This is going to get long, but I'll make every attempt to abbreviate it as much as possible. I am really looking for suggestions/advice/etc from anyone with children who may have dealt with something similar.

My wife and I, who have been married for nearly 12 years, had our first child last year. She is 16 months old now, and is absolutely the greatest thing to ever happen to me. I could seriously write a novel on how awesome she is, but I don't want to derail my own thread.

Anyway, I get along with her family really well. Her dad is really chill, and we often watch sports together, shoot guns, hang out, etc. Her sister's husband is one of my best friends in the world. My nephews are awesome - I dressed up as Santa last year and gave them presents. The only issue I have is with her mother.

Now I am sure anyone reading this is thinking this is typical - guys not getting along with their mother-in-law, but this goes way beyond that. There are a lot of things that really rub me the wrong way when it comes to her, but I have always (until now) just bit my tongue. Over the course of our marriage, she has often come to visit, and she blatantly disrespects any rules or standards I have for my house. Just to cite a couple examples, once she took my Pomeranian mix and got him shaved, including his tail, because she thought it would be neat. I was not amused, and made it very clear to never ever do that again. But sure enough, a few months later, she takes him and once again gets him shaved without my permission. Another time, despite my wishes that nobody eats in the bedrooms, she left a half eaten plum on the bedspread in our guest room. I asked her to please throw it away, and she responded that she'd "get around to it" - well, an hour later we were forcing our other dog to vomit because she had gotten into the room and eaten the plum, seed and all.

I could go on and on, but I only use these examples as an illustration. As an isolated instance, most of the things she does would not be a big issue, but the aggregate is just very frustrating. She visits my house for weeks and does what she wants, despite any requests I make to the contrary.

As I said before, I generally have let this go in the past, because I didn't want to cause problems or upset my wife (she feels like she is caught in the middle, although she has told me she agrees with me). However, now that I have a child, I feel like I can no longer accept her disrespecting my wishes.

I am in the Navy and I have been geographically separated from my wife and baby for the last 4 months. I drive home about 4 hours each weekend to visit, but starting last weekend, my wife and the baby were going to go visit her family in West Virginia for about 6 weeks while our stuff was moved to Washington (I am transferring there at the end of April). To make a long story short, last weekend was the last time I will get to see my baby for 6 weeks, which is really tough. I always play with her at night time, read to her, give her a bath, hold her, etc. It's kind of like our thing, and unfortunately right now, I only get to do it once a week usually on Saturday nights.

Anyway, this Saturday, my mother-in-law watched the baby while my wife and I went to dinner and a movie. Before we left, I mentioned to her that she needed to keep the baby up until I got home around 9:30 so I could do all of those things with her (her normal bedtime is between 9:00-9:30 anyway). My mother-in-law remarked that "that was much too late for a 16 month old", to which I told her that I was the parent, and that she should leave the parenting decisions to my wife and I. This obviously pissed her off, and sure enough when I got home, the baby was sleeping. I was livid, but I just went in my room because I wanted to approach the situation in a calm manner, which I was not.

The next day, I asked to talk to her about the situation. I explained to her that when she was in my house, that she was to follow the wishes of me and my wife, regardless of what they were or whether she agreed with them. I told her if she had a problem with them, that we could discuss whatever issues she had, but at the end of the day, whatever decision we came to was final, and she did not have the right to go an do as she pleased when we were not around. She was very indignant, to say the least, and started storming off. I then explained to her that if she couldn't follow our rules, than she would no longer be allowed to have our child (or future children) without supervision. I think that surprised her, because she meekly agreed after I said this.

I want to be very clear here, the fact that she put my baby to bed early is not the issue here. Yes, it kept me from my favorite time with my little girl for the last time in almost 2 months, but I can deal with that. If this was an isolated issue, I would just brush it off, but it's not. This has been a developing pattern for 12 years now. I am a firm believer that, if you are in someone else's house, or with someone else's kids, you follow their rules. I tend to think that most people would agree. I am not an unreasonable person - in fact I like to think that I get along with just about everyone I meet. I just want to know that if I say don't get my baby's ears pierced, or don't feed her X food, or don't let her watch X movie, that I am not going to come back an hour later to her doing exactly as I asked not to happen.

