I expect this thread to be very boring. So I have a baby on the way and need a new (or used) car. I've looked at every manufacturer for new cars and there's only about 10 in my budget that aren't completely terrible (like a Nissan Cube or some shit). So here's my requirements:

1. Less than $25K - must
2. 4 Doors - must
3. Automatic - must (woman doesn't want to drive a stick with a newborn baby)
4. Reliability
5. Gas mileage
6. Looks - whatever, I think most midsize cars look fine

I'm not opposed to buying a used car, but I don't really trust people much, and really don't want to be paying $300/mo for a 12 year old car at the end, or have it break down like 2 years in..

So what do you car people recommend?

8/18/2013 8:12:36 PM

8/18/2013 8:20:35 PM

I don't know what new or very slightly used japanese sedan you COULDN'T get for 25k. i'd go for a brand new kia optima hybrid

8/18/2013 8:33:03 PM

Mazda 6

Or

Hyundai sonata

8/18/2013 8:59:33 PM

I second Mazda 6 - reliable, affordable, good value, fun to drive for a mid-size sedan, good looks imo, non-interference engine

8/18/2013 9:51:50 PM

Kia Soul

8/18/2013 11:19:58 PM

i'd buy a nice, year-old Volt or Prius PHEV.

8/18/2013 11:21:23 PM

civic

8/19/2013 12:19:40 AM

If you want an appliance Honda and Toyota are the best in that game.

If you want some spunk at the cost of a little reliability Hyundai sonata Kia optima etc are both nice cars

If you want brand new I'd get soul civic focus or fusion.

Fwiw I still don't trust old hybrids.

8/19/2013 7:54:53 AM

The new Mazda 6 and Honda Accord seem to be the best of the crop of new mid-sized FWD family haulers.

If going used I second the Pontiac G8. It sacrifices a little in gas mileage in the name of a much more enjoyable vehicle to drive, esp if you get the V8 model.

8/19/2013 8:42:46 AM

I had a 2013 Kia Optima SX Turbo and loved it. It had 274 hp and was plenty quick, but had all kinds of nice features as well. I would definitely recommend it.

8/19/2013 9:49:47 AM

^I was just going to suggest the Optima. Essentially the same car mechanically as the Sonata but I like the looks better and the suspension tuning is a little less conserviative. Panoramic sunroof is a really cool option. You'd probably have a hard time finding a loaded SX for under $25K but you could probably get a nicely optioned EX or a more basic SX at that price point. Reliability of these cars is almost a non-issue if you're buying new as they have the 100K mile warranty, but they've made great strides in that department (zero problems with my Kia Forte at two years old).

The new Mazda 6 does look intriguing as well, and the new Fusion is a damn good-looking car though I don't know about the dynamics of it.

Toyota is probably the most guilty of "car-as-appliance" IMO. The Camry puts me to sleep. The Accord is a little better but it's moved upmarket to the point where it almost doesn't compete with the more "true" midsize, i.e. Altima/6/Fusion/Optima/Sonata/Malibu/Passat/200. Not to mention its V6 is looking a little anachronistic when most of the competition have gone to 4-cylinder across the line with a turbo on the higher-trim variants.

8/19/2013 11:38:44 AM

I feel like the civic and those size are too small. It probably isn't, but I just don't think I would want to drive one. I have an accord coupe now and I couldn't really imagine going smaller.

The gf likes the Altima but nmsj, but it is intriguing since I've seen some low numbers. I think the 25k was a little aggressive, I probably need to be around 22 or so. I'm guessing my best bet should be a 2010-12 accord or Camry, or maybe a pretty base Kia or Hyundai or something.

Are certified preowned significantly more reliable or anything than a private owner?

8/19/2013 12:18:16 PM

theyre no more reliable, just guaranteed by the warranty you buy them with.

