers don't like Muslims". That would be terrible PR. Their reason is "We don't want to take sides in an issue that is controversial to our customer base". That was pretty clear in their response.

[Edited on December 12, 2011 at 1:11 PM. Reason : .]

12/12/2011 1:07:42 PM

^yep. Don't agree with it at all from a social standpoint, but it was undenyably a good business decision...and they're actually doing a pretty good job of damage control in their responses.

12/12/2011 1:22:51 PM

12/12/2011 1:26:08 PM

Quote :

"We pulled the ad because we ran a cost-effect analysis "

obviously they did no such thing

Quote :

"That would be terrible PR. "

Obviously the current PR is worse than what not pulling the ad would have caused. Again, how many companies pulled ads? Where is the backlash against those companies who are still in the game? I believe this program will still run and ads will still play, and how many of those ads will cause a PR backlash?

As a civil society, we owe it to our democracy to make this even worse PR for Lowes. Your point is that the question of morality should not matter to Lowes because they are required (by corporate mandate) to take the optimal profit path. Fine. As all libertarian stances do, this passes the buck to somewhere else, and that is to customers and citizens.

We should not allow this to be a optimal revenue solution for Lowes, because it is wrong. That's what your argument results in. We know that a large number of Americans harbor hate toward all Muslims, and this is exact fucking thing that the subject matter of the show demonstrates. Indifference toward this hatred is wrong on the part of Lowes and is wrong on the part of anyone who condones Lowe's decision. At no point in the decision chain, anywhere in the decision chain, is it morally permissible to be indifferent to hate.

[Edited on December 12, 2011 at 1:31 PM. Reason : ]

12/12/2011 1:28:50 PM

I have a hard time with this:

Quote :

"At no point in the decision chain, anywhere in the decision chain, is it morally permissible to be indifferent to hate."

Hate itself isn't innately immoral. My supporting a racist's rights to have racist thought is not itself a commendation of racism.

It only becomes immoral when it causes suffering in another conscious being, in my opinion. Now there is a good argument to be made that it's likely that hateful thoughts will inform hateful actions but there's no guarantee that those actions will automatically cause suffering to other conscious beings. I prefer to err on the side opposite the thought police.

[Edited on December 12, 2011 at 1:37 PM. Reason : likely]

12/12/2011 1:36:29 PM

Quote :

"They're facilitating hate."

Wow, so anyone not buying ads for this show is facilitating hate?

12/12/2011 1:41:09 PM

@disco

No one is arguing that legal action should be taken against Lowes because of their action. I mean, how in the heck did any civil rights movement make progress?

Quote :

"so anyone not buying ads for this show is facilitating hate?"

It's the notion that this show was singled out. Again, Lowes has not and will not give a coherent reason for pulling the ad, so we are left to speculate to some degree. But the show focused on the problems that Muslims have living in this country. The reason that the advocacy groups gave was that the show didn't have extremists, so it gave the false impression.

Now, do you believe that Muslims must be portrayed as extremists to be accurate? Lowes pulled ads in the wake of those complaints. They didn't fail to buy ads, they pulled ads.

12/12/2011 1:53:31 PM

Quote :

"It's the notion that this show was singled out. Again, Lowes has not and will not give a coherent reason for pulling the ad, so we are left to speculate to some degree."

I've already explained why this show was singled out, and why Lowe's will not give a 100% coherent response.

Quote :

"Lowes pulled ads in the wake of those complaints."

They pulled ads in the wake of the the complaints, not solely because of or in support of.

Quote :

"They didn't fail to buy ads, they pulled ads."

The difference here is pretty much irrelevant. They made a decision to advertise and changed their mind when they realized it could cause controversy for them. "Lowe's purchased broad ad space on TLC, and they just wanted to remove themselves from a polarizing issue - hence pulling ads from this one show." -clalias


[Edited on December 12, 2011 at 2:13 PM. Reason : .]

12/12/2011 2:06:58 PM