http://news.gather.com/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474981606724

This video got be wondering to what degree tdubers have been hazed. I can't think of anything in my military career that warrants mentioning...

9/5/2012 2:26:06 PM

Yes, via traditional means. I'm all for it within reason. Ice baths, markers on the face, tied to the goalposts, etc. This seems a bit excessive.

[Edited on September 5, 2012 at 2:34 PM. Reason : x]

9/5/2012 2:30:11 PM

I've been hazed. Nothing too physically damaging. Nothing illegal.

It was mainly to build trust.

9/5/2012 2:38:08 PM

how does hazing build trust?

9/5/2012 2:39:45 PM

Because you know if you tell anyone, they will fucking kill you

9/5/2012 3:16:51 PM

fucking helicopter parents

9/5/2012 3:23:21 PM

Technically yes but it was more fun than anything. There is nothing wrong with hazing as long as it doesn't go too far IMO. Obviously that is very subjective and depends on the situation.

9/5/2012 8:50:54 PM

Hazing is nothing more than an abuse of power and I've never understood it; whether from the perspective of those who do it or those who tolerate suffering through the experience. When someone joins your group you want to build camaraderie and trust. Doing so eases integration, promotes good morale, fosters teamwork, etc... Starting any group relationship with subjugation and abuse potentially leading to ill will and mistrust doesn't seem like a good idea. That said you can have various rites of initiation without crossing the line into hazing.

My fraternity has a no-tolerance hazing policy that is set by our international headquarters. New initiates are usually given various trials and tasks with the aim of encourage cooperation between them and building a bridge with existing members (scavenger hunts, classic team-based trust exercises, or other things we come up with that are usually stolen from some cheesy corporate retreat or summer camp curriculum). Successful completion leave new initiates proud of their accomplishments and with a foundation for communication that hastens their integration into the group and encourages further contributions. Abuse and humiliation are out of the question and would defeat the purpose of the exercises. Besides, if you pick on the new guy, what do you do down the road when they're the one in charge and making decisions that affect you?

We had a pledge once who had been pledging a different fraternity. He told us he quit the previous group because they were greasing up their pledges in preparation for a game of human shuffle board. I fail to see how you can turn that into a positive experience for new members. Now, add voluntary participation along with beer and girls and you might have the beginnings of an epic night, but that's not what they were going for.

For me it comes down to this, which group to you want to belong to?:
A) "Hey, n00b! Go fetch me a beer!"
B) "Hey , n00b! Here's a beer. Join the party!"


An example where I experience an utter lack of hazing was crossing the equator at sea. This is a very old nautical right of passage. I know US Navy ships turn the event in an almost party like atmosphere where any humiliation "'Wogs" undergo is mostly their own doing. This hasn't always been the case, but the US military is more PC than it used to be. Most of the crew of the research vessel I was on had been across the equator so many times, they couldn't muster any enthusiasm to channel into hazing us 'Wogs. Thus, the event passed only with minor commentary and the half-hearted threat to make the 'Wogs walk the plank anytime research equipment malfunctioned on ship.

TL;DR

9/5/2012 10:13:18 PM

I, too, was in a non-hazing frat. Our national website says so

9/5/2012 10:25:21 PM

How well did practice live up to policy?

9/5/2012 10:42:46 PM

haha, crossing the equator at sea had no hazing... you never did so on a sub, then, or you did it recently, lol

9/5/2012 11:46:54 PM

^ I wasn't on a military vessel... well, NOAA corps. Anyway, most of the crew were civilian scientists, most of whom had been across many times. I'm sure things would have been much different on a different boat.

9/5/2012 11:49:36 PM

Please, aaronburro!

Tell us all about your long and illustrious career as a submariner!

9/6/2012 1:19:57 AM

Hazing is actually really fun and cool for both parties as long as simple rules are followed. The problem is that people have poor judgment and can't follow basic rules or they are a dork and think hazing will make them cool. You get people like the TKEs in the 90's pushing a guy who can't swim into a lake and drowning. There's obviously nothing funny about killing someone. (Sorry that was a low blow, but seriously that was pretty fucked up).

There's a big difference between making someone wear pink panties all week and making someone do the elephant walk (stick one thumb in your mouth and the other thumb up the butthole of the guy in front of you. When they yell "switch" you have to switch thumbs).

Hazing should always follow three basic rules.

#1 It should be funny for both parties rather than just the hazer. It can be slightly embarrassing or awkward but it should be fun for the hazee and the hazer. There's nothing wrong with someone having to say/do embarrassing things around women but tying someone to a tree in tidey whities and putting on a porn then calling all the sororities to come laugh at him isn't funny for the guy getting hazed. It's just mean and it's the kind of thing that makes parents complain and people quit.

#2 If it "sucks" for the hazee then it should at least be productive for the hazer. Yeah cleaning someone's microwave, changing a tire, giving them a ride home from the bar at 3 AM... all that stuff sucks but at least someone is getting something out of it.