8/19/2013 12:27:48 PM

Quote :

" The Accord is a little better but it's moved upmarket to the point where it almost doesn't compete with the more "true" midsize, i.e. Altima/6/Fusion/Optima/Sonata/Malibu/Passat/200. Not to mention its V6 is looking a little anachronistic when most of the competition have gone to 4-cylinder across the line with a turbo on the higher-trim variants."

The Accord hasn't moved upmarket. It is still a direct competitor to every car you mentioned above. And there's nothing anachronistic about it's V6 when over 50% of the cars you just mentioned are available with a V6 (and what's the difference if it still gets superior gas mileage). I believe that the most expensive car from your above list is the Fusion. My money's still on the Mazda 6. It's been winning comparisons hand over fist.

[Edited on August 19, 2013 at 1:30 PM. Reason : k]

8/19/2013 1:26:49 PM

Quote :

"The gf likes the Altima but nmsj, but it is intriguing since I've seen some low numbers."

the reason you will see low numbers on this crap is because nissan offers rebates when they sell new which are equated to value lost when you try and get rid of it.

Get an accord or used TSX.

8/19/2013 1:54:19 PM

on Sonata vs Optima

iirc, the magazines loooved the new Sonata and didn't care much at all for the Optima

and imo the Kia's power numbers are very optimistic

8/19/2013 5:12:08 PM

Quote :

"The Accord hasn't moved upmarket. It is still a direct competitor to every car you mentioned above. And there's nothing anachronistic about it's V6 when over 50% of the cars you just mentioned are available with a V6 (and what's the difference if it still gets superior gas mileage). I believe that the most expensive car from your above list is the Fusion. My money's still on the Mazda 6. It's been winning comparisons hand over fist. "

I could be wrong on the Accord. It's just gotten so damn big I thought it was drifting into Taurus/Impala/Maxima territory, or at least it looks that big. I'll also give you the point on the V6 availability (it's exactly at 50% if you throw the Camry into the mix) but I think they're unnecessary when you can find 200+ HP I4's that will pull down 35+ MPG highway all day long.

The 6 does appear to be demolishing the competition.

Quote :

"on Sonata vs Optima iirc, the magazines loooved the new Sonata and didn't care much at all for the Optima and imo the Kia's power numbers are very optimistic "

I liked the looks of the Sonata when it came out, but now it looks overstyled to me, and it's got a somewhat feminine vibe. The Optima is just a better-looking car hands down (given 17" or 18" wheels, the standard LX 16" look lost in the wheelwells), and they're the same car under the skin, so unless the suspension tuning is too hard or the interior ergonomics suck, I really don't know what would be driving that bias.

8/19/2013 5:32:23 PM

The 2013 Fusions (after the redesign) are really nice. The new Altima and Accord are good too, but they have a CVT.

I would just get the base 4 cylinder in this segment. It's gotten to the point where the base engine has enough passing power for normal driving situations. The 2013 Altima has good acceleration in its class.

[Edited on August 19, 2013 at 7:15 PM. Reason : .]

8/19/2013 7:13:24 PM

You know, my Insight has a CVT. For how I use the car, it doesn't bother me at all.

Would I want it in a sports car or even in a sporty sedan like a 3-series or something? Fuck no. In an appliance car? Whatever.

8/19/2013 9:10:37 PM

i despise a cvt......even more than a crossover with a paddle-shifted automatic (the most pointless piece of shit to ever sweep the industry by storm)...

[Edited on August 19, 2013 at 9:22 PM. Reason : jmho]

8/19/2013 9:22:21 PM

What's the difference? I read a little, says it helps with the mileage.. Don't know much else. I really like how the fusion looks but I think it's out of my range unless I go a year or two used.

8/19/2013 9:38:54 PM

You have to drive a CVT to understand. Instead of revving, shifting gears, and revving, it behaves differently. Sometimes the revs hold at one rpm, sometimes it rises slowly, sometimes it "fake shifts." It's generally speaking better for fuel economy, and probably better for acceleration compared to some automatics with fewer gears. It just takes some getting used to.

