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tulsigabbard
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Great. New South Korean president wants peace. I wonder what happens when we clash with him president about being to soft on his own's country's "security".

5/9/2017 10:21:12 PM

marko
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Wat

5/9/2017 11:59:53 PM

tulsigabbard
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I forgot how MSM is flooded with Comey, but South Korea just elected a new president, Moon, who wants to reverse the NK policy.

5/10/2017 12:26:20 AM

tulsigabbard
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The doctors in Cincinnati found no signs of foul play or trauma but the media is already talking about human rights and pitching a story to build anger amongst the American people.

[Edited on June 19, 2017 at 4:45 PM. Reason : We are in no position to talk about the treatment of prisoners]

6/19/2017 4:44:31 PM

Cherokee
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Infuriates me that we allow NK to detain US citizens for no reason.

It infuriates me even more that these idiots keep going to fucking North Korea.

6/19/2017 4:51:51 PM

tulsigabbard
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They had a reason. He stole a political poster, confessed, and was convicted with a 15-year sentence. Why do you think Americans should be able to go to other countries and be above the law? Going to have to check that American white male privilege before you board an international flight.

6/19/2017 4:56:29 PM

NyM410
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The far left is as astonishingly bizarre as the far right.

6/19/2017 5:48:01 PM

SkiSalomon
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Quote :
"We are in no position to talk about the treatment of prisoners"


We are absolutely in a position to talk about treatment of prisoners compared to North Korea. I've spent a little time in prisons over the years and would agree that we have a lot of improvements to make but come on, we are talking about north fucking Korea.

Quote :
"Infuriates me that we allow NK to detain US citizens for no reason."


What would be your solution? I don't see a whole lot we can do since we don't have diplomatic/consular relations with the country. Combine that with the extensive sanctions already in place and the perpetually ongoing negotiations on their nuclear/missile program and we are not left with a whole ton of options. Should we as a nation expect our government to scuttle those efforts or resort to military action over the handful of individuals who vacation in Pyongyang with the knowledge that they will be fucked with or worse?

6/19/2017 6:27:26 PM

Dentaldamn
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"above the law"????

Do you feel the same way about our drug and immigration laws?

6/19/2017 6:28:30 PM

tulsigabbard
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Of course I feel the same way about our laws and overall system of injustice. That is why I say we are in no position to tell North Korea how they should run their country. If this was coming from a country that respects human dignity and has a fair justice system of their own, I'd understand but the US? Nope. We have people serving life sentences for marijuana. We have people being executed on the streets for no reason. Otto's 15-year sentence for actually stealing something was light compared to some of the things certain types of people have to deal with here.

6/19/2017 6:36:12 PM

Dentaldamn
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Lol. So are you for or against insane legal systems?

6/19/2017 6:49:32 PM

Cherokee
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Quote :
"What would be your solution?"


See my second remark in the same post. Revoke US citizens' passports if they visit North Korea.

6/19/2017 7:07:00 PM

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Lol y'all getting Earl'd hard ITT

6/19/2017 9:57:04 PM

eleusis
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Do we really have people doing life for marijuana? I thought Obama gave them all pardons a year ago.

6/19/2017 10:30:25 PM

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So that story about Otto stealing the banner for his church is complete BS right? Haven't paid much attention to this story. Asking for a friend.

6/19/2017 10:42:07 PM

rjrumfel
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I was actually erring on the side of caution and thinking that he actually did do something to get himself in trouble. But the punishment was obviously overkill.

It boggles my mind as to why any American would go to NK, even if it is to spread the Word.

6/20/2017 9:28:17 AM

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Quote :
"But the punishment was obviously overkill"

6/20/2017 9:52:11 AM

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I'm assuming that wasn't on purpose right?

6/20/2017 1:13:33 PM

rjrumfel
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Well, sure that was a statement of the obvious.

And I'm certainly not arguing that this guys treatment was wrong. But was he really treated any differently than any other poor North Korean would've been treated in one of their camps?

We'll never know if the charges were trumped up. But he probably lived longer than most natives in one of their camps.

