The white house is bound to want vengeance after this NSA leak, and Greenwald currently lives in Brazil so I assume he's fair game.

6/6/2013 7:28:14 AM

How do you know he hasn't already been replaced by an android?

6/6/2013 9:13:21 AM

The NSA scandal is the biggest yet. They no doubt wish they had taken care of the Greenwald problem earlier.

6/6/2013 9:16:58 AM

At first I thought this applied to the consumer portion of Verizon's business, however the New York Times states that the data pull was from their business unit, which provides service to corporations.

This to me is even more concerning than if they were just pulling records from you or I. Why businesses? Do they think that these American companies are providing financial support to terrorists worldwide? I don't see why they need to do this to protect national security.

The Patriot Act...this has to be Bush's worst legacy. Sure it worked for him and his administration at the time, but the bad thing about bills like the Patriot Act is that any usurper (to quote GoT) can come along afterwards and use it for whatever they want.

6/6/2013 9:29:07 AM

If they were using this data to monitor corporate political connections, stealing a few papers from the watergate hotel is nothing.

6/6/2013 9:34:33 AM

I feel certain that the current administration was just taking advantage of what the previous administration set up, however I think with all of the other "scandals' going on, it will def. be hard for Obama to shake.

From Forbes:

Quote :

"Aside from the sheer scope of that surveillance order, reminiscent of the warrantless wiretapping scandal under the Bush administration, the other shocking aspect of the order its target: The order specifically states that only data regarding calls originating in America are to be handed over, not those between foreigners."

[Edited on June 6, 2013 at 9:41 AM. Reason : asdf]

6/6/2013 9:38:36 AM

It occurred to me that the leaker chose a foreign newspaper to give this document to because he likely knew that the phone lines of the AP and NYT were bugged or believed the organizations themselves couldn't be trusted. In the wikileaks drama it was obvious that the NYT omitted any mention of the most damning aspects that british newspapers listed as headlines.

NYT has, however, confirmed the document is genuine.

People trying to donate directly to Glenn are reporting that their credit cards are being frozen due to "suspicious activity".
http://fundraisergg.blogspot.com.br/2013/06/reader-donations-information.html

6/6/2013 11:19:10 AM

Pardon my ignorance,and I don't want to google, but who exactly is Glenn Greenwald?

6/6/2013 11:45:35 AM

Journalist at the guardian that reported the story

Why people are donating to him, I have no idea.

[Edited on June 6, 2013 at 11:54 AM. Reason : .]

6/6/2013 11:53:37 AM

Quote :

"This to me is even more concerning than if they were just pulling records from you or I"

Why? Seems odd to me that you place the privacy of a corporation higher than the privacy of an actual person.

6/6/2013 12:38:07 PM

No, its the intent behind it. I can buy them tapping my cell phone to see if I'm talking to Jihadi Joe. What purpose do they have tapping corporate phones. Are they looking for big donors to PAC's or parties?

6/6/2013 12:40:04 PM

Still seems weird to me.

I don't want them listening to my calls. EVER.

6/6/2013 12:42:35 PM

That's not what this order permits.

Did anyone read the articles?

6/6/2013 12:49:29 PM

I did.

But that's just what's been leaked. I'm just not foolish enough to believe that actual spying goes much deeper than what has been initially reported. When taken on the aggregate with every other blog post that Greenwald writes up (I read his stuff regularly), it's pretty obvious that there is a lot of domestic spying going on.

[Edited on June 6, 2013 at 12:53 PM. Reason : ]

6/6/2013 12:52:58 PM

Yes we read it...the order permits collection of metadata.

But still, why do they need all that metadata?

6/6/2013 12:54:01 PM

^^Right, I get that. Don't you think the leaker would have released that information too though, if it were happening?

I mean, actually listening in on all american's phone conversations is pretty goddamn sensational.

^i haven't read the court order yet, is the government's argument discussed?

[Edited on June 6, 2013 at 12:58 PM. Reason : .]

6/6/2013 12:56:06 PM

thats assuming the leaker had access to that information.


The inertia of domestic spying has been steadily gaining momentum for about a decade now. Whether or not they're listening to conversations is irrelevant. What matters is that the NSA has been slowly eradicating all pretenses of personal privacy in an effort to fight communism terrorism. Add to that, it's not just journalists or guys named Mohammad that are being targeted (as if that by itself weren't bad enough), but ordinary citizens in bulk. This, of course, is on top of other methods of surveillance such as e-mail and text communications, etc. The fact that the government has set forth the legal blue-print in secret to monitor and analyze your communication behavior should be cause for concern for anybody who wishes to live in an open society.

I don't see what's sensational about that.



[Edited on June 6, 2013 at 1:03 PM. Reason : ]

6/6/2013 1:01:35 PM

Yes, I do assume the leaker would have knowledge of it. This particular order is TOP SECRET/SI/NOFORN.

If dude has need to know and access to that, you can bet he/she would have access to other similar orders.

And I was saying there would be no reason not to release it too, because that disclosure would be sensational.