8/19/2013 10:03:17 PM

Quote :

"It just takes some getting used to sucks if you like to decide what your transmission will do."

again jmo

8/19/2013 10:27:21 PM

Quote :

" I really like how the fusion looks but I think it's out of my range unless I go a year or two used."

That's unfortunately not going to work too well, as the Fusion is in the first year of its current design. You *might* be able to pick up a used one from right when they came out, but I'd be leery of having one of the very first of a totally redesigned model.

8/20/2013 1:30:34 AM

If he could swing 25, negotiate and get a year end clearance kind of deal I think he could get one.

8/20/2013 7:42:27 AM

Quote :

" I'll also give you the point on the V6 availability (it's exactly at 50% if you throw the Camry into the mix) but I think they're unnecessary when you can find 200+ HP I4's that will pull down 35+ MPG highway all day long. "

I totally agree with you there. My buddy and his wife recently bought an Accord V6 EX-L (little over $30k I think). I asked him why they got the V6, as it's totally unnecessary (standard I4 has 185-190hp I believe). My buddy said his wife wanted the extra power...lol, ridiculous.

Also, tchenku, the Kia & Hyundai have the exact same powertrains so I dunno how you got the impression that the Kia's power numbers are optimistic.

8/20/2013 9:17:55 AM

Quote :

"My buddy said his wife wanted the extra power...lol, ridiculous."

and he got nearly 100 more horsepower, on a car that's rated at 34mpg on the highway, instead of 34-36 with the 4. why is that ridiculous again?

8/20/2013 10:29:08 AM

Because even my buddy admitted he didn't see the point of paying an extra $5k for something that will barely get used.

8/20/2013 10:52:56 AM

So you're agreeing with me that it's not ridiculous now?


[Edited on August 20, 2013 at 11:19 AM. Reason : 0-60 in well under 6 seconds for a boring family hauler like that is nothing to sneeze at]

8/20/2013 11:17:07 AM

* - "it" = choosing the 6 over the 4, not your buddy saying he won't use the power much.

8/20/2013 12:18:57 PM

yeah that's what I was saying. Just like the woman with 2 kids that INSISTS on having a 3 row SUV

8/20/2013 1:11:01 PM

Perhaps she's planning on having more kids and/or hauling other people's kids

My sis-in law insists on more power too and drives the shit out of her 535i. Perhaps his wife really will enjoy that extra power. What's to say she won't? Because she's a woman?


This reminds me of that scene from Waiting:

Waiter: What will you have to drink?
Redneck: I want a single shot of whisky, and a double shot of whisky, and she'll have water. You know, what the hell. It's our anniversary. Would you bring her a Pepsi?

[Edited on August 20, 2013 at 2:17 PM. Reason : ]

8/20/2013 2:08:10 PM

The thing I'm wondering is, if you want a car that can hit 60 in under 7 seconds, why get an Accord at all? Even if you're all about Honda reliability, I'd take a year-old TSX over a new V6 Accord any day.

(I have no beef with the Accord, I owned one for a while, it's less boring than a Camry, but that's not saying much. The old ones still had something of a fun-to-drive factor due to being relatively light and not too big, and letting some feedback through to the driver even though the handling still sloped toward benign understeer. I can't see that still being the case.)

8/20/2013 3:39:33 PM

^^no they said they're not having more kids

Also I love Waiting

Quote :

"The thing I'm wondering is, if you want a car that can hit 60 in under 7 seconds, why get an Accord at all? Even if you're all about Honda reliability, I'd take a year-old TSX over a new V6 Accord any day. "

Well the problem with this...is that the Accord V6 is faster than a TSX...so...yeah

8/20/2013 3:49:15 PM

(while getting better MPGs too if you're into that)

8/20/2013 4:19:37 PM

Haha, why would anyone give a fuck about the performance of an Accord/Camry/Kia or Hyundai anything/etc, or the minor advantages in performance (or fun/non-boringness) of one over another?

8/20/2013 5:03:49 PM

I hope to never be in the market for one of those cars, but if I was, I would like it to go 0-60 in 5.6 vs 7.6. I wouldn't call that difference minor.