6/20/2017 1:59:15 PM

NyM410
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I know I should never take what the president says seriously but his NK tweet sounds ominous.

6/20/2017 2:59:31 PM

tulsigabbard
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^^But I think what they are saying is that as a 22 year old, white, UVA student, with so much going for him, he should not be subjected to the same brutal rules as a poor person. Thats the main difference between the justice systems in US and North Korea.

6/20/2017 3:13:49 PM

NyM410
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Or that NK is a horrendous human rights violator and NO ONE should be subjected to this kind of punishment or behavior. It's disgusting to draw a parallel between that and our own system despite the fact that ours absolutely needs to be worked on (and unfortunately Jeff Sessions is basically a monster).

^^^ eh not sure. They don't want to kill them immediately. Just sustain to do work.

[Edited on June 20, 2017 at 3:47 PM. Reason : X]

6/20/2017 3:45:54 PM

tulsigabbard
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Quote :
"It's disgusting to draw a parallel between that and our own system despite the fact that ours absolutely needs to be worked on"

Being disgusted by someone saying your human rights violations are the same as someone elses' makes you a hypocrite. The biggest point is that you live in the USA and have alleged power (democracy) to control what happens. You don't have any control over what happens in NK.

Why don't you do everything you can to try to fix the violations of human rights in the horrendous system you are part of before you worry about something similar on the other side of the world which you have absolutely no part in?

6/20/2017 3:54:48 PM

Dentaldamn
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Cool. Let me pen my congressman.

6/20/2017 6:34:28 PM

tulsigabbard
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You probably already voted for and elected some of the many people in power who don't care.

6/20/2017 9:09:48 PM

Dentaldamn
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Chuck Schumer mothaaaa fuckaaaa!!!!!

Yvette Clark. She's cool too.

[Edited on June 20, 2017 at 9:19 PM. Reason : ??????????]

6/20/2017 9:18:01 PM

tulsigabbard
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Schumer's about as good as it gets as far as people in office but he's still far from ideal
Quote :
"Voted YES on reinstating $1.15 billion funding for the COPS Program. (Mar 2007)
Voted YES on $1.15 billion per year to continue the COPS program. (May 1999)
Voted NO on allowing Habeus Corpus appeals in capital cases. (Mar 1996)
Voted NO on maintaining right of habeas corpus in Death Penalty Appeals. (Mar 1996)
Voted YES on making federal death penalty appeals harder. (Feb 1995)
Voted NO on replacing death penalty with life imprisonment. (Apr 1994)
Rated 63% by CURE, indicating mixed votes on rehabilitation. ("

I'm about two buildings outside of Clarke's district. Kinda weak on police brutality.
Quote :
"Rated 69% by the NAPO, indicating a moderate stance on police issues. "

6/21/2017 2:41:11 PM

Dentaldamn
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The NYPD run shit around here. You gotta be nice to them.

6/21/2017 5:38:54 PM

Cherokee
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I was parked outside WTC one night making out with my ex back in December and got hassled by NYPD. They were dicks but I guess we looked like a suspicious car parked next to a pretty major thing. So I get it.

Aside from that, zero problems with NYPD.

6/21/2017 5:44:42 PM

JCE2011
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Quote :
"Why don't you do everything you can to try to fix the violations of human rights in the horrendous system"


What violations of human rights?

6/21/2017 6:16:58 PM

Dentaldamn
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Smoking a plant is a criminal offense!

6/21/2017 7:22:55 PM

tulsigabbard
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I don't believe there is anyone living anywhere in the world with an internet connection could have trouble naming at least one US human rights violation. Read this. Everything North Korea does, the US also does.
https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2016/country-chapters/united-states

I'm not getting caught in the JCE loop
1. you ask what is going on
2. someone tells you what is going on
3. you don't believe it is going on
4. examples are cited
5. you say those are just anecdotal
6. research is cited
7. you say the research is "research" with a SJW agenda
8. someone asks for your "real" facts
9. you don't produce them

[Edited on June 21, 2017 at 10:09 PM. Reason : keep em honest]

6/21/2017 10:07:13 PM

Cherokee
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I mean based on Geneva, the "enhanced interrogation techniques" are human rights violations. That should be the first example anyone thinks of.

