Quote :

"Boy Scouts reconsiders policy against gay membership (CNN) -- The Boy Scouts of America is considering changing its longstanding policy against allowing openly gay members, according to a release from the organization. The organization, which has 2.7 million members, is "potentially discussing" doing away with its policy after months of nationwide protest, including hundreds of angry Eagle scouts renouncing their hard-earned awards and mailing back their red-white-and-blue medals. Many parents of Scouts across America found the national policy excluding gays confusing -- and at odds with basic scouting ideals. Social media was abuzz with outrage over the policy; gay men who used to be Boy Scouts spoke out in first-person blogs. On her TV talk show, Ellen DeGeneres featured a California scout who had been denied his Eagle rank because he is gay."

Quote :

"President Barack Obama -- the honorary head of the Scouts, as is every president -- supports gay and lesbians in Girl and Boy Scouts, as does former Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney, a Mormon."

I'm not surprised to see this happening. As I said in a drunknloaded thread on DADT some 6 years ago:

Quote :

"If the British can have openly gay men and women in their military... and even their boy/girl scouts allow openly gay members since programs like these tend to follow the nations military"

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/01/28/16739587-boy-scouts-close-to-ending-ban-on-gay-members-leaders?lite

Quote :

"Boy Scouts close to ending ban on gay members, leaders The Boy Scouts of America, one of the nation’s largest private youth organizations, is actively considering an end to its decades-long policy of banning gay scouts or scout leaders, according to scouting officials and outsiders familiar with internal discussions."

It also makes sense for this youth focused organization because it's already such a non-issue for the under 40 crowd.

Quote :

"The discussion of a potential change in policy is nearing its final stages, according to outside scouting supporters. If approved, the change could be announced as early as next week, after the BSA's national board holds a regularly scheduled meeting."

I believe the girl scouts don't have any such ban. In fact I think I remember reading about one of those NOM or Focus on the Family type groups trying to boycott girl scout cookies over them being too inclusive.

1/28/2013 4:41:19 PM

About fucking time.

And, yeah, The Girl Scouts are pretty cool about this sort of shit.

1/28/2013 4:47:20 PM

The madness continues.....

Politicians in uniform think that sexual assault is a problem in the military because men and women aren't together enough. http://freebeacon.com/dempsey-combat-ban-contributed-to-sexual-assault-problem/

Now boy scouts think that, despite expelling 5000 men as scout leaders over the past 50 years for possible sexual abuse (by men against boys, of course), adding open homosexuals to camping trips is an excellent idea. http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/national/boy-scouts-of-america-molestation-sex-scandal-files-eight-palm-beach-county-men-on-blacklist

What could go wrong with gay men and young boys in the wilderness?

1/28/2013 5:55:52 PM

Really? Do you also think all the pedophile Catholic priests are also gay?

http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/facts_molestation.html

Quote :

"Members of disliked minority groups are often stereotyped as representing a danger to the majority's most vulnerable members. For example, Jews in the Middle Ages were accused of murdering Christian babies in ritual sacrifices. Black men in the United States were often lynched after being falsely accused of raping White women. In a similar fashion, gay people have often been portrayed as a threat to children. Back in 1977, when Anita Bryant campaigned successfully to repeal a Dade County (FL) ordinance prohibiting anti-gay discrimination, she named her organization "Save Our Children," and warned that "a particularly deviant-minded [gay] teacher could sexually molest children" (Bryant, 1977, p. 114). [Bibliographic references are on a different web page] In recent years, antigay activists have routinely asserted that gay people are child molesters. This argument was often made in debates about the Boy Scouts of America's policy to exclude gay scouts and scoutmasters. More recently, in the wake of Rep. Mark Foley's resignation from the US House of Representatives in 2006, antigay activists and their supporters seized on the scandal to revive this canard. It has also been raised in connection with scandals about the Catholic church's attempts to cover up the abuse of young males by priests. Indeed, the Vatican's early response to the 2002 revelations of widespread Church cover-ups of sexual abuse by priests was to declare that gay men should not be ordained."