Anyway TWW, thank you for reading my dissertation. If anyone has any similar experiences, or advice (or even criticism), I am all ears. My wife is a little upset at me because she thinks I am singling out her mother, but this isn't the case at all. I expect anyone who watches my kid, whether it be my parents, friends, etc to respect my guidelines. It just so happens, that her mom is the ONLY person that I know who simply does what she wants, when she wants, so it is really a moot point.

3/16/2012 6:49:47 PM

good job for not letting your mother in law ride roughshod over you.

3/16/2012 6:53:25 PM

dammit that hurt. just ran into a wall of text.

3/16/2012 7:06:44 PM

Good luck. If your wife thinks you're singling out her mother, have you tried explaining it to her in that manner? Seems fairly well thought out from the perspective you just gave, and I think that whoever is watching your children should respect your decisions, no matter what their personal opinions are. Now, if you and your wife have conflicting notions on what is acceptable, that's a discussion for a different time.

3/16/2012 7:13:52 PM

Well...if your wife isn't going to put her foot down with her own mother, then I think there's not much you can
do at this point, short of banning her completely from your house. I doubt that would happen, because it has not
already, plus there's the guilt factor in denying your daughter the opportunity to see her grandmother.

I don't tolerate my parents doing dumb shit to my dogs, I sure as hell wouldn't tolerate them doing dumb shit with
any (potential) children. Then again, my mother and I have an awesome relationship. It's the MIL I have issues with.

3/16/2012 7:19:57 PM

Quote :

"I explained to her that when she was in my house, that she was to follow the wishes of me and my wife, regardless of what they were or whether she agreed with them."

Quote :

"My wife is a little upset at me because she thinks I am singling out her mother"

I guess my question here is... had you discussed this with your wife previously before you spoke for her?

Also, what does your father-in-law think of this whole thing?

3/16/2012 7:23:18 PM

My wife agrees that her mom should not be pulling the shit she pulls, but she did not agree that I should have set the ultimatum of "either do as we say, or no unsupervised visits". While my wife and I are honestly best friends (along with being husband and wife), we are also VERY different in our views on a lot of things, as well as how we handle problems. That's why we make a very concerted effort to discuss any big decision we have, so we can come to an agreement and find out where each other are coming from. She hates conflict, and I have always been one to deal with conflict and problems rather than pretend like they are not there. My rationale with my wife was that her mother's behavior was entirely unacceptable, and if she had any other solutions, I was all ears. She really wants the problem to go away without any conflict, but realistically, I just don't see that happening.

As to the father-in-law, I really don't know how he feels. They are two very different people (the MIL and FIL), but one thing they do have in common is that they are also fairly non-confrontational (that's where my wife gets it). I know he would never pull any of the shit my MIL pulls, but other than that I really don't know.

3/16/2012 7:39:37 PM

^oh jesus that's exactly like my boyfriend's family. they too believe that if you ignore a problem, it will go away eventually. they call it being "easy-going." I am a firm believer of confrontation - if I have a problem with someone, I want to talk about it before it piles up on top of other issues and eventually someone explodes.

talk to your wife. it sounds like the whole family needs to have a talk. I think your wife is going to be the key factor - not in the "tell your mom I said [this]" way, but in "this is how WE feel" way.

[Edited on March 16, 2012 at 7:46 PM. Reason : I'm very confrontational - just ask his sister ]

3/16/2012 7:41:00 PM

Yes, I had many problems with my in-laws when they visited to help out with the newborn. They were doing things WAY different than what I was wanting to. But, that's just part of it - everyone goes though this to some extent. People are funny when it comes to babies - everyone has their own style and while it's not always black/white everyone seems to treat it as such.

I had to bite my tongue many times while they were here. Sounds like you just reached your breaking point (after 12 years of mounting issues) with her telling you how to raise your child (ie 9:30 is too late for a 16 mo old). Also, your situation is complicated by the fact that you can't always be around your kid, which is extra frustrating.

Sorry, I can't offer any solution for you - this is a tough one, but you will figure it out. I do think though if you are asking her for help (while going out to eat) then you have to expect that she is going to do things her way. You can not change how she takes care of a child - she is set in her ways.