6/21/2017 10:18:38 PM

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Quote :
"Everything North Korea does, the US also does"


FOH Earl.

Show your math.

[Edited on June 21, 2017 at 11:17 PM. Reason : Shit I think I just got Earl'd. Happens to the best of us I guess.]

6/21/2017 11:17:05 PM

JCE2011
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The Earl Loop:

1. Make a radical criticism against a western civilization
2. Move the goalposts, retreat from your original outrageous claim (ie, rape vs sexual assault in military)
3. Post a "study" from an obviously biased source claiming that cops use oppressive words like "just" 5% more often with black people, and act as if anyone gives a fuck.

6/21/2017 11:33:00 PM

Cherokee
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Quote :
" Reason : Shit I think I just got Earl'd. Happens to the best of us I guess."


lol

6/22/2017 12:17:19 AM

tulsigabbard
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You guys seem to have no idea about why North Korea is the way it is because you've been brainwashed. The funniest part of this whole thing is we are the reason North Korea does all of their crazy shit. From a historical perspective, we created the terrible situation in North Korea by carpet-bombing the entire country. Your propaganda education never taught you about the atrocities your country has committed and still commits today. They are paranoid because they were carpet bombed into oblivion. We are paranoid over something that pales in comparison (9/11). The difference is less than proportional.
Quote :
"Show your math."

Ok. Help me out by adding to the list of terrible things North Korea does. I got most of these from the UN

1. Develops nuclear weapons
2. Imprisons too many people in poor conditions (100,000 in camps)
3. Goes after the families of their enemies
4. No freedom of expression
5. State Propoganda
6. Widespread class discrimination
7. Arbitrary detention and torture
8. Restrictions on food (31% malnourishment)

As for the US

1. ~1000 times worseIts not really close here. We used nuclear weapons in open atmosphere. Maybe the first was for a reason but the 2nd and over 216 all after were for no reason other than to prove to the rest of the world that our ability to do the most disgusting thing ever done was not an accident and could be easily replicated. We then proceeded to blow up the planet with them just for fun for several decades. Its bad that North Korea has created less than 10 nuclear weapons, terrible, but its proportionally worse that the US has created about a thousand times more that are as much as a thousand times more powerful (and used those too)


2. Comparable North Korea is actually the only country that might have a similar incarceration rate as the US. We still have the most prisoners in the world and treat the lowest of our prisoners similarly to what goes on in North Korea. Abroad, torture and "enhanced interrogation tactics" take place for detainees and POWs. People are held without trial or reason in Guantanamo Bay. At home, prisoner abuse is widespread and conditions in many prisons are inhumane. Police forces also use torture as well as secret detention centers
http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/30/world/meast/iraq-prison-abuse-scandal-fast-facts/index.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/09/world/cia-torture-guantanamo-bay.html
http://abcnews.go.com/US/rikers-island-history-inmate-abuse-allegations-surveillance-videos/story?id=39234996
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/10/10000-files-on-chicago-police-torture-decades-now-online/504233/


3. Comparable"Collateral damage" is no secret. We've killed hundreds of thousands of innocent people with drones, airstrikes and wars just because they are near people who we consider enemies.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1eXRXL0nkk
"You have to take out their families"

4. Much betterNorth Korea is a lot worse no question but we are being monitored at all times.

5. DifferentPeople (including you guys) not knowing about any of the atrocities your country commits is all the evidence I need here. The methods are different but the result is the same

6. ComparableThis horse has been beaten to death. I know JCE types won't accept the concept of racism or discrimination in the US though. The US has this AND has it based on race which is even worse.