Quote :

"Conclusion The empirical research does not show that gay or bisexual men are any more likely than heterosexual men to molest children. This is not to argue that homosexual and bisexual men never molest children. But there is no scientific basis for asserting that they are more likely than heterosexual men to do so. And, as explained above, many child molesters cannot be characterized as having an adult sexual orientation at all; they are fixated on children."

Just because you think of gays as chlid rapists, doesn't justify kicking gay youth even at the eagle scout level out of the BSA.

I understand why the organization has been slow to move on this though, with Mormons being the largest scouting group by far, and they've been big into the anti-gay politics with Utah mormons being the main funders of Prop 8 in California, but if even Romney has moved on, I expect we'll see an announcement next week from the BSA that moves towards inclusion.

1/28/2013 6:15:27 PM

Quote :

"Really? Do you also think all the pedophile Catholic priests are also gay?"

Yes, sexual attraction to those of their own sex makes them gay, and they generally aren't molesting girls.

1/28/2013 6:23:30 PM

http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/28/us/boy-scouts-policy/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

Quote :

"Members of the organization's national board are expected to bring up the issue at a regularly scheduled biannual meeting in February. Any change would be announced after that. In the Scouts' statement Monday, the group indicated that the national board may consider passing any decisions on gay membership to the local level. Each troop's charter organization would be able to decide "consistent with each organization's mission, principles, or religious beliefs." "The policy change under discussion would allow the religious, civic, or educational organizations that oversee and deliver Scouting to determine how to address this issue," the statement said."

^You'll be happy about this then, even if the national group drops its ban, individual groups will still be able to kick gay kids out. They'll just have the option not to automatically do it, if they so choose.

1/28/2013 6:40:36 PM

Quote :

"Really? Do you also think all the pedophile Catholic priests are also gay? "

uhh

1/28/2013 6:42:22 PM

Gay Scout Denied Eagle Award Says He Believes in God

Quote :

"Oct. 5, 2012 The Boy Scouts of America say that Ryan Andresen was denied his Eagle Award because of a violation of the organization's religious principles, but the 17-year-old refutes that, saying he believes in a "higher power." "...The only reason he's being denied the rank of Eagle is because the Boy Scouts of America has a problem with Ryan being gay," said his mother, Karen Andresen, 49. Andresen has spent a decade completing the requirements for the coveted award, and now that he is just about to turn 18 -- the cut-off date for attaining the highest honor -- his Moraga, Calif., his troop won't approve it. ABCNews.com has placed multiple calls and sent emails to the teen's Troop 212 scoutmaster, Rainer Del Valle, but he has not returned calls for comment. Deron Smith, spokesman for the Boy Scouts of America, released this statement today: "This scout proactively notified his unit leadership and Eagle Scout counselor that he does not agree to scouting's principle of 'Duty to God' and does not meet scouting's membership standard on sexual orientation. Agreeing to do one's 'Duty to God' is a part of the scout Oath and Law and a requirement of achieving the Eagle Scout rank." Smith also said that even though the Boy Scouts does not actively ask the sexual orientation of boys, discussions with the Andresens have made Ryan "no longer eligible for membership in scouting." He said the "ideals and principles" in the Scout Oath and Law are "central to the mission of teaching young people to make better choices over their lifetimes." Ryan's project, a "tolerance wall," was inspired by the years of hazing he endured in middle school and later at Boy Scout summer camp, where his nicknames were "Tinkerbell" and "faggot." "I had no idea what gay was at that point," said Andresen, who described hazing that included, among other rituals, having the word "fag" written in charcoal across his chest. "It was really embarrassing and humiliating," he said. "And I was terrified." His mom was so upset by the troops' decision that she posted a petition on Change.org. "It was not his idea, it was mine," she said. In the petition, Andresen cited the merit badge -- "Citizenship in the Community." "[It] means standing up for what is right, and I am proud of Ryan for doing just that," she wrote. "Will you stand with him, too?" His father, Eric Andresen, who had joined the troop as the chief administrator to help his son with the bullying, was confronted by the scoutmaster and told that because Ryan was gay, he could not sign off on the project. His father resigned "on the spot." ..."

