http://news.yahoo.com/nyc-soda-size-rule-eyed-coffee-shops-clubs-163636105.html

This sounds like a stupid law to me. What is going to stop someone from getting a free refill, or ordering a second soda? That would be no different than people ordering a second beer at the bar. I think it could even make things worse in some situations. People could end up pouring even more sugar in their coffee than what the machine at Dunkin' Donuts puts in the cup. Curing the obesity problem starts with exercise and making good eating choices, not the size of the drink that the resturant serves. I'm not in great shape, but I do work a physical job and play soccer 3 nights a week while avoiding the soda machine and coffe pot at work. When it gets hot out and I play 3+ games a week I can get my weight down to 159 lbs. Most of the time I stay around 165 lbs. I don't always eat the best diet either.

Thoughts on this law?

3/9/2013 12:33:13 PM

Quote :

"I'm not in great shape, but I do work a physical job and play soccer 3 nights a week while avoiding the soda machine and coffe pot at work. When it gets hot out and I play 3+ games a week I can get my weight down to 159 lbs. Most of the time I stay around 165 lbs. I don't always eat the best diet either."

3/9/2013 1:36:53 PM

This is one of those threads where if you defend the policy at all, your credibility goes directly down the toilet.

3/9/2013 1:42:59 PM

well. it was instituted by an elected official, so it's got that going for it

3/9/2013 2:32:58 PM

A lot of people are going to be drinking a lot less soda because of this law.

Normally, I'm not in favor of nanny-state stuff. I just hate fat people.

3/9/2013 2:58:53 PM

Quote :

"A lot of people are going to be drinking a lot less soda because of this law. "

No, they aren't. This doesn't prevent anyone from buying large sodas in stores or gas stations. It doesn't prevent anyone from getting refills. It's certainly not going to prevent them eating a shitload of food and still getting fat.

3/9/2013 3:04:16 PM

I support anything that points out to people that their coffee is a milkshake, not a coffee. The ban on large sugary coffee drinks is my favorite part, I hate fat people and hate them with 30oz mocha frappachinos with extra whip.

And as a jealous diabetic, I wish I was in NYC so I could enjoy everything about it

3/9/2013 3:04:55 PM

I appreciate what he's trying to do but it's still unfair to business owners if you can still get the Big Gulp at 7-11 because the law is selective.

Public education and outreach would have been a better solution here than a legislative one, in my opinion.

3/9/2013 3:10:37 PM

Guys, the government knows what is best for you, let them handle it.

3/9/2013 4:45:43 PM

this issue is about government reach, not if they know what's best. unless you would like to explain how giant sugary drinks are best for me, then go ahead.

3/9/2013 6:07:31 PM

they taste more delicious that smaller sugary drinks?

3/9/2013 6:15:12 PM

I wish North Carolina lawmakers would propose laws similar to this because it would be funny if they tried

3/9/2013 6:27:00 PM

this kind of shit goes hand-in-hand with deeper government involvement in health care. expect more of it.

3/9/2013 7:42:45 PM

^^The article said something about it becoming a national law on Tuesday.

^And that is my problem with it too.

[Edited on March 9, 2013 at 8:01 PM. Reason : .]

3/9/2013 7:58:06 PM

^uhhhh... no

(^^and the government isn't in healthcare, its still private companies just like always. what we need is for the government to actually be in healthcare)

[Edited on March 9, 2013 at 8:02 PM. Reason : mrgreen's dumb comment]

3/9/2013 8:01:27 PM

^nm, you're right. I hope this doesn't become a fad everywhere though.

3/9/2013 8:07:45 PM

If you don't like it, don't go to NYC.

Or leave, if you're already there.

3/9/2013 10:15:34 PM

Our food industry is a huge reason we're over-weight (as a country, i'm not personally overweight). They focus on cheaper, unhealthier foods that are easy to market, which has become pervasive in our society. It looks like as a result of this law, businesses are already starting to evaluate their foods.

Yeah, if you want more drink, get more drink (the law SHOULDN'T stop this), but now hopefully food places will offer more than the same 5 GROSSLY unhealthy soft drinks available in every corner of the country. I'd like to go to Fl. and see some local-orange based drink, we should have grape and cherry based drinks in NC,and some apple-based drink up in the north west.

Anyone who'd argue that unlimited coke/pepsi/mtn dew/dr. pepper should be the beverage standard around the country is an idiot. The market has clearly failed us in this situation.