Sounds like you did the right thing by bringing the issue forward, hopefully you can find common ground and may develop a better relationship for it.

[Edited on March 16, 2012 at 7:43 PM. Reason : .]

3/16/2012 7:42:06 PM

Good job man.

You absolutely did the right thing. Much better than being passive-aggressive about it, and it sounds like you legitimately made a concerted effort to make her aware of her behavior in a more cordial manner.

I'll bet, dollars to cents, things will get much better between you as she lets that conversation really sink in.

3/16/2012 7:47:40 PM

OP, what you listed seems to be a textbook method of how to handle things properly.

3/16/2012 8:38:17 PM

Your mother-in-law doesn't respect your boundaries, thinks she knows best on most topics, including child care, and isn't afraid to express her opinion or disregard your wishes. You've just described most mother-in-laws.

She will probably always think that, for example, she is right and you are wrong about what time your child should go to bed. You need to make it clear that, frankly, your hair is a bird and her argument is invalid. Her opinion doesn't mean dick. Even if you wanted to keep that kid up until midnight. Unless any reasonable person would describe your decisions as endangering your child, boundaries must be respected. There can be a discussion. She can advise. But it is not her decision. Although, if she truly objects, it is also her decision to refuse to, in this example, be involved in the care of your child that evening.

What you need to realize is that the best way, by far, to get your mother-in-law to accept this reality is to get your wife on board. Right now, it sounds like your wife is content to let you deal with this situation so that she can avoid the awkwardness or uncomfortableness of standing up to her mother. That is a cop out. You can say things and talk with your parents in a way that your wife just can't, and vice versa. It is a comfort level thing. Having your wife on the sidelines makes things harder for you, harder for your mother-in-law, and, eventually, harder for your child.

3/17/2012 12:19:26 AM

Quote :

", had our first child last year. She is 16 months old now, and is absolutely the greatest thing to ever happen to me. I could seriously write a novel on how awesome she is, but I don't want to derail my own thread."

Why does every parent think their kid is the most awesome kid ever.

Guess what, most kids suck.

Odds of yours sucking are pretty great too.

[Edited on March 17, 2012 at 12:33 AM. Reason : ]

3/17/2012 12:32:33 AM

Not that this has ANYTHING to do with your MIL behavior. My son (who is 18 months) ALWAYS goes to bed an hour early at my moms. He also tends to sleep an extra hour with his nap and has done this just about everytime we visit.

I honestly cannot believe she would disrespect you like that in your own house. What will your daughter think if you ask "granny" to do something nicely and she just flat out doesn't do it. In a short while, I can assure you this will cause confusion for your child if granny is around. What about your father in law? Is there some way he can be a mediator?

3/17/2012 12:36:06 AM

seriously. she shaved your dog without your permission. i would have kicked her ass out of the house right then, or at least had her scared for her well-being. then she did it again. FUCK HER. You were totally within your rights to say that she either does what you say regarding your child or she can't be around the child. Like you said, you have to be able to trust that she's not going to explicitly go against your wishes with your child, end of story, whether it be pierced ears, or eating food, or whatever. She might not know everything about your kid, like a food allergy, and if she acts like a bitch and feeds your kid nuts after you told her not to because your kid is allergic to nuts, she could kill your child (example here, don't know if your kid has that allergy, but you get the point). just be sure your wife has your back, cause that'll let your MIL know that she's out of bounds.

3/17/2012 1:47:59 AM

^^he said she was the most awesome kid ever to HIM, not the most awesome kid ever period.

better question is why you feel the need to be an attention seeking shitfuck of a troll...my guess is a small, small penis

3/17/2012 1:50:25 AM

agreed tiny penis

3/17/2012 2:31:22 AM

Quote :

"Why does every parent think their kid is the most awesome kid ever. Guess what, most kids suck. Odds of yours sucking are pretty great too."

TROLL.

Also, based on what you said, seems like you grew up in a very bad neighborhood.

Also, learn to read.

3/17/2012 6:05:13 AM

I can't believe she shaved your dog. TWICE.

3/17/2012 8:36:41 AM

Quote :

"she left a half eaten plum on the bedspread in our guest room. "

Who the fuck does that Is she just a slovenly person in general?