It continues on, but you get the idea..
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/gay-boy-scout-denied-eagle-award-believes-god/story?id=17407747

Sooo....this kid spends a decade+ learning how to tie knots, eat acorns, pitch a tent in a monsoon, make a raft out of a raccoon carcass, yet is denied their highest rank/honor because he isn't aroused by boobs? I am glad that at least someone of influence in the BSA has a sense of reason. . .

1/28/2013 7:39:00 PM

Quote :

"What could go wrong with gay men and young boys in the wilderness?"

Bears?

1/28/2013 7:47:37 PM

Most pedophiles are male, why even allow male scout leaders? Clearly just having the penis leads to child raping.

1/28/2013 7:55:52 PM

^^ reminds me of



[Edited on January 28, 2013 at 8:01 PM. Reason : .]

1/28/2013 7:59:57 PM

Quote :

"Most pedophiles are male, why even allow male scout leaders? Clearly just having the penis leads to child raping."

Yep, clearly the threat is the same between men who like penises and men who don't.

1/28/2013 8:01:56 PM

^
http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/facts_molestation.html

Quote :

"Using the fixated-regressed distinction, Groth and Birnbaum (1978) studied 175 adult males who were convicted in Massachusetts of sexual assault against a child. None of the men had an exclusively homosexual adult sexual orientation. 83 (47%) were classified as "fixated;" 70 others (40%) were classified as regressed adult heterosexuals; the remaining 22 (13%) were classified as regressed adult bisexuals. Of the last group, Groth and Birnbaum observed that "in their adult relationships they engaged in sex on occasion with men as well as with women. However, in no case did this attraction to men exceed their preference for women....There were no men who were primarily sexually attracted to other adult males..." (p.180). "

Considering this, maybe we should ONLY allow gay scout leaders.

[Edited on January 28, 2013 at 8:05 PM. Reason : .]

1/28/2013 8:04:13 PM

They don't even say how many of those convicted of "sexual assault against a child" had abused boys.

That's just a little bit relevant, you know.

Besides, it works against you anyway. Sexual deviants are significantly over-represented in the very groups you cite.

Gays, lesbians, and bisexuals all totaled are no more than 5-6% of the population, under generous definitions. http://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/wp-content/uploads/Gates-How-Many-People-LGBT-Apr-2011.pdf

Yet, 13% of those child-abusers were called bisexuals (by people that were highly motivated to understate the number of gays and bisexuals in that offending population).

So, are you now willing to say that the paper you just cited shows that gays and bisexuals are at least twice as likely to molest children in general, not even mentioning boys in particular (which would tack on an order of magnitude)?

[Edited on January 28, 2013 at 8:17 PM. Reason : s]

1/28/2013 8:15:55 PM

Not all homosexuals are pedophiles, kind of like how not all gun owners kill children

1/28/2013 8:27:37 PM

^^
No, because none of them were gay, and all of the bisexuals preferred women over men. It's not about sex, it's about age.

1/28/2013 8:32:27 PM

"Suppose Mark Foley had been caught having sex with a dog. And it was a male dog, so he announced, 'Yes, I'm gay.' Would people go, 'Oh, well that figures?' No! They'd go 'What the hell does that have to do with it? You were fucking a dog!' And that's really what should be happening here."

1/28/2013 8:41:00 PM

who gives a fuck? if you don't like it, don't let your kid participate.

bullshit like this distracts americans from real issues.

1/28/2013 8:58:58 PM

Does the reverse hold true?

If young boys are under the same threat by gay or straight men, then are young girls just as vulnerable to gay men as straight men?

That's about how much sense this makes.

1/28/2013 8:59:16 PM

yeah, lol at you people saying that older men touching younger boys isn't homosexual behavior.

it's not all about them being gay, you're correct about that. it's all about them being fucked up and gay.

1/28/2013 10:06:32 PM

^,^^ I'm not sure what impugning normal gay people serves then. Perpetual fearmongering of the gheys is directly akin to the hackneyed tripe that white women should watch out for the black man because he's sex-crazed. It's specious and insulting for someone who appears to have attended college.

Why not just be happy that one of the most supposedly hallowed organizations in America is taking steps towards finally joining the 21st century? Does that threaten your self-perceived power structure or own sexuality? Sheesh.