The law should be repealed though, there's too many situations where exemptions should be made, and it looks like they missed some, and they've made their point.

[Edited on March 10, 2013 at 2:21 PM. Reason : ]

3/10/2013 2:17:29 PM

Quote :

"and the government isn't in healthcare, its still private companies just like always. what we need is for the government to actually be in healthcare"

so what you are saying is that the government has absolutely zero involvement with the way healthcare is run in the united states?

[Edited on March 10, 2013 at 2:30 PM. Reason : dtownral's dumb comment]

3/10/2013 2:28:27 PM

only as much as the private insurance companies wanted them to be under the conservative created privatization "pro-business" model created by conservatives.

[Edited on March 10, 2013 at 3:20 PM. Reason : you know, that conservative republicans created because privatization fixes everything]

3/10/2013 3:19:37 PM

Quote :

"The market has clearly failed us in this situation."

How do you figure? The market isn't about providing you what's healthiest, it's about providing the people what they want. Clearly the people don't want to be healthy, if they did, they'd demand something else, or do what I do and just order water.

3/10/2013 3:20:22 PM

its also not a free market considering how much government money goes into subsidizing high fructose corn syrup, corn is in everything now because of it.

3/10/2013 3:28:05 PM

the government needs to be purged out of a lot of things

3/10/2013 4:18:19 PM

Quote :

"its also not a free market considering how much government money goes into subsidizing high fructose corn syrup, corn is in everything now because of it."

3/10/2013 7:10:17 PM

Will this affect beer!!!!!?????!!?

I just thought of this.

3/10/2013 8:00:26 PM

At least New Yorker's can still have unlimited Twinkies, right?

3/10/2013 9:00:39 PM

^^^ Fuck those corn subsidies and fuck this stupid law, too...and double-fuck any stupid dipshit who thinks this is a good idea or even acceptable.

3/10/2013 9:27:10 PM

Bloomberg was on Sunday Morning. His argument in a nutshell was yes, this won't prevent people from getting multiple drinks, refills, etc. but his thought was that people would be too lazy to get that second drink, refill, etc.

3/10/2013 9:46:04 PM

it in no way makes this okay, but that's going to usually be true

3/10/2013 10:02:27 PM

Quote :

"Bloomberg was on Sunday Morning. His argument in a nutshell was yes, this won't prevent people from getting multiple drinks, refills, etc. but his thought was that people would be too lazy to get that second drink, refill, etc."

So he thinks people will be too lazy to ask the server for a refill? Sometimes they bring me one when I don't even want one. Maybe things are different in NY though.

3/10/2013 10:34:11 PM

last time i ate in NYC refills were not free.

3/10/2013 11:14:47 PM

also people in NYC are by nature on the run and in a hurry all the time. So a lot of meals tend to be grab-and-go, which makes it unlikely that a customer would even get a refill.

Quote :

"At least New Yorker's can still have unlimited Twinkies, right?"

You remember what happened to Twinkies, right?

Quote :

"what we need is for the government to actually be in healthcare"

orly?

Also, fuck Michael Bloomberg

3/11/2013 11:58:34 AM

TSBers don't get jokes, do they?

3/11/2013 12:49:44 PM

ha, my b

maybe the gov't can buy the rights and produce gov't approved Twinkies

3/11/2013 2:23:14 PM

Quote :

"So he thinks people will be too lazy to ask the server for a refill? Sometimes they bring me one when I don't even want one. Maybe things are different in NY though."

LOL, have you even been to NYC? "Free Refills?" LOL, GTFO man.

3/11/2013 4:15:17 PM

Sometimes at a Chinese restaurant they will refill my water before I ask, but even that has become few and far between these days

This got thrown out by a NY Supreme Court judge btw (or am I late on this comment?)

Also, not to side with either side on this law, but just to comment on the idea that people will drink the same as they always did regardless of container size: According to a study I read a year or so ago on potato chips (no I will not waste my time finding it) people ate less of them when you put 20 little single serving bags in front of them instead of 1 giant bag. End point: Statistically speaking, people will consume less of something when they have are served less at a time

3/11/2013 4:54:23 PM

Biocked by the court

3/11/2013 4:58:07 PM

judge has blocked it

[Edited on March 11, 2013 at 4:58 PM. Reason : ^ i was here first]

3/11/2013 4:58:07 PM

fuck both of you I win

3/11/2013 5:01:28 PM

AINT NOBODY GOT TIME FOR THAT



One small step for small government supporters, one giant leap for healthcare budget deficits

[Edited on March 11, 2013 at 5:15 PM. Reason : .]