7. same Covered already
http://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/costs/social/rights/detention

8.Comparable We have a 36% obesity rate in the US and just like in North Korea with malnutrition, its mostly the poor and uneducated who don't have access to healthy food. They also can't get access to the healthcare that would help them cope with the associated diseases
https://www.niddk.nih.gov/health-information/health-statistics/overweight-obesity

Propaganda machines can point out certain things and try to make one look worse than the other, but at the end of the day, they are both terrible regimes. I'll leave you with a great satirical quote
Quote :
"Why are you guys so anti-dictators? Imagine if America was a dictatorship. You could let 1% of the people have all the nation's wealth. You could help your rich friends get richer by cutting their taxes. And bailing them out when they gamble and lose. You could ignore the needs of the poor for health care and education. Your media would appear free, but would secretly be controlled by one person and his family. You could wiretap phones. You could torture foreign prisoners. You could have rigged elections. You could lie about why you go to war. You could fill your prisons with one particular racial group, and no one would complain. You could use the media to scare the people into supporting policies that are against their interests."

6/22/2017 12:32:58 AM

Cherokee
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/spl/hi/uk/06/prisons/html/nn2page1.stm

Valid on the number of prisoners. But you have to dig into the reasons people are incarcerated. We are supremely fucked up given the drug laws but the prisoners in NK are there because of either no crime at all or because they criticize their government. Also, prison conditions in NK are demonstrably more deplorable than in the US. Prison guards don't roast prisoners over spits while ripping their stomachs open in the United States. They also don't lock prisoners into chest-sized boxes for months at a time while placing scorpions and other stinging insects inside of them.

Quote :
"1. Develops nuclear weapons
2. Imprisons too many people in poor conditions (100,000 in camps)
3. Goes after the families of their enemies
4. No freedom of expression
5. State Propoganda
6. Widespread class discrimination
7. Arbitrary detention and torture
8. Restrictions on food (31% malnourishment)"


1) Developing nuclear weapons doesn't make them bad. It's the fact that they develop nuclear weapons while threatening to flat out launch them as a first strike against the US. Now, to an extent you can argue that the fear they have causing them to develop them is valid - you only have to look at a few examples in recent history where countries that gave up nuclear weapons lost all chance at standing up for themselves in the world. Btw, Ukraine is a perfect example of one of them and is not one of the first two countries most people would name as an example. North Korea is the most likely country (yes, above Iran) to use a nuclear weapon as a first strike weapon simply to prove they are strong. Their leader is a lot like Donald Trump in many respects when it comes to personality.

2) Conditions in the United States' prisons do not even come close to those in North Korea (or the gulags in Russia or the concentration camps in Nazi Germany). Even when we interned Japanese Americans (really, Americans of Japanese descent) we did not subject them to anything even resembling these conditions. Prisoners in North Korea will dig through human feces to eat a single kernel of corn. Prisoners in America get three square meals. That's just one example.

3) Every human on the planet will do this. In the United States, it's done in a political manner. No one goes to prison because of something their relative did. In North Korea, a single family member defecting automatically condemns two levels of their family to the gulags until death. Also, your point about collateral damage - take Iraq as an example. The hundreds of thousands of dead were mostly killed for two reasons 1) they were killed by their own countrymen (Sunni death squads, Shia death squads, etc.); 2) they were killed incidentally because their combatants hide behind women and children and non-military males as a strategy. Read No True Glory (Fallujah battle) for a good example). The rules of engagement under which our forces fight are incredibly rigid, tight and designed to save the most lives possible.

4) I'm not sure people would place this in the top ten of their complaints of North Korea. But again, in America, you can express all you want. Maybe you'll lose a job at most but you'll never be thrown in prison for it and certainly not for life. As for being monitored at all times, not sure what you mean here. If you mean we are somewhat of a democracy and any citizen can monitor and question what's going on to challenge the government, how are you saying we are even comparable to North Korea?

5) Propaganda is inherent in every single system on the planet. The difference between NK propaganda and US propaganda is this - in NK, you have three television channels. One of them is the government channel, one is the government news channel and one blasts all the movies that Kim Jong ___ had his government movie studio produce. In America, unless you are choosing to watch Armed Forces Television, you can freely choose 1) where your news comes from and 2) you can spend as much time as you want digging into sources to find the truth out for yourself.

