Is it?

I'm a registered republican, but consider myself to be much more of a Libertarian. Obama disgusts me and Mitt Romney is not much of a better alternative. If I could choose anyone for POTUS it would be Gary Johnson. So, is a vote fore the Libertarian party a wasted vote that will only help Obama,a get reelected or is a vote for Johnson a good way to stick it to the GOP and show them that they have alienated many of their people by becoming so disgustingly conservative?


All this is assuming that our votes still actually matter in presidential elections

8/1/2012 9:17:31 AM

With the electoral college the way it is, pretty much all votes are wasted votes (unless you live in a swing state) You think your Democrat vote matters in Texas or your Republican vote matters in California? It would make the most sense to switch to a popular vote.

Though, there is some value to having your voice heard, even if it doesn't decide the outcome. If you feel strongly in favor of the 3rd party, vote for it. And I agree with you on the GOP, they went off the deep-end (much like some of the far left in the 60's/70's)

8/1/2012 10:34:28 AM

Trick question. All votes are wasted votes.

8/1/2012 12:46:58 PM

Sadly, I agree that a presidential vote is mostly a wasted one. However, with regard to weighing the costs and benefits of supporting a third party candidate versus defeating the worse of the two major party candidates, you should also measure the degree to which your local area is a battleground.

If you live in a heavily conservative or liberal state (or even a county within a state), I would think you would have more peace of mind in voting for a third party. If you live in a tossup county within a tossup state, you would probably want to vote for the lesser of the two evils.

[Edited on August 1, 2012 at 2:43 PM. Reason : ]

8/1/2012 2:38:12 PM

id say voting for a 3rd party in a battleground state sends more of a message.

8/1/2012 2:42:38 PM

There's definitely that, but you would want to weigh the differences between the two major party candidates, as well as the likelihood that their respective parties will receive your message, right?

8/1/2012 2:52:28 PM

id say in this case neither party is worth voting for even as a counter to the other. they're both just as bad. (and your congressional delegates are more important anyways)

8/1/2012 2:57:51 PM

I could see myself voting for Gary Johnson given that his values are more closely aligned with mine. NC will go for Willard anyways, so I may as well vote my conscience.

8/1/2012 3:57:28 PM

It's no more a wasted vote than voting for the losing party is. The lesser of two evils is still evil.

8/1/2012 4:46:02 PM

I don't understand how any defends the two-party system itself. It's the source of a huge amount of the corruption in Washington which we wouldn't have if a 3rd party had a choice of getting a voice in congress. We need to get rid of it.

If there's one area where I believe we could have a media conspiracy, it's here. No one even talks about the problem that the lack of runoffs disconnects politicians from the people they serve. It's terrible.

8/1/2012 5:03:54 PM

Depends 100% on the circumstances and in the circumstance of this American election then...

Quote :

"Trick question. All votes are wasted votes."

8/1/2012 5:15:32 PM

This is really a game theory question. It turns out that any voting game with more than two candidates is flawed and unfair. What we really need is a power sharing coalition schema like they have in Israel.

Third party candidates can't win these days. People are so passive and stupid right now that it takes big money to influence them. I love that Green Party chick that is running but she just can't win.

8/1/2012 6:20:39 PM

The "wasted vote" thing is a stupid trick by the two party system. Unfortunately, most people buy into what the two party system says.

That being said, I'd rather vote for who I thought was the best candidate despite what the GOP and Dems tell me otherwise.

8/1/2012 6:26:54 PM

^It's actually a consequence of our Single-Member District Plurality electoral system.

8/1/2012 9:04:57 PM

it's a wasted vote, but no more wasted than not voting at all, which is usually the other option that I seriously consider (for President).

With a relative pragmatist like Gary Johnson, my desire to take an ideological stand for libertarianism over traditional Republicans outweighs my sometimes conflicting desire to take an ideological stand against the nutjob ideologues who often carry the Libertarian Party torch.

8/1/2012 9:16:22 PM

^^ I would also bring up gerrymandering as well, which I think is part of what your response is bringing up indirectly.

^ Gary Johnson is a lot different from a lot of Libertarians (extreme ones). I feel like he is a good candidate. I agree with what you are saying with the overall perception of a lot of Libertarians out there. Its often why party labels are dangerous.

[Edited on August 1, 2012 at 9:19 PM. Reason : Gary Johnson]

8/1/2012 9:17:09 PM

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/07/how-to-protest-the-major-parties-without-throwing-away-your-vote/260273/

8/1/2012 10:19:44 PM

Usually I say no. its not a wasted vote.
This time I say it is. My desire isn't to see a certain person elected as much as it it to see the current President defeated.