#3 It shouldn't be inherently dangerous or super illegal. Yes, it's pretty funny to make blindfolded people reach into a toilet and pull out a banana and eat it. But it's also disgusting and ridiculously dangerous. I don't care if someone "cleaned" the toilets first, that's not safe. Likewise, having them get arrested for beating an animal with a golf club isn't cool either.

Make people run around campus drunk at 4 AM. Make people do wallsits while they chug smirnoff ices. Give people near impossible tasks and put the fear of god in them if they don't complete them so they actually try. All that stuff is fun for everyone.

Shit like drinking microwaved beer or peanut butter/jellying a guy's asshole is just gross. (peanut butter on one inside butt cheek and jelly on the other then smash them together). Dumping bleach on someone in the shower isn't funny it's just you being an asshole.

Personally, my hazing was limited to this one jar of protein powder i bought. I accidentally grabbed vanilla instead of chocolate. The shit was the most disgusting thing ive ever tasted it was seriously unreal. I just always told people if they needed anything from me they had to "get their protein". The only way out of it was to smell a gallon of milk that was several months old (i always keep some around as a measure of protection, currently i have one from 2006 marinating in case anyone was thinking about pranking me).


Unrelated story i used to keep a bottle of "Fabreze" in my room in college. I'd be like "hey man it stinks in here won't me to spray some of this Fabreze? Everyone would be like yeah man spray that shit. Well, to amuse myself I'd actually dump the Fabreze out and fill it up with spoiled milk instead. Then I'd spray the shit out of it in their room. Smelled like bad cheese. I don't know why but to this day i just laugh my ass off at the thought of spraying spoiled milk particles all over someone's room under the guise of making a nice gesture.

That and i was that guy who always put cups of water over the door so that when you walked in/out the door it would fall on your head. On cold days, exam days, etc it was hilarious. Little things like that always amuse me.




[Edited on September 6, 2012 at 2:39 AM. Reason : a]

9/6/2012 2:15:40 AM

a hive of frat boys: lying, cheating, whoring. To enhance their dark powers they use fear of rejection but it only works on the needy approval seeking personality. Thus hazing. The exact same recruiting tactic a lot of businesses use.

9/6/2012 3:07:32 AM

If you make it really easy to join an organization then new members won't respect the organization and this usually leads to a lack of honoring your commitments which can severely hurt the organization and potentially lead to it's downfall.

You've got to show that you want it.

9/6/2012 11:51:19 AM

TKE would know... Since respect is earned by humiliating individuals.

What a quack of a human being.

9/6/2012 11:58:17 AM

Quote :

"Please, aaronburro! Tell us all about your long and illustrious career as a submariner!"

9/6/2012 12:02:30 PM

from TEDxNCSU



I mean, I'm not passionate about this issue, but she sure is.

9/6/2012 12:03:23 PM

Quote :

"You get people like the TKEs in the 90's pushing a guy who can't swim into a lake and drowning."

dude you know jackshit, the guy who died was actually, along with his pledge brothers, trying to pull a prank on their pledge educator. The kid slipped on a rock in the lake and drowned. This was not some fraternity initiated event or form of hazing. If anything it was the opposite.

[Edited on September 6, 2012 at 12:13 PM. Reason : a]

9/6/2012 12:12:53 PM

Quote :

" how does hazing build trust?"

For instance, they blindfolded us and one by one drug us into the bathroom where is smelled like someone just took a nasty dump. The kneel you in from of a toilet and tell you to reach in, grab the turd, and eat it. You reach in and grab what feels exactly like poop and start freaking out. They are all screaming at you to "EAT SHIT FOR YOUR FRAT!" Finally, you just take a deep breath and shove it in your mouth only to find out that it is just a banana covered in peanut butter that is in a bucket inside the toilet bowl.

The point is that you just have to trust that your brothers would never actually make you eat shit.

9/6/2012 12:17:50 PM

I've never been hazed explicitly. But I think there's some hazing that people perpetrate "naturally."

When you're new to a group, and people are like, "Hey, new guy. You're new so you get the bad jobs and we're watching you to make sure you're cool." And then you're not new anymore, and some other guy comes along, and you turn around and do the same thing to him. I suspect people do this without even thinking about it or announcing it openly with the "Hey, new guy..." line.

I dunno. I'm sure somebody has studied this part of group dynamics. But I guess my point is that I think hazing may be an enhanced, explicit iteration of what we already do to one another. And it's obnoxious and pointless.

9/6/2012 12:35:43 PM

i was hazin before bullying stopped being cool

9/6/2012 12:54:46 PM

Quote :

"They are all screaming at you to "EAT SHIT FOR YOUR FRAT!" Finally, you just take a deep breath and shove it in your mouth only to find out that it is just a banana covered in peanut butter that is in a bucket inside the toilet bowl."