[Edited on January 28, 2013 at 10:20 PM. Reason : ---]

1/28/2013 10:20:08 PM

Gay men are not at any more risk than heterosexual men to sexually abuse children. If they were, you would hear a lot more about teachers abusing their students. Try to find a news article from a reputable source about a gay man in a position of authority abusing children and I will find you 100 about a supposedly "straight" man doing it. Of course you don't want to let your kids be around the wrong type of people, but that is strictly a character issue and has nothing to do with sexual orientation.

Most of you are intelligent enough to realize this, thankfully. I'm not surprised to see that the resident dipshits, Tuliplover and MisterGreen, are the only ones worried about this though.

1/28/2013 10:48:57 PM

I was under the impression that the opinion of those two was laughed at in the 70's as being ridiculous and against all evidence to the contrary i.e. Anita Bryant

it's 2013 for fucks sake

1/28/2013 11:52:52 PM

Quote :

"Does the reverse hold true? If young boys are under the same threat by gay or straight men, then are young girls just as vulnerable to gay men as straight men? That's about how much sense this makes. "

Umm... what?

I don't know about you, but as a straight man, i don't view myself as a "threat" to young girls? Are you suggesting that you have to constantly stop yourself from taking advantage of young girls? Or that gay men are a threat to young girls?

Because your last post REALLY makes you seem like a closet pedophile... maybe this is a case of the lady protesting too much... wow.

Giving you the benefit of the doubt, being a pedophile and being gay not the same things. Pedophilia is a disease.

[Edited on January 29, 2013 at 12:00 AM. Reason : ]

1/28/2013 11:58:19 PM

where do people like tuliplovr come from?

geeeeeeeeeeeeez

1/29/2013 12:12:27 AM

Quote :

"Not all homosexuals are pedophiles, kind of like how not all gun owners kill children"

kind of like how not all bigots literally bash gay kids

Now more seriously, TULIPlovr (the name says a lot~♥) is like a typical consumer of the media in being outraged more at the fact that boys are being molested (whether by Scout leaders or Catholic priests) than that kids are; I found, for example, that 19% of the victims of Catholic priests were girls, but they tended to be younger (about 1/3 of them were under 8, and a slight majority of the victims under 8 were girls) and they were much more likely to be routinely abused by priests (and to be the only victims of their priests) and their cases remained under wraps for longer and were not as widely publicized by the media.

1/29/2013 1:53:32 AM

I grew up at a summer camp where we had both openly gay counselors and campers. I lived in cabins with those in each category. At no point was I ever afraid of being sexually assaulted or harassed. But this conversation is completely off topic.

The fact of the matter is that BSA is supposed to create brotherhood and instead has spent this long creating hate.

Scout Law:

Quote :

"A Scout is: Trustworthy, Loyal, Helpful, Friendly, Courteous, Kind, Obedient, Cheerful, Thrifty, Brave, Clean, Reverent"

Excluding others and spreading prejudice goes against this creed. BSA is finally doing the right thing

Here is the official release by the BSA:

Quote :

"Boy Scouts of America Monday, Jan. 28, 2013 Attributable to: Deron Smith, Director of Public Relations “For more than 100 years, Scouting’s focus has been on working together to deliver the nation’s foremost youth program of character development and values-based leadership training. Scouting has always been in an ongoing dialogue with the Scouting family to determine what is in the best interest of the organization and the young people we serve. “Currently, the BSA is discussing potentially removing the national membership restriction regarding sexual orientation. This would mean there would no longer be any national policy regarding sexual orientation, and the chartered organizations that oversee and deliver Scouting would accept membership and select leaders consistent with each organization’s mission, principles, or religious beliefs. BSA members and parents would be able to choose a local unit that best meets the needs of their families. “The policy change under discussion would allow the religious, civic, or educational organizations that oversee and deliver Scouting to determine how to address this issue. The Boy Scouts would not, under any circumstances, dictate a position to units, members, or parents. Under this proposed policy, the BSA would not require any chartered organization to act in ways inconsistent with that organization’s mission, principles, or religious beliefs.” "

No chapter would be forced to accept anyone, it would be a case-by-case basis. So if any specific group has a religious objection, they can keep on hating.