Personally I would have gone apeshit on this woman years ago if I were you. I could see my MIL pulling some of the stunts you mention in here but thankfully my husband has a no nonsense approach with his mother and will readily tell her she's being a crazy bitch if necessary.

3/17/2012 9:45:44 AM

6^

I actually had a co-worker almost have the nut allergy thing happen to her kid 3 times over the holidays because the grand parents on both sides just didn't listen. She had to run across a row and grab a bowl from her 2yr old at one point.

3/17/2012 9:48:43 AM

Quote :

"seriously. she shaved your dog without your permission. i would have kicked her ass out of the house right then, or at least had her scared for her well-being. then she did it again. FUCK HER. You were totally within your rights to say that she either does what you say regarding your child or she can't be around the child. Like you said, you have to be able to trust that she's not going to explicitly go against your wishes with your child, end of story, whether it be pierced ears, or eating food, or whatever. She might not know everything about your kid, like a food allergy, and if she acts like a bitch and feeds your kid nuts after you told her not to because your kid is allergic to nuts, she could kill your child (example here, don't know if your kid has that allergy, but you get the point). just be sure your wife has your back, cause that'll let your MIL know that she's out of bounds."

QFT - get that shit out of here.

^ They would never see my child again

[Edited on March 17, 2012 at 10:11 AM. Reason : ]

3/17/2012 10:11:18 AM

Thanks a lot for all the feedback. This has definitely been a really big point of contention pretty much since the day we've been married. It has been much easier just to ignore up until this point, because the consequences didn't have any real affect on anyone but myself - until now. Plus, being in the Navy, I am rarely in a position where we are even within driving distance, so I don't have to put up with it that often.

Quote :

"Who the fuck does that Is she just a slovenly person in general?"

Yeah, that's a pretty good generalization. However, on the flip side, I am pretty much a neat freak, at least when it comes to some things - specifically things being strewn about counters/tables and the kitchen not being clean. I try to accept that other people don't care about these things as much, but she routinely pushes me to my breaking point.

Quote :

"Why does every parent think their kid is the most awesome kid ever. Guess what, most kids suck. Odds of yours sucking are pretty great too."

rwoody really hit this on the head. I used to feel kind of similar to the way you do - I liked children, but they really seemed to be more of a hassle, and I could never really connect the dots as to why a couple would give up their personal freedoms/finances just to raise one. Hell, I waited until I was 32 to actually have one, after having been dating/married to my wife for 17 years. It was a decision that I went back and forth on for a long long time, because I really take having a child as being a huge decision, one that way too many people take lightly.

But now that I have her, I completely get it. Words just can't describe how much she has changed my life for the better. I think I would have more luck trying to explain to a blind man what seeing is like. So yeah, I do think she is awesome, and I do think that I am the luckiest dad in the world. I hope/guess that someday you will feel the same way about your children if you choose to have any.

3/17/2012 10:48:27 AM

She shaved YOUR dog? Twice?

Who the hell does crap like that? Seriously, who purposefully does exactly the opposite of what the homeowner or parent requests? That's just absurd.

3/17/2012 12:03:29 PM

Alternatively, his MIL could be the ultimate troll.

I mean, shaving the dog? That's just fucking with someone.

3/17/2012 12:53:46 PM

i wouldn't say or do anything that would burn that bridge. taking that you are out of the picture for periods of time, i am sure that she does whatever she can do to help with your families situation, even simply taking to your wife on the phone about your child.

i would assume your wife was raised by her mother so this ain't her first rodeo. of course grandparents spoil grandkids but she has been down this path before and raised someone that you are married to.

it seems as though your wife needs to step up and be the peacemaker and solve this issue.

3/17/2012 1:10:21 PM

my gf's mom is a manipulative/controlling nut job too, I feel your pain FeebleMinded

I'm in the same boat as you in that I have no idea how to respond or handle it at times, its a catch 22

[Edited on March 17, 2012 at 1:44 PM. Reason : ]

3/17/2012 1:41:27 PM

You let her walk all over you for 12 years, and now suddenly you expect her to behave differently?

Yeah, good luck with that. Let us know how that works out...