6/6/2013 1:09:49 PM

Quote :

"If dude has need to know and access to that, you can bet he/she would have access to other similar orders."

First of all, I don't think this is necessarily true. But whatever, I'm not really interested in that hypothetical.


But we already know that the previous administration wiretapped people without warrents. We now know that the current administration collects data in bulk on Americans who aren't even suspected of any wrongdoing. Their is an obvious slide going in the direction of mass surveillance going on in this country. That, to me, is alarming. But apparently it is not with you? (that's a sincere question, I don't really understand your position)

I think it's very likely that the public will learn more details that expose even more and egregious acts of domestic spying in the near future. That much, I'm certain of. Unless, of course, journalists start getting prosecuted under the espionage act for releasing leaked information or having their revenue streams suffocated (both of which happened/could happen to Julian Assange, for example)...which, as absurd as that sounds, doesn't seem out of the question given recent events.



[Edited on June 6, 2013 at 1:20 PM. Reason : ]

6/6/2013 1:19:33 PM

Quote :

"But apparently it is not with you? (that's a sincere question, I don't really understand your position)"

Where did I say that? Of course it is alarming.

Forget I said that a revelation that regular citizens's conversations being monitored would be sensational and substitute alarming instead.

6/6/2013 1:36:57 PM

gotcha.

6/6/2013 1:37:46 PM

i remember reading about some facility way out west that gets a wire from all the major telecoms and uses voice recognition to flag certain words that sound terrorist-y.

Maybe this one is just better confirmed? Lots of people already assumed they had this power, and more.

6/6/2013 2:03:16 PM

http://www.wral.com/report-us-collecting-huge-number-of-phone-records/12522837/

Quote :

""If you're not getting a call from a terrorist organization, you've got nothing to worry about," he said."

Glad that cleared it up.

Next phone call I'm going to qualify "now you know this phone call is being monitored by my government for terrorism. so you better not be calling me about that."

Oh and Reid, he'll put your concerns right to rest.

Quote :

"Senate Democratic leader Reid played down the significance of the revelation. "Right now I think that everyone should just calm down and understand that this isn't anything that's brand new," he said. "

It's not new, so stop getting upset about it. Look how irrational smc has been. It's already been going on for 7 years with no ill effects. Obviously that makes it constitutional.

6/6/2013 3:51:37 PM

Goodnight, sweet prince

6/6/2013 7:28:29 PM

Cell phone meta-data is for chumps.

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/technology/2013/06/nsa-prism-program/65994/

6/7/2013 3:08:26 AM

If the collection of this metadata is so vital to our country's protection, then tell me how this metadata helped us capture the Boston bombers and the guy who tried to bomb Times Square.

6/7/2013 7:57:31 AM

It looks like a kid made that report in 1995

6/7/2013 8:34:38 AM

Why didn't TWW make the slide? Are we not important enough

6/7/2013 9:03:53 AM

I hate to say it, but even nuttier-than-a-fruitcake glenn beck was right on this one.

6/7/2013 10:26:59 AM

How, exactly is he nuttier than a fruitcake? Is it because his columns stray from the narrative set forth by establishment circles?

"If the story is too easy, if you're doing a piece on a sensitive topic and factoids are not only reaching you freely, but publishing them is somehow not meeting much opposition from people up on high, then you're probably eating Chumpbait.

There's an obvious Chumpbait angle in the Bradley Manning story, and most of the mainstream press reports went with it. You can usually tell if you're running a Chumpbait piece if you find yourself writing the same article as 10,000 other hacks."

--Matt Taibbi

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/blogs/taibblog/as-bradley-manning-trial-begins-press-predictably-misses-the-point-20130605

6/7/2013 12:03:02 PM

I think they'll go after Edward Snowden first: http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/intelligence-leaders-push-back-on-leakers-media/2013/06/09/fff80160-d122-11e2-a73e-826d299ff459_story.html

6/9/2013 6:18:48 PM

my god that is an epic development.

I didn't think I would see something like this in my lifetime. If only this could motivate us to change something...

6/9/2013 6:43:25 PM

Rand Paul wants to put forth a Supreme Court class action suit. The Supreme Court is our only chance here, politics will prevent real change in congress or the White House.

We're a long way from "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety" when the damn president says "You can't have 100% security and also then have 100% privacy and zero inconvenience"

Snowden is a Hero

[Edited on June 9, 2013 at 9:43 PM. Reason : Damn autocorrect]

6/9/2013 9:42:46 PM

RIP Edward Snowden

6/9/2013 11:17:44 PM

What kind of moron takes credit for this? You've done quite enough good by leaking the info, what good does it to do be prosecuted for it?

6/10/2013 9:23:46 AM

You're such an intellectual.

6/10/2013 10:09:19 AM

^^ because remaining anonymous didn't work out very well for Bradley Manning?

6/10/2013 10:15:21 AM

Bradley Manning didn't intentionally out himself probably, the guy who identified him promised him confidence.

I still don't see the point of putting a target on your back.

6/10/2013 10:20:12 AM

Say you're about to leak a document that shows the NSA automatically gathers all call data in the nation.