6) In North Korea, you have zero chance to change class. In the United States, you can go from crack dealer to billionaire (Jay Z for example). You can go from farm boy to chairman of the federal reserve (Ben Bernanke). You can go from foreign college student to CEO of a space program (Elon Musk). Class discrimination (and racial discrimination) is certainly rampant here. But you can overcome it far more easily. That is an objective fact, even though there can be significant hurdles.

7) I contest the word "arbitrary" here if you are referring to enemy combatant status on a battlefield. In terms of the Geneva Conventions, I'm with you. But it's not arbitrary. US troops don't just pick a country, walk up to a house and imprison someone and then torture them. Eighteen year old Marines and soldiers are sent into battle and pick up people that either were shooting at them or were most likely shooting at them. They are defending themselves. They don't walk into Germany and start arresting people at random. That being said, the enhanced interrogation techniques are absolutely an abomination in American history.

8) Not sure what you're saying here. NK can't feed its people and some of that is likely due sanctions imposed by the western world (led by the United States). But that being said, we'd GLADLY send them all the food in the world if they would dismantle their nuclear weapons program. Also, obesity doesn't imply a glut of food. You can become obese chowing down on a small amount of high fat content. Doesn't mean you have a fuck ton of food.

I've been drinking so apologies if I've missed some things here. But trying to argue that America even comes close to NK in terms of negative points is a joke. You'd have made a better argument if you went back and spoke about how we treated the Native Americans or African Americans if anything.

Quote :
"Ok. Help me out by adding to the list of terrible things North Korea does. I got most of these from the UN."


Terrible things North Korea does? Read the following:
Escape from Camp 14: One Man's Remarkable Odyssey from North Korea to Freedom in the West
Nothing to Envy: Ordinary Lives in North Korea

Now, all of that being said, some related books I think you'd actually enjoy (aside from No True Glory):
Confessions of an Economic Hit Man
Terrorism And International Justice
Dirty Wars: The World is a Battlefield
Inside Syria: The Backstory of Their Civil War and What the World Can Expect
Why Nations Fail: The Origins of Power, Prosperity, and Poverty
Learning to Eat Soup with a Knife: Counterinsurgency Lessons from Malaya and Vietnam
The Iraq War: A Military History
Lifting the Fog of War
Black Flags: The Rise of ISIS




[Edited on June 22, 2017 at 1:48 AM. Reason : a]

6/22/2017 1:35:39 AM

tulsigabbard
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Great post by Cherokee. I'll have to check out some of that reading.
Quote :
". But you have to dig into the reasons people are incarcerated. We are supremely fucked up given the drug laws but the prisoners in NK are there because of either no crime at all or because they criticize their government."

Being locked up for a crime you didn't commit is the same thing as being locked up for no crime at all. Criticizing the government in North Korea diminishes the power of that government. Our government is corporations and using illegal drugs diminsihes the power of those corporations. The nations are very different, so even though the disregard for human rights is similar, the abuse minefests itself in ways that appear different.

Quote :
" Developing nuclear weapons doesn't make them bad. It's the fact that they develop nuclear weapons while threatening to flat out launch them as a first strike against the US."

We also have a first strike policy.
Quote :
"North Korea is the most likely country (yes, above Iran) to use a nuclear weapon as a first strike weapon simply to prove they are strong."

This is speculation we can never know. In contrast, it is historical fact that the US has already done this.
Quote :
"Prisoners in America get three square meals. That's just one example."

Torture doesn't have to be food depravation. We have many other forms of torture. In fact, force feeding is one of them.
Quote :
"2) they were killed incidentally because their combatants hide behind women and children and non-military males as a strategy. Read No True Glory (Fallujah battle) for a good example). The rules of engagement under which our forces fight are incredibly rigid, tight and designed to save the most lives possible."

People are usually near their families. When you drop a bomb in a targetted strike, you are essentially disregarding the lives of their families. Our president literally said we have to take out their families. Policies are one thing but action is different. The US has great respect for rights on paper. The constitution is also great. The problem is, the policies aren't being followed.
Quote :
" As for being monitored at all times, not sure what you mean here. If you mean we are somewhat of a democracy and any citizen can monitor and question what's going on to challenge the government, how are you saying we are even comparable to North Korea?"