I commend you for finally standing up her, but wow, how'd you let it go on for as long as it did to begin with?

[Edited on March 17, 2012 at 4:49 PM. Reason : asdf]

3/17/2012 4:46:01 PM

Great boundary you set, Jim.

Proud of you.

Have fun in WA.

3/17/2012 5:03:43 PM

^^that's basically my take on this thing. ultimatum time should have come long before this woman had a chance in hell of shaving your kids head like the dog. i know dealing with difficult family stuff is like trying to walk around on broken glass, but your wife should now have your back on this 1000%. if she doesn't, you might want to think long and hard about how she might have contributed to this situation over the years... i would never take my parents' side over my spouse's no matter who did what.

3/17/2012 6:17:27 PM

I'm thinking that at the point where she shaves my dog whose defining characteristic as a breed is its fluffy coat, it's on. Another point might be when she leaves a half-eaten plum on a BED and then refused to clean it up. I mean, who puts half-eaten food on a fucking bed in someone else's house? who the fuck does that? I would have been in her face at that point, saying "get that fucking plum off the bed and into the trash or get the fuck out of my house!" both of those are lines that you don't fucking cross. my mom even asks permission to get my dog a haircut, and she knows I'll probably approve of whatever haircut she gets for him, but she still asks my permission

3/17/2012 7:04:08 PM

Quote :

"my Pomeranian mix"

~

3/17/2012 7:23:31 PM

Quote :

"i wouldn't say or do anything that would burn that bridge. taking that you are out of the picture for periods of time, i am sure that she does whatever she can do to help with your families situation, even simply taking to your wife on the phone about your child. i would assume your wife was raised by her mother so this ain't her first rodeo."

I agree with this: she's around helping out your wife when you aren't there. So far she hasn't done anything to seriously maim/harm/injure your child (or even your dog, on purpose) in any way. She should respect your decisions, but it doesn't seem like your wife is doing much to help your cause here. Your wife was raised by her, so maybe she defers to her mother's decisions when you're not around: you and your wife should really get on the same page about all of this, first and foremost.

3/17/2012 8:59:27 PM

There comes a point where your relationship with both your own parents and your wife's parents will change. It's the point where you become the alpha and you're not looking them to advice or approval. It sounds like you're at that point. A man's home is his castle. Congrats on your castle.

Quote :

"West Virginia"

[Edited on March 17, 2012 at 11:00 PM. Reason : s]

3/17/2012 11:00:10 PM

^What he said! LOL

3/18/2012 12:17:40 AM

I don't have a mother in law or anything, but I'll point something out that nobody has mentioned. She was babysitting while you and your wife went out on a date. So she was doing you a favor, and that may make her feel entitled to do whatever she wants. Same with the other incidents ... Maybe she thinks that because she's "helping out" she has a license to run amok.

Sometimes people don't realize what a burden they are as a guest. My grandmother thinks she's helping out by making dinner, even though it meant I had make two trips to the grocery store because I got the wrong type of Italian bread crumbs.

I'm not defending her actions, but if you know where she's coming from that might help you solve this problem.

3/18/2012 8:01:17 AM

tl;dr

3/18/2012 10:49:03 AM

You lost me at

Quote :

"my Pomeranian"

3/18/2012 12:32:41 PM

Quote :

"my Pomeranian mix"

Quote :

"Sex : M"

does not compute

3/18/2012 2:35:28 PM

LOL all these tuff unmarried guys...

3/18/2012 3:13:38 PM

Quote :

"I used to feel kind of similar to the way you do - I liked children, but they really seemed to be more of a hassle, and I could never really connect the dots as to why a couple would give up their personal freedoms/finances just to raise one."

Not to derail the thread... didn't you want to be sterilized at some time?

Anyway, glad that you saw why many people like having children and that you like being a dad and that you take it seriously. We need more parents like you.