8/3/2012 12:17:11 AM

I too am a former Republican turned libertarian. I disagree that the GOP became too conservative however. I do agree that they became too conservative in a bible thumping sense, but this also caused them to become like the liberals in that they are ignoring personal liberty to fight against gay rights, abortion, etc. I would also argue that the GOP establishment became too liberal in that they became big spenders, big government, bailouters, and foreign policy world police. As it stands, I despise the current GOP establishment, but some of the younger guys coming up with more conservative tea party values, like Rubio and Cruz, gives me a little hope. However, as much as I hate the GOP, I hate the Democrats far worse, who have gone full Marxist. I would like to see a Libertarian candidate who is not off the wall crazy gain some mainstream support. Ron Paul is a little too old and crazy, but Rand might be an option. I also like Gary Johnson, but I do see him being a possible spoiler in a tight election. And four more years of Obama is far worse than Romney IMO

8/3/2012 1:04:27 AM

I think more people fall into the Libertarian category and just don't know it because its an R and D world.
He who has the gold makes the rules. Want to know who is going to win the race? Look at who has the most money. Rs and Ds have all the money and the Ls don't. We won't get a Libertarian Pres until they get some serious cash.

8/3/2012 6:56:12 AM

Quote :

"I wish people weren't afraid to vote 3rd party. I feel like most have been choosing the lesser of two evils for some time now. If you like a third party candidate VOTE FOR THEM! If we could get a 3rd party strong enough to compete with the big 2 then we won't be choosing between Social and Economic freedom every friggin election. There should be more choices then get screwed by ultra conservative rich people, or support every lost soul who would rather piss their life away than work a 40-50-60 hour week like the rest of us. Even if your choice doesn't win the election... getting a 3rd party or independent more recognized is worth it for 2 reasons. #1 maybe next time your courage will encourage others. #2 YOU STILL LET THE TWO PARTIES KNOW YOU AREN'T HAPPY WITH EITHER."

this was my post on fb inspired by the title of this thread.

8/3/2012 8:38:18 AM

used then not than. cannot support your post now

8/3/2012 8:45:31 AM

I was using it as "in time" but you think i should be comparing two times?

8/3/2012 8:48:49 AM

Quote :

"Is a vote for the "Third Party" a wasted vote?"

No. But if you really care about third parties doing well then you can't stop there. The NC General Assembly could make third party ballot access easier in NC. The courts didn't go for it, and so the only real chance is getting the General Assembly on board. So far the GOP General Assembly have been opposed, but it's worth keeping the pressure up just in case.

8/3/2012 12:26:44 PM

Quote :

"This time I say it is. My desire isn't to see a certain person elected as much as it it to see the current President defeated."

Quote :

"And four more years of Obama is far worse than Romney IMO"

This is always the excuse though, and its self defeating. If Romney wins, that makes the GOP think that Romney was the candidate people want, so they'll run him again, or find Romney++ for the next election. And the Democrats will just run someone even more crazy to the other side. And if Obama wins again, it's the same sort of effect, the next democratic candidate will be more of the same or worse, and the GOP will try to find someone even more insane. Neither party is going to play for the middle because the middle doesn't matter. They're going to vote for "the lesser of two evils" every single time. The candidates need to appeal to the extreme wings of the voters, bring out the people who don't normally vote because they're really the ones that will swing it. Think about it, Bush really won on the backs of all the religious right that he brought out of the woodwork, Obama on the backs of young voters (who historically have bad turnout) and other minority voting groups that don't normally turn out. If you took just the middle of the road voters, the ones that vote for "the lesser of two evils" (and really do it because they honestly believe that the need to keep one of those evils out of office, whatever the cost, not because they call themselves "center" just to avoid the negative connotations of their true affiliation), and you put them in a race with the two evils and a real viable center of the road 3rd party, that 3rd party candidate would win. So the parties feed the lines that a vote for a 3rd party is a waste, and that "we need to <vote x out of office / keep x out of office>" and promise to put up a better candidate next time. In the years that you've been alive, has it gotten better? Why do you think it will get better if you fall for it again? How many more times do they have to pull away the football before we stop trying to kick?

8/3/2012 1:08:20 PM

you make a valid case there my friend. i think the libertarian party's momentum must start with winning local and state elections

8/3/2012 2:00:51 PM

http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/washington-whispers/2012/07/31/occupy-wall-street-protesters-targeting-obama-at-democratic-convention-
Nobody 2012

[Edited on August 3, 2012 at 2:15 PM. Reason : .]

[Edited on August 3, 2012 at 2:29 PM. Reason : .]

8/3/2012 2:13:28 PM

This is my stance... if I dislike 2 candidates enough, why vote for the lesser of the two evils when they are both very shitty? I'd rather vote for a 3rd party candidate that I agree with on more things rather than a giant douche or a large turd sandwich.

8/3/2012 4:27:07 PM