The government tracks what you do on the internet, your phone calls, everything. All to enhance thier own power. Remmeber the patriot act? The huge NSA database? Selling internet history?
Quote :
" US troops don't just pick a country, walk up to a house and imprison someone and then torture them. "

That is EXACTLY what we did in Iraq (after bombing it to hell). Where have you been?
Quote :
" are sent into battle and pick up people that either were shooting at them or were most likely shooting at them. They are defending themselves."

First of all, of course people will shoot if they find vandals on their land. The same thing would happen in most of this country. Thats how people respond to intruders and no you are not defending yourself if you are in someone elses yard and kill them for threatening you.

Second of all, after shooters were picked up and tortured to give up the names of other insurgents (when they had none), names of innocent people were given out to end the torture, and then the innocent people were brought in to be tortured. This went on and on for over a decade.
Quote :
"But that being said, we'd GLADLY send them all the food in the world if they would dismantle their nuclear weapons program. "

We wouldn't. (See Venezuela)
Quote :
"Also, obesity doesn't imply a glut of food. You can become obese chowing down on a small amount of high fat content. Doesn't mean you have a fuck ton of food."

I never said that. It means you don't have access to healthy food and healthcare, which is what I said.
Quote :
"You'd have made a better argument if you went back and spoke about how we treated the Native Americans or African Americans if anything."

Well no shit we were much worse back then there is no need for an argument because in those days, we were one of the most brutal nations in the history of humanity. I want you to look past the wealth and nuances of human rights violations to see that human rights are being violated.

6/28/2017 6:09:39 PM

tulsigabbard
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Great post by Cherokee. I'll have to check out some of that reading.
Quote :
". But you have to dig into the reasons people are incarcerated. We are supremely fucked up given the drug laws but the prisoners in NK are there because of either no crime at all or because they criticize their government."

Being locked up for a crime you didn't commit is the same thing as being locked up for no crime at all. Criticizing the government in North Korea diminishes the power of that government. Our government is corporations and using illegal drugs diminsihes the power of those corporations. The nations are very different, so even though the disregard for human rights is similar, the abuse minefests itself in ways that appear different.

Quote :
" Developing nuclear weapons doesn't make them bad. It's the fact that they develop nuclear weapons while threatening to flat out launch them as a first strike against the US."

We also have a first strike policy.
Quote :
"North Korea is the most likely country (yes, above Iran) to use a nuclear weapon as a first strike weapon simply to prove they are strong."

This is speculation we can never know. In contrast, it is historical fact that the US has already done this.
Quote :
"Prisoners in America get three square meals. That's just one example."

Torture doesn't have to be food depravation. We have many other forms of torture. In fact, force feeding is one of them.
Quote :
"2) they were killed incidentally because their combatants hide behind women and children and non-military males as a strategy. Read No True Glory (Fallujah battle) for a good example). The rules of engagement under which our forces fight are incredibly rigid, tight and designed to save the most lives possible."

People are usually near their families. When you drop a bomb in a targetted strike, you are essentially disregarding the lives of their families. Our president literally said we have to take out their families. Policies are one thing but action is different. The US has great respect for rights on paper. The constitution is also great. The problem is, the policies aren't being followed.
Quote :
" As for being monitored at all times, not sure what you mean here. If you mean we are somewhat of a democracy and any citizen can monitor and question what's going on to challenge the government, how are you saying we are even comparable to North Korea?"

The government tracks what you do on the internet, your phone calls, everything. All to enhance thier own power. Remmeber the patriot act? The huge NSA database? Selling internet history?
Quote :
" US troops don't just pick a country, walk up to a house and imprison someone and then torture them. "

That is EXACTLY what we did in Iraq (after bombing it to hell). Where have you been?
Quote :
" are sent into battle and pick up people that either were shooting at them or were most likely shooting at them. They are defending themselves."

First of all, of course people will shoot if they find vandals on their land. The same thing would happen in most of this country. Thats how people respond to intruders and no you are not defending yourself if you are in someone elses yard and kill them for threatening you.