3/18/2012 3:27:43 PM

I went through exactly the same thing. My MIL had the obvious opinion that she was in charge, and that she would do whatever she wanted regardless of what other people said. She was rude, condescending, and generally thought she was right and that her opinion about everything was "the best." I ignored it (just like you) until we had kids. Then it came to a head, just like with you, because grandchildren is where MIL's seem to become especially pushy know-it-alls. My poor spouse was caught in the middle, and she'd just ignore him anyway even when he said "Mom, please don't do xyz." Just as an example, even before the birth she continually said that she thought breast feeding was a terrible idea, and as soon as we had a newborn she'd bring over bottles with formula and cereal that she was planning to use. She'd get all huffy when we'd tell her that no, that's not how it was going to go, and that newborns don't eat cereal.

She wanted the children to come visit her rather than coming to our house (we live about 30 min apart), so I ended up paying someone to baby proof her home for her because she simply refused to do it and my spouse didn't want to get involved. Then, once baby was mobile, we had to have a talk about how she handled her lit cigs, her ashtrays, and her hot cups of coffee. She was all like "phooey, you're just paranoid. We always just put our coffee on the coffee table when your husband was little and nothing ever happened." Well, my brother was seriously burned by a cup of coffee when he was four and he still has the scars. No, I am not being paranoid. I also had a childhood friend accidentally get strangled to death at home in kindergarten. She seemed to change her behavior about safety after I told her that. It helped that I said these experiences probably made me extra sensitive, and that I appreciated her understanding (although really I was just asking her to act like a reasonably responsible adult.)

Finally, when she started babysitting, it became clear that she thought she just didn't have to follow our requests when we weren't there. She wouldn't let them nap when they were supposed to because she was having so much fun playing with them, she'd give them foods they hadn't had before even though we told her we were introducing foods gradually based upon the guidelines from the pediatrician, etc. Just like stated above, her attitude seemed to be "I'm doing YOU a favor, and if you don't like the way I do things, that's just too bad for you. And I know better than you do anyway. So there." Right after I would state some basic request, like please put the baby to sleep on his back, not his stomach like last time, I would even here her telling the baby, who of course couldn't understand her, "your mommy thinks she knows what to do, but I know better." Of course that was directed at me, not the baby. Totally obnoxious about it.

After one incident that particularly set me off, I typed up bullet points that said at the top "These are the guidelines for the children's care. Thank you for following these guidelines." It included things like what time they slept, what they were to eat, etc. Basic stuff. I told my husband that if she couldn't follow these she would simply stop watching the kids, period. No more "chances," because when someone else babysat they always did these simple things exactly the way I requested. He must have said something to her about it and how serious I was, because she immediately stopped pulling the "I don't have to do what you say" BS. I gave it to her the next time she babysat, and it also came in handy for other babysitters.

It sounds like your MIL is really a piece of work. So, it's good you don't have to deal with her more than you do. Probably everyone in the family knows it, and she obviously gets away with it, so good for you for putting your foot down. God, that was a long time ago, and obviously I can still rant about it.

3/18/2012 4:59:13 PM

This thread makes it sound like I'm going to murder my MIL if I ever have a chance to get married/have a kid

3/18/2012 5:10:35 PM

this thread makes me wanna go get a vasectomy

3/18/2012 5:26:34 PM

I think the main issue at hand is the lack of aforementioned Snickers in this thread.




Also, you're doing it right. It's not being unecessarily abrasive. It's standing your ground.

3/18/2012 5:55:42 PM

^^ may the Lord grant us that wish!

3/18/2012 6:05:19 PM

Note to self: Before marrying a girl, be sure to fully evaluate the potential mother-in-law's level of crazy.

3/18/2012 6:28:04 PM

I'm thinking it's a two part problem:
1)MIL does whatever she wants
2)FM wants things to be structured (his way)

Either it's just two people being quirky OR it's a power play in which neither is willing to give. I think the only way to win is not to play (see War Games). Just accept the MIL is not going to fall in line and do your best dealing with her. The things you're talking about don't seem like the end of the world, more like a pissing match that neither side win.

3/18/2012 9:28:46 PM

Quote :

"^^ may the Lord grant us that wish! "

C'mon man, maybe he's making a laff about his MIL

3/19/2012 8:04:28 AM

this very similar situation occured in my family. it ended up with a pregnant teen, and a family who has a hard time being in the same room. Make sure you deal with it NOW as opposed to just playing it off and letting it manifest throughout the years.

3/20/2012 10:20:42 AM