You're sitting in your apartment, you have all the documents organized and ready to go.

All that's left is to pick up the phone and contact a major news organization.

oh... right.

6/10/2013 10:56:34 AM

This dude worked for the CIA and NSA. Yeah, he totally couldn't have found a more discrete way to get in touch.

6/10/2013 11:30:36 AM

What's wrong with grandstanding?

6/10/2013 11:32:44 AM

http://www.policymic.com/articles/47355/edward-snowden-interview-transcript-full-text-read-the-guardian-s-entire-interview-with-the-man-who-leaked-prism

Quote :

"You can't come forward against the world's most powerful intelligence agencies and be completely free from risk because they're such powerful adversaries. No one can meaningfully oppose them. If they want to get you, they'll get you in time."

These are literally the most powerful people on Earth. When you access a document in these organizations it probably adds a cryptographic tag of the exact machine you're on, your employee number, and you're most precious family members encrypted in the image background.

6/10/2013 11:41:03 AM

This guy has much more of a fighting chance than Bradley Manning for numerous reasons.

Public perception: The 12 minute interview, the bravery of his actions, the well-spoken supporting moral and ethical arguments he made, and the careful and precise regard for the consequences of his actions will paint this man as being of strong character and integrity. He doesn't come across as malicious. He has not stood to gain anything from his actions, when he could have used them for such purposes. He is willing to stand up for what he believes in rather than hiding. With these ideals he speaks directly to the heart of the American spirit and people will respect and admire him for that. They may even stand up for him. We love a good underdog.

Attention to disclosures: Snowden carefully limited what would be leaked so as not to make the case that he endangered American security. Try to make that case, I dare ya. It cannot be made. He obviously learned a thing or two from Bradley Manning on what not to do when leaking classified documents.

Anyways, his fate will be determined by a PR fight plain and simple. The mainstream media will undoubtedly try to smear him. We will have to see if the citizenry can stand up for him. Overall, I'm pleased with these results because he has by association validated less popular leak efforts that I have and will continue to support including Wikileaks, Anonymous, and Occupy.

[Edited on June 10, 2013 at 1:56 PM. Reason : .]

[Edited on June 10, 2013 at 1:58 PM. Reason : BTW I'm referring to Snowden, not Greenwald.]

6/10/2013 1:54:50 PM

Quote :

" What kind of moron takes credit for this? You've done quite enough good by leaking the info, what good does it to do be prosecuted for it?"

I think you can make the argument that he now stands to gain MORE public support after outing himself rather than remaining anonymous. He probably figured that the NSA would quickly figure out who it was, anyway. At least now he can win the fight of public opinion. Any harm that may come his way will now be viewed as intentional and malicious. And unlike Manning and Assange, the victims of this leak are the American people who were targeted without just cause (rather than foreigners who were murdered), so public support will probably have more certainty power in this case unlike the others.

[Edited on June 10, 2013 at 4:27 PM. Reason : ]

6/10/2013 4:25:14 PM

^^ I can't disagree with anything you've said there, other than your attempt at painting Manning as a whistleblower. Your points specifically highlight why Snowden is a whistleblower while Manning is not, namely Snowden's ability to link what he released to the exact issue to which he was trying to call attention and the fact that Snowden only released what was necessary to do so. Meanwhile, Manning can barely string together a coherent sentence, much less explain why minor after-action reports have anything to do with whatever the hell he was trying to do.

As for why anyone would out themselves like that, I'd say, like others, that the NSA probably knew who did it the moment the documents were released. I think I had heard that they had already been asking his girlfriend and family about him a couple days before the Guardian's article. Another possible reason is that he didn't want anyone else to have to be looking over their shoulder when it was all his own doing.

6/10/2013 8:07:09 PM

100% agree with burro

6/10/2013 8:12:09 PM

Quote :

"As for why anyone would out themselves like that, I'd say, like others, that the NSA probably knew who did it the moment the documents were released. I think I had heard that they had already been asking his girlfriend and family about him a couple days before the Guardian's article. Another possible reason is that he didn't want anyone else to have to be looking over their shoulder when it was all his own doing."

Yeah, this makes a lot of sense actually.

6/11/2013 9:36:26 AM

Really once people get bored with hearing this, it'll be forgotten just like the other dozen scandals. Some people will still harp on it online, or make some useless petition.

I think it'll just die down after a couple months then no one will care all their conversations are monitored.

6/11/2013 10:36:26 AM

^

Quote :

"The National Security Agency has been secretly collecting the phone call records of tens of millions of Americans, using data provided by AT&T, Verizon and BellSouth, people with direct knowledge of the arrangement told USA TODAY."

http://yahoo.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-05-10-nsa_x.htm

Updated 5/11/2006 10:38 AM ET

6/11/2013 10:43:04 AM

anyone else think that the actions of the NSA is in direct violation of the 4 Amendment? I sure as hell do.

I mean we all know the government has been shitting all over the Constitution for a very long time, since before Obama and Bush Jr but this is just so blatant.

6/11/2013 1:27:07 PM