[Edited on January 29, 2013 at 4:50 AM. Reason : -]

1/29/2013 4:42:41 AM

^^ You know why I'm focusing on the abuse of boys instead of all children? Check the thread title. It says BOY Scouts.

To the rest of you, it is obvious that reality has not made a single dent in your ideology.

Then again, it's expected.

There was once an outspoken gay man who flaunted his sexual predation of teens, who felt odd for messing with a 24 year old (because he had never had someone so old), who lobbied for cult leader Jim Jones to get custody of a child (whom Jones would later poison), who told a young, suicidal former 'lover' not to make a mess when he killed himself, who false-flagged the bombing of his own store to ramp up support for his cause, and who lied about his military record for the same reason.

And this is just what we know from writings and interviews with his friends and sympathizers.

This person now gets a holiday in his honor and a movie that does a very nice makeover on his vile life.

If Harvey Milk can be changed from absolute scum to patron saint, then there isn't a whole lot you all won't defend.

[Edited on January 29, 2013 at 5:34 AM. Reason : carrots]

1/29/2013 5:27:05 AM

Noted heterosexual Thomas Jefferson raped his slaves.

What was your point again?

1/29/2013 7:18:53 AM

Quote :

"Most of you are intelligent enough to realize this, thankfully. I'm not surprised to see that the resident dipshits, Tuliplover and MisterGreen, are the only ones worried about this though. "

at what point did i say, or even suggest, that i am opposed to gays joining the scouts?

i was only commenting on the sidebar itt in regards to what defines homosexual behavior.

not surprising you would lash out at me though, seeing as you make up whatever you feel like in pretty much every thread and present it as "fact."

now run along now, pack up your bong, and try to avoid dropping out of school again, k?

[Edited on January 29, 2013 at 7:42 AM. Reason : .]

1/29/2013 7:24:23 AM

And the old woman at the beginning of Titanic is a fictional character and its not a true story about her survival

1/29/2013 7:26:50 AM

Quote :

"There was once an outspoken gay man who flaunted his sexual predation of teens, who felt odd for messing with a 24 year old (because he had never had someone so old), who lobbied for cult leader Jim Jones to get custody of a child (whom Jones would later poison), who told a young, suicidal former 'lover' not to make a mess when he killed himself, who false-flagged the bombing of his own store to ramp up support for his cause, and who lied about his military record for the same reason. And this is just what we know from writings and interviews with his friends and sympathizers. This person now gets a holiday in his honor and a movie that does a very nice makeover on his vile life. If Harvey Milk can be changed from absolute scum to patron saint, then there isn't a whole lot you all won't defend."

Someone apparently doesn't know Gandhi was a pedophile.

1/29/2013 8:15:27 AM

^^ You didn't say, which means that your contributions are equally worthless to this topic, which means that your contributions are as equally as worthless as all of your other contributions.

1/29/2013 8:19:19 AM

I'm a Cub Scout leader and 1 of 3 Eagle Scouts in my family and I'm in Scouts in fucking Carrboro. We don't have anybody that is openly or closeted gay that I know of and to be honest I really don't care much either way. Bottom line, I'm not leaving my kid alone with anybody I don't trust, straight or otherwise. And as an involved parent who really enjoys scouting, I'll be at everything. So I'm not worried about it either way, and really, nobody else should either. We are trained on two-deep leadership, so no scout is left alone with one adult. The ridiculous bullshit that National used to do where they would cover up and not share information about leaders exploiting children is done. With the litigious nature of society today if they tried covering up that shit now, they would have a PR and legal nightmare on their hands. So now instead of protecting the leaders, they are protecting the scouts. If you are even accused of something you are immediately banned from EVERYTHING until a scouting & legal investigation is completed. You are basically guilty until proven innocent, which is kinda fucked up if you are truly innocent, but better to err on the side of caution with young impressionable children involved.