LOLOL

9/6/2012 1:21:08 PM

Quote :

"dude you know jackshit, the guy who died was actually, along with his pledge brothers, trying to pull a prank on their pledge educator. The kid slipped on a rock in the lake and drowned. This was not some fraternity initiated event or form of hazing. If anything it was the opposite."

that doesn't even align with the story they told the police and media.

http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/162167/


HUR, have you achieved Grand Wizard in your Klan chapter, and was there any hazing in your attempts to achieve that?

9/6/2012 1:41:53 PM

Yeah, obviously they are going to tell the new members a scripted story because no one is going to pledge a frat that quite possibly murdered (okay we'll say manslaughtered) a pledge a few years prior.

Anyway, not teaching your kid to swim should be a criminal offense. I can't imagine going through life knowing I could die at any second in 5 feet of water.

Granted, this guy was also probably hammered off his ass if they had a coat/tie and dinner prior to this. Pushing drunk people into a lake of water is somewhere between really dumb and extraordinarily dumb.

This is why hazing gets outlawed, because people just don't use good judgment and think risk/reward things through. Plus even well intentioned hazing will occasionally go wrong and cause a firestorm with lawsuits, media, etc.

9/6/2012 2:01:31 PM

I was forced to live in the house for two years, isn't that hazing?

[Edited on September 6, 2012 at 2:49 PM. Reason : ...]

9/6/2012 2:48:40 PM

I'm surprised how much some people seem to not understand hazing.

When I was much younger and more insecure, I remember wanting to be hazed. Why? Because you get in the in-group. Combine that with an attitude toward risks similar to Evel Knievel, and it's kind of crazy to question why adolescent guys wouldn't institute some kind of hazing.

Group identity is waaay more powerful than any of you give it credit for. If you're in the frat that hazes, you've got more cred than the other one that doesn't.

9/6/2012 3:10:25 PM

I always forget about HUR, then he shows up and I remember him being the worst t-dub poster ever...the worst.

If I was H8R...I'd be pissed.

9/6/2012 3:21:49 PM

I was blood pinned my Expert Infantry and Combat Infantry Badges. I didn't ask for it and always thought it a stupid practice. I've never participated in it since then.

9/6/2012 5:08:19 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_wings

That always gave me the heebie jeebies to think about. Although, I'm sure it wouldn't be as big of a deal if I just spent 2 years getting the rank.

9/6/2012 5:21:55 PM

we had "initiation" for crossing the equator at the time zone line with king neptunes grace and power.

9/6/2012 6:03:06 PM

Hazing is when people in a position of authority take advantage of that fact. It doesn't build camaraderie any more than forcing child soldiers to kill people does. Yes, ultimately those kids will grow up and be part of the group, and do the same thing to future children, but it's not because of a sense of "team."

The end result for a lot of those who are independent and strong willed is that they end up resenting those people in authority and hold a long term grudge, depending on the level of hazing.

9/6/2012 6:40:43 PM

^^^ i remember seeing leaked footage of that on the news as a kid. it came from a base in NC. pretty intense stuff.

http://web.archive.org/web/20080619053346/http://www.cnn.com/US/9707/11/blood.pinning/

[Edited on September 6, 2012 at 6:49 PM. Reason : .]

9/6/2012 6:48:31 PM

I had to go through an Apache Line when I joined the Lords

9/6/2012 8:04:16 PM

In the military I have been "hazed" sure (blood rank, etc), but what you see going on in the OP's video is not any kind of hazing I've endured, its complete stupidity. Unfortunately everyone involved is fucking retarded. The fact that the first sergeant (which is a senior enlisted member) is the one executing such action shows a complete breakdown in the NCO corps of that unit, and shows a complete lack of command authority by the Officers of the unit.

I've been an NCO and I'm currently an Officer, and I can tell you that regardless of my rank, there isn't any way I'm gonna stand there and let some fucktarded moron hit me in the chest with a mallet.

9/6/2012 8:06:18 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIP65ZjXBh0

Someone embed.


That said, I will be abstaining from discussing this topic

[Edited on September 7, 2012 at 12:04 AM. Reason : .]

9/7/2012 12:03:28 AM

I can't remember if I ever stated which frat I was in. Being so, um, we were a non hazing frat.

9/17/2012 12:35:39 AM

Well that's one way to tack it on....


HUAAAAA

9/17/2012 7:33:38 AM

I stopped reading at the post that said its cool for a guy to stick his thumb in another guys butt hole.

9/17/2012 1:08:11 PM

I was never in a frat, and I had enough friends in frats that helped me make that decision. From the stories I have heard, y'all do some pretty gay shit during "Hell Week". Or at least you did back in the late 90's.

[Edited on September 17, 2012 at 1:14 PM. Reason : a]

9/17/2012 1:13:43 PM

Soggy Biscuit

9/17/2012 1:20:53 PM

ookie cookie

9/18/2012 8:45:21 AM