Second of all, after shooters were picked up and tortured to give up the names of other insurgents (when they had none), names of innocent people were given out to end the torture, and then the innocent people were brought in to be tortured. This went on and on for over a decade.
Quote :
"But that being said, we'd GLADLY send them all the food in the world if they would dismantle their nuclear weapons program. "

We wouldn't. (See Venezuela)
Quote :
"Also, obesity doesn't imply a glut of food. You can become obese chowing down on a small amount of high fat content. Doesn't mean you have a fuck ton of food."

I never said that. It means you don't have access to healthy food and healthcare, which is what I said.
Quote :
"You'd have made a better argument if you went back and spoke about how we treated the Native Americans or African Americans if anything."

Well no shit we were much worse back then there is no need for an argument because in those days, we were one of the most brutal nations in the history of humanity. I want you to look past the wealth and nuances of human rights violations to see that human rights are being violated.

6/28/2017 6:10:45 PM

JCE2011
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Earl, you should go live in North Korea. You would be able to escape the oppression of America and enjoy the communist lifestyle you so desperately push for, comrade.

6/28/2017 8:09:20 PM

tulsigabbard
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But that goes against what I am saying. I am saying that both nations are brutal. I happen to be in a privileged position where the regime's brutality benefits me. The North Koreans who hold high positions within the regime are also happy. I'm focusing on the people who are being oppressed by both of these evil nations and trying to use my power and influence bring about change from within the one I live instead of making excuses about how "at least I'm not violating human rights as brutally as the other guy"

[Edited on June 28, 2017 at 8:25 PM. Reason : keep em honest]

6/28/2017 8:21:32 PM

JCE2011
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To equate the 2 is complete intellectual dishonesty.

The "brutality" of capitalism resulted in South Korea.
The "brutality" of communism resulted in North Korea.

6/28/2017 8:26:46 PM

tulsigabbard
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Capitalists are already intellectually dishonest by default because the costs of capitalism are externalised. Its easy to disconnect yourself from the victims of captailism because they are on the other side of town or even the other side of the planet. They are also in the future. It doesn't take much intellectual power to see capitalism as a good system considering how most of the people paying for your lifestyle don't even exist yet. (or don't exist anymore)


Its easy to say we don't torture in America when we only build our torture prisons abroad.

Its easy to say capitalism gave you a great iphone when the mother who gave you the iphone is living in a workcamp in China.

Its easy to say America prospered because of its consitution and legal system when your ancestors didn't provide the free land and free labor for it to prosper.

Its intellectually easy to talk about how great system is when you are the privileged.

THAT IS WHAT PRIVILEGE IS

[Edited on June 28, 2017 at 8:43 PM. Reason : easy]

6/28/2017 8:42:27 PM

NyM410
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Quote :
"The North Koreans who hold high positions within the regime are also happy."


This is pretty nuts even for Earl.

6/29/2017 8:25:49 AM

BEU
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Talk to someone who has fled NK.

You have to try really really hard and twist yourself into a pretzel to find anything close to a comparison for NK and US. People who do this are harming the country by voting with that craziness inside them.

6/29/2017 9:15:11 AM

tulsigabbard
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I think its a good thing that they got the ICBM. Obviously, it sucks for me, because now, I could die in the war, but i like the idea of a small nation standing up to the bully.

I know you can't just pull the rug out but I would be happy seeing a withdrawal schedule for all of the US troops. I would negotiate a deal for countries to pay us for defense, if I were in charge.

7/4/2017 3:06:46 AM

nacstate
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So does Trump have his war now?

7/4/2017 7:48:56 AM

NyM410
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https://twitter.com/secdef19/status/880198471579443200

The correct approach. Unfortunately a high-level envoy to this administration is Kushner.

7/4/2017 7:51:22 AM

tulsigabbard
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In response to some earlier posts:

Obviously, conditions in North Korea are worse than in the US but its all relative. The point is that both have severe disregard for human rights.

A lot of the same people who don't understand this comparison can't see that Assad is much better than ISIS. That logical inconsistency is evidence that you are just agreeing with US policy/propaganda instead of positions based on critical thought.

7/4/2017 1:51:03 PM

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