3/11/2013 5:15:23 PM

Quote :

"What is going to stop someone from getting a free refill, or ordering a second soda? "

Nothing. The idea is that if you get a 16 oz cup at McDonald's, where you have to get up and get the refill yourself, you might just go up and get one refill before you're done eating as opposed to getting a 64 oz cup and feeling like you have to drink the whole thing because you paid for it. The goal isn't to keep people from getting more soda, it's to change what people think of as the default.

[Edited on March 11, 2013 at 5:22 PM. Reason : Surprised it got blocked tho]

3/11/2013 5:21:40 PM

you're surprised it got blocked? with all the arbitrary rules and loopholes? i'm surprised it made it this long.

3/11/2013 5:31:01 PM

It was blocked on the grounds that it didn't apply to everyone, and in order to apply to everyone, it has to go through a legislature.

What happened to the idea that states were "incubators" that together helps find new ideas than the fed. government trying to take on more responsibility over the states?

Seems like this incubation would never happen, the way our current system works.

Quote :

"How do you figure? The market isn't about providing you what's healthiest, it's about providing the people what they want. Clearly the people don't want to be healthy, if they did, they'd demand something else, or do what I do and just order water. "

This isn't ideal because we as a society share health resources (and would under any system). Considering this fact, if this is how the market is "supposed" to work, then the market needs some help in this case.

[Edited on March 11, 2013 at 5:41 PM. Reason : ]

3/11/2013 5:40:11 PM

Speed limits are arbitrary
Gun magazine capacity limits are arbitrary
Age limits to smoke and to drink are arbitrary

If data show that people can't think for themselves, why cant there be a limit on a size of a single-serving container to help them know when to stop (I am not talking about resealable bottles that can be used over time and are obviously more economical than 6-pack of soda cans)

I realize that education is key to fighting obesity in a long term. But legislation can go hand-in-hand with public education. Look at the cigarette smoking statistics in the US over the last few decades.

3/11/2013 5:47:45 PM

just listing things you don't like doesn't make them arbitrary, speed limits are certainly not arbitrary.

3/11/2013 5:50:19 PM

Education is futile in a large number of cases, when it's not ingrained.

Over the past 10 years, I believe the obesity rate among kids has dropped, which is a testament to education, but this was also due to pressure via legislation to push health and physical education in schools.

And think of the outcry if the Obama administration started buying ads on TV and facebook telling people to eat healthier... people already flip out when Michelle obama tells people to grow vegetables and eat less junk food, and she's just making a suggestion that has 0 real power.

[Edited on March 11, 2013 at 5:53 PM. Reason : ]

3/11/2013 5:52:01 PM

Agencies get a lot of deference and it's tough to show that an agency action is arbitrary and capricious, that's all. If they're worried about it applying differently to bodegas than restaurants, there's an argument that people don't usually walk down the street chugging 2-liter bottles and therefore won't drink as much in one sitting if they buy from a bodega rather than from a restaurant, and it usually doesn't take a lot more than an argument that won't immediately get laughed out of the room.

[Edited on March 11, 2013 at 5:55 PM. Reason : .]

3/11/2013 5:52:37 PM

Quote :

"just listing things you don't like doesn't make them arbitrary, speed limits are certainly not arbitrary."

While I realize that there are calculations involved in setting speed limits, they are just as arbitrary as setting a safe single-serving or soda size. Just like big-gulp-lovers can argue that their body weight and and water capacity is much larger than average, people with high performance cars can say that they can hold the turns much better or stop much quicker than the bottom-line car that was used for safety calculations of the speed limit. What makes an 18-year old responsible adult, while the 17-year old a minor? What makes 21 year old responsible enough to drink while 20 year old is not? What makes an 8-round magazine a high-capacity one while 7-round magazine is standard?

All that shit is arbitrary.

3/11/2013 6:23:18 PM

I don't think this would have really made any dent in obesity rates, to me its just a symptom of our healthcare/disease control programs ability to grapple obesity. They are kinda just throwing out anything they think might make a difference and is politically tenable (even if just barely).


Now that sugar is starting to be directly linked to diabetes I could see certain foods with warning labels similar to cigarettes and cancer (say foods with some ratio of calories coming directly from sugar). Although, I'm not sure that alone would make a difference in obesity rates either.

3/11/2013 6:26:00 PM

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3/11/2013 8:56:27 PM