[Edited on August 20, 2013 at 5:17 PM. Reason : Hell Hyundai has a sedan with a 428hp V8]

8/20/2013 5:12:11 PM

Don't get one of fords dsgs yet the one in my company escape blows ass... So does the throttle mapping tho.

8/20/2013 6:09:56 PM

^^ yeah I'd gladly take the acceleration hit to a still more than acceptable 7.x 0-60 in favor of better fuel economy.

I mean, in an appliance car, what difference does it make how fast it is or where on the spectrum between "Maytag" and "Whirlpool" the handling is? All I give a shit about is high quality/reliability, high mpg, and low cost.

Evaluating one of those cars on how it drives and performance numbers is like grading my Seven on NVH or interior comfort.

8/20/2013 7:08:50 PM

Quote :

"yeah I'd gladly take the acceleration hit to a still more than acceptable 7.x 0-60 in favor of better fuel economy. "

Sure, but for some people (esp those who don't typically own sports cars) it's probably all kinds of fun to go 0-60 2 seconds faster and only trade a 1-3 MPGs in return.

Quote :

"Evaluating one of those cars on how it drives and performance numbers is like grading my Seven on NVH or interior comfort."

Sure, that's very true for someone who owned a Supercharged S2000/Vette/Evo/Seven and whatever else. But for someone "stepping up" from a Toyota Yaris to an Accord V-6, the difference in performance is pretty significant.

8/20/2013 7:21:14 PM

My Mazda 6 was a damn good car, just couldn't find another one in the configuration I wanted (manual, V6, five door) after mine got totaled. I'd buy another one in a heartbeat.

8/20/2013 7:38:29 PM

Tke get your head out of your fucking ass. Two kids means twice the friends and twice the room needed for other shit. You know nothing about cars beside what other Honda rear drive fan boys post on other forums, or what you read at the Barnes and noble.

8/20/2013 9:05:39 PM

Quote :

"I dunno how you got the impression that the Kia's power numbers are optimistic"

MT data:

'11 optima: 274 hp; 15.7 sec @ 90.7 mph; 12.7 lb/hp
'11 optima: 274 hp; 15.0 sec @ 96 mph; 13 lb/hp (C&D)
'12 sonata: 274 hp; 15.4 sec @ 91.5 mph; 12.2 lb/hp

'12 camry: 268 hp; 14.2 sec @ 100.6 mph; 12.6 lb/hp
'12 passat vr6: 280 hp; 14.2 sec @ 100.9 mph; 12.6 lb/hp
'13 accord: 278 hp;14.0 sec @ 101.4 mph; 12.1 lb/hp
'13 maxima: 290 hp; 14.3 sec @ 97.7 mph; 12.2 lb/hp
'13 altima: 270 hp; 14.6 sec @ 100 mph; 12.4 lb/hp
'97 type r; 15.3 sec @ 93.4 mph; 13.3 lb/hp

8/20/2013 9:16:39 PM

just because they have terrible transmissions and final drive ratios doesnt mean they're low on power

8/21/2013 1:54:05 AM

Quote :

"Well the problem with this...is that the Accord V6 is faster than a TSX...so...yeah "

Willing to bet the TSX is still a more enjoyable drive.

8/21/2013 2:25:04 AM

both are terrible

8/21/2013 8:09:38 AM

^^But that wasn't the argument. And the Accord is significantly roomier than the TSX.

^agreed, for my purposes.

Ragged, go crawl back under your rock.

8/21/2013 8:42:45 AM

I'm no closer to deciding anything.. Any problems with a Carmax or auction direct maybe? If I get a 1-2 year old Camry or accord, they seem to have a lot. Not many private owners selling one year old cars.

I'm also kinda torn on spending all my money on like a 2009 TL or something, just because it'll be nicer

8/22/2013 12:14:35 PM

how long is your commute each day? (time not miles)

8/22/2013 12:17:31 PM