1/29/2013 8:27:36 AM

Quote :

"Tuliplover and MisterGreen, are the only ones worried about this though"

Quote :

"You didn't say"

thanks for confirming that you were, once again, completely making shit up. lots of people on this board disagree with me, but at least they provide some sort of citation, link, or evidence.

personal opinions aside, you are seriously the least credible person on this board. you should take a cue from me and "not contribute."

1/29/2013 8:36:06 AM

Once again, your opinion is worthless.

1/29/2013 8:46:17 AM

Once again, this thread is completely off topic. If you want to discuss a fake correlation between homosexuality and child abuse then please by all means talk about it somewhere else.

This is a huge step forward in a world striving for equality between all humankind.

1/29/2013 3:29:02 PM

I can tacitly go along with the notion that if the BSA is a wholly private entity that receives 0 taxpayer money, then they can be however repugnantly discriminatory they wish. They just simply weigh the cost/benefits of the negative image vs. whomever is paying their bills.

While I was never a scout and find them a little cultish when I encounter them on trail, I applaud their step forward into the 21st century.

1/29/2013 4:01:49 PM

I got my Eagle, I loved being in the scouts, but over the 6 or so years that I was involved, I saw things change quite a bit, from a troop that valued educating kids in outdoor activities and leadership to a bureaucratic nightmare that would send kids home for failing to meet the strict handbook dress code requirements.

This was more of an issue with the individual troop politics and adult leadership, but its a similar tale to what's happened nationally over the last few decades. At the moment I'm not sure I'd get my son involved with Scouts, I believe the lessons taught through scouting can be accomplished through a number of other groups. If the BSA changes its tune in the next few years and becomes accepting, not just tolerant, of ALL young men then I'd be glad to get my son involved.

1/29/2013 6:13:11 PM

I have found quite the opposite myself. In my area it is a lot more lax than it was when I was in Scouts in eastern NC. Carrboro area it least has all different types of Troops to choose from. A couple are super strict types, a couple are for the really rich kids who travel to like Spain and Brazil to go mountain hiking, and some are just middle of the road. I am very excited about that as my little rural area had only two real Troops to choose from. Love the variety available up here.

1/29/2013 6:25:35 PM

^^^IIRC it does receive some taxpayer funds

1/29/2013 6:41:19 PM

Good grief, I just did a quick google about the preferential treatment that the BSA gets from the federal government, and it's quite staggering. The whole damn thing is quite a mess.

1/29/2013 7:00:55 PM

^^ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boy_Scouts_of_America#Finance
It's a 501-c-3 which means it enjoys the tax breaks of a not for profit org, but it does not receive funds from the govment. At least not in the direct sense. It is one of the largest 501-c-3's out there, at this receives special sponsorships and partnerships with organizations that receive tax payer money like the armed forces and other government groups with like minded ideals.

^^^ Yeah I was thinking more on the national scene. There were 4 troops I was involved with as a scout in Raleigh. My home troop and 3 others that some friends were in that we partnered with sometimes for scout camps and other fee heavy trips. Our troop started really laid back on a lot of the BS stuff and mainly focused on outings and helping kids advance that wanted it. By the time I left they spent more time discussing proper uniform requirements and they made advancement and merit badges priority number for everyone over all aspects. 2 of the other troops were like this, sticklers for uniforms, but had kids that never slept in tents. The other troop was as laid back as it got. I liked that troop, and there were only 8 kids in it, so everyone had their eagle by 15.

[Edited on January 29, 2013 at 7:11 PM. Reason : ]

1/29/2013 7:10:44 PM

Here's an instance of the government back financial benefits to the group that I remember reading about a while back:

http://www.towleroad.com/2008/05/bigot-boy-scout.html

Quote :

"You may remember back in December I posted that the Boy Scouts would be evicted on June 1st from the Philadelphia building they've been renting for $1 a year since 1928 because the city is forcing them to abide by its non-discrimination policies and the Boy Scouts continue to refuse to open up their membership to gays. Well, the Scouts aren't having it and they've filed a lawsuit against the city to avoid paying the $200,000-a-year rent the city will soon begin charging them to occupy the landmark property"

I'm glad the national level ban policy is likely on it's way out, stuff like this is ridiculous:

http://www.towleroad.com/2013/01/boy-scouts-successfully-bully-troop-into-dropping-non-discrimination-policy.html

Quote :

"[b]Boy Scouts Successfully Bully Troop Into Dropping Non-Discrimination Policy/b] 01/27/2013 Maryland-based Boy Scout Troop 442 defied the national leadership's anti-gay culture by posting a non-discrimination policy on their website last week. The national Boy Scouts of America responded by threatening to pull their charter, and, sadly, the threat did the trick: Troop 442 had no choice but to remove its inclusive notice"

1/29/2013 10:36:10 PM

^ You can find instances of things like that in almost any 501-c-3 group, especially one that represents itself as building moral character and advancing leadership among young men.

There are a lot of groups that receive funding from the Feds, but the Scouts aren't one of them.

Granted, they do benefit from low/no rent tax payer facilities, but it's a HUGE grey area because providing for 501-c-3's is a two way street. For instance the benefits a lot of military bases give to the Boy Scouts makes the Philadelphia story look like chump change, but they see the Scouts as a an excellent recruitment pool. The same can be said for municipal, county or state facilities. A lot of scouting involves community service, and more often than you would think, those services are provided for the community that houses them. For example, the church that sponsored my troop growing up had about a dozen community service projects that directly benefited the church.

Not to mention a lot of these facilities are provided for use due to the fact that they'd otherwise sit empty during meeting times. All it takes is an adult leader who is active in the community that operates the facility to lobby for free meeting space.

Is it immoral to exclude gays and atheist from the BSA? Yes. Is it illegal? No
If they receive a check from congress to subsidize some of their operating cost then they have no right to discriminate. But they are a private group, who doesn't receive federal money to subsidize anything. Every group out there has the to negotiate with government groups for reduced rent/costs, the BSA just happens to be very very good at it, in part to their long history and strong ties to a TON of community, municipal, federal leaders & decision makers

1/29/2013 11:07:23 PM

^ and there are probably a bunch of troops across the country that have or accept gays "under the table" (either by not asking questions, or just doing it without talking about it).

You have to break an egg to make an omelet though, and although I support the Boy Scouts, at least some troops need to feel the pinch to force inevitable policy changes from the top down.

Blocking them out of facilities, etc., was a necessity.

1/29/2013 11:16:16 PM

Quote :

"Blocking them out of facilities, etc., was a necessity."

Oh i agree completely on this. But it's up to each individual community as to what it finds acceptable. And the military is a great counterpoint to that, until the end of DADT, it's values were very much aligned with the BSA and they had no rule that said they should work only with groups that are accepting of all young men.

And I think the problem a lot of the under-the-table troops create is an approach of indifference to the whole thing. If the brass of an organization has values that are aligned with the community it's serving, then it's time to reevaluate, which is what I can only speculate is happening now. But it won't help anyone if troop and council leaders stay quiet on the issue.

1/29/2013 11:27:22 PM

Quote :

"There are a lot of groups that receive funding from the Feds, but the Scouts aren't one of them."

You're off by a few tens of millions of dollars.

Granted, that will decrease significantly with the Jamboree moving from A. P. Hill. Until very recently, however, BSA regularly received millions of dollars in support from the feds.

1/30/2013 1:27:33 AM

Call 972-580-2330 and say you're "FOR" the proposed policy change (allowing gay members): https://www.facebook.com/jelewis2/posts/499270440124991

1/30/2013 7:01:47 PM

http://news.yahoo.com/super-bowl-interview-obama-speaks-gay-boy-scouts-220243458.html

Quote :

"In Super Bowl Interview, Obama Speaks Out on Gay Boy Scouts: 'Yes' Should the Scouts be open to gays? It's a clear-cut issue for the President. "Yes," he said during his pre-Super Bowl interview with CBS's Scott Pelley. When asked to expand on his answer, Obama said equality trumps all. "Gays and lesbians should have access and opportunity the same as anybody else," he said."

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/?hpt=hp_t3

Quote :

"Perry condemns potential scouting change to allow gay members (CNN) - Texas Gov. Rick Perry spoke out Saturday against potential changes which could permit, for the first time, openly gay members in the Boy Scouts of America."

2/3/2013 8:33:37 PM